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RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 12:30:15 PM   
Tim Cady

 

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Status: offline 		I don't think it is Rivers fault. I actually was impressed with Farve early on, but he is not one of the top 3 guys in the AFC this year. I don't even hate him, the fargasms send me more then the player.

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RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 12:52:36 PM   
Guest
 Lets see exactly where Favre ranks among QB's this season in some of the statistical categories:

Passer Rating:  Favre 15th, Rodgers 8th
4th Quarter Passer Rating:  Favre 19th, Rodgers 18th
Red Zone Passer Rating:  Favre 22nd, Rodgers 3rd
Passing Yards:  Favre 12th, Rodgers 7th
Passing TD's:  Favre 8th, Rodgers 6th
Interceptions:  Favre 1st, Rodgers 6th
Yards Per Attempt:  Favre 20th, Rodgers 10th
Pass Plays of 20 yards+:  Favre 15th, Rodgers 5th

He doesn't fare well even compared to a first year starter who everybody thought sucked prior to this season.

The Jets have arguably the best OLine in the league.  They have the leading rusher in the conference.  I believe they sent 7 players to the ProBowl.  They rank 9th in Kick Returns and 7th in Punt Returns.  And as a team, they rank 7th in Yards After Catch.

I guess it only makes sense that Favre is soley responsible for everything the Jets did right, even though he hardly cracks the top ten in any QB statistical category, except interceptions of course.
  Post #: 3127
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 1:16:39 PM   
marty


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Status: offline 		The Jets have won AT Miami, Buffalo, NE and Tennesee.  The NE and Tennessee games were VERY impressive road wins.

The Packers have won AT Detroit and Seattle.  Detoit has zero wins, and Seattle has 3. 

The Packers are WORSE at running the ball because Favre is gone, and the Jets are BETTER at running the ball because Favre is there.  Getting early leads is also important for your run game, and for your defense, and for winning.

The Jets still have a HORRIBLE 2ndary, it's impressive they've won as many games as they have.  It's all about LEADERSHIP, Favre has provided that, Rogers has NOT. 

< Message edited by marty -- 12/18/2008 1:19:42 PM >
Post #: 3128
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 1:19:29 PM   
John Childress


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

People see what they want to with Favre. It's not a joke he's in the pro bowl to anyone that doesn't hate him. It's entirely expected.

I like a balance between stats and wins, frankly. I'm not all one way or the other, but I do think Philip Rivers is putting up nice stats, and leading his team for crap.


The problem with Favre in the Pro Bowl is that he is fading badly down the stretch.

Just heard a report that Peterson now leads Manning slightly in the MVP race

Followed by Big Ben

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Post #: 3129
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 1:20:21 PM   
John Childress


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete C

Lets see exactly where Favre ranks among QB's this season in some of the statistical categories:

Passer Rating:  Favre 15th, Rodgers 8th
4th Quarter Passer Rating:  Favre 19th, Rodgers 18th
Red Zone Passer Rating:  Favre 22nd, Rodgers 3rd
Passing Yards:  Favre 12th, Rodgers 7th
Passing TD's:  Favre 8th, Rodgers 6th
Interceptions:  Favre 1st, Rodgers 6th
Yards Per Attempt:  Favre 20th, Rodgers 10th
Pass Plays of 20 yards+:  Favre 15th, Rodgers 5th

He doesn't fare well even compared to a first year starter who everybody thought sucked prior to this season.

The Jets have arguably the best OLine in the league.  They have the leading rusher in the conference.  I believe they sent 7 players to the ProBowl.  They rank 9th in Kick Returns and 7th in Punt Returns.  And as a team, they rank 7th in Yards After Catch.

I guess it only makes sense that Favre is soley responsible for everything the Jets did right, even though he hardly cracks the top ten in any QB statistical category, except interceptions of course.


CASE FREAKIN CLOSED!

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Post #: 3130
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 1:21:01 PM   
marty


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Status: offline 		It's good to AD has a chance at MVP, I'm also surprised, I thought Manning would run away with it. 

Post #: 3131
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 1:26:00 PM   
marty


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Status: offline 		The Jets Oline looks better because of Favre's quicker release, and he is more decisive, and avoids the rush better.  The Packers also had one of the best OLs in the league LAST YEAR, and it was for those same reasons.

Jones is the leading rusher in the conference in large part because Favre is there, last year he didn't do so well.  Grant was a top rusher in the NFC last year, this year with Rogers is much more average. 

I see the Jets went up in YAC this year (7th), last year the Packers were #1 in YAC.  What is the common denominator ? QB Brett Favre. 

When your QB plays well, you're also more likely to send more players to the Pro Bowl. 

Case closed.
Post #: 3132
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 1:32:25 PM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

The Jets Oline looks better because of Favre's quicker release,


NO it looks better because their center Mangold has matured and they added the best guard not named Hutchinson to their Oline in the offseason.

quote:

 and he is more decisive,


Their previous quaterback...when healthy, was pretty decisive too.

quote:

 and avoids the rush better. 


Yeah...he ducks like the best of them. 

quote:

 The Packers also had one of the best OLs in the league LAST YEAR, and it was for those same reasons.


They by all experts accounts, played way above their heads last year.  Is Favre PART of the equation?  maybe, but he isn't be biggest factor here.

quote:

Jones is the leading rusher in the conference in large part because Favre is there, last year he didn't do so well.


Once again, they added Alan Faneca. 

quote:

  Grant was a top rusher in the NFC last year, this year with Rogers is much more average. 


Grant surprised people last year and coaches spent all offseason finding ways to shut his average ass down...  Oh, gee golly, look what happened.

quote:

I see the Jets went up in YAC this year (7th), last year the Packers were #1 in YAC.  What is the common denominator ?


Good receivers...
quote:

 
QB Brett Favre. 


Not as big a factor in that as you think.

quote:

When your QB plays well, you're also more likely to send more players to the Pro Bowl. 


Yeah that explains the defensive players going...

quote:

Case closed.


Thank the lord.  It was such a weak case to begin with...glad you finally closed it.

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Post #: 3133
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 2:09:22 PM   
djskillz


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Status: offline 		Well done guys, especially Pete.

The unfounded accolades for Favre need to stop.  OL play is HUGE, and THAT has been the biggest difference in the Jets this year.  That tends to happen when you get the 2nd best guard on the planet and have 2 other 1st rd picks continue to develop.

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Post #: 3134
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 2:22:06 PM   
Easy E

 

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Status: offline 		Alan Faneca is as good a run blocker as Hutchinson, and he is the best pass blocking guard in the league. Who is better than him?
.
Post #: 3135
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 2:23:08 PM   
djskillz


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Status: offline 		I'd put him slightly behind Hutch overall, but it's close.

Splitting hairs though; they're both great.

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Post #: 3136
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 2:31:25 PM   
Easy E

 

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Status: offline 		Hutchinson is not a good pass blocking guard. He's not complete, he's dominant against the run, but there are many better pass blocking guards.

Faneca is, IMO, easily the best in the league.
Post #: 3137
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 2:45:34 PM   
djskillz


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Status: offline 		It's splitting hairs.  They're both great, IMO.

For what it's worth, the scouts have Hutch as easily the best guard in the league, with a 91 rating.  The next closest they have has an 84 rating.  That's a HUGE gap.  Alan Faneca, they have listed at #7, with a rating of 82. 

I agree that they're the 2 best in my personal opinion though.

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Post #: 3138
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 2:49:02 PM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

It's splitting hairs.  They're both great, IMO.

For what it's worth, the scouts have Hutch as easily the best guard in the league, with a 91 rating.  The next closest they have has an 84 rating.  That's a HUGE gap.  Alan Faneca, they have listed at #7, with a rating of 82. 

I agree that they're the 2 best in my personal opinion though.


Faneca is probably a better all around Guard, while Hutch is totally dominant against the run and only moderately good in the pass game... 

They're the two best in football to me. 

And Faneca's addition to the Oline in New York and departure from Pittsburgh is showing more than Favre's move has.  Roethlisberger is getting pounded to death this year...and the Steeler's running game isn't doing so hot either (partially because they have had a lot of injuries to the RBs but still).

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Post #: 3139
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 3:16:54 PM   
Trekgeekscott


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Status: offline 		Rest in Peace Sammy Baugh

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/12/17/baugh.obit.ap/index.html

The last surviving member of the inaugural Hall of Fame class.

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Post #: 3140
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 4:27:28 PM   
Lynn G.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty
 

I see the Jets went up in YAC this year (7th), last year the Packers were #1 in YAC.  What is the common denominator ? QB Brett Favre. 
 



I'm too lazy to look it up, but I'll bet the Jets got more "roughing the passer" calls than they ever have before. No one draws that call for the smallest of bumps like Bert Fibber.

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Post #: 3141
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 4:35:38 PM   
John Childress


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

Hutchinson is not a good pass blocking guard. He's not complete, he's dominant against the run, but there are many better pass blocking guards.

Faneca is, IMO, easily the best in the league.


Not even close

Hutch is not a great pass blocker

Faneca is much better overall

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Post #: 3142
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 7:49:25 PM   
John Childress


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Status: offline 		The Jags are really bringing it to the Colts tonight

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Post #: 3143
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 9:07:53 PM   
djskillz


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Status: offline 		The Jags' collapse this year is the single biggest shocking development of this NFL season for me.

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Post #: 3144
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 9:10:20 PM   
John Childress


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

The Jags' collapse this year is the single biggest shocking development of this NFL season for me.


I don't know, they were real weak at WR and added Troy Williamson

They were strong the defensive line until they let Stroud walk

Add to that no more sneaking up on people

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Post #: 3145
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 9:10:33 PM   
marty


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Status: offline 		I don't think you'd be having this G comparison with Faneca and Hutchinson if Favre had stayed in GB and Pennington was still in NY.

I think part of Favre going to NY gave the team a spark and gave the players confidence they could beat anybody.  IMO, IF Pennington stayed there, they would now be 3-10, trying to figure out what to do next year, as the FAs they got had played well, but they were still losing close games.  

The Packers would be 9-5 with Favre, their defense the highest scoring defense in the league, Grant would be running like he did last year, the GB WRs would lead the league in YAC, Jennings would be the highest scoring WR in the league and Jordy Nelson would also be productive, he Driver catching many 3rd downs.  And we would be complaining how Favre still seems to get all the calls.   

---------------------------------------------

One thing I remember Favre doing several times last year, that I have NOT seen from Rogers is him waving a towel and cheering on the defense late in games.  Rogers doesn't seem to have the magnetic personality, and although intelligent, sometimes seems to have a little arrogance.   

I also remember one game last year, where right before the defense went out in the 4th quarter, Favre patted AJ Hawk on the behind.  Hawk didn't get the pick or sack, but on that drive, Hawk blitzed and was the reason for a forced throw where Nick Collins made a pick, which sealed the game for the Pack.  Maybe if Rogers patted a players behind, the Pack might have gotten a defensive stop instead of giving up the winning TD ?  Who knows ???

I am more privy to this than most of you, because I watched every Packer game last year and this year.  MOST Packer fans I talk to agree that it was a mistake to let go of Favre when they were SO close last year, it has become painfully obvious to them, even the ones that supported the move to go to Rogers earlier in the year.

What Favre has is leadership.  When he gets into the huddle for a 4th quarter drive, the players EXPECT they will execute and win.  Rogers has NOT earned that yet.  Randall Cunningham put up great stats, but I'm not sure he brought an aura of confidence, it seemed like Moss and Carter ran the team.  Although Tarvaris played GREAT last week, I sense more leadership and confidence from Guts Frerotte in a close game.  I hope my sense is off on that one.  

< Message edited by marty -- 12/18/2008 9:16:36 PM >
Post #: 3146
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 9:21:59 PM   
djskillz


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Status: offline 		Not true, Marty.

In fact, there was a LOT of talk on these boards last offseason about dreaming of getting Faneca.  We all think VERY highly of him obviously.

Favre is just not that big of a part of the Jets' success.  It's all about their OL.

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Post #: 3147
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 9:23:04 PM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

The Jags' collapse this year is the single biggest shocking development of this NFL season for me.


I don't know, they were real weak at WR and added Troy Williamson

They were strong the defensive line until they let Stroud walk

Add to that no more sneaking up on people


I agree with the WR part, but they had that same issue last year.

The biggest shocker to me is about their toughness.  They were as tough as any team in football last year, but just didn't seem to carry it over at all.  I don't know how a team just loses that, especially when their coaching/personnel is basically the same.  That's all.

BTW, food for thought; are the Vikes now the "toughest" team in the league?  We have to be on the short list.  I'd put Tennessee and Pittsburgh in that group as well.

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
Post #: 3148
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 9:24:22 PM   
marty


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Status: offline 		I was NOT surprised by Jax falling off this year.  I think they were a bit of a fluke last year, added nothing in FA, and I still think Del Rio is like Tice.  A nice guy with lunch bucket toughness,  but will probably be outfoxed in a playoff game. 

I was more surprised by the falls of Cleveland and Seattle, the continued success of the Giants, and the rise of Miami and Arizona, and I thought Buffalo and Houston might be a little better. 
Post #: 3149
RE: NFL News - 12/18/2008 9:27:22 PM   
djskillz


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Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		That's true actually on Miami.  They obviously are a HUGE shocker.

Atlanta as well, to do what they're doing this fast, especially Ryan.

I wasn't that surprised by any of the others.  Though I still think the Giants aren't that great.  I did think Houston would take another step forward.

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Post #: 3150
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