quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

That's true actually on Miami.  They obviously are a HUGE shocker.

Atlanta as well, to do what they're doing this fast, especially Ryan.

I wasn't that surprised by any of the others.  Though I still think the Giants aren't that great.  I did think Houston would take another step forward.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete C

On a personal level, I'm not a big fan of the Manning's (all 3 of 'em) but is there any question that Peyton Manning isn't one of the best QB's you ever saw play?   Of course he's not as good as Favre, but who is?

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete C

On a personal level, I'm not a big fan of the Manning's (all 3 of 'em) but is there any question that Peyton Manning isn't one of the best QB's you ever saw play?   Of course he's not as good as Favre, but who is?

You could even say he has taken his game to another level this year.

I don't like him one bit but man!

If Peterson leads us to victory the last 2 weeks he has to win.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete C

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete C

On a personal level, I'm not a big fan of the Manning's (all 3 of 'em) but is there any question that Peyton Manning isn't one of the best QB's you ever saw play?   Of course he's not as good as Favre, but who is?

You could even say he has taken his game to another level this year.

I don't like him one bit but man!

If Peterson leads us to victory the last 2 weeks he has to win.

******************************
P.Manning is one of those guys I do not like, but I sure like watching him play.  Kinda' like Sweetness, I obviously hated the Bears, but how could you not appreciate someone who had mastered the game like he did?

People talk about there not being many good QB's in the league, but look at the ones that are good.  Marino was great in his day but was he as good as Manning or Brady?  Montana is timeless, IMO, but todays great QB's are pretty amazing to watch. 

Manning put on a clinic tonight and if I were a young QB, I'd be watching everything he does.  Hell, that's how I learned to play basketball, I watched Andrew Toney.  His first step I couldn't match, but my perimeter game was close.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I was NOT surprised by Jax falling off this year.  I think they were a bit of a fluke last year, added nothing in FA, and I still think Del Rio is like Tice.  A nice guy with lunch bucket toughness,  but will probably be outfoxed in a playoff game. 

I was more surprised by the falls of Cleveland and Seattle, the continued success of the Giants, and the rise of Miami and Arizona, and I thought Buffalo and Houston might be a little better. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete C

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete C

On a personal level, I'm not a big fan of the Manning's (all 3 of 'em) but is there any question that Peyton Manning isn't one of the best QB's you ever saw play?   Of course he's not as good as Favre, but who is?

You could even say he has taken his game to another level this year.

I don't like him one bit but man!

If Peterson leads us to victory the last 2 weeks he has to win.

******************************
P.Manning is one of those guys I do not like, but I sure like watching him play.  Kinda' like Sweetness, I obviously hated the Bears, but how could you not appreciate someone who had mastered the game like he did?

People talk about there not being many good QB's in the league, but look at the ones that are good.  Marino was great in his day but was he as good as Manning or Brady?  Montana is timeless, IMO, but todays great QB's are pretty amazing to watch. 

Manning put on a clinic tonight and if I were a young QB, I'd be watching everything he does.  Hell, that's how I learned to play basketball, I watched Andrew Toney.  His first step I couldn't match, but my perimeter game was close.

I always thought Marino was overrated.  Yes, he had a cannon arm and lightning quick release.  He also put up great numbers.  But I think his poor attitude yelling at his players hurt him and his team in tight situations.  I see Warner as a poor man's Marino but who played on a team with superior talent and was able to get over the hump once.

The one reason I elevate Montana over Manning is the way Joe elevated his game in the playoffs.  Montana's rating went up in the playoffs while Peyton's falls 10 full points.  I thought Brady had a chance to eclipse Montana but he really sucked last Super Bowl and I honestly believe it was ego.  He appeared to me to purposely go away from Moss until he thought he might lose the game.  Montana never did that; he knew where his bread was buttered.

I just heard that Dungy just set a NFL record by being the first coach to make the playoffs 10 straight years - good job!

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

I don't think Marino had the best mentality to be great in the clutch.  He was too high strung.  I actually think Peyton had a little too much ego also and that has hurt him at times.  I think a lot of his histronics are more of a distraction than a help.  He gets too emotional in playoff games though he has gotten better.

Another thing Montana and Brady had in common was both were real cool under pressure.  I think that is why they are better than Manning and Marino in the clutch.

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Not true, Marty.

In fact, there was a LOT of talk on these boards last offseason about dreaming of getting Faneca.  We all think VERY highly of him obviously.

Favre is just not that big of a part of the Jets' success.  It's all about their OL.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Not true, Marty.

In fact, there was a LOT of talk on these boards last offseason about dreaming of getting Faneca.  We all think VERY highly of him obviously.

Favre is just not that big of a part of the Jets' success.  It's all about their OL.

You did talk about it a lot, that's true.

There was .00001 chance that the Vikes were going to move Hutchinson to RG to make room for Faneca though.

It always happens when you take an opposing side, but I'm not saying Favre is the only reason for their success. I just think this "he has very little to do with it" is utterly ridiculous and revisionist history. No one, including you, was talking about the Jets making the playoffs because of all this "star" talent they added. And really, they didn't. They added one great guard. Well, we have Hutchinson, and we hadn't been to the playoffs. They added Kris Jenkins, who was washed up, and frankly has faded lately. Well, we have 2 guys better than him and still missed the playoffs. And they have average at best skill positions. Thomas Jones is ok, but not tops, Coles and Cotchery, same thing.

People come across as simply Favre haters when you try to give him zero credits. That said, I hope he lays an egg the last two games and you all can make me eat crow.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

Right, I know, the biggest reason is Alan Faneca. It could have been any QB and they'd have made the playoffs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

Right, I know, the biggest reason is Alan Faneca. It could have been any QB and they'd have made the playoffs.

If they would have kept Pennington, they would have IMHO, with one caveat...If Tom Brady doesn't get hurt...the Jets don't make the playoffs no matter who is at QB.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

Right, I know, the biggest reason is Alan Faneca. It could have been any QB and they'd have made the playoffs.

If they would have kept Pennington, they would have IMHO, with one caveat...If Tom Brady doesn't get hurt...the Jets don't make the playoffs no matter who is at QB.

Right, I got it. The same pathetic offense that had Pennington and Clemons last year, with the same receivers, same running back, adding no one but Alan Faneca would go from a horrible ranked offense and winning four games to being one of the top scoring offenses and winning at least 9 games (splitting with the Patriots).

It isn't that I don't understand the argument, I just feel that it comes from a place of illogical Favre hatred. But, as you've stated with Marty, it's probably pointless to keep talking about it. In this scenario, it makes no difference if the Jets lose the next 2 games and sit out the playoffs, or go on to win it. Favre will not be a factor either way.

We should 100% absolutely, positively sign Alan Faneca even if he costs $100 million dollars. We would win at a minimum 3 rings.

quote:

I just think this "he has very little to do with it" is utterly ridiculous and revisionist history. No one, including you, was talking about the Jets making the playoffs because of all this "star" talent they added. And really, they didn't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

Simple Jets history of the past few year, prior to this season...when Pennington was healthy...they were better.  The problem has been, he hasn't been healthy.