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RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 1:50:31 AM   
Lynn G.


Posts: 33034
Joined: 7/15/2007
Status: offline 		I'm giving you the last word David.
Post #: 426
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 2:07:56 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40598
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		[quote="Duane Sampson"]
quote:

Iron man Brett Favre didn’t have any ill effects Monday from a hit to the head he took in the Packers’ 34-0 win over Minnesota on Sunday. “(The medical staff) said he checked out fine. He’s not even on the medical list,” coach Mike McCarthy said. Favre was dazed by a shot to the back of the helmet from Vikings DE Kenechi Udeze late in the third quarter. Udeze drew a 15-yard penalty for the unintentional hit just as Favre slid to the turf on a scramble. “It was legit,” Favre said of the contact he absorbed. “I had people say, ‘Man, good job baiting them into the call.’ I can find better ways to draw the call." “I don’t want to say it was a concussion or anything; I’m not a doctor. But I was a little woozy. I was well aware of what was going on, but I was a little light on the foot. That’s the best way I can explain it.” Favre stayed in the game and went on to throw two of his three touchdown passes before being relieved by Aaron Rodgers for the first time this season in the final minutes of the rout.
What a crock. I've been hit harder than that by falling leaves. Favre's so full of himself it's sickening. "I'm not a doctor...." but you know your prescriptions, don't you, hillbilly boy? Nice Sammy. Can we get a pic of the play in question and put it up beside Al Harris' weak ass dive at AD's knees? I had people say, Man, good job baiting them into the call People? As in all your teammates who were right there to see that it was a weak call?
Post #: 427
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 2:09:41 AM   
Lane Meyer


Posts: 91
Joined: 11/8/2007
From: Section 129
Status: offline 		[quote="Lynn G."]Lane, Okay, I'll go back to Lambeau a couple more times and see if the seats get any more comfortable and the expensive suites get a little closer to the field. Those were my observations of the relative merits of the stadium itself. I'm not arguing with history - a lot of famous people have played there no doubt. Other than that - one of my favorite people in the whole world is a Packer fan (my husband), so I clearly think they've got some good ones in their midst. :viking:[/quote] I really hope you do find your way back and the fact that a couple of Packer fans rose to the occasion and attempted to come to your defense is part of the Packer experience with which I am most familiar. I would hope that the actions of those gentlemen would shine a favorable light on the Pack fans. I love the team and all it represents so much that I genuinely wish to share this gem with the rest of the football fans in the world. Have to wipe away a tear, excuse me. :D I make a point of asking fans of other teams what level treatment they receive in my favorite stadium. I've had no more than three in 36 years tell me they would not come back. That says to me that the tenor of fan behavior, generally speaking, is on the positive side of the ledger. My original query is still in play though Lynn. Do you really believe Packer fans are more accepting of racism? Your post really seemed to strongly suggest this and it was this that prompted me to post.
Post #: 428
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 2:23:59 AM   
Lane Meyer


Posts: 91
Joined: 11/8/2007
From: Section 129
Status: offline 		[quote="Pete C Not that it matters but can you name another team that has less people of color in attendance? Seriously, I've been to 11 different NFL venues, including Lambeau, and nothing compares. There's more color at a KKK rally. Now this isn't a poke at Packer fans, just an observation. It's geography, go north of Milwaukee and the rest of the state is very white.[/quote] It would be pretty hard to show, with any accuracy, what the racial makeup is at any stadium IMHO. YOu show me facts backing up that statement and I'll believe. Yes, Wisconsin is predominantly white, but both Milwaukee and Madison have substantial Hispanic and African American populations. The Packers have as big a following nationally as just about any team (take a look in the stands at a Packer away game) and to believe that the fans filling the stadium are only from Wisconsin would be a fallacy. While it may not be a poke at Packer fans, I still don't think the premise holds water to any reasonable degree.
Post #: 429
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 2:33:28 AM   
Lane Meyer


Posts: 91
Joined: 11/8/2007
From: Section 129
Status: offline 		[quote="Todd Mallett"][quote="Duane Sampson"]
quote:

Iron man Brett Favre didn’t have any ill effects Monday from a hit to the head he took in the Packers’ 34-0 win over Minnesota on Sunday. “(The medical staff) said he checked out fine. He’s not even on the medical list,” coach Mike McCarthy said. Favre was dazed by a shot to the back of the helmet from Vikings DE Kenechi Udeze late in the third quarter. Udeze drew a 15-yard penalty for the unintentional hit just as Favre slid to the turf on a scramble. “It was legit,” Favre said of the contact he absorbed. “I had people say, ‘Man, good job baiting them into the call.’ I can find better ways to draw the call." “I don’t want to say it was a concussion or anything; I’m not a doctor. But I was a little woozy. I was well aware of what was going on, but I was a little light on the foot. That’s the best way I can explain it.” Favre stayed in the game and went on to throw two of his three touchdown passes before being relieved by Aaron Rodgers for the first time this season in the final minutes of the rout.
What a crock. I've been hit harder than that by falling leaves. Favre's so full of himself it's sickening. "I'm not a doctor...." but you know your prescriptions, don't you, hillbilly boy? Nice Sammy. Can we get a pic of the play in question and put it up beside Al Harris' weak ass dive at AD's knees? I had people say, Man, good job baiting them into the call People? As in all your teammates who were right there to see that it was a weak call? Wow, ripping on a guy's addiction? And you're the site admin? Maybe you're correct, and Favre was faking it. His play would seem to indicate that you are right. Does it matter at all that AD stated very clearly that the hit was clean? Smaller players routinely dive at larger players lower body to attempt to tackle. You guys are jousting at windmills.
Post #: 430
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 2:41:48 AM   
Duane Sampson


Posts: 14200
Status: offline 		[quote="Lane Meyer"] Wow, ripping on a guy's addiction? And you're the site admin? [/quote] As a site admin, I attempt to curb attacks against other posters, regardless of their opinions. If you want to hold Mr. Favre in such high esteem as to ignore his shortcomings, have at it. My "duty" here is to allow all opinions to be stated and watch that it doesn't become personal. I also have opinions and will state them. Your option is to click the little "x" at the top of your browser and your pain will ease.......
Post #: 431
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 2:46:20 AM   
Lane Meyer


Posts: 91
Joined: 11/8/2007
From: Section 129
Status: offline 		[quote="Duane Sampson"][quote="Lane Meyer"] Wow, ripping on a guy's addiction? And you're the site admin? [/quote] As a site admin, I attempt to curb attacks against other posters, regardless of their opinions. If you want to hold Mr. Favre in such high esteem as to ignore his shortcomings, have at it. My "duty" here is to allow all opinions to be stated and watch that it doesn't become personal. I also have opinions and will state them. Your option is to click the little "x" at the top of your browser and your pain will ease.......[/quote] No pain here friend. I don't know if my post contained enough info for you to discern that I ignore his shortcomings. Sorry if I've offended. In my experience, the admin usually doesn't lead the way on the road to silly, juvenile posting.
Post #: 432
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 2:49:53 AM   
Duane Sampson


Posts: 14200
Status: offline 		You're entitled to your opinion, Lane. You've come to the right site to have that privilege. Carry on...
Post #: 433
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 2:58:48 AM   
Lane Meyer


Posts: 91
Joined: 11/8/2007
From: Section 129
Status: offline 		No worries. Why is the Harris hit considered anything less than both legal and effective in bringing AD to the ground? HIs injury really stinks, but why would Harris try to injure the young man? Nothing in Harris' history would suggest he wants to be Jack Tatum's heir apparent.
Post #: 434
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 3:02:34 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40598
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		[quote="Duane Sampson"]You're entitled to your opinion, Lane. You've come to the right site to have that privilege. Carry on...[/quote] I like having a Packers thread and Packer posters and hope it continues. It's not going to be easy but as long as it's just players and coaches that are being ripped on and not posters it can be good.
Post #: 435
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 3:05:19 AM   
Duane Sampson


Posts: 14200
Status: offline 		Personally, I don't think Harris tried to hurt AD. But I do understand why some people here see that way. We're Vikings fans and we just suffered a thumping by a rival. I'm proud of these Vikings fans for not making this site a "juvenile" garbage zone like a lot of sites are. If they attack you, Lane, I've got your back. If they sail into your opinions, you're on your own.
Post #: 436
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 3:07:24 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40598
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		[quote="Lane Meyer"]No worries. Why is the Harris hit considered anything less than both legal and effective in bringing AD to the ground? HIs injury really stinks, but why would Harris try to injure the young man? Nothing in Harris' history would suggest he wants to be Jack Tatum's heir apparent.[/quote] There still needs to be accountability amount players. No projecting yourself like a missile at a guy’s knees period. Just because it's legal doesn't mean its right. They obviously need to address this. Horse collars weren't illegal a little while ago either.
Post #: 437
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 3:18:16 AM   
Lane Meyer


Posts: 91
Joined: 11/8/2007
From: Section 129
Status: offline 		Genuinely and sincerely appreciate the sentiments folks. I'm always looking for a place to discuss with vigor and respect. I was at the game and believe me, when everyone around me saw Peterson down, no one except the largest of buffoons among us was glad to see it. I understand players having accountability Todd, I just don't think that a guy like AD, with his talent, affords defenders much in the way of aiming your shot, if you will. He is so good that you go after whatever you can to get him to the ground, because if you miss, he's long gone. Glad to hear it wasn't more serious, I was stoked just to see the guy in person.
Post #: 438
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 3:20:13 AM   
David Moufang

 

Posts: 1177
Joined: 7/29/2007
From: Columbia Crest
Status: offline 		[quote="Lane Meyer"]No worries. Why is the Harris hit considered anything less than both legal and effective in bringing AD to the ground? HIs injury really stinks, but why would Harris try to injure the young man? Nothing in Harris' history would suggest he wants to be Jack Tatum's heir apparent.[/quote] Maybe he's Charlie Martin's heir apparent :p
Post #: 439
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 3:29:02 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40598
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		[quote="Lane Meyer"]Genuinely and sincerely appreciate the sentiments folks. I'm always looking for a place to discuss with vigor and respect. I was at the game and believe me, when everyone around me saw Peterson down, no one except the largest of buffoons among us was glad to see it. I understand players having accountability Todd, I just don't think that a guy like AD, with his talent, affords defenders much in the way of aiming your shot, if you will. He is so good that you go after whatever you can to get him to the ground, because if you miss, he's long gone. Glad to hear it wasn't more serious, I was stoked just to see the guy in person.[/quote] I respect your POV on this and thanks for the AD props. :beer: but it's too bad Winfield couldn't be witnessed tackling AD. He'd prove you don't have to be a heads down missile to get the job done.
Post #: 440
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 3:37:46 AM   
Duane Sampson


Posts: 14200
Status: offline 		You know, I really think a fan's rivalry has more to do with opposing fans than players. Everyone has a team they "hate' and it usually has to do with their personal experience. I've actually felt at times that Favre gets a raw deal because of the media hype. But he has played it up at times like the statements I posted above. I know guys that "hate" the Cowboys or the Steelers or whatever. But it's a fan in their face more than anything, IMO. The worst fans I've ever met are Bears fans. Are all Chicago fans like that? No. But in my little corner, it sucks. If Lynn gets a bad taste from the group around her at the Packers game, do you blame her? I also know a few Vikings fans that I wouldn't count in my group, but you have that. I don't post on rival sites because I expect attacks because we root for different teams. Silly, but it's sports and that's what it really is, entertainment. "You don't have a SB win" does bother me but then.... the last time I suited up was in high school. Get over it, I say to myself. :cool:
Post #: 441
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 3:57:33 AM   
David Moufang

 

Posts: 1177
Joined: 7/29/2007
From: Columbia Crest
Status: offline 		[quote="Duane Sampson"]"You don't have a SB win" does bother me but then.... the last time I suited up was in high school. Get over it, I say to myself. :cool:[/quote] Well, like I was saying in another post, a regularly competitive team may be even better. Postseason appearances in 53% of the years is pretty damn good. Maybe there are teams with higher marks, but probably not many. Consider the Lions, for example. They've never BEEN to the Super Bowl. Their last championship was in 1957. That's gotta be depressing.
Post #: 442
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 4:02:58 AM   
Lane Meyer


Posts: 91
Joined: 11/8/2007
From: Section 129
Status: offline 		Sammy, your honesty is pretty cool sir. The insights regarding rivalries being more fan to fan driven are dead on, and it becomes more that way every year. Unfortunately, it is the idiotic behavior that ends up coloring most of one's attendance at the opposing teams place. I truly despise that fact. Still, a fact @ Lambeau and everywhere else. I generally seek out opposing team's boards to discuss the Pack because I enjoy hearing the "other side" and I like a good argument frankly. I draw the line at the personal foolishness and most of the time I'm alright on such boards. Admins such as yourself that encourage debate and support the reasonable posters seem to be the answer. I understand the no title thing gets folks worked up, I'll endeavor to leave it alone. I meant Lynn no harm and intended no offense, and that goes for the rest of the Vike's fans. It IS silly, at the end of the day. The lessons that sports and my fandom have taught me are most certainly not however. One of those is to say thanks for allowing me to have my say.
Post #: 443
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 4:36:45 AM   
Guest
 I don't understand how some people can call it (the hit by Harris) a cheap shot yet it was perfectly legal. Kind of a contradiction, no? Look, players today have far different attitudes toward their opponents than the players of years ago. Today the players are paid huge salaries and bonuses. Years ago some players worked a "real" job in the off season. Todays players (opponents, especially) have more of a brotherhood, if you will, then ever before. 99+% of the players would never intentionally attempt to end the career of another player. The vast majority of players today (Dwight Smith excluded) love the game and would never intentionally attempt to end the career of a fellow player.
  Post #: 444
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 4:44:55 AM   
Guest
 [quote="Lane Meyer"][quote="Pete C Not that it matters but can you name another team that has less people of color in attendance? Seriously, I've been to 11 different NFL venues, including Lambeau, and nothing compares. There's more color at a KKK rally. Now this isn't a poke at Packer fans, just an observation. It's geography, go north of Milwaukee and the rest of the state is very white.[/quote] It would be pretty hard to show, with any accuracy, what the racial makeup is at any stadium IMHO. YOu show me facts backing up that statement and I'll believe. Yes, Wisconsin is predominantly white, but both Milwaukee and Madison have substantial Hispanic and African American populations. The Packers have as big a following nationally as just about any team (take a look in the stands at a Packer away game) and to believe that the fans filling the stadium are only from Wisconsin would be a fallacy. While it may not be a poke at Packer fans, I still don't think the premise holds water to any reasonable degree.[/quote] *********************************************************************** Lane, it was just a personal observation based on my experience but now I'm interested in seeing if any facts are available on the matter. Perhaps demographics of season ticket holders? I'm going to see what I can find. I do recall a more diverse crowd at the old County Stadium games though.
  Post #: 445
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 4:54:01 AM   
Lane Meyer


Posts: 91
Joined: 11/8/2007
From: Section 129
Status: offline 		I'd agree entirely that County probably had a crowd far more diverse. I'm a Milwaukee guy so it was kind of nice to go to a stadium only 5 minutes from home.
Post #: 446
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 6:22:16 AM   
Lynn G.


Posts: 33034
Joined: 7/15/2007
Status: offline 		[quote="Lane Meyer"] My original query is still in play though Lynn. Do you really believe Packer fans are more accepting of racism? Your post really seemed to strongly suggest this and it was this that prompted me to post.[/quote] Sorry it's taken me a while to get back on this. I've been out saving the world. :D To tell you the truth, my comment had two dimensions to it. First - it was truly a legitimate observation. I really didn't see any people of color in that sampling I described. But I honestly would probably not have even thought to look for that if the first incident hadn't happened - and that was the racial heckling (too nice of a word actually) that Randy Moss received from the fans at Lambeau. It still absolutely burns me up when I think about it. According to Chris Collinsworth (I think it was) who reported on it - it went on the entire time that the teams were on the field during warm-ups. As you know, the lower rows at Lambeau are quite close to the field, and it was a barrage of racial slurs shouted to him from a very close distance. I can't help that I felt such anger when I heard about that. If you remember it was the same night as the fake moon, and when Randy did that during the game I was really ticked at him for taking what should have been a great moment (the touchdown) and turning it trashy. But when I heard later about the racial slurs my opinion completely changed and I applauded Randy for giving it right back tenfold. So with that in fairly recent history, my first time back at Lambeau I kind of had it in the back of my mind to pay attention to that - hence my observation. I probably wouldn't have even noticed had it not been for the vulgar display from a couple of years before. Are Packer fans more accepting of racism? I don't know, but my small exposure gave me a sour taste.
Post #: 447
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 6:31:58 AM   
David Moufang

 

Posts: 1177
Joined: 7/29/2007
From: Columbia Crest
Status: offline 		[quote="Lynn G."]Are Packer fans more accepting of racism? I don't know, but my small exposure gave me a sour taste.[/quote] The thing is, MOST players in the NFL (Packers included) are black. So I don't get the racism. Shout a racial slur at a Vikings player and you might as well do the same to the Packers. Of all the vulgar things to utter at a football game, not only should racism not be tolerated, it's simply inexplicable. Why even watch football if you're that racist? Greg Jennings is a good receiver. Adrian Peterson is a good running back. Complain about Moss being a thug, but don't get on him because of his race. That's just ignant.
Post #: 448
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 6:39:55 AM   
Lynn G.


Posts: 33034
Joined: 7/15/2007
Status: offline 		Here's my deal. It's going to sound completely naive', but up until about six years ago, I was almost completely unaware of the whole NOTION of angry rivalries between fans of competing teams. I grew up in a house with a dad who was a rabid Viking fan, but who just never apparently got into the rivalry stuff. I never heard negative crap about other teams (except just in the context of wanting to beat them on any given day) and never, ever heard a slam about other team's fans. In my mind, Wisconsin was the neighboring state and the Packers were the neighboring team, and if the Vikings were ever out of it or playing badly, I had no trouble rooting for the Packers as a second favorite team. That was why, when I got the invitation from a Packer fan, I happily signed up on a Packer board and started participating in friendly conversations. There were a couple right away that were pretty cold, but I didn't think much of it and I spent the first year or so cultivating honest-to-goodness friendships. I even became the organizer of a number of offline gatherings because we were all having fun and posting online, and it just seemed to make sense to get together in person the way I had already been doing for years with my Strib friends. One of those offline gatherings is where I met my future husband - so I have no regrets about the experience over there, but what I found was that little by little, one by one, the people on that board were starting to turn. When I look back, it gained momentum when the Packers were doing badly (i.e. the 4-12 season a couple of years ago), but I tried really hard not to fan any flames. For example, when the Vikings beat the Packers, I literally would not post for several days or a week because I was cognizant of the sensitivities of the fans. In a nutshell, things got really, really ugly over there and even my friends (several of whom had attended our wedding) turned on me. For quite a while I had been reading and essentially ignoring all of the "Viking fans are fairweather fans" kind of comments and all of the slams on my team, my coaches, my stadium, my fellow fans... And I started giving it back. I would say for the first two years on that board I maintained a "high road" attitude and pretty much just ignored the insults, but at some point I started returning volleys - and once that happened it was over. People who had thought I was a person who they could walk all over found out that I had a limit. And you can only take so many chants of "we're better fans than Viking fans" before you stand up and start blackening eyes. The end result is that I went from being a very naive' fan and from thinking we're all the same inside - to thinking that Packer fans were the most insecure, mean-spirited, arrogant and full of BS fans on the planet. How's that for a swing? I stopped participating in that board well over a year ago, but the hangover exists. I obviously know many exceptions to the stereotype I had developed, but I find myself looking for those traits because I'm still so ticked at everything that happened. For the record, my husband stopped participating in that board before I did because of the spiteful, anger-filled kind of posts. And also for the record, when we parked blocks from Lambeau field with our Minnesota-plated car - he put a Packer hat in the rear window to let it be known that it was a Packer car - because he "didn't feel too confident that his brethren would leave the car alone." Anyway - maybe I need to go to therapy to undo the damage from that board. :D I DID say to the Packer fans around me on Sunday that I didn't assume that "the jerk" was representative of all Packer fans. They said he was an asshole too.
Post #: 449
RE:The Packers - 11/14/2007 6:41:50 AM   
Guest
 [quote="David Moufang"][quote="Lynn G."]Are Packer fans more accepting of racism? I don't know, but my small exposure gave me a sour taste.[/quote] The thing is, MOST players in the NFL (Packers included) are black. So I don't get the racism. Shout a racial slur at a Vikings player and you might as well do the same to the Packers. Of all the vulgar things to utter at a football game, not only should racism not be tolerated, it's simply inexplicable. Why even watch football if you're that racist? Greg Jennings is a good receiver. Adrian Peterson is a good running back. Complain about Moss being a thug, but don't get on him because of his race. That's just ignant.[/quote] ***************************************************** Your message in general is good, and Greg Jennings IS a good WR, but putting him in the same post as Moss and Peterson is just not right.
  Post #: 450
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