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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 4:56:20 PM

Black 47

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I was a big Arcia fan when he first came up, but it looks to me like he has regressed. He is stubborn and doesn't listen to coaches. I have seen a lot of million dollar talents done in by 10 cent heads.

But even the ten cent heads can still figure it out. And this streak he's on right now........... maybe the pieces are starting to come together for him. Don't give up on him yet. DH can help him stay healthy too.

Post #: 3651

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 5:01:24 PM

djskillz

Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I would part with Arcia before Vargas. They have the same defensive skill set and at least Vargas plays a position that is more forgiving of the defensively challenged. Arcia in reality is as much a DH as Vargas.

Maybe. But Vargas really isn't even a 1b. Maybe for a year or two, like Ortiz. But that's it. He's really bad even at 1b.

Arcia also has a much better minor league track record than Vargas, has had more major league success, and is younger by a year. Ultimately I guess you trade the guy with the higher trade value first. Both will ultimately probably need to go.

They are both dropping farther down the list of prospects as time goes on. I think Vargas is at least serviceable as a backup 1B. Arcia is just flat out a a train wreck in the OF. The age difference is insignificant. There is like 9 months between them.

I would be trying Arcia at 1b a bit to see if he can do anything there. He at least has more athleticism than Vargas, which obviously isn't saying much.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 3652

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 5:02:14 PM

djskillz

Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Black 47

OF Buxton
OF Rosario
OF Kepler
DH Arcia
1B Mauer
2B Dozier
SS Polanco
3B Sano
C John Doe

WICKED GOOD

And wicked awful defensively. Sano and Polanco on the left side? No bueno. If any fan base should understand the importance of defense right now, especially after the last few years, and watching KC, it should be us.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 3653

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 5:18:57 PM

Black 47

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Joined: 1/18/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Black 47

OF Buxton
OF Rosario
OF Kepler
DH Arcia
1B Mauer
2B Dozier
SS Polanco
3B Sano
C John Doe

WICKED GOOD

And wicked awful defensively. Sano and Polanco on the left side? No bueno. If any fan base should understand the importance of defense right now, especially after the last few years, and watching KC, it should be us.

Can't have everything. I'll sacrifice a little defense for offense. I trust Polanco will continue to improve defensively too.

I don't hate Plouffe. He's a good ballplayer. But there's thoroughbred after thoroughbred coming up, and I don't want to make a kid with potential weight issues (Sano) a DH. I got no problem with Sano at 3rd base until Mauer's contract runs out. Would be sad to see plouffe go. He's an important part of the team chemistry. But I'm thinking his time is up after this year. I don't see the Twins keeping him. Especially if they can get quality in return.

Post #: 3654

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 5:22:35 PM

djskillz

Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
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1) Wait until you see Sano play 3b a bit more. It'll be sporadic because Molly knows what he's doing, but...
2) How does that make sense? You think he's somehow going to gain less weight because he's playing 3b instead of DH? I don't see what one has to do with the other.
3) Defense still matters. A lot. Again, the Twins should know that as much as anyone after the last several years. There's no reason to sacrifice defense unnecessarily. Any minimal gains on offense would be offset on defense.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 3655

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 5:27:57 PM

Black 47

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Time will tell. Maybe I'll end up looking like an idiot on this one. Wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last time. I just have a hard time believing Sano could be that awful, and that he's completely incapable of making himself into an adequate 3rd baseman.

Post #: 3656

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 5:31:37 PM

djskillz

Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Black 47

Time will tell. Maybe I'll end up looking like an idiot on this one. Wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last time. I just have a hard time believing Sano could be that awful, and that he's completely incapable of making himself into an adequate 3rd baseman.

Why do you think that? He has been a 3b for years now, and he's ALWAYS been awful. Do you not think he's been working on it previously? And again, he's only going to get bigger and less mobile over time.

My biggest issue with it is people that haven't seen him play 3b commenting on it. If you've seen him play a bunch there and have that opinion, you'd be in a very small minority, but I'd like to have that conversation. If you haven't seen him play at all there (or 1-2 games) then I don't get how you can have the strong opinion you do. He's had 15 errors in half a season at AA this year. Again, after playing there for many, many years. And errors don't even tell the story of how bad he's been.

I guess I just don't get the "faith" that he can play 3b. Based on what? Has he had bad coaching all this time? And is he going to get better coaching at it now? Is he going to work harder than he has as a professional for 6 years? Is he somehow going to lose a ton of weight all of a sudden by the same margin? Are ALL scouts on him wrong?

I just don't get it. That's all. I'm legitimately asking the question. What makes anyone who supports Sano at 3b think he can capably play there at the major league level without being a major defensive liability?

< Message edited by djskillz -- 7/8/2015 5:48:26 PM >

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 3657

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 5:36:54 PM

Steve Lentz

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Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: online

If Sano is what I think he is, he will always be in the lineup somewhere. He will mostly DH, but will play a little 3rd and 1st.

Arcia was my boy from the start, but he needs to get his game together and unfortunately is a below average defensive player. I would love to have that LH power bat in there everyday and could see him playing some OF.

I'm still higher on Santana than Polanco. Neither would be an average SS defensively IMO. I wish Gordon was closer.

Plouffe has proven I believe to be a better than average offensively and defensively. I keep him.

Buxton, Hicks, Rosario and Kepler sounds great and it will be very interesting to see it play out.

If you could get the right SS or catcher I would be open to trading a combination of Vargas, Arcia, Pelfrey, Kepler, Santana or Polanco.

_____________________________

" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"

Post #: 3658

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 5:38:25 PM

djskillz

Posts: 56863
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From: Nashville, TN
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Exactly where I stand, Steve. And honestly, I'd be a 'little' more willing to live with well below average defense at 3b with Sano if we had, say, Andrelton Simmons at SS. But to put Sano and one of Polanco/Santana on the same left side of an infield is almost a criminal offense to our pitching staff.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 3659

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 5:41:00 PM

Black 47

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The best solution to the problem would be if somehow, someway Mauer could have a custom made catching mask with all the newest impact cushion concussion preventing technologies, and Mauer becomes a part time catcher. It solves the catching problem on this team. Sano gets to play 1st base. Plouffe stays at 3B. Perfect case scenerio. Pipe dream, I realize.

Post #: 3660

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 5:54:15 PM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 36296
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Black 47

The best solution to the problem would be if somehow, someway Mauer could have a custom made catching mask with all the newest impact cushion concussion preventing technologies, and Mauer becomes a part time catcher. It solves the catching problem on this team. Sano gets to play 1st base. Plouffe stays at 3B. Perfect case scenerio. Pipe dream, I realize.

I know it will never happen, but Mauer at catcher would be game changing. His health is more important of course and again it won't happen.

_____________________________

" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"

Post #: 3661

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 6:08:57 PM

McMurfy

Posts: 13792
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Portland, Oregon
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Interesting quote here

“I was one of the guys who tried to get him to hang onto catching as long as he could,” Molitor says, “just because his unique gift set, as a guy who could win batting titles as a catcher and do things like that offensively, made him a little bit more unique. So as great as his offense can be, maybe we can see him go to another level.”

From this article

http://espn.go.com/blog/spring-training/post/_/id/1718/joe-mauer-playing-first-no-catch

Molitor was one of the guys who wanted Joe to catch

Of course Joe wasn't.
Joe is all about Joe.
Not the team mind you
all about Joe.

And don't give me that concussion crap,
guys get concussions at first base, batting, and sliding into second(Morneau)

So either grab your gear or don't play at all

Unless you hit .320, OPS .840+ and admit you're kind of a puss

_____________________________

The Curse of Mauer is gone!

Post #: 3662

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 6:14:32 PM

djskillz

Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

I will never understand people questioning concussions and their effects. With ZERO knowledge of the actual situation for that specific person.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 3663

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 6:23:09 PM

McMurfy

Posts: 13792
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Portland, Oregon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

I will never understand people questioning concussions and their effects. With ZERO knowledge of the actual situation for that specific person.

You're from Alaska

If it was up to you, no one would go out on those crab boats because it's just too dangerous.

I just wish Joe Mauer wanted to go out on those crab boats.

_____________________________

The Curse of Mauer is gone!

Post #: 3664

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 6:25:24 PM

djskillz

Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

No. I'm usually a "sack up" guy. But concussions are a different animal. I just refuse to question (Morneau/Koskie/Mauer/football players, anyone) someone's personal health when it comes to their BRAIN. There is too much mounting evidence on the longterm effects of concussions to ignore it. It's negligent and wrong. IMO.

And again, plenty of evidence backs up you are waaaayy more susceptible to concussions at C than other spots.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 7/8/2015 6:32:00 PM >

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 3665

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 6:25:50 PM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 36296
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Interesting quote here

“I was one of the guys who tried to get him to hang onto catching as long as he could,” Molitor says, “just because his unique gift set, as a guy who could win batting titles as a catcher and do things like that offensively, made him a little bit more unique. So as great as his offense can be, maybe we can see him go to another level.”

From this article

http://espn.go.com/blog/spring-training/post/_/id/1718/joe-mauer-playing-first-no-catch

Molitor was one of the guys who wanted Joe to catch

Of course Joe wasn't.
Joe is all about Joe.
Not the team mind you
all about Joe.

And don't give me that concussion crap,
guys get concussions at first base, batting, and sliding into second(Morneau)

So either grab your gear or don't play at all

Unless you hit .320, OPS .840+ and admit you're kind of a puss

Good article. It explains how Joe goes to everyone he possibly can to become a better first baseman.

As far as concussions, they should be taken very seriously and I for one don't want to see him end his career as it appears Morneau has.

_____________________________

" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"

Post #: 3666

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 6:30:46 PM

CPAMAN

Posts: 36324
Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Max Kepler tweaked his shoulder today, I hear. Initial thought is day-to-day. So minor. Did exit Chattanooga's game early. #mntwins

Sounds like a separation and a surgical repair is imminent.

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.

Post #: 3667

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 6:33:02 PM

CPAMAN

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Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I would part with Arcia before Vargas. They have the same defensive skill set and at least Vargas plays a position that is more forgiving of the defensively challenged. Arcia in reality is as much a DH as Vargas.

Maybe. But Vargas really isn't even a 1b. Maybe for a year or two, like Ortiz. But that's it. He's really bad even at 1b.

Arcia also has a much better minor league track record than Vargas, has had more major league success, and is younger by a year. Ultimately I guess you trade the guy with the higher trade value first. Both will ultimately probably need to go.

They are both dropping farther down the list of prospects as time goes on. I think Vargas is at least serviceable as a backup 1B. Arcia is just flat out a a train wreck in the OF. The age difference is insignificant. There is like 9 months between them.

I would be trying Arcia at 1b a bit to see if he can do anything there. He at least has more athleticism than Vargas, which obviously isn't saying much.

Where does Mauer play then?

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.

Post #: 3668

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 6:34:18 PM

CPAMAN

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Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I would part with Arcia before Vargas. They have the same defensive skill set and at least Vargas plays a position that is more forgiving of the defensively challenged. Arcia in reality is as much a DH as Vargas.

Maybe. But Vargas really isn't even a 1b. Maybe for a year or two, like Ortiz. But that's it. He's really bad even at 1b.

Arcia also has a much better minor league track record than Vargas, has had more major league success, and is younger by a year. Ultimately I guess you trade the guy with the higher trade value first. Both will ultimately probably need to go.

They are both dropping farther down the list of prospects as time goes on. I think Vargas is at least serviceable as a backup 1B. Arcia is just flat out a a train wreck in the OF. The age difference is insignificant. There is like 9 months between them.

I would be trying Arcia at 1b a bit to see if he can do anything there. He at least has more athleticism than Vargas, which obviously isn't saying much.

Where does Mauer play then?

Seriously, if Mauer would man-up and play catcher half-time, this team is a shoe-in for a WS title in 2016. With him at 1B, he is keeping a Sano, Arcia, or good Vargas out of the lineup.

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.

Post #: 3669

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 6:34:57 PM

djskillz

Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I would part with Arcia before Vargas. They have the same defensive skill set and at least Vargas plays a position that is more forgiving of the defensively challenged. Arcia in reality is as much a DH as Vargas.

Maybe. But Vargas really isn't even a 1b. Maybe for a year or two, like Ortiz. But that's it. He's really bad even at 1b.

Arcia also has a much better minor league track record than Vargas, has had more major league success, and is younger by a year. Ultimately I guess you trade the guy with the higher trade value first. Both will ultimately probably need to go.

They are both dropping farther down the list of prospects as time goes on. I think Vargas is at least serviceable as a backup 1B. Arcia is just flat out a a train wreck in the OF. The age difference is insignificant. There is like 9 months between them.

I would be trying Arcia at 1b a bit to see if he can do anything there. He at least has more athleticism than Vargas, which obviously isn't saying much.

Where does Mauer play then?

1b. I'm talking strictly as a backup, occasional 1b for Arcia.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 3670

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 7:50:15 PM

McMurfy

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From: Portland, Oregon
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As long as Mauer keeps hitting, no real need to move him, I'm just hoping for that, if he doesn't then, we'll discuss this again I assume.

_____________________________

The Curse of Mauer is gone!

Post #: 3671

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 8:39:25 PM

Black 47

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I CAN ONLY IMAGINE:

OF Buxton
OF Rosario
OF Hunter/Kepler
DH Arcia
1B Sano
2B Dozier
SS Polanco
3B Plouffe
C Mauer/Suzuki

Juggernaut. Minimum of 90 wins in 2016.

I stole "I Can Only Imagine" from the band "Mercy Me". Great song. Gives me goose bumps every time I hear it.

< Message edited by Black 47 -- 7/8/2015 8:42:37 PM >

Post #: 3672

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 8:43:23 PM

McMurfy

Posts: 13792
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline

Here's whatnis really going to happen.

We're getting AJ Pierzynski back.

Could be worse

We'll also add Neal Cotts and Jason Frasor.

Could be worse.

Not sexy, but both moves will be solid and we'll likely give up little

_____________________________

The Curse of Mauer is gone!

Post #: 3673

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 9:01:51 PM

Black 47

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Joined: 1/18/2014
Status: offline

I will say this about Mauer and the concussion. He didn't get moved solely because of the concussion. He got moved because the concussion was the last straw. It was a cumulative thing of all the injuries over the years and a realization they had to do something to keep him in the lineup.

You would think in this day and age the experts could use the latest technology and come up with some kind of ultra impact absorbing mask for catchers. Joe would maybe have to quit using the new age lightweight masks catchers have been spoiled with and wear something more bulkier and heavier, AND MORE PROTECTIVE.

Imagine the benefits:

-Frees up a log jam at 1st.
-Mauer can play part time, stay fresh, and solidify his status as a HOF catcher.

Post #: 3674

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/8/2015 9:11:11 PM

CPAMAN

Posts: 36324
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Black 47

I will say this about Mauer and the concussion. He didn't get moved solely because of the concussion. He got moved because the concussion was the last straw. It was a cumulative thing of all the injuries over the years and a realization they had to do something to keep him in the lineup.

You would think in this day and age the experts could use the latest technology and come up with some kind of ultra impact absorbing mask for catchers. Joe would maybe have to quit using the new age lightweight masks catchers have been spoiled with and wear something more bulkier and heavier, AND MORE PROTECTIVE.

Imagine the benefits:

-Frees up a log jam at 1st.
-Mauer can play part time, stay fresh, and solidify his status as a HOF catcher.

Dustin would like the HOF part.

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.

Post #: 3675

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