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Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2019 5:52:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Not a lot of standout FA guards or centers? THAT is not going to go over well here. We simply MUST sign a solid FA starting G. AND it doesn't damn well matter that said G may prefer other destinations instead of Minnesota. In the event we don't sign one to our liking the good news is many posters will be excited about the vaunted "June 1st cuts" where we can fill that need easy. Not a lot from what Ive seen so far. None as coveted as Norwell last year. And Norwell had an expensive/ineffective/injured year. I puke in my mouth thinking of "veteran cuts" that can reshape our line. The draft and FA are about supply and demand. Demand isn't going to be much lower than last year and supply, especially from the draft, is going to be lower. Meaning more draft capital and Bigger money to get similar than last year. I agree with most but we do not need to automatically expect additional draft capital be used to trade up for a G or a former tackle not quite good enough to play tackle or a former G who played tackle but projects to G. We do NOT know what other teams will do. We do NOT know how many viable candidates the team will identify. Interior OL is key, yes but we do however know that we have other needs that require draft capital. No decision is made in a vacuum. I'm not suggesting we mortgage the entire draft future of the team to draft one starting guard. If you read my earlier post, I made that caveat. Depending on draft ranking. But we need to do a better job than last year in anticipation of the flow of the draft. Last year, the FO SHOULD have known that there would be a run on guards early in the second round. I posted and predicted it Round 1 right after the draft. Go back and read the draft posts. It was obvious. Cool the hyperbole. Nobody is suggesting you said we "mortgage the entire future of the team to draft one starting guard". I'm not going back to read any draft posts. You said you were petty enough to do so, so have at it. This again? [&:] I should know better.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2019 6:03:40 PM)
All my posts related to the hughes/guard situation right after round 1 are condensed on Draft 2018 pages 16 to 18. I predicted that the remaining 1b guards (after nelson) would be gone by pick 37 Denver. I was wrong on some of the exact details (i thought denver would go guard), but the Giants needing a guard after picking Barkley was a no-brainer. Many of the early round teams that didn't pick a guard the first time through still had need. What I meant earlier in this thread was; slimmer pickings in FA and slimmer pickings with Draft/start day 1 options, with probably similar demand (I haven't dove into team needs of those picking 1-17) simply means a higher cost than last year. The good news, we pick 12 picks higher. BUT our need is just as big (if not bigger), and that puts more pressure on Spiel to get a starter. Which means I don't this we should rule out trading up to get a day 1 starter, again depending on our draft rankings. To elaborate further, hypothetically, if we only have 2 starting ranked guards and 1 is left at 14 and there is any doubt he doesn't make it to 18, you pull the trigger and trade up. Or at 18, you get a trade offer to move back 4 spots and still only 1 guard that you have as starter material, but if you have any doubt he'll be there 4 spots later, you decline the trade and make the pick. Too many situations to list them out. In a perfect world, our highest ranked guard falls to us at 18, and/or there are multiple options. With the precarious situation we are in, I don't think we have the luxury to not be aggressive. A lot can change between now and April. Ragnow flew up draft boards at the end and taken higher than many expected. But my general point remains.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2019 6:47:44 PM)
Pro Football Rumors @pfrumors 2h2 hours ago Falcons, Jaguars To Conduct OC Interviews With Darrell Bevell -- so why do you actually need to interview Bevell? don't you know what you're getting without talking to him? do you think maybe he has some new material?

Karl Juhnke -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2019 7:00:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Cool the hyperbole. Nobody is suggesting you said we "mortgage the entire future of the team to draft one starting guard". I don't know. I'm getting pretty close to there.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2019 7:24:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Cool the hyperbole. Nobody is suggesting you said we "mortgage the entire future of the team to draft one starting guard". I don't know. I'm getting pretty close to there. Seems like an eternity since we've had consistently decent offensive line play doesn't it?

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2019 7:50:57 PM)
Ryan Boser ‏ @Ryan_Boser 2h2 hours ago More In the end, the decision to move on from Cobra Kai cost the Vikings a R5, $2M, and almost certainly a playoff birth.

jbusse -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2019 8:29:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Ryan Boser ‏ @Ryan_Boser 2h2 hours ago More In the end, the decision to move on from Cobra Kai cost the Vikings a R5, $2M, and almost certainly a playoff birth. And the reason that teams with Super Bowl aspirations shouldn't draft a kicker played out to a tee: you don't have the luxury to be patient if they initially have issues, there is too much downside.

Karl Juhnke -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2019 8:38:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Cool the hyperbole. Nobody is suggesting you said we "mortgage the entire future of the team to draft one starting guard". I don't know. I'm getting pretty close to there. Seems like an eternity since we've had consistently decent offensive line play doesn't it? The way this team is built screams for a consistent OL. You signed a QB who's extremely talented (yes I still firmly believe that) but who is a classic pocket QB with limited mobility. And then you throw a ragtag bunch in front of him and hope for the best? Yeah what could possibly go wrong? We were among the worst in the league at QB under pressure.

jbusse -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2019 8:51:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Cool the hyperbole. Nobody is suggesting you said we "mortgage the entire future of the team to draft one starting guard". I don't know. I'm getting pretty close to there. Seems like an eternity since we've had consistently decent offensive line play doesn't it? The way this team is built screams for a consistent OL. You signed a QB who's extremely talented (yes I still firmly believe that) but who is a classic pocket QB with limited mobility. And then you throw a ragtag bunch in front of him and hope for the best? Yeah what could possibly go wrong? We were among the worst in the league at QB under pressure. What makes it even worse is Spielman took the same approach after 2015. Going into the 2016 season, it looked like we finally had found our QB in Teddy, who dealt with a poor offensive line during the 2015 season. Rather than pull out all the stops to protect the franchise QB, Spielman put together that rag-tag 2016 group that was even worse than this year's OL.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2019 8:53:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Cool the hyperbole. Nobody is suggesting you said we "mortgage the entire future of the team to draft one starting guard". I don't know. I'm getting pretty close to there. Seems like an eternity since we've had consistently decent offensive line play doesn't it? Amazing how Vikings fans are always about two years and two painful losses behind the times. I told you guys two years ago we should have drafted another offensive linemen and passed on Dalvin Cook. The chickens have finally come home to roost. There's no reason to buy sexy rims for the tires when your engine isn't running.

Guest -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2019 9:27:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman quote: ORIGINAL: Pager Big offseason for Rick: Find two competent interior guys. Probably need one in FA and one in the draft. The unfortunate situation, last year in a draft teeming with interior guys that could start day 1, we chose none of them. This year the draft is thin/not good/terrible for interior guys that can start. Need a WR that can stretch the field. If we have that, we can probably get by with a restructured contract Ruddy. So many teams have WRs picked after the third round that have promise. Who on our roster showed that kind of promise? Beebe for sure, but he's a 3rd down/slot kinda guy. Otherwise we need a TE that can stretch the field. Big offseason for Zimmer. Got outcoached in the majority of our losses: Mcvay/Rams. Nagy/Bears 2x, NE/Billy. I don't singularly blame him for the NO, BUF, or SEA losses. Needs to self-scout his performance and figure that s*** out asap. Big offseason for Cousins. Love his talent. Best option/choice we had and I'm excited for yr two. Horrible at improv. I don't know if you can fix it, but he needs to work on that. If the draft is weak for interior offensive lineman, Spielman better move heaven and earth to find 2 of them in FA. Honestly we need to have two significant upgrades to the interior OLine through trade or Free agency before the draft gets underway. Spielman exposed his arse making Tom Compton his big acquisition to the OLine last off-season.. and most of us beat that to death on the board, and simply hoped against hope that it would miraculously work out. No freakin chance. Was pleasantly surprised last year when Riley Reiff worked out well after initially hating the signing of Reiff/Remmers. Remmers needs to be on the same bus as Compton out of town tomorrow. I’d be watching Reiff closely, and maybe even moving him to RT (Which he wasn’t that good at) if O’Neill continues to progress. I look for two guards (Obviously), and Reiff’s replacement on either side.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/1/2019 9:50:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kurt bilben quote: ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman quote: ORIGINAL: Pager Big offseason for Rick: Find two competent interior guys. Probably need one in FA and one in the draft. The unfortunate situation, last year in a draft teeming with interior guys that could start day 1, we chose none of them. This year the draft is thin/not good/terrible for interior guys that can start. Need a WR that can stretch the field. If we have that, we can probably get by with a restructured contract Ruddy. So many teams have WRs picked after the third round that have promise. Who on our roster showed that kind of promise? Beebe for sure, but he's a 3rd down/slot kinda guy. Otherwise we need a TE that can stretch the field. Big offseason for Zimmer. Got outcoached in the majority of our losses: Mcvay/Rams. Nagy/Bears 2x, NE/Billy. I don't singularly blame him for the NO, BUF, or SEA losses. Needs to self-scout his performance and figure that s*** out asap. Big offseason for Cousins. Love his talent. Best option/choice we had and I'm excited for yr two. Horrible at improv. I don't know if you can fix it, but he needs to work on that. If the draft is weak for interior offensive lineman, Spielman better move heaven and earth to find 2 of them in FA. Honestly we need to have two significant upgrades to the interior OLine through trade or Free agency before the draft gets underway. Spielman exposed his arse making Tom Compton his big acquisition to the OLine last off-season.. and most of us beat that to death on the board, and simply hoped against hope that it would miraculously work out. No freakin chance. Was pleasantly surprised last year when Riley Reiff worked out well after initially hating the signing of Reiff/Remmers. Remmers needs to be on the same bus as Compton out of town tomorrow. I’d be watching Reiff closely, and maybe even moving him to RT (Which he wasn’t that good at) if O’Neill continues to progress. I look for two guards (Obviously), and Reiff’s replacement on either side. You guys make a good point to include trades. Nothing should be off the table. Just as important as OC, we need a stud/widely experienced Oline coach. Hopefully someone who has made the rounds and knows a lot of players from other teams. Their input should be critical to trade evals. Why I'm intrigued by Bill Callahan. I just realized tho, he is the assistant head coach and oline coach. Not sure how we could pry him away, Redskins could refuse an interview even if we offered similar situation (don't know contract situation).

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 6:00:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Not a lot of standout FA guards or centers? THAT is not going to go over well here. We simply MUST sign a solid FA starting G. AND it doesn't damn well matter that said G may prefer other destinations instead of Minnesota. In the event we don't sign one to our liking the good news is many posters will be excited about the vaunted "June 1st cuts" where we can fill that need easy. Not a lot from what Ive seen so far. None as coveted as Norwell last year. And Norwell had an expensive/ineffective/injured year. I puke in my mouth thinking of "veteran cuts" that can reshape our line. The draft and FA are about supply and demand. Demand isn't going to be much lower than last year and supply, especially from the draft, is going to be lower. Meaning more draft capital and Bigger money to get similar than last year. I agree with most but we do not need to automatically expect additional draft capital be used to trade up for a G or a former tackle not quite good enough to play tackle or a former G who played tackle but projects to G. We do NOT know what other teams will do. We do NOT know how many viable candidates the team will identify. Interior OL is key, yes but we do however know that we have other needs that require draft capital. No decision is made in a vacuum. I'm not suggesting we mortgage the entire draft future of the team to draft one starting guard. If you read my earlier post, I made that caveat. Depending on draft ranking. But we need to do a better job than last year in anticipation of the flow of the draft. Last year, the FO SHOULD have known that there would be a run on guards early in the second round. I posted and predicted it Round 1 right after the draft. Go back and read the draft posts. It was obvious. Cool the hyperbole. Nobody is suggesting you said we "mortgage the entire future of the team to draft one starting guard". I'm not going back to read any draft posts. You said you were petty enough to do so, so have at it. I think I would morgage an entire draft for Quentin Nelson

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 6:13:05 AM)
Chi picked up both these guys mid second rd 2016 Cody Whitehair 2018 James Daniels Both start for Chi and helped their oline push us around all day

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 6:32:12 AM)
One of two things have to happen. Either A, we have to upgrade the offensive line. Or B, we have to get a mobile quarterback that can make plays with his legs. For all his warts, Case Keenum made plays with his legs and did a lot of Houdini nonsense by escaping pressure. Kirk Cousins wants to make plays with his arm, and often holds on to the ball too long or throws it into places that don't exist (leading to a ton of turnovers). In retrospect, I would either A, trade Cousins to Denver for Keenum in a heartbeat. Or B, trade our offensive coordinator to the Giants for Shurmur. Neither of which are going to happen. Those were the two worst off-season moves of all, and they both land on Spielman's desk.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 6:35:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Cool the hyperbole. Nobody is suggesting you said we "mortgage the entire future of the team to draft one starting guard". I don't know. I'm getting pretty close to there. Seems like an eternity since we've had consistently decent offensive line play doesn't it? Amazing how Vikings fans are always about two years and two painful losses behind the times. I told you guys two years ago we should have drafted another offensive linemen and passed on Dalvin Cook. The chickens have finally come home to roost. There's no reason to buy sexy rims for the tires when your engine isn't running. 1/2 out of playoffs where a missed fog in GB would have got us in the playoffs....roost my ass. Is Pittsburgh firing Tomlin? If we didn't draft Cook we were drafting Hunt or Kamara in the 2nd or 3rd.....

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 6:47:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Cool the hyperbole. Nobody is suggesting you said we "mortgage the entire future of the team to draft one starting guard". I don't know. I'm getting pretty close to there. Seems like an eternity since we've had consistently decent offensive line play doesn't it? Amazing how Vikings fans are always about two years and two painful losses behind the times. I told you guys two years ago we should have drafted another offensive linemen and passed on Dalvin Cook. The chickens have finally come home to roost. There's no reason to buy sexy rims for the tires when your engine isn't running. 1/2 out of playoffs where a missed fog in GB would have got us in the playoffs....roost my ass. Is Pittsburgh firing Tomlin? If we didn't draft Cook we were drafting Hunt or Kamara in the 2nd or 3rd..... Not really sure what that post really meant. Try rewriting it. 1/2 out of playoffs? Missed fog? Is Pittsburgh firing Tomlin? Not sure how any of these things are related to what I posted.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 6:49:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Cool the hyperbole. Nobody is suggesting you said we "mortgage the entire future of the team to draft one starting guard". I don't know. I'm getting pretty close to there. Seems like an eternity since we've had consistently decent offensive line play doesn't it? Amazing how Vikings fans are always about two years and two painful losses behind the times. I told you guys two years ago we should have drafted another offensive linemen and passed on Dalvin Cook. The chickens have finally come home to roost. There's no reason to buy sexy rims for the tires when your engine isn't running. 1/2 out of playoffs where a missed fog in GB would have got us in the playoffs....roost my ass. Is Pittsburgh firing Tomlin? If we didn't draft Cook we were drafting Hunt or Kamara in the 2nd or 3rd..... Not really sure what that post really meant. Try rewriting it. You act like we were 5-11....we were 1/2 game out of the playoffs and you post like we weren't even close. You also know that if we didn't draft Cook we were drafting Kamara or Hunt in the same round or later. Oh and after NO drafted Kamara how did that work out? You add a 3rd WR, TE, and fix the Oline....you are in the playoffs fighting for home field next year.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 6:52:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Cool the hyperbole. Nobody is suggesting you said we "mortgage the entire future of the team to draft one starting guard". I don't know. I'm getting pretty close to there. Seems like an eternity since we've had consistently decent offensive line play doesn't it? Amazing how Vikings fans are always about two years and two painful losses behind the times. I told you guys two years ago we should have drafted another offensive linemen and passed on Dalvin Cook. The chickens have finally come home to roost. There's no reason to buy sexy rims for the tires when your engine isn't running. 1/2 out of playoffs where a missed fog in GB would have got us in the playoffs....roost my ass. Is Pittsburgh firing Tomlin? If we didn't draft Cook we were drafting Hunt or Kamara in the 2nd or 3rd..... Not really sure what that post really meant. Try rewriting it. You act like we were 5-11....we were 1/2 game out of the playoffs and you post like we weren't even close. You also know that if we didn't draft Cook we were drafting Kamara or Hunt in the same round or later. Oh and after NO drafted Kamara how did that work out? Kansas City and New Orleans both have good offensive lines. Thanks for cementing my point. We had problems with the engine and replaced the tires. For what it's worth, did we appear on the final day like we were close? Apparently you watched a different game than I.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 6:56:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Cool the hyperbole. Nobody is suggesting you said we "mortgage the entire future of the team to draft one starting guard". I don't know. I'm getting pretty close to there. Seems like an eternity since we've had consistently decent offensive line play doesn't it? Amazing how Vikings fans are always about two years and two painful losses behind the times. I told you guys two years ago we should have drafted another offensive linemen and passed on Dalvin Cook. The chickens have finally come home to roost. There's no reason to buy sexy rims for the tires when your engine isn't running. 1/2 out of playoffs where a missed fog in GB would have got us in the playoffs....roost my ass. Is Pittsburgh firing Tomlin? If we didn't draft Cook we were drafting Hunt or Kamara in the 2nd or 3rd..... Not really sure what that post really meant. Try rewriting it. You act like we were 5-11....we were 1/2 game out of the playoffs and you post like we weren't even close. You also know that if we didn't draft Cook we were drafting Kamara or Hunt in the same round or later. Oh and after NO drafted Kamara how did that work out? Kansas City and New Orleans both have good offensive lines. Thanks for cementing my point. No they drafted their RB and fixed the Oline....in the same draft too. You are wrong on Cook...

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 6:58:33 AM)
Would you fire the Pitt Coach and GM right now too....1/2 game from making the playoffs.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 7:11:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Cool the hyperbole. Nobody is suggesting you said we "mortgage the entire future of the team to draft one starting guard". I don't know. I'm getting pretty close to there. Seems like an eternity since we've had consistently decent offensive line play doesn't it? Amazing how Vikings fans are always about two years and two painful losses behind the times. I told you guys two years ago we should have drafted another offensive linemen and passed on Dalvin Cook. The chickens have finally come home to roost. There's no reason to buy sexy rims for the tires when your engine isn't running. 1/2 out of playoffs where a missed fog in GB would have got us in the playoffs....roost my ass. Is Pittsburgh firing Tomlin? If we didn't draft Cook we were drafting Hunt or Kamara in the 2nd or 3rd..... Not really sure what that post really meant. Try rewriting it. You act like we were 5-11....we were 1/2 game out of the playoffs and you post like we weren't even close. You also know that if we didn't draft Cook we were drafting Kamara or Hunt in the same round or later. Oh and after NO drafted Kamara how did that work out? Kansas City and New Orleans both have good offensive lines. Thanks for cementing my point. No they drafted their RB and fixed the Oline....in the same draft too. You are wrong on Cook... Yea okay. 2018: The Chiefs drafted Khalil McKenzie in the 6th round. He's not a starter. 2017: The Chiefs drafted zero offensive linemen 2018: The Saints drafted Rick Leonard in the 4th round. He's not a starter (not even on the roster). 2017: The Saints drafted Ryan Ramczyk in the first round. He's a good player, but has yet to be selected to the Pro Bowl or make an all-pro team. *******On a side note, New Orleans led the NFL in total offensive yardage in 2016, leading up to those two drafts. So, saying they fixed the offensive line while drafting a running back is very debatable. They also had 17 rushing touchdowns in 2016, which ranked 6th. GAME - SET - MATCH And for what it's worth, I happen to think Kareem Hunt and Alvin Kamara are far superior football players to Dalvin Cook.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 7:33:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Would you fire the Pitt Coach and GM right now too....1/2 game from making the playoffs. Pittsburgh has won six Super Bowls, more than any other franchise in the league. Something tells me they will bounce back. Why? Because they address needs in the draft. They even let their super star running back sit out a season on principle. Pittsburgh is the standard by which every franchise should follow. Not even a close comparison. They win because they are smart and calculated in their approach. Conversely, the Vikings franchise is constantly throwing darts into the air, hoping to hit something. When it comes to football, there's a big difference between calculated risk and hope. Calculated risk has six Super Bowl trophies. Hope is a constant disappointment.

CPAMAN -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 8:19:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Would you fire the Pitt Coach and GM right now too....1/2 game from making the playoffs. The Vikings were terrible at season's end. How can you find anything positive about the fate of this season? A half game from the playoffs? [&:]

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/2/2019 8:24:55 AM)
Why do people even bother...

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