RE: General Vikes Talk

RE: General Vikes Talk (Full Version)

All Forums >> [The Minnesota Vikings] >> Vikes Talk

Message

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 4:00:35 PM)
Ian Nice to have you back. Missed you around here.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 4:02:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: unome quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: unome quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H At some point the little guy stands up and fights. Nothing is more American than that. I will join them in taking a knee, because it is the most American thing to do. If you were a true patriot for mankind, you'd do the same. What Colin Kaepernick said in 2016: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color" In just 4 short years, Hoiseth, and others, have manage to complete reinvent kneeling for the National Anthem into what any true patriot would do. ???? But the kneeling clearly, and unambiguously, started as a protest against showing pride in a country that Kaepernick has no pride for. And his lack of pride/patriotism is not my opinion, but his plainly spoken opinion. How did kneeling for the National Anthem get to be anything even remotely positive about one's feelings toward the country when it started as the complete opposite and still means that to many, many Americans? If anyone has ever spent any time in a red state, they would know that no matter how much spin someone tries to put on kneeling for the Anthem, most people in those areas will never see it as anything but unpatriotic and an insult to what they hold most dear. Now, if you want to insult patriotic people, I guess you have found a great way to do it. Just do not pretend kneeling for the anthem will be doing anything other than increase the divide in the nation because that is reality whether you want to believe it or not. First off, what makes you think you know what Colin Kaepernick has pride in or doesn't have pride in? For a second rate poster on the TalkVikes site, you seem to be in the heads of a lot of people you know absolutely nothing about. A lot of people died on the battle field so that Kaepernick could take a knee during the national anthem. Who are you to tell them their fight was in vain? Coming from a third-rate TalkVikes poster, I guess second rate must look pretty good. Kaepernick has the right to kneel for the Anthem. He also has the right to burn the flag. Or join the KKK. Patriots fought for that freedom, but that does not mean kneeling for the Anthem, or joining the KKK, are a good use of that freedom. Having the right to do something is not the question here, it is simply whether it is a good idea and a helpful form of protest. I say it isn't a helpful form of protest, but that is massively different than telling anyone that their fight was in vain! If you cannot see the major difference in the two arguments, than I overrated you by calling you third-rate. Great post.

unome -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 4:03:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm You may be right about the electoral effect----it clearly stokes both sides. But conflating symbols and principles/laws like you keep doing is problematic. Whether it is problematic is a much different issue, and an argument where I probably share more in common with you than you may believe, but whether symbols should matter so much is fairly irrelevant in my opinion. They DO matter a lot to many people. Inflame people at your own peril. Or, more damagingly, at the peril of not ending racism.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 4:04:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: unome quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine And how far does kind, gentle, not messy change get us? So, in a way, when Brad admitted that he thought rioting and looting were OK as long as they had a positive effect, which they won't, you are arguing the same ends justify the means argument? I would argue that trying to be as kind-hearted and respectful when trying to appeal to a moral virtue is a great place to start. Supporting a moral virtue by insulting what other's believe to be a moral virtue is incredibly unwise. The fight for real change is almost always ugly. It unfortunately has proven that it has to be. It sounds great to say “if everyone just tried to be better, everyone would be”, but that’s fantasy. Unfortunately people need to be upset to trigger any kind of meaningful change.

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 4:06:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine Long-time Wolves and music writer (like going back 3 decades to City Pages) Britt Robson: "I've lived in South Minneapolis since 1986. We own a home 2 miles from the Floyd murder, 3 miles from the 3rd Precinct that was burned + a half-mile from the carnage that happened around the 5th Precinct. I feel better about my neighbors + my neighborhood than I did 6 months ago." I'm betting nothing of his went up in flames?

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 4:15:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine Long-time Wolves and music writer (like going back 3 decades to City Pages) Britt Robson: "I've lived in South Minneapolis since 1986. We own a home 2 miles from the Floyd murder, 3 miles from the 3rd Precinct that was burned + a half-mile from the carnage that happened around the 5th Precinct. I feel better about my neighbors + my neighborhood than I did 6 months ago." I'm betting nothing of his went up in flames? Maybe he cares more about his community than his personal belongings?

unome -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 4:18:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom Our country has outlawed Racism 100%. Nothing more we can do as a country. The change has to come from the people themselves. This is a good point. It literally is against the law to be racist in almost every way that could be considered systemic. Any lingering systemic racism is actually racism that comes from people themselves, which, of course, still exists. The system was not racist against black people, Derek Chauvin was. The system arrested him and charged him with murder. If everyone in the country was suddenly not racist, systemic racism would also immediately end. We have to change the hearts and minds of people still battling against their own racism, and it is in everyone of us to at least a certain degree. Don't agree? Remember Jesse Jackson's comments in 1993: "There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then (I) look around and see someone white and feel relieved." If someone that has spend their whole life fighting for civil rights can have these thoughts, none of us are immune. And kneeling for the Anthem is not going to make this any better.

unome -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 4:24:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine Maybe he cares more about his community than his personal belongings? Maybe, but having your domicile go up in flames is more than just your belongings. You fear for your life and the lives of loved ones. Even if someone was away when their house burned, their thoughts immediately turn to: what would have happened if my family had been home? And it sickens me that some people will marginalize when other people's private property is burned or destroyed. Is community more important than personal belongings to you? Have you sold all of your stuff and given it to community organizations? And why would personal belongings have to burn for the sake of the community anyway? If you care about your community, you tend not to light it on fire.

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 4:27:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: unome quote: ORIGINAL: Pager IF DIVIDE is what is needed to overturn systematic racism then we should be divided. Please explain how kneeling for the National Anthem will accomplish this. No more lame vagueness. Explain how that will do anything at all to help end systemic racism. I don't know what people call systemic racism. Our government sure doesn't practice systemic racism. It would be nice to be able to understand that. I did a quick search and other than some non-specific definitions ie. What is systemic racism? Johnson defined systemic racism, also called structural racism or institutional racism, as "systems and structures that have procedures or processes that disadvantages African Americans." Glenn Harris, president of Race Forward and publisher of Colorlines, defined it as "the complex interaction of culture, policy and institutions that holds in place the outcomes we see in our lives." "Systemic racism is naming the process of white supremacy," Harris said. The only real example they offered up was 'Redlining', which was banned in 1968. So would no longer be considered systemic I would guess. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/15/systemic-racism-what-does-mean/5343549002/ In one discussion (not in the above link), a guy described an instance of systemic racism as when his town did not set aside affordable housing for a new housing project. IMO that came more from his own racial mindset that blacks etc always need a leg up, which IMO is a very damaging mindset in itself.

unome -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 4:30:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: unome quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine And how far does kind, gentle, not messy change get us? So, in a way, when Brad admitted that he thought rioting and looting were OK as long as they had a positive effect, which they won't, you are arguing the same ends justify the means argument? I would argue that trying to be as kind-hearted and respectful when trying to appeal to a moral virtue is a great place to start. Supporting a moral virtue by insulting what other's believe to be a moral virtue is incredibly unwise. The fight for real change is almost always ugly. It unfortunately has proven that it has to be. It sounds great to say “if everyone just tried to be better, everyone would be”, but that’s fantasy. Unfortunately people need to be upset to trigger any kind of meaningful change. Maybe some people will be upset in the process of making change happen, but I would argue that the only people upset about the Civil Rights advances in the South were people who were openly racist and want systemic racism to continue. Screw them. But the people that are upset with kneeling for the Anthem are upset for completely other reasons. The cause of racial equality is an incredibly valuable one, but that does not mean that all means justify the incredibly valuable end. As you know, I have been arguing that the means of kneeling for the Anthem HARM the incredibly valuable end.

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 4:31:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine Long-time Wolves and music writer (like going back 3 decades to City Pages) Britt Robson: "I've lived in South Minneapolis since 1986. We own a home 2 miles from the Floyd murder, 3 miles from the 3rd Precinct that was burned + a half-mile from the carnage that happened around the 5th Precinct. I feel better about my neighbors + my neighborhood than I did 6 months ago." I'm betting nothing of his went up in flames? Maybe he cares more about his community than his personal belongings? I guess I'd like to hear more from the folks who had their business torched/looted/ruined.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 4:33:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: unome quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom Our country has outlawed Racism 100%. Nothing more we can do as a country. The change has to come from the people themselves. This is a good point. It literally is against the law to be racist in almost every way that could be considered systemic. Any lingering systemic racism is actually racism that comes from people themselves, which, of course, still exists. The system was not racist against black people, Derek Chauvin was. The system arrested him and charged him with murder. If everyone in the country was suddenly not racist, systemic racism would also immediately end. We have to change the hearts and minds of people still battling against their own racism, and it is in everyone of us to at least a certain degree. Don't agree? Remember Jesse Jackson's comments in 1993: "There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then (I) look around and see someone white and feel relieved." If someone that has spend their whole life fighting for civil rights can have these thoughts, none of us are immune. And kneeling for the Anthem is not going to make this any better. Chris Rock has a bit in his comedy where he says if you end up near anything named after Martin Luther King Jr run. Get the hell out of there.

Steve Miller -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 4:39:40 PM)
I think I have to agree with Brad on this. I myself am a retired vet. I am not offended by people kneeling in peaceful protest. Not a Kapernick fan but I thought the players did a brilliant thing. I think change is needed and I see it happening. Lots of talk about what it means to be a good citizen. How we are supposed to behave and think in a "correct " way. To protest in a bloodless "correct" way. Find offense in behavior that doesn't jibe with what others think is right. I saw this in a movie and it has stuck with me. Advocate at the top of your voice for the right of someone else to say or do (lawfully) that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of your voice. Teach that! Internalize that! Then come back to me about the home of the brave and the land of the free. Good citizenship has got to be more than just waving a flag and blaming others for what scares you. By the way I really liked the trade today. Nobody got taken to the woodshed. Fair deal all the way around.

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 5:02:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Steve Miller I think I have to agree with Brad on this. I myself am a retired vet. I am not offended by people kneeling in peaceful protest. Not a Kapernick fan but I thought the players did a brilliant thing. I think change is needed and I see it happening. Lots of talk about what it means to be a good citizen. How we are supposed to behave and think in a "correct " way. To protest in a bloodless "correct" way. Find offense in behavior that doesn't jibe with what others think is right. I saw this in a movie and it has stuck with me. Advocate at the top of your voice for the right of someone else to say or do (lawfully) that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of your voice. Teach that! Internalize that! Then come back to me about the home of the brave and the land of the free. Good citizenship has got to be more than just waving a flag and blaming others for what scares you. By the way I really liked the trade today. Nobody got taken to the woodshed. Fair deal all the way around. My understanding is that Ngakoue is a speed/wide rush specialist. I'm wondering how that will play in Zimmer's system where disciplined rush/staying in your lane is emphasized? And at 246 lbs, is he on the field in running situations? ie 1st down against run first teams, 2nd and 5...

unome -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 5:18:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Steve Miller I think I have to agree with Brad on this. I myself am a retired vet. I am not offended by people kneeling in peaceful protest. Not a Kapernick fan but I thought the players did a brilliant thing. I think change is needed and I see it happening. Lots of talk about what it means to be a good citizen. How we are supposed to behave and think in a "correct " way. To protest in a bloodless "correct" way. Find offense in behavior that doesn't jibe with what others think is right. I saw this in a movie and it has stuck with me. Advocate at the top of your voice for the right of someone else to say or do (lawfully) that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of your voice. Teach that! Internalize that! Then come back to me about the home of the brave and the land of the free. Good citizenship has got to be more than just waving a flag and blaming others for what scares you. By the way I really liked the trade today. Nobody got taken to the woodshed. Fair deal all the way around. So if you are not offended, we just ignore the fact that other people feel offense? And you want to "teach" and "internalize", I think that offending some people literally teaches and internalizes the wrong thing. No one is arguing against protest. In fact, you do a far better job arguing against racism than kneeling for the Anthem does. Speaking up for what is true and pointing out our shared values is far more helpful than disrespecting the Flag every well be. I love the Black Lives Matter ad, I think it was Charles Davis', where he points out that "liberty and justice for all" has to mean everyone. Say to people that say "All Lives Matter" that if that is true, we have to make sure we do enough for black people to feel they are included in that "all". This is how to argue for racial equality. Use patriotism and the founding father's words to support a shared unity against racism and treating people with inequality. Use the same patriotic emotionalism that causes people to be upset that the National Anthem is being dishonored, in their opinion, and channel it towards viewpoints supporting equality and not inflaming those that are emotional about their country away from feelings of equality. Thomas Jefferson has been mentioned here and he is a great case in point of two approaches. One a smart one IMO and one a foolish one. We could point out that he was a slaveholder and tear down his statues and inflame people. Or we could point out that he wrote "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" Which choice will help convince patriotic flag-waving Americans that ending racism is a choice for every good American? It is is not tearing a statue down, I can assure you of that. Point out our commonalities. How this country was literally founded by a group of people, flawed in some ways to be sure, who set about to create a nation based on principals of equality that were unfortunately fairly unique in nation-states up until that point. You want to craft a good protest, have everyone wear a shirt during the National Anthem that says "all good Americans believe that all men are created equal" in red, white and blue. Way, way more effective than kneeling.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 5:22:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: Steve Miller I think I have to agree with Brad on this. I myself am a retired vet. I am not offended by people kneeling in peaceful protest. Not a Kapernick fan but I thought the players did a brilliant thing. I think change is needed and I see it happening. Lots of talk about what it means to be a good citizen. How we are supposed to behave and think in a "correct " way. To protest in a bloodless "correct" way. Find offense in behavior that doesn't jibe with what others think is right. I saw this in a movie and it has stuck with me. Advocate at the top of your voice for the right of someone else to say or do (lawfully) that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of your voice. Teach that! Internalize that! Then come back to me about the home of the brave and the land of the free. Good citizenship has got to be more than just waving a flag and blaming others for what scares you. By the way I really liked the trade today. Nobody got taken to the woodshed. Fair deal all the way around. My understanding is that Ngakoue is a speed/wide rush specialist. I'm wondering how that will play in Zimmer's system where disciplined rush/staying in your lane is emphasized? And at 246 lbs, is he on the field in running situations? ie 1st down against run first teams, 2nd and 5... I didn't realize how Tiny he is. I always thought he was a full sized DE.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 5:25:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Steve Miller I think I have to agree with Brad on this. I myself am a retired vet. I am not offended by people kneeling in peaceful protest. Not a Kapernick fan but I thought the players did a brilliant thing. I think change is needed and I see it happening. Lots of talk about what it means to be a good citizen. How we are supposed to behave and think in a "correct " way. To protest in a bloodless "correct" way. Find offense in behavior that doesn't jibe with what others think is right. I saw this in a movie and it has stuck with me. Advocate at the top of your voice for the right of someone else to say or do (lawfully) that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of your voice. Teach that! Internalize that! Then come back to me about the home of the brave and the land of the free. Good citizenship has got to be more than just waving a flag and blaming others for what scares you. By the way I really liked the trade today. Nobody got taken to the woodshed. Fair deal all the way around. I was forgetting about the possibility of getting a 3rd round pick back, but I still don't like it. Especially after realizing he's only 246 pounds. We were already going to get crushed by the run game with Pierce opting out. It only gets worse now.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 5:27:15 PM)
The reason why people stand for the anthem and remove their hat and put their hand on their heart is a show of respect for the brave men and women that have lost their lives fighting for this country and cannot be there to stand. Kaepernick sat on the bench because he lost his starting job. it was 3 days later before he and his agent came up with the racial injustice cause and made it public. Actually Kaep met with a soldier that told him kneeling would be a more respectful way of conveying his message.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 5:48:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Steve Miller I think I have to agree with Brad on this. I myself am a retired vet. I am not offended by people kneeling in peaceful protest. Not a Kapernick fan but I thought the players did a brilliant thing. I think change is needed and I see it happening. Lots of talk about what it means to be a good citizen. How we are supposed to behave and think in a "correct " way. To protest in a bloodless "correct" way. Find offense in behavior that doesn't jibe with what others think is right. I saw this in a movie and it has stuck with me. Advocate at the top of your voice for the right of someone else to say or do (lawfully) that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of your voice. Teach that! Internalize that! Then come back to me about the home of the brave and the land of the free. Good citizenship has got to be more than just waving a flag and blaming others for what scares you. By the way I really liked the trade today. Nobody got taken to the woodshed. Fair deal all the way around. Thank you for your service Steve and your insight. The American President. Some great quotes in that. None better than that - its what true freedom of speech means.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 6:10:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: unome quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: unome quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H At some point the little guy stands up and fights. Nothing is more American than that. I will join them in taking a knee, because it is the most American thing to do. If you were a true patriot for mankind, you'd do the same. What Colin Kaepernick said in 2016: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color" In just 4 short years, Hoiseth, and others, have manage to complete reinvent kneeling for the National Anthem into what any true patriot would do. ???? But the kneeling clearly, and unambiguously, started as a protest against showing pride in a country that Kaepernick has no pride for. And his lack of pride/patriotism is not my opinion, but his plainly spoken opinion. How did kneeling for the National Anthem get to be anything even remotely positive about one's feelings toward the country when it started as the complete opposite and still means that to many, many Americans? If anyone has ever spent any time in a red state, they would know that no matter how much spin someone tries to put on kneeling for the Anthem, most people in those areas will never see it as anything but unpatriotic and an insult to what they hold most dear. Now, if you want to insult patriotic people, I guess you have found a great way to do it. Just do not pretend kneeling for the anthem will be doing anything other than increase the divide in the nation because that is reality whether you want to believe it or not. First off, what makes you think you know what Colin Kaepernick has pride in or doesn't have pride in? For a second rate poster on the TalkVikes site, you seem to be in the heads of a lot of people you know absolutely nothing about. A lot of people died on the battle field so that Kaepernick could take a knee during the national anthem. Who are you to tell them their fight was in vain? Coming from a third-rate TalkVikes poster, I guess second rate must look pretty good. Kaepernick has the right to kneel for the Anthem. He also has the right to burn the flag. Or join the KKK. Patriots fought for that freedom, but that does not mean kneeling for the Anthem, or joining the KKK, are a good use of that freedom. Having the right to do something is not the question here, it is simply whether it is a good idea and a helpful form of protest. I say it isn't a helpful form of protest, but that is massively different than telling anyone that their fight was in vain! If you cannot see the major difference in the two arguments, than I overrated you by calling you third-rate. Did Kaepernick burn the flag? Or join the KKK? I missed that. Nope, he knelt to bring attention to a 200+ year problem in our country that a large portion of our society has no desire to recognize. No hyperbole will change that. Rosa Parks once rejected an order to give up her seat and move to the back of the bus. I'm sure there was plenty of people at the time saying she was just an ungrateful bitch. I'm not going to be one of those people. I'd rather be on the right side of history and recognize the inequities in our society. You can denigrate Kaepernick's actions to immaterial if you wish. If what he did had no value, we wouldn't be talking about it four years later. Whether or not you think it had any value is irrelevant. You are speaking to an audience of about 50 in TalkVikes.

paulgly -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 6:49:39 PM)
I don't have a crystal ball for how everything will ultimately play out but I do believe that attitudes and outlooks can be changed by protests. Look no further than our head coach. Crazy part of this story is that he and Patterson have been friends for 30 years and it sounds like Zim had never heard this before. This is a tangible example of what protesting can accomplish: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.twincities.com/2020/08/27/best-friend-andre-patterson-has-been-valuable-resource-for-vikings-mike-zimmer/amp/

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 8:34:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: unome quote: ORIGINAL: Steve Miller I think I have to agree with Brad on this. I myself am a retired vet. I am not offended by people kneeling in peaceful protest. Not a Kapernick fan but I thought the players did a brilliant thing. I think change is needed and I see it happening. Lots of talk about what it means to be a good citizen. How we are supposed to behave and think in a "correct " way. To protest in a bloodless "correct" way. Find offense in behavior that doesn't jibe with what others think is right. I saw this in a movie and it has stuck with me. Advocate at the top of your voice for the right of someone else to say or do (lawfully) that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of your voice. Teach that! Internalize that! Then come back to me about the home of the brave and the land of the free. Good citizenship has got to be more than just waving a flag and blaming others for what scares you. By the way I really liked the trade today. Nobody got taken to the woodshed. Fair deal all the way around. So if you are not offended, we just ignore the fact that other people feel offense? And you want to "teach" and "internalize", I think that offending some people literally teaches and internalizes the wrong thing. No one is arguing against protest. In fact, you do a far better job arguing against racism than kneeling for the Anthem does. Speaking up for what is true and pointing out our shared values is far more helpful than disrespecting the Flag every well be. I love the Black Lives Matter ad, I think it was Charles Davis', where he points out that "liberty and justice for all" has to mean everyone. Say to people that say "All Lives Matter" that if that is true, we have to make sure we do enough for black people to feel they are included in that "all". This is how to argue for racial equality. Use patriotism and the founding father's words to support a shared unity against racism and treating people with inequality. Use the same patriotic emotionalism that causes people to be upset that the National Anthem is being dishonored, in their opinion, and channel it towards viewpoints supporting equality and not inflaming those that are emotional about their country away from feelings of equality. Thomas Jefferson has been mentioned here and he is a great case in point of two approaches. One a smart one IMO and one a foolish one. We could point out that he was a slaveholder and tear down his statues and inflame people. Or we could point out that he wrote "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" Which choice will help convince patriotic flag-waving Americans that ending racism is a choice for every good American? It is is not tearing a statue down, I can assure you of that. Point out our commonalities. How this country was literally founded by a group of people, flawed in some ways to be sure, who set about to create a nation based on principals of equality that were unfortunately fairly unique in nation-states up until that point. You want to craft a good protest, have everyone wear a shirt during the National Anthem that says "all good Americans believe that all men are created equal" in red, white and blue. Way, way more effective than kneeling. I just think that if there is going to be meaningful change, BLM will not be the ones who will bring it. People aren't blind. They see the antics. 1) Kill cops signs 2) ACAB 3) Blacks that disagree with them are called House N's 4) Gays that leave DEM party are called f**s Not to mention the senseless violence against people. The worst part is they record all this stuff and post it online. Like a badge of honor.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 9:17:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: unome quote: ORIGINAL: Steve Miller I think I have to agree with Brad on this. I myself am a retired vet. I am not offended by people kneeling in peaceful protest. Not a Kapernick fan but I thought the players did a brilliant thing. I think change is needed and I see it happening. Lots of talk about what it means to be a good citizen. How we are supposed to behave and think in a "correct " way. To protest in a bloodless "correct" way. Find offense in behavior that doesn't jibe with what others think is right. I saw this in a movie and it has stuck with me. Advocate at the top of your voice for the right of someone else to say or do (lawfully) that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of your voice. Teach that! Internalize that! Then come back to me about the home of the brave and the land of the free. Good citizenship has got to be more than just waving a flag and blaming others for what scares you. By the way I really liked the trade today. Nobody got taken to the woodshed. Fair deal all the way around. So if you are not offended, we just ignore the fact that other people feel offense? And you want to "teach" and "internalize", I think that offending some people literally teaches and internalizes the wrong thing. No one is arguing against protest. In fact, you do a far better job arguing against racism than kneeling for the Anthem does. Speaking up for what is true and pointing out our shared values is far more helpful than disrespecting the Flag every well be. I love the Black Lives Matter ad, I think it was Charles Davis', where he points out that "liberty and justice for all" has to mean everyone. Say to people that say "All Lives Matter" that if that is true, we have to make sure we do enough for black people to feel they are included in that "all". This is how to argue for racial equality. Use patriotism and the founding father's words to support a shared unity against racism and treating people with inequality. Use the same patriotic emotionalism that causes people to be upset that the National Anthem is being dishonored, in their opinion, and channel it towards viewpoints supporting equality and not inflaming those that are emotional about their country away from feelings of equality. Thomas Jefferson has been mentioned here and he is a great case in point of two approaches. One a smart one IMO and one a foolish one. We could point out that he was a slaveholder and tear down his statues and inflame people. Or we could point out that he wrote "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" Which choice will help convince patriotic flag-waving Americans that ending racism is a choice for every good American? It is is not tearing a statue down, I can assure you of that. Point out our commonalities. How this country was literally founded by a group of people, flawed in some ways to be sure, who set about to create a nation based on principals of equality that were unfortunately fairly unique in nation-states up until that point. You want to craft a good protest, have everyone wear a shirt during the National Anthem that says "all good Americans believe that all men are created equal" in red, white and blue. Way, way more effective than kneeling. I just think that if there is going to be meaningful change, BLM will not be the ones who will bring it. What is meaningful change to you may not be meaningful change to others, and vice versa. Change isn't generally immediate. It takes time. Mark, what would you consider meaningful change?

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 9:21:12 PM)
The #Vikings and DE Yannick Ngakoue agreed to a revised one-year deal worth $12 million -- and there's not a no-tag clause, meaning Minnesota can franchise him in 2021, per source. https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1300219298699452416?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1300219298699452416%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpurplepainforums.com%2Fthread%2F3661%2Fvikings-trade-yannick-ngakoue%3Fpage%3D6 So the Vikings can tag him again. Interesting. More leverage for us - tag and trade. If Yannick has a great 2020 season, there are options for us. And the amount he agreed to allows the Vikes to be under the cap. It also means his next year's franchise rate is 14M, which is pretty reasonable. At worst we get him, two years at 13M per and a likely 3rd round comp pick. He REALLY wanted out of Jacksonville. My concern continues to be about the $. Trade or cut Reiff and be done with it.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 9:23:56 PM)
Riley Reiff has frequently been considered the primary target for salary cap relief for the Vikings, as he has a $13.2 salary cap hit this year, with not much dead cap. Perhaps with that in mind, the Vikings had Brian O’Neill at left tackle in practice today for the first time, and Oli Udoh starting at right tackle. Stay tuned. https://www.dailynorseman.com/2020/8/30/21407715/why-yannick-ngakoue-makes-sense-for-the-vikings We do this - and the Yannick trade was a no-brainer.

Page: << < prev 144 145 [146] 147 148 next > >>

Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5.5 Unicode