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thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/30/2020 10:07:28 PM)
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ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson
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ORIGINAL: Brad H
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ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson
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ORIGINAL: unome
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ORIGINAL: Steve Miller
I think I have to agree with Brad on this. I myself am a retired vet. I am not offended by people kneeling in peaceful protest. Not a Kapernick fan but I thought the players did a brilliant thing. I think change is needed and I see it happening. Lots of talk about what it means to be a good citizen. How we are supposed to behave and think in a "correct " way. To protest in a bloodless "correct" way. Find offense in behavior that doesn't jibe with what others think is right. I saw this in a movie and it has stuck with me. Advocate at the top of your voice for the right of someone else to say or do (lawfully) that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of your voice. Teach that! Internalize that! Then come back to me about the home of the brave and the land of the free. Good citizenship has got to be more than just waving a flag and blaming others for what scares you. By the way I really liked the trade today. Nobody got taken to the woodshed. Fair deal all the way around.
So if you are not offended, we just ignore the fact that other people feel offense? And you want to "teach" and "internalize", I think that offending some people literally teaches and internalizes the wrong thing.
No one is arguing against protest. In fact, you do a far better job arguing against racism than kneeling for the Anthem does. Speaking up for what is true and pointing out our shared values is far more helpful than disrespecting the Flag every well be.
I love the Black Lives Matter ad, I think it was Charles Davis', where he points out that "liberty and justice for all" has to mean everyone. Say to people that say "All Lives Matter" that if that is true, we have to make sure we do enough for black people to feel they are included in that "all".
This is how to argue for racial equality. Use patriotism and the founding father's words to support a shared unity against racism and treating people with inequality.
Use the same patriotic emotionalism that causes people to be upset that the National Anthem is being dishonored, in their opinion, and channel it towards viewpoints supporting equality and not inflaming those that are emotional about their country away from feelings of equality.
Thomas Jefferson has been mentioned here and he is a great case in point of two approaches. One a smart one IMO and one a foolish one.
We could point out that he was a slaveholder and tear down his statues and inflame people. Or we could point out that he wrote "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"
Which choice will help convince patriotic flag-waving Americans that ending racism is a choice for every good American?
It is is not tearing a statue down, I can assure you of that.
Point out our commonalities. How this country was literally founded by a group of people, flawed in some ways to be sure, who set about to create a nation based on principals of equality that were unfortunately fairly unique in nation-states up until that point.
You want to craft a good protest, have everyone wear a shirt during the National Anthem that says "all good Americans believe that all men are created equal" in red, white and blue.
Way, way more effective than kneeling.
I just think that if there is going to be meaningful change, BLM will not be the ones who will bring it.
What is meaningful change to you may not be meaningful change to others, and vice versa.
Change isn't generally immediate. It takes time.
Mark, what would you consider meaningful change?
Do you think that those examples I posted will bring meaningful change?
To get to your question, I think I posted some thoughts on the covid thread.
It can't just be a blank check. Maybe reparations in the form of money for education and owning a house. Police reform(Camden, NJ is a great example)
But, my biggest thing is an effort to reduce deadbeat dads in this country. I think it was Jason Blake's sister who told black men to step up(Sharpton looked like he wanted to pull the plug on the microphone) and be the head of the family unit.
Deadbeat dads are a problem for all races. Stats are overwhelming that kids have a better chance with a father in the home.
It's something of a vicious circle, something that IF progress is actually made, entails multiple generations
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