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Rob Viking -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:18:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

Cousins is better than I thought he was

But

the head scratching plays still remain

I will be pissed about that 4th down pass for a long time - while understanding he is the only option at QB for next year

I put him in the same class as a Derek Carr. Has his moments but doesn't do it consistently. He's a perennial 14-20 quarterback in the league.

Personally I would have cut him the day he said he wasn't going to get vaccinated, but that's just me.


Derek Carr is a scared QB. Gruden was beginning to change that but he has reverted to turtle mode. Cousins' last play is what Derek Carr does 5x a game.



Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:19:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

Cousins is better than I thought he was

But

the head scratching plays still remain

I will be pissed about that 4th down pass for a long time - while understanding he is the only option at QB for next year

I put him in the same class as a Derek Carr. Has his moments but doesn't do it consistently. He's a perennial 14-20 quarterback in the league.

Personally I would have cut him the day he said he wasn't going to get vaccinated, but that's just me.


Derek Carr is a scared QB. Gruden was beginning to change that but he has reverted to turtle mode. Cousins' last play is what Derek Carr does 5x a game.

It's what Cousins does five times a game as well. You just noticed it now because it ended the season.

When guys start checking down, their career is close to an end. See Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz, Eli Manning.....etc... Check down is good for yards passing and QB rating, but not for wins.



Lars -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:19:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

???
I saw a tweet about what Drew Brews did with bottom 4 defenses versus top 10 defenses. What the team did with its limitations this year was amazing.

Tear the defense down and include Thielen and Cook in that tear down. You have 2 OT, JJeff, and TJ which is too much young talent to go in full rebuild mode. JJeff is generational and TJ isn't far behind.


Dare I say......BINGO!!



Murph -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:20:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

not terribly unexpected, but at least it wasnt embarrassing.

to me, it felt like the keenum year...fun, but not enough to win it all, so just enjoy the run...enjoy the wins, the catch, etc...

defense was too much of a liability for me to buy in all year.

keenum year without a minneapolis miracle


I certainly try to tell myself just enjoy it, it's not a big deal, but man really frustrating to see other organization who haven't won a Super Bowl building towards giving themselves chances like Cincy and Jax. Hell, I even love the young team Detroit has.

Just really depressing this team has never won a Super Bowl, and doesn't really seem they are on a path to building one at the moment. In fact things may need to get worse for a year or 2, before they get better

The problem starts at the top. Are the Wilf's willing to do what necessary?

Or are they satisfied with just being competitive but fizzling out every year?

By continuing to trot Kirk out there I'm going with the latter.


???
I saw a tweet about what Drew Brews did with bottom 4 defenses versus top 10 defenses. What the team did with its limitations this year was amazing.

Tear the defense down and include Thielen and Cook in that tear down. You have 2 OT, JJeff, and TJ which is too much young talent to go in full rebuild mode. JJeff is generational and TJ isn't far behind.

Come on Phil. This team is going nowhere with Kirk. Him continuing to qb the Vikings is just a monumental waste of time. Yes I know the defense sucks. However this team is spinning its wheels until hes gone.


You are going to problem number 15 if not 20 on the list of this years issues...we are a 5 win team w/o Kirk this year.

Kirk will be here next year. The #1 issue is the 31st ranked defense but you can keep hammering on Kirk...[sm=Beating_A_Dead_Horse_by_livius.gif]


So much about this runs 100% contrary to what our mentality should be as a franchise, imho

I also disagree, Kirk with his big contract is problem #1, defensive coordinator and defensive scheme is #2, aging and mediocre defensive players #3, interior offensive line #4, GM that drafts by numbers #5

I'd rather be a 5 win team without Kirk and draft a cheap replacement than be a playoff team and lose after a game or two with him, never being even a mild threat for the Super Bowl.



Lars -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:21:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I'm not sure he has aged so much as he has lost his hunger to be great. He's still a very capable player, but clearly on the backside of his career. His role has changed since Jefferson emerged.

KJ Osborn emerged as a nice player down the stretch. The Vikes may want to think about extending him.


Agreed.



Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:22:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

not terribly unexpected, but at least it wasnt embarrassing.

to me, it felt like the keenum year...fun, but not enough to win it all, so just enjoy the run...enjoy the wins, the catch, etc...

defense was too much of a liability for me to buy in all year.

keenum year without a minneapolis miracle


I certainly try to tell myself just enjoy it, it's not a big deal, but man really frustrating to see other organization who haven't won a Super Bowl building towards giving themselves chances like Cincy and Jax. Hell, I even love the young team Detroit has.

Just really depressing this team has never won a Super Bowl, and doesn't really seem they are on a path to building one at the moment. In fact things may need to get worse for a year or 2, before they get better

The problem starts at the top. Are the Wilf's willing to do what necessary?

Or are they satisfied with just being competitive but fizzling out every year?

That is the key issue for the franchise this offseason. QB. Not defense. Staying the course or striving for better.

Obviously the defense will get overhauled … there’s no choice or decision to make. Maybe swap our expensive mediocre with cheap mediocre and a new DC. Whatever happens, it will be different and not worse, probably. The odds are with us.

But QB … thats a tougher more franchise defining decision. Even after his cataclysmic planet destroying bad decision, the KC apologists will be clamoring for another extension based on ‘who else is out there thats better?’ KC had two buttons to choose from, one to obliterate the planet killing meteor with a nuclear bomb and one to use the butterfly net. But ‘he just needs better players around him’ so he won’t in theory be put in that position. At some point in the playoffs, all QBs are ALWAYS put in that position. Some have a knack for coming through, some don’t. He don’t.

Anyway. Can’t see the current regime shaking things up offensively … in fact, I’ll be surprised if they dont extend KC through 2024 as a statement / commitment to ‘what we are building’.

Even though what they planned / constructed / designed was mostly left over from the previous regime … combined with getting every good bounce of the ball in all 13 games that were not blowouts.



Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:23:49 AM)

I don't think this team has any business signing a WR to a record contract. Not with the direction we're going.

And if I were him I'd want out. One shit playoff appearance in 3 years. Probably be able to say 1 in 5 in a couple of years.

I'd take our lumps. Blow it up.

Whatever they do I don't think I'll watch. Might take at least a year off. I don't know if I'll be able to get up for this team again.



Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:24:56 AM)

There is no toughness to this defense. They couldn't be further from what makes a great defense.



Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:26:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I don't think this team has any business signing a WR to a record contract. Not with the direction we're going.

And if I were him I'd want out. One shit playoff appearance in 3 years. Probably be able to say 1 in 5 in a couple of years.

I'd take our lumps. Blow it up.

Whatever they do I don't think I'll watch. Might take at least a year off. I don't know if I'll be able to get up for this team again.

Agreed. We need to get out of the business of having the biggest contracts in the league. We made the same mistake with Adrian Peterson. Wide receivers are even more tenuous. One knee tweak and his career hits the skids.

Love the kid as a player, but..........



Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:27:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I don't think this team has any business signing a WR to a record contract. Not with the direction we're going.

And if I were him I'd want out. One shit playoff appearance in 3 years. Probably be able to say 1 in 5 in a couple of years.

I'd take our lumps. Blow it up.

Whatever they do I don't think I'll watch. Might take at least a year off. I don't know if I'll be able to get up for this team again.

8.5 million over the cap and we'll back up the Brinks for a WR while having no qb solution and no defense. That's this franchise in a nutshell.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:29:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

I would spend this offseason building a new defense - even though I am not a huge Cousins fan. Also, there is no excuse for 1 pass for 4 yards for Jefferson.

Other teams with star WRs somehow manage to get them the ball even with the other team focusing on him.

The amazing decline in Thielen perhaps contributed to that

BUT

The defense and the DC are atrocious. Both must go

Jefferson isn't above criticism either. In the biggest games this season he was a no show. Exception being the Bills game.

Jefferson is a good player. The offense ran through him this season, which is why his numbers were so big. Way too much is made of his numbers.

Frankly, I'd like to see a more balanced offense so when we play a big game the other team doesn't know where it is coming from.

He had 128 catches for 1,800+ yards and eight scores.

They could be a better team if he had 100 catches, 1,400 yards and six scores. In fact, his scores may go up if we spread around the ball more.

Add in the fact that we simply can't run the ball. Personally I'm a bit skeptical of KOC as some brilliant offensive mind. I don't recall if any play designs or play calls that wowed me this season. In fact, more boneheaded play calling than anything. Esp the 3rd and one pass back to Cousins from JJ. That was flat out stupid.



Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:29:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I don't think this team has any business signing a WR to a record contract. Not with the direction we're going.

And if I were him I'd want out. One shit playoff appearance in 3 years. Probably be able to say 1 in 5 in a couple of years.

I'd take our lumps. Blow it up.

Whatever they do I don't think I'll watch. Might take at least a year off. I don't know if I'll be able to get up for this team again.

8.5 million over the cap and we'll back up the Brinks for a WR while having no qb solution and no defense. That's this franchise in a nutshell.

Spielman left this franchise in a really terrible spot.

BTW, no other franchise has shown any interest in hiring him.



Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:31:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

I would spend this offseason building a new defense - even though I am not a huge Cousins fan. Also, there is no excuse for 1 pass for 4 yards for Jefferson.

Other teams with star WRs somehow manage to get them the ball even with the other team focusing on him.

The amazing decline in Thielen perhaps contributed to that

BUT

The defense and the DC are atrocious. Both must go

Jefferson isn't above criticism either. In the biggest games this season he was a no show. Exception being the Bills game.

Jefferson is a good player. The offense ran through him this season, which is why his numbers were so big. Way too much is made of his numbers.

Frankly, I'd like to see a more balanced offense so when we play a big game the other team doesn't know where it is coming from.

He had 128 catches for 1,800+ yards and eight scores.

They could be a better team if he had 100 catches, 1,400 yards and six scores. In fact, his scores may go up if we spread around the ball more.

Add in the fact that we simply can't run the ball. Personally I'm a bit skeptical of KOC as some brilliant offensive mind. I don't recall if any play designs or play calls that wowed me this season. In fact, more boneheaded play calling than anything. Esp the 3rd and one pass back to Cousins from JJ. That was flat out stupid.

He's not an offensive genius. That's for sure. I like some qualities about him but there seems to be a reason he wasn't calling plays in LA.



Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:32:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

I would spend this offseason building a new defense - even though I am not a huge Cousins fan. Also, there is no excuse for 1 pass for 4 yards for Jefferson.

Other teams with star WRs somehow manage to get them the ball even with the other team focusing on him.

The amazing decline in Thielen perhaps contributed to that

BUT

The defense and the DC are atrocious. Both must go

Jefferson isn't above criticism either. In the biggest games this season he was a no show. Exception being the Bills game.

Jefferson is a good player. The offense ran through him this season, which is why his numbers were so big. Way too much is made of his numbers.

Frankly, I'd like to see a more balanced offense so when we play a big game the other team doesn't know where it is coming from.

He had 128 catches for 1,800+ yards and eight scores.

They could be a better team if he had 100 catches, 1,400 yards and six scores. In fact, his scores may go up if we spread around the ball more.

Add in the fact that we simply can't run the ball. Personally I'm a bit skeptical of KOC as some brilliant offensive mind. I don't recall if any play designs or play calls that wowed me this season. In fact, more boneheaded play calling than anything. Esp the 3rd and one pass back to Cousins from JJ. That was flat out stupid.

Agree entirely. He won a bunch of close games against backup quarterbacks. If he was 9-8 to finish the season (which is what they should have been), nobody would be talking about him being a great offensive mind.

Kliff Kingsbury went 11-6 in 2021. Now he's living in Thailand.



JC2022 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:33:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

Cousins is better than I thought he was

But

the head scratching plays still remain

I will be pissed about that 4th down pass for a long time - while understanding he is the only option at QB for next year

I put him in the same class as a Derek Carr. Has his moments but doesn't do it consistently. He's a perennial 14-20 quarterback in the league.

Personally I would have cut him the day he said he wasn't going to get vaccinated, but that's just me.

Purgatory QBs

Good enough to give you hope and earn big contracts
Not good enough to be champions



Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:33:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

Cousins is better than I thought he was

But

the head scratching plays still remain

I will be pissed about that 4th down pass for a long time - while understanding he is the only option at QB for next year

I put him in the same class as a Derek Carr. Has his moments but doesn't do it consistently. He's a perennial 14-20 quarterback in the league.

Personally I would have cut him the day he said he wasn't going to get vaccinated, but that's just me.

Purgatory QBs

Good enough to give you hope and earn big contracts
Not good enough to be champions

Throw Ryan Tannehill in that group. Kyler Murray. Dak Prescott.



JC2022 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:33:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

???
I saw a tweet about what Drew Brews did with bottom 4 defenses versus top 10 defenses. What the team did with its limitations this year was amazing.

Tear the defense down and include Thielen and Cook in that tear down. You have 2 OT, JJeff, and TJ which is too much young talent to go in full rebuild mode. JJeff is generational and TJ isn't far behind.


Dare I say......BINGO!!

What's up brother!



Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:34:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

As I see it, these are the teams that definitely should be looking for a quarterback in the off-season.

Las Vegas (Carr will be somewhere else)
Tampa
Indianapolis
Washington
Rams
New Orleans
Green Bay (I think Rodgers is done with football)
Dolphins (too many headaches for Tua, he needs to retire or be brain dead)
LA Rams

These are teams that should consider looking for a new quarterback next season.

Atlanta (has an unproven rookie)
New York Jets
Houston
Carolina
New England (Mac Jones will lose the internal battle with Belichick)

These are teams that are screwed because they are hooked into a crazy deal.

Dallas
Minnesota
Arizona
Tennessee
Cleveland
Denver

These teams are totally comfortable with their quarterback situation.

Kansas City
Buffalo
Pittsburgh
Cincinnati
Chargers
Philadelphia
NY Giants
San Francisco
Seattle
Detroit
Chicago (for one more year)
Baltimore

For JC. This was my post earlier.



Lars -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:35:32 AM)

So let's talk QB:

Rodgers, Goff, Fields? No thanks.
Dak?
Tua?

Hell, even Burrow threw for 1 TD and 200 yards at home yesterday. Epic fumble by BAL saved them from losing.

I'm no Cousins fan. I start with the fact that he is a Sparty - LOL. But there are much bigger issues than him. I would give him a B to B+ as a QB. I given the defense an F - at every level.

So if you do cut Cousins, you DO need to put someone else under center. Who would that be???



Lars -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:36:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

???
I saw a tweet about what Drew Brews did with bottom 4 defenses versus top 10 defenses. What the team did with its limitations this year was amazing.

Tear the defense down and include Thielen and Cook in that tear down. You have 2 OT, JJeff, and TJ which is too much young talent to go in full rebuild mode. JJeff is generational and TJ isn't far behind.


Dare I say......BINGO!!

What's up brother!


Life is good! Hope the same for you, too!

After all these years, we are still here! [8|]



Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:38:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

So let's talk QB:

Rodgers, Goff, Fields? No thanks.
Dak?
Tua?

Hell, even Burrow threw for 1 TD and 200 yards at home yesterday. Epic fumble by BAL saved them from losing.

I'm no Cousins fan. I start with the fact that he is a Sparty - LOL. But there are much bigger issues than him. I would give him a B to B+ as a QB. I given the defense an F - at every level.

So if you do cut Cousins, you DO need to put someone else under center. Who would that be???

People can say what they want, but the best season the Vikings have had in recent memory was with Case Keenum at the helm. And he had one of the worst offensive lines in football.

You never know how a guy is going to turn out.



Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:38:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

???
I saw a tweet about what Drew Brews did with bottom 4 defenses versus top 10 defenses. What the team did with its limitations this year was amazing.

Tear the defense down and include Thielen and Cook in that tear down. You have 2 OT, JJeff, and TJ which is too much young talent to go in full rebuild mode. JJeff is generational and TJ isn't far behind.


Dare I say......BINGO!!

What's up brother!


Life is good! Hope the same for you, too!

After all these years, we are still here! [8|]

I'm glad to see you guys still here!



Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:39:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

So let's talk QB:

Rodgers, Goff, Fields? No thanks.
Dak?
Tua?

Hell, even Burrow threw for 1 TD and 200 yards at home yesterday. Epic fumble by BAL saved them from losing.

I'm no Cousins fan. I start with the fact that he is a Sparty - LOL. But there are much bigger issues than him. I would give him a B to B+ as a QB. I given the defense an F - at every level.

So if you do cut Cousins, you DO need to put someone else under center. Who would that be???

People can say what they want, but the best season the Vikings have had in recent memory was with Case Keenum at the helm. And he had one of the worst offensive lines in football.

You never know how a guy is going to turn out.

Was just going to post that. Case freaking Keenum has done more for the Vikings than Cousins ever will.



JC2022 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:43:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

As I see it, these are the teams that definitely should be looking for a quarterback in the off-season.

Las Vegas (Carr will be somewhere else)
Tampa
Indianapolis
Washington
Rams
New Orleans
Green Bay (I think Rodgers is done with football)
Dolphins (too many headaches for Tua, he needs to retire or be brain dead)
LA Rams

These are teams that should consider looking for a new quarterback next season.

Atlanta (has an unproven rookie)
New York Jets
Houston
Carolina
New England (Mac Jones will lose the internal battle with Belichick)

These are teams that are screwed because they are hooked into a crazy deal.

Dallas
Minnesota
Arizona
Tennessee
Cleveland
Denver

These teams are totally comfortable with their quarterback situation.

Kansas City
Buffalo
Pittsburgh
Cincinnati
Chargers
Philadelphia
NY Giants
San Francisco
Seattle
Detroit
Chicago (for one more year)
Baltimore

For JC. This was my post earlier.

Pretty darn accurate!

Is the guy behind Rodgers any good?



JC2022 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/16/2023 11:45:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

???
I saw a tweet about what Drew Brews did with bottom 4 defenses versus top 10 defenses. What the team did with its limitations this year was amazing.

Tear the defense down and include Thielen and Cook in that tear down. You have 2 OT, JJeff, and TJ which is too much young talent to go in full rebuild mode. JJeff is generational and TJ isn't far behind.


Dare I say......BINGO!!

What's up brother!


Life is good! Hope the same for you, too!

After all these years, we are still here! [8|]

I'm glad to see you guys still here!

You can take breaks

But you can't leave until the Vikings WIN a Super Bowl!



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