quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Jones won 9 games with a much better defense.

Yup, he is better than Cousins who won 13

Makes sense to me.

I don't look at it as a simple Jones vs. Cousins comparison. I look at the big picture. Jones' cap hits over the last four years were (rounded) $5, $6, $7, and $8 million. Cousins' were $29, $21, $31, and $31. So in each of those years you don't just get Jones but you get Jones + whatever the extra $24 million buys you which could be a star corner AND a star guard.

Problem with Jones...NYG didn't think enough of him to guarantee his last year (before a full year of Daboll). So there is that.
So if you go hypothetical the first 3 years are struggles with decent WR on his contract.

See I don't see that as a problem. They got a serviceable QB that wasn't a homerun. That allowed them to cut bait and keep trying. The strange wrinkle was that he produced in his fourth year under a new coach. This is also most definitley NOT a problem. They can resign him if they think he's a homerun with Daboll or they can simply move on. They are in the drivers seat. What's Jones' market value? Too high - goodbye. Unexpetedly low? Sweet - sign him!

Right there is an example of a startling difference in logic, smarts, and common sense.

And the Giants have scraps for WR. Cousins has had Diggs, a prime Thielen, and now a couple of 'generational' talents.

Weird...Giants most likely done in a week also. So would that make your philosphy any better?

Yes, on one hand the Giants have what is likely an ascending QB that they have the option to keep or have walk. On the other, we have a descending QB who the football world is mocking for an absolutely stupid decision to end the season to whom we are stuck with.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Jones won 9 games with a much better defense.

Yup, he is better than Cousins who won 13

Makes sense to me.

I don't look at it as a simple Jones vs. Cousins comparison. I look at the big picture. Jones' cap hits over the last four years were (rounded) $5, $6, $7, and $8 million. Cousins' were $29, $21, $31, and $31. So in each of those years you don't just get Jones but you get Jones + whatever the extra $24 million buys you which could be a star corner AND a star guard.

Problem with Jones...NYG didn't think enough of him to guarantee his last year (before a full year of Daboll). So there is that.
So if you go hypothetical the first 3 years are struggles with decent WR on his contract.

See I don't see that as a problem. They got a serviceable QB that wasn't a homerun. That allowed them to cut bait and keep trying. The strange wrinkle was that he produced in his fourth year under a new coach. This is also most definitley NOT a problem. They can resign him if they think he's a homerun with Daboll or they can simply move on. They are in the drivers seat. What's Jones' market value? Too high - goodbye. Unexpetedly low? Sweet - sign him!

Right there is an example of a startling difference in logic, smarts, and common sense.

And the Giants have scraps for WR. Cousins has had Diggs, a prime Thielen, and now a couple of 'generational' talents.

Cap hit for 2022 Devante Adams this year. 2022 12 Million. 2023 14 Million
Cap hit for 2020 George Kittle 5/75 2020 5.8 million 2021 5.45 million

Fairly low cap hits. TJ set to make 9.5 million next year; JJ 4 million.

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Jones won 9 games with a much better defense.

Yup, he is better than Cousins who won 13

Makes sense to me.

I don't look at it as a simple Jones vs. Cousins comparison. I look at the big picture. Jones' cap hits over the last four years were (rounded) $5, $6, $7, and $8 million. Cousins' were $29, $21, $31, and $31. So in each of those years you don't just get Jones but you get Jones + whatever the extra $24 million buys you which could be a star corner AND a star guard.

Problem with Jones...NYG didn't think enough of him to guarantee his last year (before a full year of Daboll). So there is that.
So if you go hypothetical the first 3 years are struggles with decent WR on his contract.

See I don't see that as a problem. They got a serviceable QB that wasn't a homerun. That allowed them to cut bait and keep trying. The strange wrinkle was that he produced in his fourth year under a new coach. This is also most definitley NOT a problem. They can resign him if they think he's a homerun with Daboll or they can simply move on. They are in the drivers seat. What's Jones' market value? Too high - goodbye. Unexpetedly low? Sweet - sign him!

and... if you want you can rent under a franchise tag, or trade under franchise tag etc....

thats what i would have done with Flacco after the super bowl


or if you let him leave with a big contract, you may get 3rd round draft compensation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen
By the way Phil, this past offseason you continually praised Kwesi for the cap he created (in reality just kicked down the road), his wonderful free agent signings on defense, and his high draft picks on defense. To the point where is was like you were Kwesi's mentee or agent.
Just who from those acquisitions, let alone the entire defense, is a must-keep?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Jones won 9 games with a much better defense.

Yup, he is better than Cousins who won 13

Makes sense to me.

I don't look at it as a simple Jones vs. Cousins comparison. I look at the big picture. Jones' cap hits over the last four years were (rounded) $5, $6, $7, and $8 million. Cousins' were $29, $21, $31, and $31. So in each of those years you don't just get Jones but you get Jones + whatever the extra $24 million buys you which could be a star corner AND a star guard.

Problem with Jones...NYG didn't think enough of him to guarantee his last year (before a full year of Daboll). So there is that.
So if you go hypothetical the first 3 years are struggles with decent WR on his contract.

See I don't see that as a problem. They got a serviceable QB that wasn't a homerun. That allowed them to cut bait and keep trying. The strange wrinkle was that he produced in his fourth year under a new coach. This is also most definitley NOT a problem. They can resign him if they think he's a homerun with Daboll or they can simply move on. They are in the drivers seat. What's Jones' market value? Too high - goodbye. Unexpetedly low? Sweet - sign him!

and... if you want you can rent under a franchise tag, or trade under franchise tag etc....

thats what i would have done with Flacco after the super bowl


or if you let him leave with a big contract, you may get 3rd round draft compensation

Are the Giants like 3 deep at QB?

They need to sign him and it will cost them a pretty penny. Franchise tag kills your cap. It all counts. no signing bonus to spread out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Jones won 9 games with a much better defense.

Yup, he is better than Cousins who won 13

Makes sense to me.

I don't look at it as a simple Jones vs. Cousins comparison. I look at the big picture. Jones' cap hits over the last four years were (rounded) $5, $6, $7, and $8 million. Cousins' were $29, $21, $31, and $31. So in each of those years you don't just get Jones but you get Jones + whatever the extra $24 million buys you which could be a star corner AND a star guard.

Problem with Jones...NYG didn't think enough of him to guarantee his last year (before a full year of Daboll). So there is that.
So if you go hypothetical the first 3 years are struggles with decent WR on his contract.

See I don't see that as a problem. They got a serviceable QB that wasn't a homerun. That allowed them to cut bait and keep trying. The strange wrinkle was that he produced in his fourth year under a new coach. This is also most definitley NOT a problem. They can resign him if they think he's a homerun with Daboll or they can simply move on. They are in the drivers seat. What's Jones' market value? Too high - goodbye. Unexpetedly low? Sweet - sign him!

Right there is an example of a startling difference in logic, smarts, and common sense.

And the Giants have scraps for WR. Cousins has had Diggs, a prime Thielen, and now a couple of 'generational' talents.

Cap hit for 2022 Devante Adams this year. 2022 12 Million. 2023 14 Million
Cap hit for 2020 George Kittle 5/75 2020 5.8 million 2021 5.45 million

Fairly low cap hits. TJ set to make 9.5 million next year; JJ 4 million.

I see you left out Tyreke Hill and Travis Kelse.

Tyreek Hill signed a 4 year, $120,000,000 contract with the Miami Dolphins, including a $25,500,000 signing bonus, $72,200,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $30,000,000.

In 2023, Kelce will earn a base salary of $11,250,000, a roster bonus of $750,000 and a workout bonus of $250,000, while carrying a cap hit of $14,801,666 and a dead cap value of $7,655,000. Contract Notes: $20.75M guaranteed at signing (2020 salary + 2021 salary + 2021 roster bonus).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen
By the way Phil, this past offseason you continually praised Kwesi for the cap he created (in reality just kicked down the road), his wonderful free agent signings on defense, and his high draft picks on defense. To the point where is was like you were Kwesi's mentee or agent.
Just who from those acquisitions, let alone the entire defense, is a must-keep?

Booth, Cine, and the LB still have promise yet. The Gopher DLineman played decent.

I think we have been down this road before on who you eventually thought we should draft (Davis, Hamilton who was gone already). The kicking down the road was the 28 million dead cap created by the last regime. Harry, Thielen, Cook were also before him.

I think you are ok with trading Watts and Dozier for Tonga and Shelley?
Do you want him gone?

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Jones won 9 games with a much better defense.

Yup, he is better than Cousins who won 13

Makes sense to me.

I don't look at it as a simple Jones vs. Cousins comparison. I look at the big picture. Jones' cap hits over the last four years were (rounded) $5, $6, $7, and $8 million. Cousins' were $29, $21, $31, and $31. So in each of those years you don't just get Jones but you get Jones + whatever the extra $24 million buys you which could be a star corner AND a star guard.

Problem with Jones...NYG didn't think enough of him to guarantee his last year (before a full year of Daboll). So there is that.
So if you go hypothetical the first 3 years are struggles with decent WR on his contract.

See I don't see that as a problem. They got a serviceable QB that wasn't a homerun. That allowed them to cut bait and keep trying. The strange wrinkle was that he produced in his fourth year under a new coach. This is also most definitley NOT a problem. They can resign him if they think he's a homerun with Daboll or they can simply move on. They are in the drivers seat. What's Jones' market value? Too high - goodbye. Unexpetedly low? Sweet - sign him!

and... if you want you can rent under a franchise tag, or trade under franchise tag etc....

thats what i would have done with Flacco after the super bowl


or if you let him leave with a big contract, you may get 3rd round draft compensation

Are the Giants like 3 deep at QB?

They need to sign him and it will cost them a pretty penny. Franchise tag kills your cap. It all counts. no signing bonus to spread out.

Barkley i
yes, it does, they have to pay the piper for not using the 5th year option

but i would rather see one more year, than a long term mistake (ie Flacco)


I would not care if I missed out on some FAs this year to be sure I have a QBOTF

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Jones won 9 games with a much better defense.

Yup, he is better than Cousins who won 13

Makes sense to me.

I don't look at it as a simple Jones vs. Cousins comparison. I look at the big picture. Jones' cap hits over the last four years were (rounded) $5, $6, $7, and $8 million. Cousins' were $29, $21, $31, and $31. So in each of those years you don't just get Jones but you get Jones + whatever the extra $24 million buys you which could be a star corner AND a star guard.

Problem with Jones...NYG didn't think enough of him to guarantee his last year (before a full year of Daboll). So there is that.
So if you go hypothetical the first 3 years are struggles with decent WR on his contract.

See I don't see that as a problem. They got a serviceable QB that wasn't a homerun. That allowed them to cut bait and keep trying. The strange wrinkle was that he produced in his fourth year under a new coach. This is also most definitley NOT a problem. They can resign him if they think he's a homerun with Daboll or they can simply move on. They are in the drivers seat. What's Jones' market value? Too high - goodbye. Unexpetedly low? Sweet - sign him!

Right there is an example of a startling difference in logic, smarts, and common sense.

And the Giants have scraps for WR. Cousins has had Diggs, a prime Thielen, and now a couple of 'generational' talents.

Cap hit for 2022 Devante Adams this year. 2022 12 Million. 2023 14 Million
Cap hit for 2020 George Kittle 5/75 2020 5.8 million 2021 5.45 million

Fairly low cap hits. TJ set to make 9.5 million next year; JJ 4 million.

I see you left out Tyreke Hill and Travis Kelse.

Tyreek Hill signed a 4 year, $120,000,000 contract with the Miami Dolphins, including a $25,500,000 signing bonus, $72,200,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $30,000,000.

In 2023, Kelce will earn a base salary of $11,250,000, a roster bonus of $750,000 and a workout bonus of $250,000, while carrying a cap hit of $14,801,666 and a dead cap value of $7,655,000. Contract Notes: $20.75M guaranteed at signing (2020 salary + 2021 salary + 2021 roster bonus).

Tyreke had a 2022 cap of 6 million. All of those contracts are actually shorter with outs.

For 2023 they are doable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Jones won 9 games with a much better defense.

Yup, he is better than Cousins who won 13

Makes sense to me.

I don't look at it as a simple Jones vs. Cousins comparison. I look at the big picture. Jones' cap hits over the last four years were (rounded) $5, $6, $7, and $8 million. Cousins' were $29, $21, $31, and $31. So in each of those years you don't just get Jones but you get Jones + whatever the extra $24 million buys you which could be a star corner AND a star guard.

Problem with Jones...NYG didn't think enough of him to guarantee his last year (before a full year of Daboll). So there is that.
So if you go hypothetical the first 3 years are struggles with decent WR on his contract.

See I don't see that as a problem. They got a serviceable QB that wasn't a homerun. That allowed them to cut bait and keep trying. The strange wrinkle was that he produced in his fourth year under a new coach. This is also most definitley NOT a problem. They can resign him if they think he's a homerun with Daboll or they can simply move on. They are in the drivers seat. What's Jones' market value? Too high - goodbye. Unexpetedly low? Sweet - sign him!

Right there is an example of a startling difference in logic, smarts, and common sense.

And the Giants have scraps for WR. Cousins has had Diggs, a prime Thielen, and now a couple of 'generational' talents.

Cap hit for 2022 Devante Adams this year. 2022 12 Million. 2023 14 Million
Cap hit for 2020 George Kittle 5/75 2020 5.8 million 2021 5.45 million

Fairly low cap hits. TJ set to make 9.5 million next year; JJ 4 million.

I see you left out Tyreke Hill and Travis Kelse.

Tyreek Hill signed a 4 year, $120,000,000 contract with the Miami Dolphins, including a $25,500,000 signing bonus, $72,200,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $30,000,000.

In 2023, Kelce will earn a base salary of $11,250,000, a roster bonus of $750,000 and a workout bonus of $250,000, while carrying a cap hit of $14,801,666 and a dead cap value of $7,655,000. Contract Notes: $20.75M guaranteed at signing (2020 salary + 2021 salary + 2021 roster bonus).

Tyreke had a 2022 cap of 6 million. All of those contracts are actually shorter with outs.
Kelce signed a 4/57 in 2020. First year cap was 11 million.

For 2023 they are doable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Jones won 9 games with a much better defense.

Yup, he is better than Cousins who won 13

Makes sense to me.

I don't look at it as a simple Jones vs. Cousins comparison. I look at the big picture. Jones' cap hits over the last four years were (rounded) $5, $6, $7, and $8 million. Cousins' were $29, $21, $31, and $31. So in each of those years you don't just get Jones but you get Jones + whatever the extra $24 million buys you which could be a star corner AND a star guard.

Problem with Jones...NYG didn't think enough of him to guarantee his last year (before a full year of Daboll). So there is that.
So if you go hypothetical the first 3 years are struggles with decent WR on his contract.

See I don't see that as a problem. They got a serviceable QB that wasn't a homerun. That allowed them to cut bait and keep trying. The strange wrinkle was that he produced in his fourth year under a new coach. This is also most definitley NOT a problem. They can resign him if they think he's a homerun with Daboll or they can simply move on. They are in the drivers seat. What's Jones' market value? Too high - goodbye. Unexpetedly low? Sweet - sign him!

Right there is an example of a startling difference in logic, smarts, and common sense.

And the Giants have scraps for WR. Cousins has had Diggs, a prime Thielen, and now a couple of 'generational' talents.

Cap hit for 2022 Devante Adams this year. 2022 12 Million. 2023 14 Million
Cap hit for 2020 George Kittle 5/75 2020 5.8 million 2021 5.45 million

Fairly low cap hits. TJ set to make 9.5 million next year; JJ 4 million.

I see you left out Tyreke Hill and Travis Kelse.

Tyreek Hill signed a 4 year, $120,000,000 contract with the Miami Dolphins, including a $25,500,000 signing bonus, $72,200,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $30,000,000.

In 2023, Kelce will earn a base salary of $11,250,000, a roster bonus of $750,000 and a workout bonus of $250,000, while carrying a cap hit of $14,801,666 and a dead cap value of $7,655,000. Contract Notes: $20.75M guaranteed at signing (2020 salary + 2021 salary + 2021 roster bonus).

Tyreke had a 2022 cap of 6 million. All of those contracts are actually shorter with outs.
Kelce signed a 4/57 in 2020. First year cap was 11 million.

For 2023 they are doable.

You're a big credit card fan aren't you?

What do you do in 1 or 2 years when you're out of easy to dump big contracts and all the money you've pushed ahead is now a balloon payment?

Restructure everyone again?

You maximize today and say screw the future if you're a legit SB contender. Not when you're in a "soft rebuild".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Jones won 9 games with a much better defense.

Yup, he is better than Cousins who won 13

Makes sense to me.

I don't look at it as a simple Jones vs. Cousins comparison. I look at the big picture. Jones' cap hits over the last four years were (rounded) $5, $6, $7, and $8 million. Cousins' were $29, $21, $31, and $31. So in each of those years you don't just get Jones but you get Jones + whatever the extra $24 million buys you which could be a star corner AND a star guard.

Problem with Jones...NYG didn't think enough of him to guarantee his last year (before a full year of Daboll). So there is that.
So if you go hypothetical the first 3 years are struggles with decent WR on his contract.

See I don't see that as a problem. They got a serviceable QB that wasn't a homerun. That allowed them to cut bait and keep trying. The strange wrinkle was that he produced in his fourth year under a new coach. This is also most definitley NOT a problem. They can resign him if they think he's a homerun with Daboll or they can simply move on. They are in the drivers seat. What's Jones' market value? Too high - goodbye. Unexpetedly low? Sweet - sign him!

Right there is an example of a startling difference in logic, smarts, and common sense.

And the Giants have scraps for WR. Cousins has had Diggs, a prime Thielen, and now a couple of 'generational' talents.

Cap hit for 2022 Devante Adams this year. 2022 12 Million. 2023 14 Million
Cap hit for 2020 George Kittle 5/75 2020 5.8 million 2021 5.45 million

Fairly low cap hits. TJ set to make 9.5 million next year; JJ 4 million.

I see you left out Tyreke Hill and Travis Kelse.

Tyreek Hill signed a 4 year, $120,000,000 contract with the Miami Dolphins, including a $25,500,000 signing bonus, $72,200,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $30,000,000.

In 2023, Kelce will earn a base salary of $11,250,000, a roster bonus of $750,000 and a workout bonus of $250,000, while carrying a cap hit of $14,801,666 and a dead cap value of $7,655,000. Contract Notes: $20.75M guaranteed at signing (2020 salary + 2021 salary + 2021 roster bonus).

Tyreke had a 2022 cap of 6 million. All of those contracts are actually shorter with outs.
Kelce signed a 4/57 in 2020. First year cap was 11 million.

For 2023 they are doable.

You're a big credit card fan aren't you?

What do you do in 1 or 2 years when you're out of easy to dump big contracts and all the money you've pushed ahead is now a balloon payment?

Restructure everyone again?

You maximize today and say screw the future if you're a legit SB contender. Not when you're in a "soft rebuild".

You give Dalvins, Thielens, and Harry's money to TJ and JJeff in 2024 and structure it that way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes
These people are pupae and KC is their fuzzy cocoon.

KC won us over the year. The defense side is a bigger concern. If you can't fix it you may as well blow it up. Expectations were for a top 10 offense and a defense being 15-20 and improving as season went on....second part never happened.

For me even with the last checkdown by the KC the defense was the deciding factor. They just couldn't stop anything and should have given up another TD to Slayton.

Sounds like they postponed the KOC end of year news conference until tomorrow.....some speculating a new DC already.

that is exactly what we needed to happen to be a true contender, and you are exactly right on the assessment


they tried their 'last dance'.....and came up short

now we pay the piper for a one year late rebuild


I enjoyed the year, so I cant be too mad about going for the last dance...it worked WAY more than i expected, but I am ready to see what Kwesi can do going forward (first draft was sketchy, but some pretty nice additions to build from)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Jones won 9 games with a much better defense.

Yup, he is better than Cousins who won 13

Makes sense to me.

I don't look at it as a simple Jones vs. Cousins comparison. I look at the big picture. Jones' cap hits over the last four years were (rounded) $5, $6, $7, and $8 million. Cousins' were $29, $21, $31, and $31. So in each of those years you don't just get Jones but you get Jones + whatever the extra $24 million buys you which could be a star corner AND a star guard.

Problem with Jones...NYG didn't think enough of him to guarantee his last year (before a full year of Daboll). So there is that.
So if you go hypothetical the first 3 years are struggles with decent WR on his contract.

See I don't see that as a problem. They got a serviceable QB that wasn't a homerun. That allowed them to cut bait and keep trying. The strange wrinkle was that he produced in his fourth year under a new coach. This is also most definitley NOT a problem. They can resign him if they think he's a homerun with Daboll or they can simply move on. They are in the drivers seat. What's Jones' market value? Too high - goodbye. Unexpetedly low? Sweet - sign him!

Right there is an example of a startling difference in logic, smarts, and common sense.

And the Giants have scraps for WR. Cousins has had Diggs, a prime Thielen, and now a couple of 'generational' talents.

Cap hit for 2022 Devante Adams this year. 2022 12 Million. 2023 14 Million
Cap hit for 2020 George Kittle 5/75 2020 5.8 million 2021 5.45 million

Fairly low cap hits. TJ set to make 9.5 million next year; JJ 4 million.

I see you left out Tyreke Hill and Travis Kelse.

Tyreek Hill signed a 4 year, $120,000,000 contract with the Miami Dolphins, including a $25,500,000 signing bonus, $72,200,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $30,000,000.

In 2023, Kelce will earn a base salary of $11,250,000, a roster bonus of $750,000 and a workout bonus of $250,000, while carrying a cap hit of $14,801,666 and a dead cap value of $7,655,000. Contract Notes: $20.75M guaranteed at signing (2020 salary + 2021 salary + 2021 roster bonus).

Tyreke had a 2022 cap of 6 million. All of those contracts are actually shorter with outs.
Kelce signed a 4/57 in 2020. First year cap was 11 million.

For 2023 they are doable.

You're a big credit card fan aren't you?

What do you do in 1 or 2 years when you're out of easy to dump big contracts and all the money you've pushed ahead is now a balloon payment?

Restructure everyone again?

You maximize today and say screw the future if you're a legit SB contender. Not when you're in a "soft rebuild".

You give Dalvins, Thielens, and Harry's money to TJ and JJeff in 2024 and structure it that way.

So we burn our cut player savings on existing players?

How are we adding talent?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The Vikings are actually set up to allow Kwesi to continue his "competitive rebuild" while remaining competitive next year.

Barring a weird string of good fortune with future acquisitions, there is no way we are competitive next year. And "remaining competitive" is a bit misleading because of all the well-mentioned lucky things that happened this year.

"Competitive rebuild" is some BS term Zygi may have conjured up. Especially when the D needs an outright rebuild with, yet again, less than average draft assets and starting with a cap deficit.

Kwesi needs to put on his big boy pants and pull off the band-aids, pay the piper, whatever. If he is in fact doing Wilf's bidding, he should quit his job.

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ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The Vikings are actually set up to allow Kwesi to continue his "competitive rebuild" while remaining competitive next year.

Barring a weird string of good fortune with future acquisitions, there is no way we are competitive next year. And "remaining competitive" is a bit misleading because of all the well-mentioned lucky things that happened this year.

"Competitive rebuild" is some BS term Zygi may have conjured up. Especially when the D needs an outright rebuild with, yet again, less than average draft assets and starting with a cap deficit.

Kwesi needs to put on his big boy pants and pull off the band-aids, pay the piper, whatever. If he is in fact doing Wilf's bidding, he should quit his job.

Most of the suggestions on here have been pulling off the band aids.

Cook, Harry, Kendricks, Z, Thielen, Hicks, Ham, Reed are on the chopping block. Offense basically stays in tact.

Spend 25-30M on some new defenders and maybe we can get 10-11 wins next year.

All of it for naught if we don't dive hard into QBOTF pool.

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ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The Vikings are actually set up to allow Kwesi to continue his "competitive rebuild" while remaining competitive next year.

Barring a weird string of good fortune with future acquisitions, there is no way we are competitive next year. And "remaining competitive" is a bit misleading because of all the well-mentioned lucky things that happened this year.

"Competitive rebuild" is some BS term Zygi may have conjured up. Especially when the D needs an outright rebuild with, yet again, less than average draft assets and starting with a cap deficit.

Kwesi needs to put on his big boy pants and pull off the band-aids, pay the piper, whatever. If he is in fact doing Wilf's bidding, he should quit his job.

Most of the suggestions on here have been pulling off the band aids.

Cook, Harry, Kendricks, Z, Thielen, Hicks, Ham, Reed are on the chopping block. Offense basically stays in tact.

Spend 25-30M on some new defenders and maybe we can get 10-11 wins next year.

All of it for naught if we don't dive hard into QBOTF pool.

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: bstinger

Kendricks is no longer our best.

I still think he's our best defender. That may not mean much when your defense is rated #31, but it is what it is. If he's not, who is?

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ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

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ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The Vikings are actually set up to allow Kwesi to continue his "competitive rebuild" while remaining competitive next year.

Barring a weird string of good fortune with future acquisitions, there is no way we are competitive next year. And "remaining competitive" is a bit misleading because of all the well-mentioned lucky things that happened this year.

"Competitive rebuild" is some BS term Zygi may have conjured up. Especially when the D needs an outright rebuild with, yet again, less than average draft assets and starting with a cap deficit.

Kwesi needs to put on his big boy pants and pull off the band-aids, pay the piper, whatever. If he is in fact doing Wilf's bidding, he should quit his job.

Most of the suggestions on here have been pulling off the band aids.

Cook, Harry, Kendricks, Z, Thielen, Hicks, Ham, Reed are on the chopping block. Offense basically stays in tact.

Spend 25-30M on some new defenders and maybe we can get 10-11 wins next year.

All of it for naught if we don't dive hard into QBOTF pool.

Exactly. The Vikings were the 7th ranked scoring offense. No reason to think they can't be just as good next year. Even a slight improvement on defense and the team will be competitive.

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: David F.

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: David F.

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ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Jones won 9 games with a much better defense.

Yup, he is better than Cousins who won 13

Makes sense to me.

I don't look at it as a simple Jones vs. Cousins comparison. I look at the big picture. Jones' cap hits over the last four years were (rounded) $5, $6, $7, and $8 million. Cousins' were $29, $21, $31, and $31. So in each of those years you don't just get Jones but you get Jones + whatever the extra $24 million buys you which could be a star corner AND a star guard.

Problem with Jones...NYG didn't think enough of him to guarantee his last year (before a full year of Daboll). So there is that.
So if you go hypothetical the first 3 years are struggles with decent WR on his contract.

See I don't see that as a problem. They got a serviceable QB that wasn't a homerun. That allowed them to cut bait and keep trying. The strange wrinkle was that he produced in his fourth year under a new coach. This is also most definitley NOT a problem. They can resign him if they think he's a homerun with Daboll or they can simply move on. They are in the drivers seat. What's Jones' market value? Too high - goodbye. Unexpetedly low? Sweet - sign him!

Right there is an example of a startling difference in logic, smarts, and common sense.

And the Giants have scraps for WR. Cousins has had Diggs, a prime Thielen, and now a couple of 'generational' talents.

Cap hit for 2022 Devante Adams this year. 2022 12 Million. 2023 14 Million
Cap hit for 2020 George Kittle 5/75 2020 5.8 million 2021 5.45 million

Fairly low cap hits. TJ set to make 9.5 million next year; JJ 4 million.

I see you left out Tyreke Hill and Travis Kelse.

Tyreek Hill signed a 4 year, $120,000,000 contract with the Miami Dolphins, including a $25,500,000 signing bonus, $72,200,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $30,000,000.

In 2023, Kelce will earn a base salary of $11,250,000, a roster bonus of $750,000 and a workout bonus of $250,000, while carrying a cap hit of $14,801,666 and a dead cap value of $7,655,000. Contract Notes: $20.75M guaranteed at signing (2020 salary + 2021 salary + 2021 roster bonus).

Tyreke had a 2022 cap of 6 million. All of those contracts are actually shorter with outs.
Kelce signed a 4/57 in 2020. First year cap was 11 million.

For 2023 they are doable.

You're a big credit card fan aren't you?

What do you do in 1 or 2 years when you're out of easy to dump big contracts and all the money you've pushed ahead is now a balloon payment?

Restructure everyone again?

You maximize today and say screw the future if you're a legit SB contender. Not when you're in a "soft rebuild".

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ORIGINAL: fmaltes

I am not sure that firing Donatell will cure our defensive problems. First, we have one of the slowest defensive lineups in the league. Lack of speed is a general issue, but a really serious issue with the Fangio/Tomlin 3/4 scheme. Two of the players that could have helped add speed (Cine and Booth) were not available. Second, Mike Zimmer may have had issues, but he was an excellent defensive coordinator. Donatell inherited the same players that Zimmer was also not able to get to be an average defense. Two coaches both failing may suggest the primary problem are the players not the coach. Third, the Vikings did not have the right type of players for a 3/4 scheme. There was a bad fit of personnel. Even if we decide to get rid of Donatell, it might not be a bad idea to stick with the 3/4 but revamp the roster and also chose another coach that also uses the 3/4. This may not be a popular prediction on this website but I don't think they are going to fire Donatell.