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Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 7:01:31 AM)

Well, the good thing is JJM's meltdown didn't continue. Washington has a bad defense so they were what the doctor ordered. The next two opponents, Dallas and NYG, have near last place defenses. Potentially good for confidence and learning on the fly. The last game vs Detroit looks to be a better barometer of JJM's progress if the Lions need to win.



Karl Juhnke -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 7:32:42 AM)

I don’t know of it’s been discussed here. I’m not going to look back to see.

It’s a small thing, but I’d like to credit the decision to take the ball first if they win the coin toss. It may not always be the right choice. There’s something to be said about getting the ball first in the 3rd quarter, especially if you can pair it with scoring last before halftime.

But in this game it felt right to give the offense a chance to make something positive happen out of the gate and play with a lead for a change. And worst case, if it’s another 3 and out and punt, oh well it’s what everyone expected anyway.

Here was JJ commenting on it:

quote:

“That was our pillar to the game, starting fast,” McCarthy said. “For Coach O’Connell to say the offense is going to start it off for us, that was a tremendous honor. I was happy we were able to go and reassure him we’re able to do that.”



Rob Viking -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 8:15:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

There's also the CB that just won DP of the month that we traded for with Booth (another epic bust by KAM)

Yep. Every draft bust adds another over priced free agent contract.

KAM better be gone before the upcoming draft so he can't set us back any further.



Just a guess on my part but they (the Wilf's) make him fire Grigson and bring a new "football guy".

The defense has made good moves. Dallas Turner, Redmond, Rodriguez, Williams, and Rodgers have all been pretty good on defense. Hargrove and Allen have also been good pickups. I think the offense really has to get figured out but he has to play out the year. Things aren’t as bad as they look. There are very good pieces on both sides of the ball.


I would disagree on those 2. Though Hargrave made an incredible forced fumble and recovery yesterday.



Rob Viking -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 8:21:48 AM)

Finally a game where the OLine was intact playing a sullen Washington team.

JJ made some nice throws, the out to Addison was a big league throw. Let's see if he can gain some momentum going into the off season. Next week will be a good test vs an improved Cowboy defense in a playoff environment.

Nice for the D to pitch a shutout, the unit has played really well since that Chargers game.



Arlowe84 -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 11:30:05 AM)

Good baby steps for JJ

Just hard to get a read vs a God awful team who has packed it in

With JJ, its not about physical ability. Its the mental side

They will likely need to throw for some yards vs Dal, ill start to believe if he continues to show progress on the road



Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 11:35:02 AM)

That game summed up my total frustration with KOC. That was the gameplan they should've been working with all year. Run the ball and take pressure off a first year starter. Yeah, Washington stinks but still. We could be in the playoff mix if KOC had run that gameplan all year. Of course, this isn't a SB team but the playoff run would be great experience for a young QB.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 12:54:35 PM)

KOC either read our comments here about the importance of establishing a run game, short, quick, passes, or he got reality pounded into him by seeing what happened in the past 10 or 12 Vikings' games.

Did Washington pack it in, or did the Vikings take away their will ? They were getting healthy, just took Denver to OT last week (losing by a point), got Daniels and McLaurin back this week.

Glad I didn't start either Commander RBs this week, they sorta got BFLOed.



David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 12:58:56 PM)

I guarantee he did not read out comments.



Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 1:27:54 PM)

I'll believe the short passing game, running more when I see it consistently. Purple Daily guys bring up this disturbing stat all the time:


KOC - top 3-4 pass most offense and the #1 in depth of routes in the passing game.

That is insane with a first year starter.



Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 1:37:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I'll believe the short passing game, running more when I see it consistently. Purple Daily guys bring up this disturbing stat all the time:


KOC - top 3-4 pass most offense and the #1 in depth of routes in the passing game.

That is insane with a first year starter.


If you watch he actually sent all the TE on actually routes instead of just a safety net. The TE have been held in to block for the deep routes......and it isn't needed.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 1:46:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I'll believe the short passing game, running more when I see it consistently. Purple Daily guys bring up this disturbing stat all the time:


KOC - top 3-4 pass most offense and the #1 in depth of routes in the passing game.

That is insane with a first year starter.


Wonder why they keep peddling a falsehood. There might be some teams who still have a bye, but we are 23rd in passing attempts.

https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/

As for depth of routes, IDK. Same link shows 26th in 20+, 28th in 40+ passes which might be an indicator of something but is not a depth of route stat.



Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 1:48:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I'll believe the short passing game, running more when I see it consistently. Purple Daily guys bring up this disturbing stat all the time:


KOC - top 3-4 pass most offense and the #1 in depth of routes in the passing game.

That is insane with a first year starter.


Wonder why they keep peddling a falsehood. There might be some teams who still have a bye, but we are 23rd in passing attempts.

https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/

As for depth of routes, IDK. Same link shows 26th in 20+, 28th in 40+ passes which might be an indicator of something but is not a depth of route stat.


Is that Pass Attempts or Routes Ran?



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 2:06:32 PM)

Further,
Wentz over 5 games had 169 attempts. 34 per game.
JJM over 7 games has 182 attempts. 26 per game. Take out the 42 vs Balt and he is at 23 per game for his six games.

Ward this year, 440 attempts, 34 per game.


Last year for pure rookies:
Nix 567 attempts, 33 attempts per game.
Caleb 562, 33.
Daniels 480, 28.
Maye (only 13 games) 338, 26.

If anything, just on pure attempts a case could be made that JJM isn't being given enough opportunities to gain experience passing!



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 2:08:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I'll believe the short passing game, running more when I see it consistently. Purple Daily guys bring up this disturbing stat all the time:


KOC - top 3-4 pass most offense and the #1 in depth of routes in the passing game.

That is insane with a first year starter.


Wonder why they keep peddling a falsehood. There might be some teams who still have a bye, but we are 23rd in passing attempts.

https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/

As for depth of routes, IDK. Same link shows 26th in 20+, 28th in 40+ passes which might be an indicator of something but is not a depth of route stat.


Is that Pass Attempts or Routes Ran?


20+ and 40+ yard completions or attempts.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 2:15:40 PM)

As for rushing, we are 29th in rushing attempts.

That and the low pass attempt figure says we just don't run many plays.

So maybe there is something to KOC being pass happy.

Would have to compare ratios, taking out Wentz.

JJM 182 attempts. Rushing plays for his 7 games, 168.

52/48 ratio, just for JJM.

How does that compare with other teams? https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-play-pct

We are 6th at 60% but that's with Wentz. 52% passing would slot in at 29th.

So it's really low.



Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 2:23:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

As for rushing, we are 29th in rushing attempts.

That and the low pass attempt figure says we just don't run many plays.

So maybe there is something to KOC being pass happy.

Would have to compare ratios

JJM 182 attempts. Rushing plays for his 7 games?

How does that compare with other teams?


I bet there is a correlation to rushing yards---4-2 when we have over 100 yards rushing.

I was watching the Bears last night.....Benny wears down the other team by running the ball in the 2nd half. He did it with the Lions and he is now doing it with the Bears.....

KOC won't always run the ball even when it is working.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 2:33:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

As for rushing, we are 29th in rushing attempts.

That and the low pass attempt figure says we just don't run many plays.

So maybe there is something to KOC being pass happy.

Would have to compare ratios

JJM 182 attempts. Rushing plays for his 7 games?

How does that compare with other teams?


I bet there is a correlation to rushing yards---4-2 when we have over 100 yards rushing.

I was watching the Bears last night.....Benny wears down the other team by running the ball in the 2nd half. He did it with the Lions and he is now doing it with the Bears.....

KOC won't always run the ball even when it is working.


The correlation with rushing yards isn't a correlation, mostly because a team can easily tack on 6 rushes, 30 yards, etc as they milk the clock. That type of stat has to be examined say by quarter (score, rushing attempts/yards, etc).

That guy who Todd M. visited would always say that. He'd look at the boxscore and say we ran a lot and therefore won, when in fact it could have been 3 quarters of successful passing that created the lead.



Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 2:48:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

As for rushing, we are 29th in rushing attempts.

That and the low pass attempt figure says we just don't run many plays.

So maybe there is something to KOC being pass happy.

Would have to compare ratios

JJM 182 attempts. Rushing plays for his 7 games?

How does that compare with other teams?


I bet there is a correlation to rushing yards---4-2 when we have over 100 yards rushing.

I was watching the Bears last night.....Benny wears down the other team by running the ball in the 2nd half. He did it with the Lions and he is now doing it with the Bears.....

KOC won't always run the ball even when it is working.


The correlation with rushing yards isn't a correlation, mostly because a team can easily tack on 6 rushes, 30 yards, etc as they milk the clock. That type of stat has to be examined say by quarter (score, rushing attempts/yards, etc).

That guy who Todd M. visited would always say that. He'd look at the boxscore and say we ran a lot and therefore won, when in fact it could have been 3 quarters of successful passing that created the lead.


I remember getting back into the Baltimore and Chicago games by running the ball more in the 2nd half. The Detroit, Cincy, Washington, Cleveland games we ran the ball most of the game effectively...

It seems that it correlated to losses when we didn't try to run the ball or couldn't in the other 7 games.



Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 2:50:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I'll believe the short passing game, running more when I see it consistently. Purple Daily guys bring up this disturbing stat all the time:


KOC - top 3-4 pass most offense and the #1 in depth of routes in the passing game.

That is insane with a first year starter.


Wonder why they keep peddling a falsehood. There might be some teams who still have a bye, but we are 23rd in passing attempts.

https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/

As for depth of routes, IDK. Same link shows 26th in 20+, 28th in 40+ passes which might be an indicator of something but is not a depth of route stat.



Wow, that is bizarre if they are off because, to your point, they use it A LOT. By memory they said it was like Tenn, Cincy then MN (or SF, can't remember who was 3rd vs 4th).



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 2:56:12 PM)

No doubt a team can get back into games by passing more or running more. And we were smart to run against Cincy and Wash because they are both bottom feeders against the run.

Oh, the Bears passed more than they ran in the 2nd half yesterday.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 3:04:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I'll believe the short passing game, running more when I see it consistently. Purple Daily guys bring up this disturbing stat all the time:


KOC - top 3-4 pass most offense and the #1 in depth of routes in the passing game.

That is insane with a first year starter.


Wonder why they keep peddling a falsehood. There might be some teams who still have a bye, but we are 23rd in passing attempts.

https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/

As for depth of routes, IDK. Same link shows 26th in 20+, 28th in 40+ passes which might be an indicator of something but is not a depth of route stat.



Wow, that is bizarre if they are off because, to your point, they use it A LOT. By memory they said it was like Tenn, Cincy then MN (or SF, can't remember who was 3rd vs 4th).



Read on because we also don't run much which brought what I said into question. Taking the total low number of plays into account, I think the key thing as it pertains to the flow of the game and reducing the burden on JJM is that our Pass/Run ratio is low, 29th this year.

They are partially right in that we pass 60% of the time which is 6th highest. Guess KOC thought Wentz was Bledsoe.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 3:14:31 PM)

Brosmer was the inexperienced poor bastard that suffered from KOC going pass happy (granted we were down the whole game).

30 passes, 16 rushes. That 65% ratio is the 2nd highest in the league.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 3:22:30 PM)

JJMs failure so far is probably more about route complexity, poor design, still screwed up mechanics, bad mental state, etc.

Thee routes may be an issue but they are being run by good WRs. The drops affect the stats but not the eyeball test.

Anyway, 4 more games to put up some good tape.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 4:08:34 PM)

I guarantee he (KOC) did not read out comments

Only a fool would guarantee something like that.

Oh, the Bears passed more than they ran in the 2nd half yesterday.

And they lost.

Bill made a great point about the stats don't always look at WHEN the team ran the ball, which quarter, and what the score was at the time. There are a lot of things to consider when looking at running and passing ratios.



David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talkk (12/8/2025 4:16:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I guarantee he (KOC) did not read out comments

Only a fool would guarantee something like that.



We have like 10 posters. Only you would believe the Vikings are reading us for insight. We're beyond insignificant. We're a basically a water cooler at someone's job.

Especially insight that every other forum, sports talk radio/TV and columnist has also identified as a problem.



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