RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond)

RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (Full Version)

All Forums >> [The Minnesota Vikings] >> Vikes Talk

Message

kgdabom -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 12:35:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress These are facts PM career 491 TDs 219 INTs 97.2 QB rating (110 with Denver) 7.7 Yards per attempt (8.2 with Denver) PM SB I 25 or 38, 247 yards, 6.5 yards per attempt, 1 TD, 1 INT, 81.8 passer rating PM SB II 31 or 45, 333 yards, 7.4 yards per attempt, 1 TD, 1 INT, 88.5 passer rating PM SB III 34 or 49, 280 yards, 5.71 yards per attempt, 1 TD, 2 INT, 73.5 passer rating It is a fact that Manning significantly underperforms in the Super Bowl If you can't deal with facts then don't debate I don't argue that Mannings SuperBowl performances have not been as good as his average performances. Once again Good or Great ds and small sample size. I don't expect Manning to play any different in SuperBowls than any other game. Now I know there is this thing about raising your level for the big games but every player on the field should be raising their level for the big game. It should be a wash.

John Childress -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 12:36:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: RBIrving I'm a big fan of Peyton Manning and I definitely think he belongs in the discussion of best ever. I don't as much weight on the Super Bowl over the actual body of work that makes up the entire career of a football player. I thought last year's Super Bowl was a glaring example of the old adage. Offense wins games, defense wins championships. SB is wrong or right is weighted heavily Namoth yds 27663 tds 173 comp% 50.1 retire 1977 Tarkenton yds 47003 tds 342 comp% 57 retire 178 Yet Namoth got into the hall befor Tark SB was part of that injustice The other part is NYC bias Fran was a much better QB IMO

kgdabom -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 12:39:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: RBIrving I'm a big fan of Peyton Manning and I definitely think he belongs in the discussion of best ever. I don't as much weight on the Super Bowl over the actual body of work that makes up the entire career of a football player. I thought last year's Super Bowl was a glaring example of the old adage. Offense wins games, defense wins championships. SB is wrong or right is weighted heavily Namoth yds 27663 tds 173 comp% 50.1 retire 1977 Tarkenton yds 47003 tds 342 comp% 57 retire 178 Yet Namoth got into the hall befor Tark And that is a perfect example of how wrong it is to put extra weight on the SB. Tark had to face some all time great Ds in his SB appearances.

kgdabom -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 12:42:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz Agree on Peyton guys. He's in the top 5 for me, but can't go higher than that. He just hasn't played well in the big pressure games in his life for the most part. 0-4 against Florida in college and heck, even the SB they won they only beat the Pats in the AFC title game because the Pats had a rookie kicker that missed. He's just not the same guy in the big moments. Also working against Peyton at this point is the track record of old QB's winning it all. There really hasn't been an old QB that's won a SB since Elway. And he had TD as a stud and an all-time great offensive line. That was 15 years ago! We talked about this with Favre too, but I really think it may be a factor of them just wearing down a bit more over the course of 19-20 games. With really good defenses these days too. This factor also works against Brady at this point too. The older and wearing down late in season thing may have some validity to it. Still if I had my team in the SuperBowl and could take any active QB to try to win it for me Manning would be very high on the list. I would probably have Rodgers and Brees ahead of him but nobody else. RUSSELL WILSON! LMAO Didn't we just see them both perform in the Super Bowl? You guys did actually WATCH the game, right? I am laughing so hard I can barely type The excuses for Manning are endless. I would take ELI Manning for a SB before Peyton and so would anyone not smoking ganja Here you go again with the Russell Wilson WORSHIP. He is a good certainly not great QB. He was on the best team. They won. Switch Manning and Wilson for the SuperBowl and Seattle wins again. Can't be proven of course. Manning, Brees, and Rodgers are all much better QBs and certainly give their teams the best play from the QB position in order to win. Wilson happens to have the best team and TEAMS win SBs.

Rob Viking -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 12:43:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz Agree on Peyton guys. He's in the top 5 for me, but can't go higher than that. He just hasn't played well in the big pressure games in his life for the most part. 0-4 against Florida in college and heck, even the SB they won they only beat the Pats in the AFC title game because the Pats had a rookie kicker that missed. He's just not the same guy in the big moments. Also working against Peyton at this point is the track record of old QB's winning it all. There really hasn't been an old QB that's won a SB since Elway. And he had TD as a stud and an all-time great offensive line. That was 15 years ago! We talked about this with Favre too, but I really think it may be a factor of them just wearing down a bit more over the course of 19-20 games. With really good defenses these days too. This factor also works against Brady at this point too. The older and wearing down late in season thing may have some validity to it. Still if I had my team in the SuperBowl and could take any active QB to try to win it for me Manning would be very high on the list. I would probably have Rodgers and Brees ahead of him but nobody else. RUSSELL WILSON! LMAO Didn't we just see them both perform in the Super Bowl? You guys did actually WATCH the game, right? I am laughing so hard I can barely type The excuses for Manning are endless. I would take ELI Manning for a SB before Peyton and so would anyone not smoking ganja Here you go again with the Russell Wilson WORSHIP. He is a good certainly not great QB. He was on the best team. They won. Switch Manning and Wilson for the SuperBowl and Seattle wins again. Can't be proven of course. Switch Wilson with half the QBs in the NFL and they go 13-3 and win the SB.

John Childress -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 12:46:01 PM)
You weight many factors - how you play in big games will always be one of the key factors. Again, Manning is a Top 5 QB He just isn't the best and the reason is specifically because of his subpar SB performances. If Manning just performed at his average level in those games, even 2 of the 3, people would talk about him legitimately as the best. He didn't play at his career average level in ANY of them Lost 2 and the 1 he won was weak Montana's performance INCREASED in the Super Bowl and posteason His QB rating went up from 92 to 95 In the SB, he put up 100.0 127.2 115.2 147.6 against the #1 defense in the NFL that year Compare that to Petyon and you can see why Joe is #1

John Childress -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 12:47:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rob Viking quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz Agree on Peyton guys. He's in the top 5 for me, but can't go higher than that. He just hasn't played well in the big pressure games in his life for the most part. 0-4 against Florida in college and heck, even the SB they won they only beat the Pats in the AFC title game because the Pats had a rookie kicker that missed. He's just not the same guy in the big moments. Also working against Peyton at this point is the track record of old QB's winning it all. There really hasn't been an old QB that's won a SB since Elway. And he had TD as a stud and an all-time great offensive line. That was 15 years ago! We talked about this with Favre too, but I really think it may be a factor of them just wearing down a bit more over the course of 19-20 games. With really good defenses these days too. This factor also works against Brady at this point too. The older and wearing down late in season thing may have some validity to it. Still if I had my team in the SuperBowl and could take any active QB to try to win it for me Manning would be very high on the list. I would probably have Rodgers and Brees ahead of him but nobody else. RUSSELL WILSON! LMAO Didn't we just see them both perform in the Super Bowl? You guys did actually WATCH the game, right? I am laughing so hard I can barely type The excuses for Manning are endless. I would take ELI Manning for a SB before Peyton and so would anyone not smoking ganja Here you go again with the Russell Wilson WORSHIP. He is a good certainly not great QB. He was on the best team. They won. Switch Manning and Wilson for the SuperBowl and Seattle wins again. Can't be proven of course. Switch Wilson with half the QBs in the NFL and they go 13-3 and win the SB. ha ah funny Let's make up imaginary scenarios I stay in reality IN the REAL WORLD, Wilson was clearly better in the big game. Must really burn you that you have to make up imaginary scenarios LMAO

John Childress -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 12:48:30 PM)
Manning 25 or 38, 247 yards, 6.5 yards per attempt, 1 TD, 1 INT, 81.8 passer rating 31 or 45, 333 yards, 7.4 yards per attempt, 1 TD, 1 INT, 88.5 passer rating 34 or 49, 280 yards, 5.71 yards per attempt, 1 TD, 2 INT, 73.5 passer rating Montana 100.0 127.2 115.2 147.6 against the #1 defense in the NFL that year FACTS Try them sometimes

John Childress -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 12:49:54 PM)
FANTASY LAND Switch Wilson with half the QBs in the NFL and they go 13-3 and win the SB. Switch Manning with half the QBs in the NFL and the Colts win one SB. Yeah, I can play dumb as shit what ifs also

Rob Viking -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 12:51:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress quote: ORIGINAL: Rob Viking quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz Agree on Peyton guys. He's in the top 5 for me, but can't go higher than that. He just hasn't played well in the big pressure games in his life for the most part. 0-4 against Florida in college and heck, even the SB they won they only beat the Pats in the AFC title game because the Pats had a rookie kicker that missed. He's just not the same guy in the big moments. Also working against Peyton at this point is the track record of old QB's winning it all. There really hasn't been an old QB that's won a SB since Elway. And he had TD as a stud and an all-time great offensive line. That was 15 years ago! We talked about this with Favre too, but I really think it may be a factor of them just wearing down a bit more over the course of 19-20 games. With really good defenses these days too. This factor also works against Brady at this point too. The older and wearing down late in season thing may have some validity to it. Still if I had my team in the SuperBowl and could take any active QB to try to win it for me Manning would be very high on the list. I would probably have Rodgers and Brees ahead of him but nobody else. RUSSELL WILSON! LMAO Didn't we just see them both perform in the Super Bowl? You guys did actually WATCH the game, right? I am laughing so hard I can barely type The excuses for Manning are endless. I would take ELI Manning for a SB before Peyton and so would anyone not smoking ganja Here you go again with the Russell Wilson WORSHIP. He is a good certainly not great QB. He was on the best team. They won. Switch Manning and Wilson for the SuperBowl and Seattle wins again. Can't be proven of course. Switch Wilson with half the QBs in the NFL and they go 13-3 and win the SB. ha ah funny Let's make up imaginary scenarios I stay in reality IN the REAL WORLD, Wilson was clearly better in the big game. Must really burn you that you have to make up imaginary scenarios LMAO Wilson didn't have to do anything in that game until the game was out of reach. I don't blame him no need to throw when your dominating but lets not act like he had to make that many plays.

kgdabom -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 12:53:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress quote: ORIGINAL: Rob Viking quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: djskillz Agree on Peyton guys. He's in the top 5 for me, but can't go higher than that. He just hasn't played well in the big pressure games in his life for the most part. 0-4 against Florida in college and heck, even the SB they won they only beat the Pats in the AFC title game because the Pats had a rookie kicker that missed. He's just not the same guy in the big moments. Also working against Peyton at this point is the track record of old QB's winning it all. There really hasn't been an old QB that's won a SB since Elway. And he had TD as a stud and an all-time great offensive line. That was 15 years ago! We talked about this with Favre too, but I really think it may be a factor of them just wearing down a bit more over the course of 19-20 games. With really good defenses these days too. This factor also works against Brady at this point too. The older and wearing down late in season thing may have some validity to it. Still if I had my team in the SuperBowl and could take any active QB to try to win it for me Manning would be very high on the list. I would probably have Rodgers and Brees ahead of him but nobody else. RUSSELL WILSON! LMAO Didn't we just see them both perform in the Super Bowl? You guys did actually WATCH the game, right? I am laughing so hard I can barely type The excuses for Manning are endless. I would take ELI Manning for a SB before Peyton and so would anyone not smoking ganja Here you go again with the Russell Wilson WORSHIP. He is a good certainly not great QB. He was on the best team. They won. Switch Manning and Wilson for the SuperBowl and Seattle wins again. Can't be proven of course. Switch Wilson with half the QBs in the NFL and they go 13-3 and win the SB. ha ah funny Let's make up imaginary scenarios I stay in reality IN the REAL WORLD, Wilson was clearly better in the big game. Must really burn you that you have to make up imaginary scenarios LMAO JC you can have Wilson. OK you can worship him. Bottom line is there are 3QBs in the league that without doubt are better. There are another maybe 7 that are arguably as good or better. I like Wilson. Good QB. Wilson did not win the SB for the Seahawks. The team won it.

kgdabom -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 12:57:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress You weight many factors - how you play in big games will always be one of the key factors. Again, Manning is a Top 5 QB He just isn't the best and the reason is specifically because of his subpar SB performances. If Manning just performed at his average level in those games, even 2 of the 3, people would talk about him legitimately as the best. He didn't play at his career average level in ANY of them Lost 2 and the 1 he won was weak Montana's performance INCREASED in the Super Bowl and posteason His QB rating went up from 92 to 95 In the SB, he put up 100.0 127.2 115.2 147.6 against the #1 defense in the NFL that year Compare that to Petyon and you can see why Joe is #1 Montana did very well in SBs. Good for him. That doesn't mean that Manning is going to play poorly if he makes it to the SB again. You take it as a given that Manning is going to play poorly in the SB because there is something in his makeup that says "this is the biggest game. I have to go out and play poorly now". I just don't believe that is true.

Rob Viking -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 12:58:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress You weight many factors - how you play in big games will always be one of the key factors. Again, Manning is a Top 5 QB He just isn't the best and the reason is specifically because of his subpar SB performances. If Manning just performed at his average level in those games, even 2 of the 3, people would talk about him legitimately as the best. He didn't play at his career average level in ANY of them Lost 2 and the 1 he won was weak Montana's performance INCREASED in the Super Bowl and posteason His QB rating went up from 92 to 95 In the SB, he put up 100.0 127.2 115.2 147.6 against the #1 defense in the NFL that year Compare that to Petyon and you can see why Joe is #1 Montana was great in the SB no doubt. I don't think it was a matter of Joe elevating his game to amazing heights, his teams clicked. Peyton and his offenses were a little out of sync especially last season. I personally rate Peyton #1 all time, I'd even have Steve Young on par with Montana tbh. His body of work and consistency shouldn't be severely diminished because of playoff and SB failures several of which were out of his control.

Rob Viking -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 1:00:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress FANTASY LAND Switch Wilson with half the QBs in the NFL and they go 13-3 and win the SB. Switch Manning with half the QBs in the NFL and the Colts win one SB. Yeah, I can play dumb as shit what ifs also Switch Manning with half the QBs in the league and the Colts are a lottery team with perhaps 1 playoff appearance. At least we have proof of that with a bottom 5 QB for one season at least.

kgdabom -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 1:01:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rob Viking quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress You weight many factors - how you play in big games will always be one of the key factors. Again, Manning is a Top 5 QB He just isn't the best and the reason is specifically because of his subpar SB performances. If Manning just performed at his average level in those games, even 2 of the 3, people would talk about him legitimately as the best. He didn't play at his career average level in ANY of them Lost 2 and the 1 he won was weak Montana's performance INCREASED in the Super Bowl and posteason His QB rating went up from 92 to 95 In the SB, he put up 100.0 127.2 115.2 147.6 against the #1 defense in the NFL that year Compare that to Petyon and you can see why Joe is #1 Montana was great in the SB no doubt. I don't think it was a matter of Joe elevating his game to amazing heights, his teams clicked. Peyton and his offenses were a little out of sync especially last season. I personally rate Peyton #1 all time, I'd even have Steve Young on par with Montana tbh. His body of work and consistency shouldn't be severely diminished because of playoff and SB failures several of which were out of his control. Vikings destroyed Montana one playoff game. Personally I love Tark and have his as a very similar QB to Montana. I bet Montana watched a lot of Tark growing up and modeled his game after him.

kgdabom -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 1:02:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rob Viking quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress FANTASY LAND Switch Wilson with half the QBs in the NFL and they go 13-3 and win the SB. Switch Manning with half the QBs in the NFL and the Colts win one SB. Yeah, I can play dumb as shit what ifs also Switch Manning with half the QBs in the league and the Colts are a lottery team with perhaps 1 playoff appearance. At least we have proof of that with a bottom 5 QB for one season at least. Great point. Take Manning away and what was their record? 1-15 or something like that. Take Wilson away from Seattle and I don't think that happens.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 1:07:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Rob Viking quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress FANTASY LAND Switch Wilson with half the QBs in the NFL and they go 13-3 and win the SB. Switch Manning with half the QBs in the NFL and the Colts win one SB. Yeah, I can play dumb as shit what ifs also Switch Manning with half the QBs in the league and the Colts are a lottery team with perhaps 1 playoff appearance. At least we have proof of that with a bottom 5 QB for one season at least. Great point. Take Manning away and what was their record? 1-15 or something like that. Take Wilson away from Seattle and I don't think that happens. Manning away from the Colts, and the Colts sucked for Luck. Wilson away from the Seahawks, they don't win 13, but they still win a lot. Wilson does what is asked, don't make mistakes, make the big throw when necessary. Lead. He could be on the cusp of greatly elevating his game though.

kgdabom -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 1:17:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Rob Viking quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress FANTASY LAND Switch Wilson with half the QBs in the NFL and they go 13-3 and win the SB. Switch Manning with half the QBs in the NFL and the Colts win one SB. Yeah, I can play dumb as shit what ifs also Switch Manning with half the QBs in the league and the Colts are a lottery team with perhaps 1 playoff appearance. At least we have proof of that with a bottom 5 QB for one season at least. Great point. Take Manning away and what was their record? 1-15 or something like that. Take Wilson away from Seattle and I don't think that happens. Manning away from the Colts, and the Colts sucked for Luck. Wilson away from the Seahawks, they don't win 13, but they still win a lot. Wilson does what is asked, don't make mistakes, make the big throw when necessary. Lead. He could be on the cusp of greatly elevating his game though. I would like to see the Seahawks open it up a bit. I would love to see them get Harvin very involved in the offense. It will be interesting to see if Wilson can keep up the efficiency with higher volume. If the Seahawks remain playoff contenders for the next 12 years with Wilson at the helm I will gain more respect for him and Pete Carroll. I know Wilson is good. He hasn't given me any indication of being great but maybe he can be great.

John Childress -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 1:19:35 PM)
For a QB I care far more about him making smart plays under pressure We set records in 98 and 09 but our QBs couldn't get it done when it counted A guy like Brad Johnson, who I once SHUNNED, got it done when it counted for TB I have had enough great offensive stats If Russell Wilson keeps it up like this he will be great.

Troy Newell -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 1:21:05 PM)
You can't use strictly stats and or Superbowl victories to point to who is and who is not a good QB. That completely discounts the players who help them compile those stats and superbowl wins. IE, IF Archie Manning and Terry Bradshaw were on the opposite teams......do you think Bradshaw would have on a single superbowl as qb of the saints? let alone win 4 of them?

RBIrving -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 1:22:04 PM)
Please notice I did not say Peyton was the best ever, I simply said he belongs in the conversation. Montana is hard to overlook as the best, even more so because he played on arguably the best offense in the history of the NFL. I have 7 reasons to discount the value of the Super Bowl in the discussion as to who is the best. Trent Dilfer Jim Plunkett Doug Williams Jeff Hostetler Mark Rypien Brad Johnson Joe Namath All these guys have Super Bowl rings and not a single one of them deserves to be in the conversation as to who is the best. Never forget that football is a team sport and no game is won or lost based on the play of a single player. Peyton Manning is a throwback as he is truly a general on the field, he directs the offense from the field of play. If the choice is this season is between Eli and Peyton there's simply no doubt that Eli is clearly done and that remains to be seen with Peyton.

kgdabom -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 1:24:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress For a QB I care far more about him making smart plays under pressure We set records in 98 and 09 but our QBs couldn't get it done when it counted A guy like Brad Johnson, who I once SHUNNED, got it done when it counted for TB I have had enough great offensive stats If Russell Wilson keeps it up like this he will be great. In 98 Cunningham was injured in the final game and should have been replaced by the guy you mentioned Brad Johnson. I don't think Johnson had much to do with Tampa's title. I agree with you regarding this comment on Wilson. If he can keep it up for 10 years or more with this level of efficiency I will call him great. Not on Manning's level but still great.

John Childress -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 1:47:08 PM)
Stats versus Winning THere are 12 QBs with more career passing yards than Joe Montana. He is 11th in passing TDs so what? Funny how Brady was winning Super Bowls when he was passing less?

RBIrving -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 1:50:02 PM)
Funny how Brady was winning Super Bowls until the Pats got caught cheating and had to clean up their act, how many since then?

RBIrving -> RE: Predictions for Next Week (and maybe beyond) (9/4/2014 1:51:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Childress Stats versus Winning THere are 12 QBs with more career passing yards than Joe Montana. He is 11th in passing TDs so what? Funny how Brady was winning Super Bowls when he was passing less? Stats simply don't tell the whole story, neither does winning Super Bowls or are you really gonna consider Bradshaw as one of the best ever?

Page: << < prev 126 127 [128] 129 130 next > >>

Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5.5 Unicode