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Todd M -> RE:NFL News (11/10/2007 2:31:19 PM)

[quote="John Childress"][quote="Lynn G."]As appalling as that story is (and I remember reading it a couple of years ago), I think I'd hesitate to put his deed in the same category as Ray Lewis'.[/quote] Why? You don't consider sexual assault a major crime or you don't believe the victim? Ray Lewis didn't kill anyone. He was an accessory afer the fact. I would say that is in the same league, if you believe her story.[/quote] Wow. What Ray Lewis did was deemed far far worse by you than what Vick did yet what Manning allegedly did compares with Lewis?



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/10/2007 4:28:32 PM)

[quote="Todd Mallett"][quote="John Childress"][quote="Lynn G."]As appalling as that story is (and I remember reading it a couple of years ago), I think I'd hesitate to put his deed in the same category as Ray Lewis'.[/quote] Why? You don't consider sexual assault a major crime or you don't believe the victim? Ray Lewis didn't kill anyone. He was an accessory afer the fact. I would say that is in the same league, if you believe her story.[/quote] Wow. What Ray Lewis did was deemed far far worse by you than what Vick did yet what Manning allegedly did compares with Lewis?[/quote] I consider sexually abusing women to be a major crime. I am funny like that. If Lewis had of participated in the planning or execution of the murders then I would put him at a much worse level. Accessory after the fact of the most serious crime is about equal to being the perpetrator of the next level down. Vick? Dogs? Please - doesn't compare to sexual assault or murder



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/10/2007 4:29:02 PM)

FUnny how everyone just glosses over what Manning did.



Todd M -> RE:NFL News (11/10/2007 4:39:48 PM)

There is murder in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd degree, sexual assault can be looked at in degrees as well. Whatever is next to the last degree is where I would put Manning. Not saying that it doesn't warrant some action taken but what Vick did was a million times worse than what we're talking about with Manning. Surprisingly we agree on more topics than you would think. This obviously isn't one of them. No need for this to turn ugly. (not saying that it has this time) I think I have a pretty good gauge for these sort of things. You disagree, not the end of the world.



cthusky -> RE:NFL News (11/10/2007 4:44:00 PM)

[quote="Todd Mallett"]There is murder in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd degree, sexual assault can be looked at in degrees as well. Whatever is next to the last degree is where I would put Manning. Not saying that it doesn't warrant some action taken but what Vick did was a million times worse than what we're talking about with Manning. Surprisingly we agree on more topics than you would think. This obviously isn't one of them. No need for this to turn ugly. (not saying that it has this time) I think I have a pretty good gauge for these sort of things. You disagree, not the end of the world.[/quote] Pretty hard to defend someone who slaughters dogs, for sure. But I think I am with JC on this one, especially when you consider these players as possible role models. Sexual assault (especially rampant in the NFL) should not be glossed over for fairly obvious reasons. Killing dogs--absolutely not good, but I don't think that dog-killing -fighting is a national problem in the USA as is violence against women.



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/10/2007 4:55:50 PM)

No one is defending what Vick did - that is a misconception. What he did was wrong 100X But, if forced to choose, I would much rather my child be guilty of cruelty to animals than woman.



Todd M -> RE:NFL News (11/10/2007 5:05:40 PM)

If this was ever being debated as a whole then I wouldn't be arguing that going after dog fighters should take precedence over tackling drunk driving or violence against women. Or that dog fighting was a bigger issue. But looking at the individual acts I think you have to put Vick above Manning. Way way above, a bit above Lewis, but definitely below drunk driving tragedies, premeditated murder and violence towards women.



cthusky -> RE:NFL News (11/10/2007 5:23:48 PM)

[quote="Todd Mallett"]If this was ever being debated as a whole then I wouldn't be arguing that going after dog fighters should take precedence over tackling drunk driving or violence against women. Or that dog fighting was a bigger issue. But looking at the individual acts I think you have to put Vick above Manning. Way way above, a bit above Lewis, but definitely below drunk driving tragedies, premeditated murder and violence towards women.[/quote] Geez, I don't know. It's hard to measure crimes and vile acts. Of these guys, I think that Lewis is the worst by a mile. "Obstruction of justice" was a plea, and he really didn't even have to say much against his friends, who committed the double homicide (!!!!!!). I think that not making an example of Manning--or even reporting it much in the national media--the NFL sends a real message about hostility to women to fans. By the way, I realize no one is trying to defend Vick.



Jim Frenette -> RE:NFL News (11/10/2007 6:00:15 PM)

Lewis was let off easy by being charged with Obstruction. He was there when it happened and should have been charged with accessory to the murder. They were his guys and for all we know, he could have stopped it from happening.



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/10/2007 8:41:57 PM)

[quote="Jim Frenette"]Lewis was let off easy by being charged with Obstruction. He was there when it happened and should have been charged with accessory to the murder. They were his guys and for all we know, he could have stopped it from happening.[/quote] That would make him a murderer and much worse than the other two (in my book)



Steve Lentz -> RE:NFL News (11/10/2007 11:29:07 PM)

[quote="John Childress"][quote="Jim Frenette"]Lewis was let off easy by being charged with Obstruction. He was there when it happened and should have been charged with accessory to the murder. They were his guys and for all we know, he could have stopped it from happening.[/quote] That would make him a murderer and much worse than the other two (in my book)[/quote] As I said I can't believe posters compare the two. :whistling:



Guest -> RE:NFL News (11/11/2007 4:59:04 AM)

The big difference between these situations is that Manning's wasn't prosecuted or highly covered by the media. His was covered up. And he and his family taking shots at the alleged victim is real classy too.



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/11/2007 2:49:15 PM)

[quote="Pete C"]The big difference between these situations is that Manning's wasn't prosecuted or highly covered by the media. His was covered up. And he and his family taking shots at the alleged victim is real classy too.[/quote] You hit the nail on the head. Not only wasn't he not prosecuted, but he actually went after the victim! NOw he is the poster boy for the NFL. Still people refuse to say a bad word about him.



Steve Lentz -> RE:NFL News (11/11/2007 6:14:16 PM)

Dwayne Bowe has been very quiet the last few weeks. I'm picking the Chiefs but I wonder if their WR's will be shut down.



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/11/2007 11:18:56 PM)

9 catches for 105 yards but they still got beat Bowe is a solid WR - best in the draft so far Man, I wish we had of traded up for Cutler



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/12/2007 12:00:31 AM)

Eli is showing more heart this year but he is not an accurate passer like his brother. Man, WARE for Williamson!!!!



djskillz -> RE:NFL News (11/12/2007 12:02:43 AM)

Eli still sucks. If they didn't have Plax, he would have been benched LONG ago.



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/12/2007 3:45:29 PM)

Good point You see what happens when Burress is injured He and Shockey bail Eli out



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/12/2007 4:32:47 PM)

If the season ended today: NFC 1. Dallas 2. Green Bay 3. Tampa Bay 4. Seattle 5. NYG 6. Lions AFC 1. New England 2. Pittsburgh 3. Indianapolis 4. San Diego 5. Jacksonville 6. Tennessee



Guest -> RE:NFL News (11/12/2007 4:49:42 PM)

[quote="John Childress"]Eli is showing more heart this year but he is not an accurate passer like his brother. Man, WARE for Williamson!!!![/quote] ************************************************* It must be frustrating to be a Giants fan. Every once in a while Manning makes some great throws, then he usually follows that up with a series of awful throws. Just no consistency in his game. I'd still trade our entire starting DLine for him.



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/12/2007 5:09:46 PM)

I don't know how many of our defensive linemen would even make their team. They 4 guys with more sacks than our best guy.



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/12/2007 5:58:19 PM)

The excuses for Manning are endless http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3106045



Cheesehead Craig -> RE:NFL News (11/12/2007 6:42:14 PM)

The Colts simply don't have any depth. You can only live off of 2 WRs and a TE for so long. Injuries happen, and if you spend all your $ on starting talent, and they get hurt, you suffer the consequences.



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/12/2007 7:09:07 PM)

I think that game also showed how ordinary Manning is with Vikings-level WRs and TEs. Far too much credit is given to individual players or coaches. Manning had a very good OC in Tom Moore his entire career. He also has been blessed with Pro Bowl skill players his whole career. Even as a rookie he had Faulk and Harrison! Plus, I hate all the commercials on this guy



Steve Lentz -> RE:NFL News (11/12/2007 7:19:09 PM)

Believe it or not. Vince Young 5.8 yards per pass. 139 yards a game. 4 Td passes 10 interceptions. 62.2 QB rating.



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