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Duane Sampson -> RE:NFL News (11/15/2007 7:14:23 PM)

Where have all the good QBs gone? Ian O'Connor Special to FOXSports.com, Updated 16 hours ago On Sept. 23, 2001, I was standing 20 yards from the spot where Mo Lewis delivered the hit on Drew Bledsoe that would bring the NFL to its knees. With Bledsoe bleeding internally and his scarecrow of a backup trotting onto the field, I turned to a credentialed colleague on the Patriots' sideline and said the following: "Tom Brady? This guy stinks." He could barely hold off Drew Henson at Michigan, after all. There were reasons Bledsoe was working on a $103 million contract while Brady was getting by on a $298,000 wage. Compromised by a sheared blood vessel, the Patriots appeared booked for a 3-13 season. Nobody could see Bledsoe in the role of Wally Pipp back then, not even Bill Belichick. But six years later, the old Jets linebacker, Morris "Mo" C. Lewis, represents as significant a reason as any that the quarterback play in today's NFL isn't an unmitigated disaster, a cross between the Hindenburg and the Exxon Valdez. Lewis and a couple of football men named Dick Rehbein and Jim Hess. The quarterbacks coach for the Patriots, Rehbein pushed his employer hard to take Brady with the 199th pick of the 2000 draft. A college scout for the Cowboys, Hess implored his employer to take a shot on an undrafted free agent out of Eastern Illinois named Tony Romo three years later. Now close your eyes, remove Brady and Romo from your field on any given Sunday, and what do you see? I see Peyton Manning and a flowering crisis at quarterback in the NFL. Which makes absolutely no sense. Quarterback remains a bright-lights, big-bucks proposition, the one job in pro football that offers the kind of guaranteed deals scored by shortstops and shooting guards. The man who occupies that position is almost always the face and voice of the franchise. Long before Romo started appearing with an endless parade of starlets, it was understood that the quarterback always got the girl. So why does it seem that the sport can't find 32 competent players to take the snaps, weather the blitzes and throw the requisite spirals? OK, injuries have depleted the ranks. Quarterbacks deal with more occupational hazards than their teammates. They are a bruised, battered, oft-concussed lot. But that can't fully explain the lack of presence, charisma and talent that defines so many starters and regular contributors at that position. Brooks Bollinger. Joey Harrington. J.P. Losman. Josh McCown. The two-headed mediocrity of the Midway known as Brex Griese-man. Is anyone supposed to get excited about the youth movement switches from Chad Pennington to Kellen Clemens, from Damon Huard to Brodie Croyle? Does the return of Kyle Boller get your blood flowing? How pumped are you about the long-term prospects of Trent Edwards and Cleo Lemon? Personally, I can't watch another down of football played by Alex Smith. He was only the No. 1 overall pick in the 2005 draft, a bonus baby who commanded a $49.5 million deal. Smith has thrown 193 passes for the 49ers this season, two for touchdowns, leaving him with a quarterback rating of 57.2. Little help can be offered by the Jurassic set, the Vinny Testaverdes, Kurt Warners and Steve McNairs, dinosaurs one blind-side hit away from extinction. Of course, Brett Favre is still slinging it in Green Bay, padding his Hall of Fame stats. But despite the Packers' record and the weekly images of their Old Man Winter running about with his clenched fists in the air, Favre is still a golfer putting out on the 18th green. The younger generation of stars? Ben Roethlisberger is approaching his old championship form, and Vince Young is clearly a big-talent keeper. Carson Palmer is one No. 1 overall pick who was worth the investment, but the same can't be said — not yet, anyway — of Eli Manning. All in all, there just aren't enough very good quarterbacks to go around. And without enough very good quarterbacks, pro football isn't easy on the eyes. When I watch the NFL these days, I often feel the way I did when I watched the NBA Finals in 1994, the year Michael Jordan went off to play minor-league baseball. Knicks-Rockets was an all-out assault on the senses, a seven-game series with no redeeming aesthetic value. Defense wins championships and loses something in the process: Pro football is reduced to a sour science when quarterbacks can't move the ball. Maybe defensive coordinators have gotten too smart. Maybe defensive ends and tackles have gotten too big and fast. Or maybe the people paid to develop and evaluate quarterbacks are doing a lousy job of developing and evaluating them. Consider that Brady, who might go down among the five greatest quarterbacks of all time, was drafted after the likes of Gio Carmazzi, Chris Redman, Tee Martin and Spergon Wynn. Consider that Romo, an improvisational genius, didn't rank among the 13 draft-worthy quarterbacks of 2003, a list including Dave Ragone, Brian St. Pierre, Henson and Gibran Hamdan. So a debt of gratitude is owed to the late Rehbein of the Patriots and the retired Hess of the Cowboys. Against the grain of conventional wisdom, Rehbein was the one who predicted to his wife, among others, that Brady would someday be the equal of Joe Montana. The Patriots finally called Rehbein's bluff in the sixth round. Three years later, Hess was selling the merits of a barely known Eastern Illinois quarterback to Bill Parcells in Dallas. Hess had watched Romo at the pre-draft combine. Sean Payton, the Cowboys offensive coordinator at the time, was also impressed by Romo, but there was a catch: Payton was a former quarterback at Eastern Illinois, and some Dallas officials were wondering if this was his idea of an alumni donation. The Cowboys offered the undrafted Romo $10,000 to sign on Hess's recommendation. And thank heavens they did. Imagine the NFC without Romo. Imagine the NFL with Brady buried on another team's bench, waiting for a Mo Lewis hit to liberate him. Go ahead. I'd rather not.




So.Mn.Fan -> RE:NFL News (11/15/2007 7:36:09 PM)

Great stuff. The level of QB play has reached an all-time low in my (long) lifetime. Goes from 2 or 3 "excellent", 0 "good" and the rest at "fair to poor". Puzzling. Are they making things too complicated for the younger guys, or what? There seems to be no flow or improvisation skills on the bad ones, they are so programmed they just can't function normally. To get that job, most have good arms, decent mobility, and a background. But lately, they get in these "systems" and come out too freaked out to simply do the little things. Just my opinion.




cthusky -> RE:NFL News (11/15/2007 8:07:15 PM)

[quote="So.Mn.Fan"]Great stuff. The level of QB play has reached an all-time low in my (long) lifetime. Goes from 2 or 3 "excellent", 0 "good" and the rest at "fair to poor". Puzzling. Are they making things too complicated for the younger guys, or what? There seems to be no flow or improvisation skills on the bad ones, they are so programmed they just can't function normally. To get that job, most have good arms, decent mobility, and a background. But lately, they get in these "systems" and come out too freaked out to simply do the little things. Just my opinion.[/quote] I don't know about this. Compared to the other professional sports, football is not so bad. Who would want to watch a baseball or basketball game with the also-rans playing????? Go Vikes! :viking:




John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/15/2007 9:09:00 PM)

The reason the QB play has reached an all time low is the rule changes and rule interpretation changes that have overempasized the passing game. Teams pass too much and it exposes QBs to more injuries. Also, some guys simply can't throw for 200+ yards a game. Look at these numbers: They are Super Bowl WINNING numbers by guys with names like Namath, Bradshaw, Theisman, Staubach, etc. These are actual SB stat lines. CMP ATT PYD PTD INT 9 14 96 1 0 9 19 209 2 0 17 28 206 0 0 15 23 143 2 2 12 19 119 2 0




cthusky -> RE:NFL News (11/15/2007 9:31:35 PM)

[quote="John Childress"]The reason the QB play has reached an all time low is the rule changes and rule interpretation changes that have overempasized the passing game. Teams pass too much and it exposes QBs to more injuries. Also, some guys simply can't throw for 200+ yards a game. Look at these numbers: They are Super Bowl WINNING numbers by guys with names like Namath, Bradshaw, Theisman, Staubach, etc. These are actual SB stat lines. CMP ATT PYD PTD INT 9 14 96 1 0 9 19 209 2 0 17 28 206 0 0 15 23 143 2 2 12 19 119 2 0[/quote] The rule changes reward poorly thrown, long passes. If I were an offenseive coordinator, I would have my qb throw a long pass--but slightly underthrow it so that the receiver has to come back for it. The defensive back has no idea where the ball is going--a collision is a likely possibility, and then a flag is thrown for defensive interference. Happens time and again in today's game.




Cheesehead Craig -> RE:NFL News (11/15/2007 10:30:48 PM)

[quote="John Childress"]The reason the QB play has reached an all time low is the rule changes and rule interpretation changes that have overempasized the passing game. Teams pass too much and it exposes QBs to more injuries. Also, some guys simply can't throw for 200+ yards a game. Look at these numbers: They are Super Bowl WINNING numbers by guys with names like Namath, Bradshaw, Theisman, Staubach, etc. These are actual SB stat lines. CMP ATT PYD PTD INT 9 14 96 1 0 9 19 209 2 0 17 28 206 0 0 15 23 143 2 2 12 19 119 2 0[/quote] I don't know if it's the rules that have caused the poor QB play. I think it's poor actual QB development in college that is happening. The "systems" in college where the QB's don't have to think and read as much but rather, they know ahead of time who is going to be open on a given play. The mismatches in college are much greater between DBs and WRs and it heavily favors the offenses. Thus, you get guys who put up big numbers and scouts get enamored with them. They get to the pros and suddenly they have to learn to read defenses and they have to go through progressions which they haven't ever had to before. They don't have the mismatches any longer and then they are screwed. Plus, I don't think the QB development is all that great in the pros either. There are only a handful of real good QB coaches (whether they are HCs or OCs) in the league.




Trekgeekscott -> RE:NFL News (11/16/2007 12:13:13 AM)

[quote="Cheesehead Craig"][quote="John Childress"]The reason the QB play has reached an all time low is the rule changes and rule interpretation changes that have overempasized the passing game. Teams pass too much and it exposes QBs to more injuries. Also, some guys simply can't throw for 200+ yards a game. Look at these numbers: They are Super Bowl WINNING numbers by guys with names like Namath, Bradshaw, Theisman, Staubach, etc. These are actual SB stat lines. CMP ATT PYD PTD INT 9 14 96 1 0 9 19 209 2 0 17 28 206 0 0 15 23 143 2 2 12 19 119 2 0[/quote] I don't know if it's the rules that have caused the poor QB play. I think it's poor actual QB development in college that is happening. The "systems" in college where the QB's don't have to think and read as much but rather, they know ahead of time who is going to be open on a given play. The mismatches in college are much greater between DBs and WRs and it heavily favors the offenses. Thus, you get guys who put up big numbers and scouts get enamored with them. They get to the pros and suddenly they have to learn to read defenses and they have to go through progressions which they haven't ever had to before. They don't have the mismatches any longer and then they are screwed. Plus, I don't think the QB development is all that great in the pros either. There are only a handful of real good QB coaches (whether they are HCs or OCs) in the league.[/quote] Add to that the rush to get drafted QBs on the field (exacerbated by the poor developement of previous QBs) and the developement curve is shot. Most QBs coming out of college 30 years ago wouldn't have sniffed the field for at least 3 years. They had years to watch and learn. Now the Rookies drafted in the first round are often called upon to lead their team to glory before the end of their first season, long before they are ready. The need for immediate success is overwhelming and these kids just aren't ready for the pressure that is suddenly on them. If Scott Pioli stays with the Pats (and they would be fools to let him go), he would be wise to draft a QB high in the draft in the next couple of years and let him sit an learn behind a QB who will be one of the all time greats by the time all is said and done. QB evaluation is to heavily focused on some of the physical skills these guys have. OOOOOOO he runs really fast! Who cares? you really don't want your QB running that often. and only to get a first down. OOOOO he has a really strong arm... and? Throwing it really far didn't help Vick, or Leftwich, or Boller, ...get the picture. A smart guy who learns fast, with a quick release, accurate passer with good decision making abilities, who don't tend to get flustered under pressure, are usually going to turn into your better QBs. Look at Brady. not the strongest arm, Not the most mobile, but he's accurate, smart and doesn't fold under pressure. Manning actually has the strong arm, but he is accurate, smart and doesn't fold under pressure. Interesting that they are the best QBs in the NFL right now.




Steve Lentz -> RE:NFL News (11/17/2007 4:25:02 AM)

[quote="Trekgeekscott"][quote="Cheesehead Craig"][quote="John Childress"]The reason the QB play has reached an all time low is the rule changes and rule interpretation changes that have overempasized the passing game. Teams pass too much and it exposes QBs to more injuries. Also, some guys simply can't throw for 200+ yards a game. Look at these numbers: They are Super Bowl WINNING numbers by guys with names like Namath, Bradshaw, Theisman, Staubach, etc. These are actual SB stat lines. CMP ATT PYD PTD INT 9 14 96 1 0 9 19 209 2 0 17 28 206 0 0 15 23 143 2 2 12 19 119 2 0[/quote] I don't know if it's the rules that have caused the poor QB play. I think it's poor actual QB development in college that is happening. The "systems" in college where the QB's don't have to think and read as much but rather, they know ahead of time who is going to be open on a given play. The mismatches in college are much greater between DBs and WRs and it heavily favors the offenses. Thus, you get guys who put up big numbers and scouts get enamored with them. They get to the pros and suddenly they have to learn to read defenses and they have to go through progressions which they haven't ever had to before. They don't have the mismatches any longer and then they are screwed. Plus, I don't think the QB development is all that great in the pros either. There are only a handful of real good QB coaches (whether they are HCs or OCs) in the league.[/quote] Add to that the rush to get drafted QBs on the field (exacerbated by the poor developement of previous QBs) and the developement curve is shot. Most QBs coming out of college 30 years ago wouldn't have sniffed the field for at least 3 years. They had years to watch and learn. Now the Rookies drafted in the first round are often called upon to lead their team to glory before the end of their first season, long before they are ready. The need for immediate success is overwhelming and these kids just aren't ready for the pressure that is suddenly on them. If Scott Pioli stays with the Pats (and they would be fools to let him go), he would be wise to draft a QB high in the draft in the next couple of years and let him sit an learn behind a QB who will be one of the all time greats by the time all is said and done. QB evaluation is to heavily focused on some of the physical skills these guys have. OOOOOOO he runs really fast! Who cares? you really don't want your QB running that often. and only to get a first down. OOOOO he has a really strong arm... and? Throwing it really far didn't help Vick, or Leftwich, or Boller, ...get the picture. A smart guy who learns fast, with a quick release, accurate passer with good decision making abilities, who don't tend to get flustered under pressure, are usually going to turn into your better QBs. Look at Brady. not the strongest arm, Not the most mobile, but he's accurate, smart and doesn't fold under pressure. Manning actually has the strong arm, but he is accurate, smart and doesn't fold under pressure. Interesting that they are the best QBs in the NFL right now.[/quote] That last paragraph reminds me why I want Ryan so much. ;)




Chicken Legs -> RE:NFL News (11/17/2007 9:30:16 PM)

Spergon Wynn goe drafted AHEAD of Tom Brady in 2000? What round?




Duane Sampson -> RE:NFL News (11/18/2007 4:49:53 PM)

Kearse Finally Benched Sun Nov 18, 2007 Fox Sports' John Czarnecki reports Philadelphia Eagles DE Javon Kearse has finally been benched after being very unproductive.




Duane Sampson -> RE:NFL News (11/18/2007 4:51:12 PM)

John Beck to Start -- Sun Nov 18, 2007 Fox Sports' John Czarnecki reports with the season lost, the Miami Dolphins will start 26-year-old rookie QB John Beck today against the Eagles. Good, I took Philly for my survivor. :cool:




So.Mn.Fan -> RE:NFL News (11/18/2007 6:01:33 PM)

[quote="Chicken Legs"]Spergon Wynn goe drafted AHEAD of Tom Brady in 2000? What round?[/quote] Hey Thom. Not to get in the middle of this, (and I'm sure you all know this, but) Tom Brady was drafted 6th RD, the 199th player taken. Spergon Wynn was undrafted. btw, Brady has 33 TD passes this year. And 4 interceptions. Incredible.




John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/19/2007 1:45:43 AM)

This Dallas-Wash game is much better than the overhyped NE-Indy game. There have been some great catches in this one.




John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/19/2007 1:55:46 AM)

Man, Owens is going off! He will catch Cris Carter next week at this rate!




Steve Lentz -> RE:NFL News (11/19/2007 1:59:55 AM)

Jets and Steelers going to overtime????




Todd M -> RE:NFL News (11/19/2007 2:06:26 AM)

[quote="Steve Lentz"]Jets and Steelers going to overtime????[/quote] Clemmens. Oh what could have been.




djskillz -> RE:NFL News (11/19/2007 2:22:19 AM)

[quote="Todd Mallett"][quote="Steve Lentz"]Jets and Steelers going to overtime????[/quote] Clemmens. Oh what could have been.[/quote] Always wanted him. He is going to be very good.




Steve Lentz -> RE:NFL News (11/19/2007 3:46:00 AM)

Moss with his first TD of the night. Imagine if he was a good as Welker :whistling: Brady better share that MVP trophy.




Steve Lentz -> RE:NFL News (11/19/2007 4:09:31 AM)

Moss with his 2nd TD of the night. Still not in Welker's class but improving with each game.




Steve Lentz -> RE:NFL News (11/19/2007 4:27:20 AM)

Moss with his 3rd touchdown but it was because they were double teaming Welker.




Steve Lentz -> RE:NFL News (11/19/2007 4:56:32 AM)

Moss with his 4th touchdown. Ball was meant for Welker but Moss out jumped him.




Andy Lowe -> RE:NFL News (11/19/2007 5:07:12 AM)

I see Teddy Ginn got untracked today.




Steve Lentz -> RE:NFL News (11/19/2007 5:16:36 AM)

[quote="Andy Lowe"]I see Teddy Ginn got untracked today.[/quote] Please don't interrupt my play by play Andy. :D




Andy Lowe -> RE:NFL News (11/19/2007 5:42:26 AM)

[quote="Steve Lentz"][quote="Andy Lowe"]I see Teddy Ginn got untracked today.[/quote] Please don't interrupt my play by play Andy. :D[/quote] The whole media thing now sucking up to Moss is a freaking joke, these guys should be embarrased of themselves. When he was in Minnesota, he was public enemy number 1, now it's "he's the smartest player I've ever been around", "Randy's a gerat teammate".........drives me freaking nuts.




djskillz -> RE:NFL News (11/19/2007 5:48:03 AM)

[quote="Andy Lowe"][quote="Steve Lentz"][quote="Andy Lowe"]I see Teddy Ginn got untracked today.[/quote] Please don't interrupt my play by play Andy. :D[/quote] The whole media thing now sucking up to Moss is a freaking joke, these guys should be embarrased of themselves. When he was in Minnesota, he was public enemy number 1, now it's "he's the smartest player I've ever been around", "Randy's a gerat teammate".........drives me freaking nuts.[/quote] Agreed Andy. He was never that bad of a guy when he was in MN, and he ain't no saint now. He has always been, however, a GREAT, GREAT player. That's all that should matter. BTW, Brady's TD/INT reception is almost up to TEN TO ONE! That is freaking ridiculous.




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