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John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/20/2007 8:35:30 PM)

Exactly Moss is to Stallworth what Peterson is to Taylor "Take him off of NE and, as much as it pains me to admit it, NE loses at least 2 games (Dallas and Indy). Put Moss on Dallas, Green Bay or the Colts, and any of those teams are undefeated and the odds on SB favorite, provided he plays with the same intensity " BINGO



djskillz -> RE:NFL News (11/20/2007 8:37:34 PM)

I love Moss. I agree with all those comments. But I still think that even without him the Pats are the best team in the NFL. They're that good. With him they're at least 2 TD's better than everyone, however.



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/20/2007 9:00:48 PM)

[quote="djskilbr"]I love Moss. I agree with all those comments. But I still think that even without him the Pats are the best team in the NFL. They're that good. With him they're at least 2 TD's better than everyone, however.[/quote] Yet with him they were 4 points better than Indy without Harrison and with Clark leaving early? The math doesn't add up here



djskillz -> RE:NFL News (11/20/2007 9:01:38 PM)

[quote="John Childress"][quote="djskilbr"]I love Moss. I agree with all those comments. But I still think that even without him the Pats are the best team in the NFL. They're that good. With him they're at least 2 TD's better than everyone, however.[/quote] Yet with him they were 4 points better than Indy without Harrison and with Clark leaving early? The math doesn't add up here[/quote] On the road, with 150 yards of BS penalties. If not for the penalties they win that game by 2 1/2 TD's ON THE ROAD!



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/20/2007 9:04:50 PM)

Terrible tragedy http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/ncaa/11/20/stacy.wreck.ap/index.html?cnn=yes



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/20/2007 9:05:51 PM)

Again, your math is way off the Pats scored on the series where Moss was flagged for PI and you don't think Indy scores more points with a health Harrison and Clark?



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/20/2007 9:08:46 PM)

See what happens when the Lions lose a game: http://www.kyw1060.com/Naked--Drunk-Pa--Man-Arrested-for-Running-on-I-95/1233066



Lynn G. -> RE:NFL News (11/20/2007 9:27:32 PM)

[quote="John Childress"]Terrible tragedy http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/ncaa/11/20/stacy.wreck.ap/index.html?cnn=yes[/quote] What a horribly sad event. That poor man just lost his wife and four kids, and has serious injuries himself. I can't imagine surviving that kind of grief.



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/20/2007 11:42:56 PM)

quote:

Wasn't it just yesterday that fans and critics alike debated whether the acquisition of Randy Moss would ruin the Patriot Way, and whether New England's talent haul would end up being a Washington-like attempt to buy itself a title in the free-agent market? Phillips was summed up as just an amiable defensive coordinator who had failed in his previous head coaching stints, a virtual throwback to the Cowboys' less-than-scintillating Dave Campo era. • The Bears still had quarterback problems, but their defense was so superior, so dominating Chicago would be right back in the hunt for another Super Bowl trip in the woefully weak NFC. Terrell Owens was by his very psychological make-up incapable of fitting into a team concept in Dallas, and would inevitably drag the Cowboys down with his me-first approach. In the process, he'd walk all over the easy-going Phillips now that the taskmaster Parcells was out of the picture.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/11/20/banks.shots/index.html?bcnn=yes



Tim Cady -> RE:NFL News (11/21/2007 12:03:33 AM)

[quote="Trekgeekscott"][quote="John Childress"]I agree Bart People are revising history to show that the Pats blew them out. The reality is without Harrison they lost by 4 with Brady having his worst game of the year (2 INTs). You tell me Harrison isn't worth 4 points? Worse, he claims the Pats still win that game without Moss! No way on this planet.[/quote] With the Pats down by 14 in the 4th quarter, Brady threw to or in Moss' direction on 9 straight plays...NINE. Including the 55 yard bomb that put them in position to score the first of two TDs that eventually won them the game. Without Moss IMHO, the Pats offense would suddenly become average. And if Harrison were healthy and in that game, There is no way they beat the Colts...even with Moss.[/quote] Harrison is done. He got old fast, even when he wasn't injured this year he has looked old and slow. He is not the Marvin Harrison of the last few years. If the refs call that game fair, the Patriots would have won by 14+. I agree that Moss was the most valuable player for NE that day.



Tim Cady -> RE:NFL News (11/21/2007 12:17:18 AM)

[quote="Danimal"]Chargers, Bengals, Ravens could be interested in Jason Garrett Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 9:22 am EST Dallas Cowboys offensive coordinator Jason Garrett has emerged as a candidate for a head coaching job in the NFL. According to the Dallas Morning News there are three potential openings that might interest Garrett. The San Diego Chargers are the most attractive with all the offensive skills the team has. There is also the Cincinnati Bengals, who do have Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson. And finally, the Baltimore Ravens, who need an offensive-minded coach. Source: Dallas Morning News[/quote] Did they just figure out that Billick is nothing offensively without Denny? I guess they finally figured out that Stat Boy was a genius the same way George, Frerotte and Bauman were great quarterbacks. Great wide receivers and Offensive line, above average running backs and any quarterback or coordinator can look smarter. I see the Alleged murderer is crying again. Ray Ray go away. I hope people have the balls to keep this lowlife fingerpointing jerkwad out of the HOF.



Tim Cady -> RE:NFL News (11/21/2007 12:21:15 AM)

[quote="Trekgeekscott"]Oh, boo hoo hoo....poor Ray Lewis...He left the field too soon. Ray...Newsflash...they got the call right. Sure it took a while but they got it right. and it would have been more of an embarassment if they had gotten it wrong.[/quote] Exactly Hey the refs were huddling and the Ravens ran to lockerroom. Nobodys fault but their own. I like how for once Lewis wasn't railing on his own teammates but the officials. So will the NFL fine their poster boy? I still email them every time they show that NFL Network promo with that piece of crap.



djskillz -> RE:NFL News (11/21/2007 12:56:55 AM)

[quote="Tim Cady"][quote="Trekgeekscott"][quote="John Childress"]I agree Bart People are revising history to show that the Pats blew them out. The reality is without Harrison they lost by 4 with Brady having his worst game of the year (2 INTs). You tell me Harrison isn't worth 4 points? Worse, he claims the Pats still win that game without Moss! No way on this planet.[/quote] With the Pats down by 14 in the 4th quarter, Brady threw to or in Moss' direction on 9 straight plays...NINE. Including the 55 yard bomb that put them in position to score the first of two TDs that eventually won them the game. Without Moss IMHO, the Pats offense would suddenly become average. And if Harrison were healthy and in that game, There is no way they beat the Colts...even with Moss.[/quote] Harrison is done. He got old fast, even when he wasn't injured this year he has looked old and slow. He is not the Marvin Harrison of the last few years. If the refs call that game fair, the Patriots would have won by 14+. I agree that Moss was the most valuable player for NE that day.[/quote] Thanks Cady. Exactly. Harrison hasn't even been Indy's best WR for 2-3 years now. Again, he makes a difference, but not enough to overcome. And let's not forget; in addition to the penalties, the Pats played about the worst they can play and the Colts played about the best they can play, at least on defense. We'll see what happens in Foxboro with a fairly called game, IF the Colts can make it that far, which I kind of doubt at this point.



#1 Bart Starr fan -> RE:NFL News (11/21/2007 1:40:00 AM)

[quote="djskilbr"][quote="Tim Cady"][quote="Trekgeekscott"][quote="John Childress"]I agree Bart People are revising history to show that the Pats blew them out. The reality is without Harrison they lost by 4 with Brady having his worst game of the year (2 INTs). You tell me Harrison isn't worth 4 points? Worse, he claims the Pats still win that game without Moss! No way on this planet.[/quote] With the Pats down by 14 in the 4th quarter, Brady threw to or in Moss' direction on 9 straight plays...NINE. Including the 55 yard bomb that put them in position to score the first of two TDs that eventually won them the game. Without Moss IMHO, the Pats offense would suddenly become average. And if Harrison were healthy and in that game, There is no way they beat the Colts...even with Moss.[/quote] Harrison is done. He got old fast, even when he wasn't injured this year he has looked old and slow. He is not the Marvin Harrison of the last few years. If the refs call that game fair, the Patriots would have won by 14+. I agree that Moss was the most valuable player for NE that day.[/quote] Thanks Cady. Exactly. Harrison hasn't even been Indy's best WR for 2-3 years now. Again, he makes a difference, but not enough to overcome. (snip)[/quote] Okay, if you say so...let's take a look.... Harrison for 2006: 95 catches 1366 yards 14.4 avg ypc 12 TDs Wayne for 2006: 86 catches 1310 yards 15.2 avg ypc 9 TDs Harrison for 2005 82 catches 1146 yards 14.0 avg ypc 12 TDs Wayne for 2005 83 catches 1055 yards 12.7 avg ypc 5 TDs Yeah, Harrison is definitely not their best WR....NOT! No offense, but you may want to actually do the homework before making statements like the above. Just a suggestion. :)



djskillz -> RE:NFL News (11/21/2007 2:13:00 AM)

I know the "stats" say Harrison the last 2 years. I used to play fantasy football, too. But I'm not all about stats. Wayne has been the better overall receiver. If you watch them play, Wayne has drawn more attention and is more gifted at this stage IMO. It's just that Peyton/Harrison have had that connection for so long, or whatever you want to call it. Harrison is not the WR he once was; stats be damned. Football is not all about stats. Too many other variables to only take those into account on their face.



Easy E -> RE:NFL News (11/21/2007 2:17:57 AM)

[quote="djskilbr"][quote="Tim Cady"][quote="Trekgeekscott"][quote="John Childress"]I agree Bart People are revising history to show that the Pats blew them out. The reality is without Harrison they lost by 4 with Brady having his worst game of the year (2 INTs). You tell me Harrison isn't worth 4 points? Worse, he claims the Pats still win that game without Moss! No way on this planet.[/quote] With the Pats down by 14 in the 4th quarter, Brady threw to or in Moss' direction on 9 straight plays...NINE. Including the 55 yard bomb that put them in position to score the first of two TDs that eventually won them the game. Without Moss IMHO, the Pats offense would suddenly become average. And if Harrison were healthy and in that game, There is no way they beat the Colts...even with Moss.[/quote] Harrison is done. He got old fast, even when he wasn't injured this year he has looked old and slow. He is not the Marvin Harrison of the last few years. If the refs call that game fair, the Patriots would have won by 14+. I agree that Moss was the most valuable player for NE that day.[/quote] Thanks Cady. Exactly. Harrison hasn't even been Indy's best WR for 2-3 years now. Again, he makes a difference, but not enough to overcome. And let's not forget; in addition to the penalties, the Pats played about the worst they can play and the Colts played about the best they can play, at least on defense. We'll see what happens in Foxboro with a fairly called game, IF the Colts can make it that far, which I kind of doubt at this point.[/quote] Whining about refs, when the only reason the Patriots beat the Colts in the past is they were allowed to knock down Indy's receivers? That's rich. Harrison is still Indy's best receiver, anyone who watches them knows how integral he is to their offense. No Harrison is like no Moss for the Patriots. They lost their starting left tackle as well. They had key parts of their team missing, up against a healthy Patriot team, and they outplayed them for most of the game. If you watched Indy and thought that was the best they can play, you're sadly mistaken. And the Patriots played far from poorly. They just met a team that was, despite injuries to some of their best players, as good as them, and they couldn't run up the score. If every team were as classless as the Patriots and their coach, there would be a lot more running up of scores. He loves to score meaningless points, and he's doing it solely out of spite, because he got caught cheating. Frankly, everytime they go for it on 4th down trying to run up the score, they lose more and more respect. Even the players are starting to get it. Moss tells people they need to ask the coach about it. It's low class, pure and simple. I hope karma gets them.



Easy E -> RE:NFL News (11/21/2007 2:23:47 AM)

[quote="djskilbr"]I know the "stats" say Harrison the last 2 years. I used to play fantasy football, too. But I'm not all about stats. Wayne has been the better overall receiver. If you watch them play, Wayne has drawn more attention and is more gifted at this stage IMO. It's just that Peyton/Harrison have had that connection for so long, or whatever you want to call it. Harrison is not the WR he once was; stats be damned. Football is not all about stats. Too many other variables to only take those into account on their face.[/quote] No receiver is the same when they get up there in age. But Harrison is key to their offense, no doubt. He still gets double teamed, and anyone watching them knows about the connection he and Manning have. He is still a top 10 receiver in the league, easily. If you want to say that Wayne is the better receiver on their team, you can try to make that argument, but it doesn't change what a huge loss not having Harrison in there is. Especially when his replacement, a pretty good Anthony Gonzales, can't even play. They had to plug in a horrible receiver.



djskillz -> RE:NFL News (11/21/2007 2:28:13 AM)

We'll have to disagree on Harrison. I think Wayne is a VERY good receiver (top 10 probably at this point) and Harrison is not the same. Just my opinion on watching him. To each is own.



#1 Bart Starr fan -> RE:NFL News (11/21/2007 3:27:55 AM)

Look, you're free to INSIST that Wayne is a "better" receiver, and yes, Harrison is showing his age THIS year. But come on, you can't actually think, given the stats (and trust me, I'm not a stats man that much) that Harrison was not their #1 man in 2006 and 2007. Is Wayne as good a receiver technically, meaning is he as physically gifted as Harrison? Maybe, although you must not have watched as many Colts games as I have. I watched them every time they were on the last 4 years and I saw Harrison make LOTS more amazing catches than Wayne, who usually had a couple of drops every game. Harrison also gets separation over very short distances like no one else I've ever seen . He is one of the best ever "come back for the ball" wide outs in NFL history, again IMO. And the man is money when it comes to advancing the chains. So, feel free to stick by your guns, but honestly, I don't know what intangible you are evaluating your WRs on. Harrison hardly ever dropped balls, he had the same sideline presence and toe-catching ability as Cris Carter and his knowledge of where the sticks were was almost uncanny. Yeah, he's lost a step this year but I guarantee you the Colts do NOT win the SB without him. Until this year, he was Peyton's "Donald Driver." So, we agree to disagree but I really, in all sincereity, have no idea what you are using as a yardstick except his decline this year, which is really more about the accumulative pain from nagging injuries finally catching up to him.



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/21/2007 3:44:18 AM)

This stuff is comical. Harrison health doesn't make up a 4 point difference? Harrison has 10 more TDs than Wayne the last 2 years and people claim he isn't good? Let's just ignore all facts in our discussion. What is Peyton Manning's QB rating with and without Harrison? He has his lowest QBr in 6 years this year and in his last few games without Harrison 6 TDs and 9 INTs They also ignore Clark being hurt.



djskillz -> RE:NFL News (11/21/2007 4:16:14 AM)

[quote="John Childress"]This stuff is comical. Harrison health doesn't make up a 4 point difference? Harrison has 10 more TDs than Wayne the last 2 years and people claim he isn't good? Let's just ignore all facts in our discussion. What is Peyton Manning's QB rating with and without Harrison? He has his lowest QBr in 6 years this year and in his last few games without Harrison 6 TDs and 9 INTs They also ignore Clark being hurt.[/quote] And what would it be without Wayne? Wayne is the better receiver IMO. I can only go by what my eyes tell me. I'm not a real stat guy when it comes to football in general. WAY too many other variables in coverage/oline/defense, etc. Baseball is the only major sport where you can fully judge stats.



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/21/2007 2:10:27 PM)

NO, it is real simple. Adding a healthy Harrison would mean Indy scores more points. That is a fact. Taking Moss off the Patriots means they score less points. That is a fact. Some people choose to deal in the real world.



Guest -> RE:NFL News (11/21/2007 3:32:59 PM)

Harrison losing some speed really doesn't hurt his game very much. He's such a good route runner, and one of his biggest assets is his ability to read a defense. He probably reads defenses better than most QB's. To say Manning and the Colts are the same team without him is just not true.



Guest -> RE:NFL News (11/21/2007 4:10:03 PM)

Ohh. more points in the wizzing contest... who cares, again???



John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/21/2007 5:05:18 PM)

COLTS WITH HARRISON 32 ppg WITHOUT 23.6 ppg Manning QB rating WITH Harrison 106 Manning QB rating without 77



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