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Easy E -> RE:NFL News (11/22/2007 5:32:53 AM)
[quote="Pete C"]Harrison losing some speed really doesn't hurt his game very much. He's such a good route runner, and one of his biggest assets is his ability to read a defense. He probably reads defenses better than most QB's. To say Manning and the Colts are the same team without him is just not true.[/quote] Harrison is like Bruce was back in the "greatest show on turf"... only better. Maybe Wayne is better (debateable), but Marvin being out is a huge blow to their offense. As is the LT, Freeney, Clark and Gonzales. The injury bug might be too much for them to overcome. Then again, if they can get healthy for the playoffs, some team might be sleeping on them. Dan, the only people who care are those who are talking about the rest of the NFL. That's what this thread is for.

Guest -> RE:NFL News (11/22/2007 5:49:33 AM)
[quote="#1 Bart Starr fan"][quote="Pete C"][quote="#1 Bart Starr fan"]I really don't get Bellichik. I mean, would it kill the guy to act a little, ya know, humble and "nice," maybe smile a bit now and then. He's so serious and glum. God, you'd think only someone who never won would be in such a bad mood all the time. Ya know, if the guy just took a page from Tony Dungy's book, he'd weather all this criticism a lot better. But I guess he really and truly doesn't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks of him. He doesn't realize that this is exactly why some people dislike him so much. I dunno...he's obviously a good coach but he's such a rude creep and so arrogant. Man, even a hard ass like Lombardi smiled now and then.[/quote] **************************************************** I won't even comment on the continued crying about a professional football team playing their very best for a majority of the 60 minutes they are on the field. WRT Belichick, do you know him? I'll admit he may appear to be "serious" and "glum" but how do you know that's how he really is? The answer is that you don't know. None of us do. Millions of people thought O.J. Simpson was a great guy. Unless you know 'em, you don't know 'em.[/quote] Hmm, I think you're reading something into my post that isn't there. I'm criticizing how he appears, not how he is. He is a head coach in the most popular professional sport in this country. There is a responsibility to that job...and a level of professionalism that SHOULD be maintained. Yeah, I'm old fashioned. I miss the days of coaches wearing suits and ties. Belichick dresses like a slob and, strictly IMO, he's a disgrace to the profesison in that regard. His curt manners and lack of civility to players and other coaches and his apparent disdain for others is not befitting someone who is supposed to be the visible leader of his team. Feel free to disagree with me as I admit these are my personal and highly subjective feelings. BUt I was indoctrinated into the NFL during the Lombardi, Stramm, Halas and Landry era. I don't expect coaches to look like business men any more, as much as I wish they would, but this dressing like you're a high school gym teacher is insulting, and I include Mike McCarthy in that criticism, if you want to know the truth. Bravo to Jack Del Rio for bringing some class back to the job.[/quote] *********************************************************** WRT the dress of Belichick, I think your ire should be directed at the league. The NFL has a dress code and unfortunately their code seems to be more concerned with marketing than actual appearance. Personally, I don't see any of the coaches as GQ material, so I don't care how they dress. I can understand your point of view though. Incidentally, a freind of mine in Atlanta used to have the landscaping contract for Hank Stramm's properties, including his residence. He told me that he was the biggest asshole he ever met in his entire life, but you're right, he was always dressed well.

Guest -> RE:NFL News (11/22/2007 6:06:41 AM)
[quote="Easy E"][quote="Pete C"]His running up the score is strictly opinion. Your solution of instructing players to illegally and intentionally taking Brady out is ILLEGAL, and has absolutely no place in organized sports on any level. You'd have a hard time finding one single player that would intentionally and illegally take out a fellow player because they were beat by more than YOU think they should have been.[/quote] It's the Patriots that go for QB's knees. I wasn't aware of this. You have some specifics? I don't care about the Patriots playing hard. They should do that. The going for it on 4th down when the game is out of hand is low class. And tacking on an automatic 3 by going for the field goal is not running up the score? Going for it on 4th down gives the other professional, paid football players a chance to stop them from tacking on points. Bill B and his wandering winkie is low class as well. So is cheating. And the only reason Bill is trying to do this is because he got caught. He didn't used to go for it on every 4th down. Hiding behind "we're just playing hard" is a crock. It is a childish reaction to being caught cheating, that is as plain as day. Perhaps he learned a lesson from last season. No lead is safe. You did watch that game, right? IMO, every coach in the league could learn something about how he coaches on gameday. He continues to coach his players, and demands top performance regardless of the score. Aside from the health issue (which really shouldn't be an issue because we both know a player can get hurt in the 1st quarter just as easily as the 4th) what possible benefit is there for the Patriots to pull there starters in the 3rd quarter? Incidentally, did you know that the Patriots non-starters have logged more minutes than any other teams non-starters this season? That's fine, the Patriots should go ahead and run up the score, go for it on 4th down with a 35 point lead, steal signals, whatever they want. I'm not sure who you're directing this at. I've stated my opinion on cheating several times. They haven't won a Super Bowl yet, and I'm a big believer in what goes around comes around.[/quote] Lastly, I'm waiting for somebody to tell me what exactly the cutoff point is on running up the score. Do you have one? The Oilers were up by 32 and lost. At what exact point does it become classless for a team to continue to do what they are paid to do???[/quote]

Kurtis -> RE:NFL News (11/22/2007 6:18:43 AM)
I don't buy into all the "The Pats run up the score" outrage. This ain't pop warner. If other teams don't want them to score so much, they ought to stop them.

Guest -> RE:NFL News (11/22/2007 6:26:31 AM)
[quote="Kurtis Scaletta"]I don't buy into all the "The Pats run up the score" outrage. This ain't pop warner. If other teams don't want them to score so much, they ought to stop them.[/quote] *************************************************** Personally, I think it's mostly a hatred for the Patriots. Surprisingly, I didn't read one post about the Packers running up the score on us despite the fact that they were up 27-0 with less than six minutes remaining in the game.

Guest -> RE:NFL News (11/22/2007 6:31:20 AM)
[quote="Easy E"][quote="El Duderino"]Do we think it's disrespect when they went and picked up their checks for letting a team score 50 points on them? That should be disrespect; that you went to your owner and said, 'All right, pay me for that game I just played.' That is a FANTASTIC line.[/quote] And what do you think Brady will do when he plays a bad game? I bet he convienently forgets this line when that happens. The Patriots are acting like they've won something already, and the whole team has taken on Bill's paranoia Payback is a beyatch, and the rest of the league will hopefully remember this. I would love to see Brady get LEGALLY nailed in the ribs trying to run up the score. Karma usually takes people down when they get this arrogant.[/quote] ****************************************************** And if I were the opposing coach, that's exactly what I would do. I would send everybody on all-out blitzes and try to hit him HARD (legally). That's how you get him out of the game. Crying about it after the fact isn't going to do it. I don't know, maybe a coach could call a timeout and walk accross the field and politely ask Belichick to please pull his QB.

Lynn G. -> RE:NFL News (11/22/2007 6:37:45 AM)
[quote="Pete C"][quote="Kurtis Scaletta"]I don't buy into all the "The Pats run up the score" outrage. This ain't pop warner. If other teams don't want them to score so much, they ought to stop them.[/quote] *************************************************** Personally, I think it's mostly a hatred for the Patriots. Surprisingly, I didn't read one post about the Packers running up the score on us despite the fact that they were up 27-0 with less than six minutes remaining in the game.[/quote] Well, we certainly hate the Packers more than the Patriots, so that can't be it. I know that Aaron Rodgers came in with a couple of minutes to go, but I didn't look at the clock to see exactly when it was. I just remember commenting that "the Aaron Rodgers era has begun." :D

Easy E -> RE:NFL News (11/22/2007 10:14:43 AM)
Pete, I wasn't directing my hope for karma to get them towards anyone but the Patriots. My cutoff point for running up the score is when you're up by 75 points with 2 minutes left in the game. At that point, there is no hope of a comeback by the other team. It's just running up the score to compensate for being caught cheating. I have no problem with a team being well coached or playing hard. I have no problem with a team protecting their lead. You and I both know that when the Patriots have all their starters out there at the end of the game and are going for it on fourth down, they are not trying to prevent a comeback nor give the other team a fighting chance. They are being pricks, and that will come back and get them, I am almost sure. What Bill B is doing is trying to stick being caught cheating down the league's collective throat by running up the score. These Patriots aren't anything more than the 98 Vikings or the Rams with Faulk. Both those teams played hard as heck and killed teams on offense. And yet you didn't even see Green (a guy I didn't like much as a coach) going for it on 4th down when he was up by an insane amount late in the game. And that the Patriots and Bill B feel compelled to do that doesn't make them any greater. Like I say, I hope they keep doing it.

Tim Cady -> RE:NFL News (11/22/2007 10:28:24 AM)
I still say no win, when you are that good. A field goal up by 35 or more is more pouring than to go and get a touch. ' Big boys league, stop them, forfeit or pull your starters if you are worried about losing by a record amount. You keep your starters in down by35 and you deserve the beating you get. Quit crying.

Guest -> RE:NFL News (11/22/2007 10:32:09 AM)
[quote="Easy E"]Pete, I wasn't directing my hope for karma to get them towards anyone but the Patriots. My cutoff point for running up the score is when you're up by 75 points with 2 minutes left in the game. At that point, there is no hope of a comeback by the other team. It's just running up the score to compensate for being caught cheating. I have no problem with a team being well coached or playing hard. I have no problem with a team protecting their lead. You and I both know that when the Patriots have all their starters out there at the end of the game and are going for it on fourth down, they are not trying to prevent a comeback nor give the other team a fighting chance. They are being pricks, and that will come back and get them, I am almost sure. What Bill B is doing is trying to stick being caught cheating down the league's collective throat by running up the score. These Patriots aren't anything more than the 98 Vikings or the Rams with Faulk. Both those teams played hard as heck and killed teams on offense. And yet you didn't even see Green (a guy I didn't like much as a coach) going for it on 4th down when he was up by an insane amount late in the game. And that the Patriots and Bill B feel compelled to do that doesn't make them any greater. Like I say, I hope they keep doing it.[/quote] **************************************************** Easy E, I think you're the most level headed person up in here, but I think you're wrong on this one. Your posts will still be must reads for me though.

Tim Cady -> RE:NFL News (11/22/2007 11:38:47 AM)
[quote="Easy E"][quote="djskilbr"][quote="Tim Cady"][quote="Trekgeekscott"][quote="John Childress"]I agree Bart People are revising history to show that the Pats blew them out. The reality is without Harrison they lost by 4 with Brady having his worst game of the year (2 INTs). You tell me Harrison isn't worth 4 points? Worse, he claims the Pats still win that game without Moss! No way on this planet.[/quote] With the Pats down by 14 in the 4th quarter, Brady threw to or in Moss' direction on 9 straight plays...NINE. Including the 55 yard bomb that put them in position to score the first of two TDs that eventually won them the game. Without Moss IMHO, the Pats offense would suddenly become average. And if Harrison were healthy and in that game, There is no way they beat the Colts...even with Moss.[/quote] Harrison is done. He got old fast, even when he wasn't injured this year he has looked old and slow. He is not the Marvin Harrison of the last few years. If the refs call that game fair, the Patriots would have won by 14+. I agree that Moss was the most valuable player for NE that day.[/quote] Thanks Cady. Exactly. Harrison hasn't even been Indy's best WR for 2-3 years now. Again, he makes a difference, but not enough to overcome. And let's not forget; in addition to the penalties, the Pats played about the worst they can play and the Colts played about the best they can play, at least on defense. We'll see what happens in Foxboro with a fairly called game, IF the Colts can make it that far, which I kind of doubt at this point.[/quote] Whining about refs, when the only reason the Patriots beat the Colts in the past is they were allowed to knock down Indy's receivers? That's rich. Harrison is still Indy's best receiver, anyone who watches them knows how integral he is to their offense. No Harrison is like no Moss for the Patriots. They lost their starting left tackle as well. They had key parts of their team missing, up against a healthy Patriot team, and they outplayed them for most of the game. If you watched Indy and thought that was the best they can play, you're sadly mistaken. And the Patriots played far from poorly. They just met a team that was, despite injuries to some of their best players, as good as them, and they couldn't run up the score. If every team were as classless as the Patriots and their coach, there would be a lot more running up of scores. He loves to score meaningless points, and he's doing it solely out of spite, because he got caught cheating. Frankly, everytime they go for it on 4th down trying to run up the score, they lose more and more respect. Even the players are starting to get it. Moss tells people they need to ask the coach about it. It's low class, pure and simple. I hope karma gets them.[/quote] Talk about revisionist history. One playoff game the Pats got away with knocking the Colts receivers around. I agree that game helped the Pat, officiating wise. The NFL changed the rules after that game, problem is, theyonly call the abuse against teams they deem worthy. Inconsistant at best. The refs in this league still leave questions in my mind, that lead me to believe there are teams that are league favs.

Todd M -> RE:NFL News (11/22/2007 3:07:59 PM)
The way I look at it is; if it was the Vikings doing this woud I have a problem? Nope.

Guest -> RE:NFL News (11/22/2007 4:46:13 PM)
Quarterbacks are play makers, running backs are play makers, receivers are play makers. If the can make a throw, catch, run and the defense can't or won't stop them, are they supposed to stop and fall over so as not to "embarrass" the opposition? This is PRO football, everyone is paid to do their job with as much effort as required to execute on every play. Should players "take plays off" because they are ahead by 21+? Haven't any of you whiners ever seen a game where teams down 3+ touchdowns have come back to tie and win? Y'all just wanna bitch about BB, but if he was enjoying the same success here in Minnesota, you would be bragging about the great Minnesota scoring machine.

John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/22/2007 4:50:46 PM)
Yes, I would have a problem with it. Up over 5 TDs in the 4th quarter no one is coming back. Plus it is dumb from a coaching standpoint to leave your starters in that long. Not only do you risk them to injury but you take away valuable game time for your second string. INstead of benching Cassell after an INT and putting Brady back in he should have kept Cassell in there to work through his development. There may actually come a game where Brady is hurt and they need Cassell to make plays to win a game. There have been several instances of Bill B running it up this year. People who claim they don['t see it are in denial. I wouldn't whine to the press if I was the other coach - I would legally blitz the H out of the QB until I knocked him out of the game - I don't care what the score is. The real issue is the cheating talk p'd off BB to the point where he is saying "I will show you" to the NFL. But an even larger driving force for him is to produce the greatest team of all time. He wants to put the scoring record up so high no one ever approaches it again. He wants 19-0. He knows that only by driving his team this head each week can he keep them at the pitch they need to go 19-0 and become the greatest team of all time. I actually don't think BB is quite as upset about the cheating stuff as people think. But he is one of the greatest motivators in sports today and he is using it to create the ultimate us v them mentality. Forget about the poor other team, what BB is trying to accomplish may go down as one of the great sports motivating jobs.

David Levine -> RE:NFL News (11/22/2007 7:16:17 PM)
[quote="John Childress"]But an even larger driving force for him is to produce the greatest team of all time. He wants to put the scoring record up so high no one ever approaches it again. He wants 19-0. He knows that only by driving his team this head each week can he keep them at the pitch they need to go 19-0 and become the greatest team of all time. I actually don't think BB is quite as upset about the cheating stuff as people think. But he is one of the greatest motivators in sports today and he is using it to create the ultimate us v them mentality. Forget about the poor other team, what BB is trying to accomplish may go down as one of the great sports motivating jobs.[/quote] Absolutely. Winning the SB is an amazing thing, but putting your stamp on history is so much more. Maybe it makes me a bad sport, but I'd LOVE it if it was the Vikings doing this. And I still like it because I am rooting for Randy to break some individual records AND be part of an historic team.

John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/22/2007 7:54:12 PM)
NOt only is Randy a part of it, he is the main driving force.

John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/22/2007 7:54:31 PM)
Calvin Johnson is no Randy Moss

Easy E -> RE:NFL News (11/22/2007 9:15:22 PM)
Pete - Thanks. Maybe I have blinders on wrt the Pats, maybe I'm missing just how special and brilliant Bill B is, and I should be enjoying this historic run. But I have never like the Patriots. They got lucky with their first Super Bowl, but otherwise that was a likeable team that played hard. Then they got arrogant, and they absolutely won their next two Super Bowls in part from mugging the opposition. The rules of the NFL didn't change, but the league looked at those games and told their refs, basically, um... hey.... you really have to start calling those penalties, m'kay? This year? I admit it, I don't like them. Not only are they a bunch of cheaters, but most people (the Barry Bond bashing media, especially) absolutely LOVE the Patriots. Anyway, as I say, the only thing I want to see Brady or another starter get injured while Bill B is set on making his histroy. Karma usually takes care of this kind of thing. And if you guys don't think that Bill B will inspire future coached to play this brand of football, which frankly I don't like, you're fooling yourselves. By this time 2 years from now, most coached will be going for it on 4th down in the 4th quarter when they're up by 35 points. I hope you all are praising it then, too. Just please don't say it's because they're trying to prevent a comeback. It's all about ego. The histroy I hope Bill B sets is to be the most prolific offense never to win a Super Bowl. Watching them take that title from the Vikings would be sweet, for me.

Lynn G. -> RE:NFL News (11/23/2007 12:08:36 AM)
[quote="John Childress"]Calvin Johnson is no Randy Moss[/quote] Boy, you can say that again. He looked more like Troy Williamson today.

John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/23/2007 12:30:26 AM)
[quote="Lynn G."][quote="John Childress"]Calvin Johnson is no Randy Moss[/quote] Boy, you can say that again. He looked more like Troy Williamson today.[/quote] I can't believe that I wanted to give up two #1s for him! Man, I was wrong on that one. He redeemed himself somewhat at the end but he is not in Moss' league at all.

Easy E -> RE:NFL News (11/23/2007 2:10:50 AM)
Calvin won't ever be better than Roy Williams, even. He's good enough, but he was way overhyped. I am disappointed in the Cowboys.... don't they know that to be a respected team they need to air it out here at the end and try to score more TDs. Heck, the Jets might come back on em. And they aren't even giving them the courtesy of trying to stop them. Just running the ball and winding down the clock when you're up by 30 is for losers.... Man, I just realized I hate the Patriots as much as the Cowboys now. That is saying a lot.

Guest -> RE:NFL News (11/23/2007 5:19:08 AM)
Vince Young now has Mike Williams to work with under Norm Chow... This could be either a good fit or the death knell of Williams

thebigo -> RE:NFL News (11/23/2007 7:17:29 AM)
[quote="Pete C"]I seem to recall a playoff game where the Bills were down by 32 points in the second half, good thing the Oilers didn't want to run up the score. They lost. Indy down 35-14 to Tampa with less than 4 minutes left in the game. Good thing Tampa didn't want to run up the score. They lost too. Maybe you could petition the league to institute a new rule that states you can only win by a certain margin. Seriously, I'd like to know what you think is an acceptable margin of victory???[/quote] Or pass a 28 point rule? As soon as one team goes up by 28 points, the game ends. That way everybody wins.

El Duderino -> RE:NFL News (11/23/2007 8:28:04 PM)
Let's put this in a somewhat different context: If a pitcher is throwing a one-hit game with 15 runs in support, is it unsportsmanlike for him to keep striking batters out? Should he let the other team get a few hits to avoid humiliating them? Or what about in hockey - if a team is up five goals and the opponents pull their goalie, is it unsportsmanlike for a defender to put a shot on the empty net? Or tennis - if a player wins the first two sets without giving up a game, should he let the other player win a few games to make it seem a bit less unfair? Or golf - if a golfer leads the field by 10 strokes on day 4, should he stop going for birdies? No, in professional sports, part of the excitement is seeing what the very best of the very best can do when they give it everything they've got. You would miss out on some of the most impressive feats if players and teams start winning by only as much as they need to. I think Mallet had it exactly right - the yardstick should be, if this was my team doing it, would I be upset with them? Well, I know I wasn't upset with the 1998 Vikings. I'm not going to begrudge the Patriots. Perhaps if it were the Packers ...

John Childress -> RE:NFL News (11/23/2007 8:35:02 PM)
Baseball is a poor example for you to use. If a team is up by 10 runs and steals a base you can bet that the next batter is getting plucked. There are more unwritten rules in baseball than the NFL. Hockey? Yeah, if another team is rubbing it in there will be a fight coming.

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