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SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/31/2014 9:09:45 AM)

Starks blog on Arroyo's plight.

Bronson Arroyo doesn't get it. And how can you blame him?
He's thrown at least 199 innings in nine seasons in a row. He's never spent 15 minutes, let alone 15 days, on the disabled list. There isn't a pitcher in the entire sport who has started more games than he has since 2005.
And where has it gotten him? To the unemployment line. That's where.
He was going along fine for one month, then two, then three, this winter. But when he saw the Yankees just fire $155 million at a man who had never thrown a pitch in the big leagues -- Masahiro Tanaka -- Arroyo's frustrations finally boiled over.

[image]http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/1022/mlb_a_price_d2_300x200.jpg[/image]

Bronson Arroyo won 14 games, pitched 202 innings and had a sub-4.00 ERA last season, yet he's still among the unemployed.
"I get [Clayton] Kershaw," Arroyo told ESPN.com. "I get why he got all that money. But then you've got guys like Dice-K [Matsuzaka], who came over here and was good for the first couple years but then didn't pan out. And when he doesn't pan out, they all just forget and go on to the next guy who's not proven, and pay him.
"Meanwhile, they forget about guys like me, who have done the job for the last eight or 10 years, and treat them like they've never done anything in this game. That's hard, man."
Arroyo said 12 teams have made contact with his agent, Terry Bross, this winter, but he hasn't gotten close to a deal with any of them. And it's the last week of January.
"I don't even have an offer to turn down," he said. "So I might still be sitting here on March 1. I have no idea."
His old team, the Reds, loves him but is ready to move on. He had strong interest from the Twins earlier in the offseason, but they re-signed Mike Pelfrey instead. And while Arroyo has been linked to a long list of teams at various times -- Orioles, Dodgers, Mariners, Mets, Angels, Phillies, Pirates, etc. -- he's still in limbo, along with a surprising number of other veteran starters.
"I don't know what to do," Arroyo said. "I'm not trying to break the bank. But I am a guy who's performed for the last 10 years as consistently as anybody in the game. And for some reason, nobody's thrown me an offer yet."
So how consistent has Arroyo been? He and Mark Buehrle are the only pitchers in baseball who have pitched 199 innings or more in every one of the past nine seasons. Only CC Sabathia and Dan Haren have thrown more total innings than the 1,895.2 Arroyo has pitched over those nine years. And he and Haren are tied for the most games started in the big leagues in that period, with 297, an average of 33 a year.


MOST GAMES STARTED, 2005-13



Bronson Arroyo
297

Dan Haren
297

Mark Buehrle
290

CC Sabathia
289

A.J. Burnett
271

Felix Hernandez
269

Cliff Lee
267
Not to mention: He's had a sub-4.00 ERA, despite pitching in a hitter's paradise in Cincinnati, in four of the past five years. The Reds have had a better winning percentage in his starts since 2008 (.531) than they've had when other pitchers started (.522). And his walk rate has gone down in five straight seasons.
For much of the offseason, Arroyo was looking for a three-year guaranteed deal worth slightly more than $30 million, according to teams that have spoken with him. But an executive of one club now expects him to wind up with two years, plus an option, at around the same AAV. Which still would make him a cheaper buy than Ricky Nolasco, Scott Kazmir or Scott Feldman were this winter. And Arroyo has outperformed them all.
"I'm not surprised that he doesn't get it, because I don't get it, either," said one AL exec whose team isn't a fit. "I guess people are concerned about his age [he turns 37 next month]. But he's 37 going on 27. He's got a loose, limber body. He's never been on the DL. He never misses a start. He doesn't cost you a draft pick. He's a tremendous teammate. He's helped a lot of [young] pitchers on his team. So I don't understand it. I really don't."
Arroyo jokes about being this year's Kyle Lohse, "throwing against my high school baseball team in March to stay sharp." But he keeps telling himself that scenario makes no sense.
"I know, eventually, it'll get done," he said. "There are too many holes in too many rotations, and there aren't enough pitchers out there who can throw you 200 innings. So I'm just sitting here waiting for an offer."
And if he's still waiting a month from now, we'll know this starting-pitcher market has officially turned into one of the weirdest ever.




twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/31/2014 9:17:13 AM)

CPAMAN would recommend a haircut for Arroyo.




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/31/2014 9:19:59 AM)

His cornrow look would really upset him .... [&:]




twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/31/2014 9:31:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

His cornrow look would really upset him .... [&:]

[&:][&:]

A short and professional haircut would solve his problems. He'd be signed as soon as he walks out of the barber shop.




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/31/2014 9:36:10 AM)

Then he'd spit .... and dammit, they'd tear up that contract.




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/31/2014 9:38:45 AM)

The more I think about it, that whole "heavy drinker" label they're trying to pin on Garza, pisses me off.
Typical holier-than-thou Twins thinking.
Morality police. How about we worry about winning ballgames for awhile.
Your boy scout approach is sure working nice, eh?




CPAMAN -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/31/2014 9:42:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Black 47

HOF players say "jump on my back" and carry their team in the pistseason. Mauer has never won a game. 0-9.


Mauer can hit a double down the line and the umps can **** it up and the bullpen can blow the game through managerial idiocy and it's all Mauer's fault.

BULL and SHIT.

There are a number of players in the HOF that never played in the postseason.  HOW did they get in?

There are plenty that went to the postseason and shit the bed.  HOW did they get in?

How does Greg Maddux go to the HOF?  He only won ONE world series and was notoriously average in the postseason especially the WS.

Is that how Jim Rice got into the HOF by winning all sorts of...hmmmm

I don't think your theory holds water. 



If Mauer would learn to pull the ball, he wouldn't have to worry about line drives to the opposite field that hug the fair/foul line.  [8D]




CPAMAN -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/31/2014 9:55:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Why would anyone look at 35 AB and use those to judge whether a player should be in the HOF or not?


[sm=fishhook.gif]

I'm willing to place a modest wager with anyone that doesn't think Mauer gets in the HOF. I need to live long enough to collect it or they can just pay Matt.



Personally, I think it is pathetic that we have to put up with a team that has a marquee player that people argue about whether they are HOF worthy. A HOF player should pretty much be idolized or appreciated by most knowledgeable fans of a sport. There really should not be a question whether they make the grade. This is the primary reason the Twins are so terrible. We are fed a border-line star player and what we get in return is a crap overall product.

Do we have a bet? I don't see the argument.
The team sucks. We have a HOF player that is finding very little team success.


OK Steve.  $20 says that Joe Mauer will not make it into the HOF, although he probably will with his three batting titles.  I will pay you $20 if he gets voted in during any time of his eligibility.  Matt Dahl lives 35 miles away and we see each other several times each year.  He will be my witness.  In order to makes thing fair and a bit more interesting, I will double the wager if Mauer gets voted in as a first ballot HOF as Dustin preaches that he will.  So if this were to happen, I will pay you $40.  But if Mauer does not get voted in within the first three years of eligibility, you will owe me $40. 

So the bet is I pay you $40 if he gets voted in during his first year of eligibility.  If he does not get voted in during any of the first three years of eligibility, you pay me $40.  If Mauer were to get voted in during years 4-15 of eligibility, I pay you back $20. 

Are you OK with these terms, or do you wish to change any of them?  Let me know, I am flexible. 

Thanks Steve. 




CPAMAN -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/31/2014 9:56:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

CPAMAN would recommend a haircut for Arroyo.


Yes, that would become a priority. Thanks for reminding me Matt. 




twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/31/2014 10:02:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

The more I think about it, that whole "heavy drinker" label they're trying to pin on Garza, pisses me off.
Typical holier-than-thou Twins thinking.
Morality police. How about we worry about winning ballgames for awhile.
Your boy scout approach is sure working nice, eh?

Yeah, I agree. Pisses me off too. They think they have everything figured out.

Garza has gone on to have pretty good career. How about we look at that instead of what the Twins think they know about a guy they had 7 years ago. Look at the '87 Twins. Probably the heaviest drinking bunch in the history of Minnesota sports. What if we woulda got rid of Kent Hrbek, Gary Gaetti and Dan Gladden? Wouldn't have had much of a team.




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/31/2014 10:07:10 AM)

Look no further than the current world champs [sm=vomit.gif]
Even tho I despise them, how much time did they spend on personal hygiene and moral behavior?
You've got stinky cavemen who didn't shave for months, rounders who chased (and caught) their cute sideline reporter, and icons who have links to PED use.
Yeah, bet they spend the off-season cleaning it all up .... [&o]




Stacey King -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/31/2014 10:38:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Look no further than the current world champs [sm=vomit.gif]
Even tho I despise them, how much time did they spend on personal hygiene and moral behavior?
You've got stinky cavemen who didn't shave for months, rounders who chased (and caught) their cute sideline reporter, and icons who have links to PED use.
Yeah, bet they spend the off-season cleaning it all up .... [&o]


they like their female reporters there in bos-town

ex bruin jay leach caught kathryn tappen too. must be something in the water.




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/31/2014 10:40:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Look no further than the current world champs [sm=vomit.gif]
Even tho I despise them, how much time did they spend on personal hygiene and moral behavior?
You've got stinky cavemen who didn't shave for months, rounders who chased (and caught) their cute sideline reporter, and icons who have links to PED use.
Yeah, bet they spend the off-season cleaning it all up .... [&o]


they like their female reporters there in bos-town

ex bruin jay leach caught kathryn tappen too. must be something in the water.


Its akin to some areas of the country, where family reunions are viewed as excellent dating opportunities.




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/31/2014 10:43:36 AM)

This is the story, if you aren't aware ...

Popular Boston Red Sox sideline reporter Jenny Dell won't be covering the team anymore, after beginning a relationship with one of its players. Dell and third baseman Will Middlebrooks publicly outed themselves as an item on New Year's Eve. Dell's employer, NESN, didn't directly say that was the reason for reassigning her, but those dots are easy to connect.

As The Stew wrote when Dell was hired at NESN, her job is the most popular of its kind in baseball. The sideline reporter for NESN doesn't just relay info to a very engaged baseball fan base, she carries enough clout to get her own bobblehead. She's the "the de facto homecoming queen of New England." Heidi Watney, who Dell replaced, now works for MLB Network. So this isn't just any ol' TV news gig.
The Boston Herald has more on NESN's decision to move Dell away from the Red Sox:

“NESN has an active search for a Red Sox sideline reporter,” station spokesman Gary Roy said in response to an inquiry from the Track. “Jenny Dell, a multi-talented on-air personality, is anchoring ‘NESN Sports Today’ and handling other assignments for NESN" ...


Dell and Middlebrooks, who have been dating for nearly a year, began appearing together in public last fall after the Sox won the World Series. On New Year’s Eve Middlebrooks texted his 143,000 followers a pic of him with his arm around Dell and the message: “Happy New Year from us to you! Here’s to a great 2014!”


Happy New Year from us to you! Here's to a great 2014! @JennyDellNESN pic.twitter.com/2dBIGeYK5P
— Will Middlebrooks (@middlebrooks) January 1, 2014

In fairness to Dell, her job isn't to be an investigative reporter or cover the team as fairly and objectively as a beat writer at a newspaper would. She's a pretty face that fans at home can count on to tell them about injuries, relay info about promotions and interview players after the game. Which is to say, the "conflict of interest" flag isn't as enormous here as it would be for some other media members. Still, it was enough that NESN needed to do something.
Dell might have left the Red Sox soon enough anyway. She's been rumored to be in line for bigger and better jobs. Fox Sports 1 has been mentioned as a suitor.




CPAMAN -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/31/2014 11:31:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Look no further than the current world champs [sm=vomit.gif]
Even tho I despise them, how much time did they spend on personal hygiene and moral behavior?
You've got stinky cavemen who didn't shave for months, rounders who chased (and caught) their cute sideline reporter, and icons who have links to PED use.
Yeah, bet they spend the off-season cleaning it all up .... [&o]


they like their female reporters there in bos-town

ex bruin jay leach caught kathryn tappen too. must be something in the water.


Its akin to some areas of the country, where family reunions are viewed as excellent dating opportunities.



You mean like Stearns County, Minnesota? 




ewen21 -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (1/31/2014 4:32:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

The more I think about it, that whole "heavy drinker" label they're trying to pin on Garza, pisses me off.
Typical holier-than-thou Twins thinking.
Morality police. How about we worry about winning ballgames for awhile.
Your boy scout approach is sure working nice, eh?


It's an out for them, clearly. He may or may not drink "too much" but the bottom line is he isn't a good fit for the Twins. No way in heck his personality will mesh with the Twins. It didn't work the first time around and it won't work now. You the same people in place that had problems with him years ago. THis is why I was never high on Garza coming over to the Twins.




Steve Lentz -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (2/1/2014 2:40:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Black 47

HOF players say "jump on my back" and carry their team in the pistseason. Mauer has never won a game. 0-9.


Sounds good, but certainly not always the case.

Players like Carew, Banks, Thomas and Griffey never got to a World Series.

Players like Killebrew, Bonds, McCovey, Gwynn, Dawson, Ted Williams and Yastrzemski never won a World series.




Dave E -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (2/2/2014 8:39:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Black 47

HOF players say "jump on my back" and carry their team in the pistseason. Mauer has never won a game. 0-9.


Sounds good, but certainly not always the case.

Players like Carew, Banks, Thomas and Griffey never got to a World Series.

Players like Killebrew, Bonds, McCovey, Gwynn, Dawson, Ted Williams and Yastrzemski never won a World series.


Baseball is far too much of a team game to put winning or losing on one player (except for possibly Buckner).




ewen21 -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (2/2/2014 10:47:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Black 47

HOF players say "jump on my back" and carry their team in the pistseason. Mauer has never won a game. 0-9.


Sounds good, but certainly not always the case.

Players like Carew, Banks, Thomas and Griffey never got to a World Series.

Players like Killebrew, Bonds, McCovey, Gwynn, Dawson, Ted Williams and Yastrzemski never won a World series.


Never mind the postseason record. Let's look at his all time numbers when he's all said and done. He's hit 105 home runs and driven in 635 runs. He hasn't even reached 1,500 hits yet and he's been playing for 10 years and he's gonna be 31 this year....AND he is no longer a catcher.

Those career totals are weak. He doesn't warrant a serious HOF discussion at this point in time. Case closed.




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (2/2/2014 10:49:57 AM)

Good points on the career totals.
Surprisingly weak.
Will he put 8 more solid years together?
Maybe, since he's been stood up finally.
I would have called him a 90%er to get to 3,000 when he was a rook.
I'd put it at about 20% now.  




twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (2/2/2014 10:59:04 AM)

Mauer's game isn't only about hits. It's about taking pitches and drawing walks. You need to take that into account. ewen left that part out.




ewen21 -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (2/2/2014 11:03:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Good points on the career totals.
Surprisingly weak.
Will he put 8 more solid years together?
Maybe, since he's been stood up finally.
I would have called him a 90%er to get to 3,000 when he was a rook.
I'd put it at about 20% now.  


No way in hell he gets there. He is more than halfway done, imo. I can't even say how many "solid" years he'll put together. He certainly isn't a guy who is a physical specimen and those guys tend to fade fast. He might just have a couple of decent years left. I give him about a 0% chance of reaching 3,000 hits. He'd need to average 200 hits a season for 8 straight years. That simply isn't going to happen.




ewen21 -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (2/2/2014 11:04:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Mauer's game isn't only about hits. It's about taking pitches and drawing walks. You need to take that into account. ewen left that part out.


How can I forget!

The guy is going to walk his way to Cooperstown[&o]




SoMnFan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (2/2/2014 11:07:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Mauer's game isn't only about hits. It's about taking pitches and drawing walks. You need to take that into account. ewen left that part out.


Very true
Those walks when we are down three late in the game are much-needed.
Because it's translated into so many wins lately.
We could chase our tails on this all day.
As bad as this team has been, SWING THE BAT.




twinsfan -> RE: MLB General Information PT 4 (2/2/2014 11:08:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ewen21

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Mauer's game isn't only about hits. It's about taking pitches and drawing walks. You need to take that into account. ewen left that part out.


How can I forget!

The guy is going to walk his way to Cooperstown[&o]

Other than the Win, the Hit is the most overrated stat in baseball. The Walk is the most underrated and under-appreciated stat in baseball, unfortunately for Joe.




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