quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

Upon further review Cousins is not innocent last night

That last drive had some awful throws

Since all evaluations can’t be made in a vacuum. You paid 75 mil for the guy to win big games

Just because he’s not Rhodes level hot garbage bad doesn’t mean it was a good decision to sign him

Cousins, Barr and Rhodes. A lot of tied up questionable money

I would add Harrison Smith. If your corners are no good it’s obvious a safety isn’t worth paying for.

Vikings will need to score at least 40 to win any playoff game.

Zimmer can’t coach up a bad defense which makes him worthless.

I would think blitzing ever single play would be a good strategy given how bad the secondary is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ush

My $.02 cents:

1. Predictable loss. Didn’t know exactly how it was going to happen but, as a Viking fan, you just knew it was. We don’t win these games. It’s either fumbles or stupid penalties, or INT’s or bad play calling or horrible, inept play. It just happens every time and it’s so frustrating.

2. I have always been a huge Zimmer supporter but when you have 2 weeks to prepare and your defense plays like that, you have to get the blame. You are the defensive “genius” and your new plan was to play deep cover 2 most of the game?!? Even when they had 6 offensive linemen in most of the game?!?

3. Run defense has been bad all season....except against Dallas when Linval was out. Seems like teams are always 2nd and 4 or 2nd and 2. I liked Wilson in for Gedeon but he made some glaring mistakes last night in the run game.

4. It’s pretty clear that Rhodes won’t be here next year with that contract. Why not start giving Hughes and Hill a shot. They can’t play any worse.

5. CJ Ham.....what are you doing?!? You’re not gonna run it all the way back. Your job there was to get some yards and HOLD ON TO THE BALL! It would have taken a miracle to win but would have been nice to have a chance.

6. What is it with Bailey and extra points?

7. On our last drive, I would have liked to see a draw play to Mattison on either 3rd & 3 or 4th & 3. We ran a nice one on the previous TD drive. Don’t like the last 2 play calls in that sequence.

8. Why is is that we fall for fake punts every time? In certain situations you need to watch for a fake. That was one of them. It seems like we are always out coached and outsmarted.

9. As I said, Rhodes will be gone next season. With that being said, I’d bring back Waynes on a reasonable deal. If he wants #1 CB money then “see you later”. We really can’t afford to let him go with Hill one strike away from a season long ban. I’m guessing Linval might be on the chopping block too. This defense needs to be retooled. We need a guy that can make a push up the middle. We get no pass pressure from there and are getting gashed with runs up the gut. We are okay on runs that go wide....but up the middle we stink.

10. Good comeback by Kirk but he was helped by a great sideline catch by Kyle, a 30yd DPI for Diggs (I think the only flag thrown on SEA all night) and a broken coverage for Treadwell. Don’t want to take anything away from him because I thought he played okay but the final score could have been a lot worse.

11. Can I hear Russell Wilson say nothing on mic’ed up again?

12. We need to somehow win the division, meaning that we need to run the table and have GB slip against someone. I’m not confident we can do that with our defense playing the way it is.

Excellent summary.

Totally agree on R. Wilson! That repetitive rah-rah shit was sooooooo annoying. I would be like dude STFU!!

What was up with the non-call on the false start on the SEA punt? And one time they had a guy just wander off the field after they broke the huddle and ran a play. Isn't that 12 men in the huddle??

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ush
My $.02 cents
My $.02 cents:

1. Predictable loss. Didn’t know exactly how it was going to happen but, as a Viking fan, you just knew it was. We don’t win these games. It’s either fumbles or stupid penalties, or INT’s or bad play calling or horrible, inept play. It just happens every time and it’s so frustrating.
1.a What a fun game to watch. We were in it, then out of it, then in it again. Two teams really hammering at each other trying to find weaknesses. That last missed pass to the rookie TE was kind of the end of it, but it would have been nice to have a couple of hail-mark tries.

2. I have always been a huge Zimmer supporter but when you have 2 weeks to prepare and your defense plays like that, you have to get the blame. You are the defensive “genius” and your new plan was to play deep cover 2 most of the game?!? Even when they had 6 offensive linemen in most of the game?!?
2.a I thought the D game plan was smart. Play single high and Russell Wilson will eat you alive, his pocket awareness/escapability is so good that you just can't get enough pressure, especially with our weakness up the middle in terms of pass runs. Without that pressure you have to play cover not hurry. Only complaint is not enough variety. We love the disguise with Harry and Harris at the line but if all they are going to do is drift to flats anyway on every play. M

3. Run defense has been bad all season....except against Dallas when Linval was out. Seems like teams are always 2nd and 4 or 2nd and 2. I liked Wilson in for Gedeon but he made some glaring mistakes last night in the run game.
3.a I agree. So Zimmer made the choice to allow the run game to attack us and not weaken the pass coverage. It sort of worked, we do need to figure out a way to create better inside gap pressure. Not sure how but more stunts and interior movement might help.

4. It’s pretty clear that Rhodes won’t be here next year with that contract. Why not start giving Hughes and Hill a shot. They can’t play any worse.
4.a The one I didn't understand was the big TD. Harry was on the line and the other safety was way off to the left. There was no way he wasn't deep responsibility on that play. What was he thinking.

5. CJ Ham.....what are you doing?!? You’re not gonna run it all the way back. Your job there was to get some yards and HOLD ON TO THE BALL! It would have taken a miracle to win but would have been nice to have a chance.
5.a Yep

6. What is it with Bailey and extra points?
6. Make a damn kick.

7. On our last drive, I would have liked to see a draw play to Mattison on either 3rd & 3 or 4th & 3. We ran a nice one on the previous TD drive. Don’t like the last 2 play calls in that sequence.

8. Why is is that we fall for fake punts every time? In certain situations you need to watch for a fake. That was one of them. It seems like we are always out coached and outsmarted.
8a. What a well executed fake though. That was poetry. We should have been ready but it might not have mattered.

9. As I said, Rhodes will be gone next season. With that being said, I’d bring back Waynes on a reasonable deal. If he wants #1 CB money then “see you later”. We really can’t afford to let him go with Hill one strike away from a season long ban. I’m guessing Linval might be on the chopping block too. This defense needs to be retooled. We need a guy that can make a push up the middle. We get no pass pressure from there and are getting gashed with runs up the gut. We are okay on runs that go wide....but up the middle we stink.

10. Good comeback by Kirk but he was helped by a great sideline catch by Kyle, a 30yd DPI for Diggs (I think the only flag thrown on SEA all night) and a broken coverage for Treadwell. Don’t want to take anything away from him because I thought he played okay but the final score could have been a lot worse.
10a. He missed some throws but holy stone hands by our WR's through that last quarter. He also made some really good throws with pressure in his face. IMHO not the problem at all yesterday.

11. Can I hear Russell Wilson say nothing on mic’ed up again?
11.a This made me vomit a little. "Way to go guys" for the 15th time isn't really the model of leadership.

12. We need to somehow win the division, meaning that we need to run the table and have GB slip against someone. I’m not confident we can do that with our defense playing the way it is.

12a. But they might and we have a shot. Especially when/if we get Thielen Back and assuming Cook isn't hurt too bad. Defense will be a challenge no doubt. I think we will see more of we either stop the run or the pass but not both in every game. We just have gotten old is too many places all of a sudden to still be as effective as we were the last few years.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ebergste

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ush
My $.02 cents
My $.02 cents:

1. Predictable loss. Didn’t know exactly how it was going to happen but, as a Viking fan, you just knew it was. We don’t win these games. It’s either fumbles or stupid penalties, or INT’s or bad play calling or horrible, inept play. It just happens every time and it’s so frustrating.
1.a What a fun game to watch. We were in it, then out of it, then in it again. Two teams really hammering at each other trying to find weaknesses. That last missed pass to the rookie TE was kind of the end of it, but it would have been nice to have a couple of hail-mark tries.

2. I have always been a huge Zimmer supporter but when you have 2 weeks to prepare and your defense plays like that, you have to get the blame. You are the defensive “genius” and your new plan was to play deep cover 2 most of the game?!? Even when they had 6 offensive linemen in most of the game?!?
2.a I thought the D game plan was smart. Play single high and Russell Wilson will eat you alive, his pocket awareness/escapability is so good that you just can't get enough pressure, especially with our weakness up the middle in terms of pass runs. Without that pressure you have to play cover not hurry. Only complaint is not enough variety. We love the disguise with Harry and Harris at the line but if all they are going to do is drift to flats anyway on every play. M

3. Run defense has been bad all season....except against Dallas when Linval was out. Seems like teams are always 2nd and 4 or 2nd and 2. I liked Wilson in for Gedeon but he made some glaring mistakes last night in the run game.
3.a I agree. So Zimmer made the choice to allow the run game to attack us and not weaken the pass coverage. It sort of worked, we do need to figure out a way to create better inside gap pressure. Not sure how but more stunts and interior movement might help.

4. It’s pretty clear that Rhodes won’t be here next year with that contract. Why not start giving Hughes and Hill a shot. They can’t play any worse.
4.a The one I didn't understand was the big TD. Harry was on the line and the other safety was way off to the left. There was no way he wasn't deep responsibility on that play. What was he thinking.

5. CJ Ham.....what are you doing?!? You’re not gonna run it all the way back. Your job there was to get some yards and HOLD ON TO THE BALL! It would have taken a miracle to win but would have been nice to have a chance.
5.a Yep

6. What is it with Bailey and extra points?
6. Make a damn kick.

7. On our last drive, I would have liked to see a draw play to Mattison on either 3rd & 3 or 4th & 3. We ran a nice one on the previous TD drive. Don’t like the last 2 play calls in that sequence.

8. Why is is that we fall for fake punts every time? In certain situations you need to watch for a fake. That was one of them. It seems like we are always out coached and outsmarted.
8a. What a well executed fake though. That was poetry. We should have been ready but it might not have mattered.

9. As I said, Rhodes will be gone next season. With that being said, I’d bring back Waynes on a reasonable deal. If he wants #1 CB money then “see you later”. We really can’t afford to let him go with Hill one strike away from a season long ban. I’m guessing Linval might be on the chopping block too. This defense needs to be retooled. We need a guy that can make a push up the middle. We get no pass pressure from there and are getting gashed with runs up the gut. We are okay on runs that go wide....but up the middle we stink.

10. Good comeback by Kirk but he was helped by a great sideline catch by Kyle, a 30yd DPI for Diggs (I think the only flag thrown on SEA all night) and a broken coverage for Treadwell. Don’t want to take anything away from him because I thought he played okay but the final score could have been a lot worse.
10a. He missed some throws but holy stone hands by our WR's through that last quarter. He also made some really good throws with pressure in his face. IMHO not the problem at all yesterday.

11. Can I hear Russell Wilson say nothing on mic’ed up again?
11.a This made me vomit a little. "Way to go guys" for the 15th time isn't really the model of leadership.

12. We need to somehow win the division, meaning that we need to run the table and have GB slip against someone. I’m not confident we can do that with our defense playing the way it is.

12a. But they might and we have a shot. Especially when/if we get Thielen Back and assuming Cook isn't hurt too bad. Defense will be a challenge no doubt. I think we will see more of we either stop the run or the pass but not both in every game. We just have gotten old is too many places all of a sudden to still be as effective as we were the last few years.

Agree with most of your points but.....

Getting gashed by the run is one thing if we stop the pass but we didn’t really take away the pass either. They moved the ball at will and only punted a couple of times if I remember correctly. Any defensive plan that gives up 37 is bad in my humble opinion

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Darren Wolfson
@DWolfsonKSTP
13h13 hours ago
Cook took a tough shot on that right shoulder in the Denver game. Had it surgically repaired in college too. So super concerning that it’s the right shoulder again. #Vikings

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ush

My $.02 cents:

1. Predictable loss. Didn’t know exactly how it was going to happen but, as a Viking fan, you just knew it was. We don’t win these games. It’s either fumbles or stupid penalties, or INT’s or bad play calling or horrible, inept play. It just happens every time and it’s so frustrating.

2. I have always been a huge Zimmer supporter but when you have 2 weeks to prepare and your defense plays like that, you have to get the blame. You are the defensive “genius” and your new plan was to play deep cover 2 most of the game?!? Even when they had 6 offensive linemen in most of the game?!?

3. Run defense has been bad all season....except against Dallas when Linval was out. Seems like teams are always 2nd and 4 or 2nd and 2. I liked Wilson in for Gedeon but he made some glaring mistakes last night in the run game.

4. It’s pretty clear that Rhodes won’t be here next year with that contract. Why not start giving Hughes and Hill a shot. They can’t play any worse.

5. CJ Ham.....what are you doing?!? You’re not gonna run it all the way back. Your job there was to get some yards and HOLD ON TO THE BALL! It would have taken a miracle to win but would have been nice to have a chance.

6. What is it with Bailey and extra points?

7. On our last drive, I would have liked to see a draw play to Mattison on either 3rd & 3 or 4th & 3. We ran a nice one on the previous TD drive. Don’t like the last 2 play calls in that sequence.

8. Why is is that we fall for fake punts every time? In certain situations you need to watch for a fake. That was one of them. It seems like we are always out coached and outsmarted.

9. As I said, Rhodes will be gone next season. With that being said, I’d bring back Waynes on a reasonable deal. If he wants #1 CB money then “see you later”. We really can’t afford to let him go with Hill one strike away from a season long ban. I’m guessing Linval might be on the chopping block too. This defense needs to be retooled. We need a guy that can make a push up the middle. We get no pass pressure from there and are getting gashed with runs up the gut. We are okay on runs that go wide....but up the middle we stink.

10. Good comeback by Kirk but he was helped by a great sideline catch by Kyle, a 30yd DPI for Diggs (I think the only flag thrown on SEA all night) and a broken coverage for Treadwell. Don’t want to take anything away from him because I thought he played okay but the final score could have been a lot worse.

11. Can I hear Russell Wilson say nothing on mic’ed up again?

12. We need to somehow win the division, meaning that we need to run the table and have GB slip against someone. I’m not confident we can do that with our defense playing the way it is.

Excellent summary.

Totally agree on R. Wilson! That repetitive rah-rah shit was sooooooo annoying. I would be like dude STFU!!

What was up with the non-call on the false start on the SEA punt? And one time they had a guy just wander off the field after they broke the huddle and ran a play. Isn't that 12 men in the huddle??

I saw that one too.

Also saw the whole left side of their line move on a big play they had. It was so obvious that Griffen and whoever lined up next to him didn't even go after Wilson.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Not sure linebacker or safety is a place to spend a lot of money in new nfl.

Stud corners and a huge pass rush seem to be most important and linebackers / safety are not going to gloss it over.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/12/03/fourth-and-three-decision-undermines-otherwise-great-night-from-kirk-cousins/

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/12/03/fourth-and-three-decision-undermines-otherwise-great-night-from-kirk-cousins/

i dont think the coaches put them in a great position to succeed in those last two plays

yes, the players need to execute, but we dont have Tom Brady, lets try to put him in a spot to succeed, i think they failed


nobody is perfect, but just seems like ANOTHER spot the we failed on the coaching side

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/12/03/fourth-and-three-decision-undermines-otherwise-great-night-from-kirk-cousins/

i dont think the coaches put them in a great position to succeed in those last two plays

yes, the players need to execute, but we dont have Tom Brady, lets try to put him in a spot to succeed, i think they failed


nobody is perfect, but just seems like ANOTHER spot the we failed on the coaching side

Absolutely agree, Im sure most noticed for maybe first time during a loss on Game Day thread and here after I was not critical of Kirk.

I put this loss squarely on the coaching and HC, with an extra week to prepare his favorite unit the D was hot garbage, there were some blueprints of how teams attacked and limited Wilson and caused Seattle coaches into bad decisions/ playcalling on O, we obviously didnt look at that tape or feel we could execute those type of schemes. Our D coaching mindset is very troubling at times with late or non existant in game adjustments. I hate watching us just keep leaking as the crack in the dam widens throught the game. That is all coaching.

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/12/03/fourth-and-three-decision-undermines-otherwise-great-night-from-kirk-cousins/

i dont think the coaches put them in a great position to succeed in those last two plays

yes, the players need to execute, but we dont have Tom Brady, lets try to put him in a spot to succeed, i think they failed


nobody is perfect, but just seems like ANOTHER spot the we failed on the coaching side

Absolutely agree, Im sure most noticed for maybe first time during a loss on Game Day thread and here after I was not critical of Kirk.

I put this loss squarely on the coaching and HC, with an extra week to prepare his favorite unit the D was hot garbage, there were some blueprints of how teams attacked and limited Wilson and caused Seattle coaches into bad decisions/ playcalling on O, we obviously didnt look at that tape or feel we could execute those type of schemes. Our D coaching mindset is very troubling at times with late or non existant in game adjustments. I hate watching us just keep leaking as the crack in the dam widens throught the game. That is all coaching.

Seattle is 9-2...there is not much of a playbook on how to win....especially on Monday night in Seattle


you just have to play your best game, from coaches down to special teams

we did not do that

IMO

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/12/03/fourth-and-three-decision-undermines-otherwise-great-night-from-kirk-cousins/

i dont think the coaches put them in a great position to succeed in those last two plays

yes, the players need to execute, but we dont have Tom Brady, lets try to put him in a spot to succeed, i think they failed


nobody is perfect, but just seems like ANOTHER spot the we failed on the coaching side

Absolutely agree, Im sure most noticed for maybe first time during a loss on Game Day thread and here after I was not critical of Kirk.

I put this loss squarely on the coaching and HC, with an extra week to prepare his favorite unit the D was hot garbage, there were some blueprints of how teams attacked and limited Wilson and caused Seattle coaches into bad decisions/ playcalling on O, we obviously didnt look at that tape or feel we could execute those type of schemes. Our D coaching mindset is very troubling at times with late or non existant in game adjustments. I hate watching us just keep leaking as the crack in the dam widens throught the game. That is all coaching.

Seattle is 9-2...there is not much of a playbook on how to win....especially on Monday night in Seattle


you just have to play your best game, from coaches down to special teams

we did not do that

IMO

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

Not sure how good of a motivator Zimmer is. It took players publicly calling out Cousins to get him from playing like a bottom half QB to a top 15 QB.

Zimmer seems hesitant to criticize the D after game. We're still a good team yada, yada, yada

Maybe these guys need to be told they are not that good. Good on paper and draft position, but not on the field.

I long thought Barr was either a 4-3 DE or 3-4 LB, has always been out of place on OLB in 4-3
He's at his best using is size and speed, playing down hill.

BTW - did anyone notice when Rhodes went Smith on the sidelines, Smith looked like "whatever dude"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/12/03/fourth-and-three-decision-undermines-otherwise-great-night-from-kirk-cousins/

i dont think the coaches put them in a great position to succeed in those last two plays

yes, the players need to execute, but we dont have Tom Brady, lets try to put him in a spot to succeed, i think they failed


nobody is perfect, but just seems like ANOTHER spot the we failed on the coaching side

Absolutely agree, Im sure most noticed for maybe first time during a loss on Game Day thread and here after I was not critical of Kirk.

I put this loss squarely on the coaching and HC, with an extra week to prepare his favorite unit the D was hot garbage, there were some blueprints of how teams attacked and limited Wilson and caused Seattle coaches into bad decisions/ playcalling on O, we obviously didnt look at that tape or feel we could execute those type of schemes. Our D coaching mindset is very troubling at times with late or non existant in game adjustments. I hate watching us just keep leaking as the crack in the dam widens throught the game. That is all coaching.

Seattle is 9-2...there is not much of a playbook on how to win....especially on Monday night in Seattle


you just have to play your best game, from coaches down to special teams

we did not do that

IMO

As bad as Rhodes was it was probably the run D that lost us the game. Consistent 8 yarders on 1st down it seemed like.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

Not sure how good of a motivator Zimmer is. It took players publicly calling out Cousins to get him from playing like a bottom half QB to a top 15 QB.

Zimmer seems hesitant to criticize the D after game. We're still a good team yada, yada, yada

Maybe these guys need to be told they are not that good. Good on paper and draft position, but not on the field.

I long thought Barr was either a 4-3 DE or 3-4 LB, has always been out of place on OLB in 4-3
He's at his best using is size and speed, playing down hill.

BTW - did anyone notice when Rhodes went Smith on the sidelines, Smith looked like "whatever dude"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/12/03/fourth-and-three-decision-undermines-otherwise-great-night-from-kirk-cousins/

i dont think the coaches put them in a great position to succeed in those last two plays

yes, the players need to execute, but we dont have Tom Brady, lets try to put him in a spot to succeed, i think they failed


nobody is perfect, but just seems like ANOTHER spot the we failed on the coaching side

Absolutely agree, Im sure most noticed for maybe first time during a loss on Game Day thread and here after I was not critical of Kirk.

I put this loss squarely on the coaching and HC, with an extra week to prepare his favorite unit the D was hot garbage, there were some blueprints of how teams attacked and limited Wilson and caused Seattle coaches into bad decisions/ playcalling on O, we obviously didnt look at that tape or feel we could execute those type of schemes. Our D coaching mindset is very troubling at times with late or non existant in game adjustments. I hate watching us just keep leaking as the crack in the dam widens throught the game. That is all coaching.

Seattle is 9-2...there is not much of a playbook on how to win....especially on Monday night in Seattle


you just have to play your best game, from coaches down to special teams

we did not do that

IMO

As bad as Rhodes was it was probably the run D that lost us the game. Consistent 8 yarders on 1st down it seemed like.

The DLine sucked but it hurts when you have to have Harry babysit Rhodes every play and not help in run support.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

Not sure how good of a motivator Zimmer is. It took players publicly calling out Cousins to get him from playing like a bottom half QB to a top 15 QB.

Zimmer seems hesitant to criticize the D after game. We're still a good team yada, yada, yada

Maybe these guys need to be told they are not that good. Good on paper and draft position, but not on the field.

I long thought Barr was either a 4-3 DE or 3-4 LB, has always been out of place on OLB in 4-3
He's at his best using is size and speed, playing down hill.

BTW - did anyone notice when Rhodes went Smith on the sidelines, Smith looked like "whatever dude"

He doesn't criticize them in public that much anymore because he went way over the top in his 1st couple years doing it.