quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

2017 Team was an abberation fueled by good luck and great bounces, the team fed from within with chemistry and self coached exuberance making crazy impromptu plays on strength of scrambling QB with a lucky horse shoe in his pocket...

In spite of Zimmer and his opinions the team rallied from within around themselves to outpreform everyones expectations and almost make it to the big dance...

There in encapsulates Zimmer as a HC and belies his abilities to lead. Some liken it to getting us "over the hump" but truth is Zimmer lead teams dont posess something tangable to beat those better teams on a regular basis. Its not an abberation, its real...

Who knows what the talent on this team could do with differing leadership, Our closest hint would be the 2017 team when Shurm and Case went on their own journey and the entire team rode the high of a new stadium and great team chemistry and open social media, players openly having fun... all to Mike Zimmers total disdain which he called out on a regular basis and then totally clamped down on the following season in his staunch control freak sort of head coaching ways...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

2017 Team was an abberation fueled by good luck and great bounces, the team fed from within with chemistry and self coached exuberance making crazy impromptu plays on strength of scrambling QB with a lucky horse shoe in his pocket...

In spite of Zimmer and his opinions the team rallied from within around themselves to outpreform everyones expectations and almost make it to the big dance...

There in encapsulates Zimmer as a HC and belies his abilities to lead. Some liken it to getting us "over the hump" but truth is Zimmer lead teams dont posess something tangable to beat those better teams on a regular basis. Its not an abberation, its real...

Who knows what the talent on this team could do with differing leadership, Our closest hint would be the 2017 team when Shurm and Case went on their own journey and the entire team rode the high of a new stadium and great team chemistry and open social media, players openly having fun... all to Mike Zimmers total disdain which he called out on a regular basis and then totally clamped down on the following season in his staunch control freak sort of head coaching ways...

Basically any win Zimmer has got is in spite of him. Coordinators went rogue so we had a chance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

2017 Team was an abberation fueled by good luck and great bounces, the team fed from within with chemistry and self coached exuberance making crazy impromptu plays on strength of scrambling QB with a lucky horse shoe in his pocket...

In spite of Zimmer and his opinions the team rallied from within around themselves to outpreform everyones expectations and almost make it to the big dance...

There in encapsulates Zimmer as a HC and belies his abilities to lead. Some liken it to getting us "over the hump" but truth is Zimmer lead teams dont posess something tangable to beat those better teams on a regular basis. Its not an abberation, its real...

Who knows what the talent on this team could do with differing leadership, Our closest hint would be the 2017 team when Shurm and Case went on their own journey and the entire team rode the high of a new stadium and great team chemistry and open social media, players openly having fun... all to Mike Zimmers total disdain which he called out on a regular basis and then totally clamped down on the following season in his staunch control freak sort of head coaching ways...

Basically any win Zimmer has got is in spite of him. Coordinators went rogue so we had a chance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

2017 Team was an abberation fueled by good luck and great bounces, the team fed from within with chemistry and self coached exuberance making crazy impromptu plays on strength of scrambling QB with a lucky horse shoe in his pocket...

In spite of Zimmer and his opinions the team rallied from within around themselves to outpreform everyones expectations and almost make it to the big dance...

There in encapsulates Zimmer as a HC and belies his abilities to lead. Some liken it to getting us "over the hump" but truth is Zimmer lead teams dont posess something tangable to beat those better teams on a regular basis. Its not an abberation, its real...

Who knows what the talent on this team could do with differing leadership, Our closest hint would be the 2017 team when Shurm and Case went on their own journey and the entire team rode the high of a new stadium and great team chemistry and open social media, players openly having fun... all to Mike Zimmers total disdain which he called out on a regular basis and then totally clamped down on the following season in his staunch control freak sort of head coaching ways...

Basically any win Zimmer has got is in spite of him. Coordinators went rogue so we had a chance.

Exactly, sort of like Stef rally win against the Broncs with a white board, or a couple wins going in his own direction for Flip before Zimms head exploded and he fired him... Just like Case going off the play sheet and causing Zimmer to lament wins... Guy is a control freak... AND in biggest games, when it matters MOST Zimmer pluts his total authorian stamp on the game... Then we play Zimmer ball... like how we began the season, and how we played the NFCCG and how we always play a big game in prime time, or against a winning opponent or top opponemts in division... Zimmer ball is a real thing, he admits it and what he expects from his team he leads with this philosophy...

Does it win games, yes against lesser opponents with coaches who play checkers, but when its a chess match, I dont think we can count on the mind of Mike Zimmer...

Sorry, its facts based on data of records he himself compiled... disputable?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

2017 Team was an abberation fueled by good luck and great bounces, the team fed from within with chemistry and self coached exuberance making crazy impromptu plays on strength of scrambling QB with a lucky horse shoe in his pocket...

In spite of Zimmer and his opinions the team rallied from within around themselves to outpreform everyones expectations and almost make it to the big dance...

There in encapsulates Zimmer as a HC and belies his abilities to lead. Some liken it to getting us "over the hump" but truth is Zimmer lead teams dont posess something tangable to beat those better teams on a regular basis. Its not an abberation, its real...

Who knows what the talent on this team could do with differing leadership, Our closest hint would be the 2017 team when Shurm and Case went on their own journey and the entire team rode the high of a new stadium and great team chemistry and open social media, players openly having fun... all to Mike Zimmers total disdain which he called out on a regular basis and then totally clamped down on the following season in his staunch control freak sort of head coaching ways...

Basically any win Zimmer has got is in spite of him. Coordinators went rogue so we had a chance.

I would say with Zimmer being a very conservative coach that likes to kick fgs our margin for error is much slimmer. Our defense being pretty good but not elite makes it tough to win using the classic Zimmer approach. Hopefully our playcalling is much more aggressive this coming week.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

2017 Team was an abberation fueled by good luck and great bounces, the team fed from within with chemistry and self coached exuberance making crazy impromptu plays on strength of scrambling QB with a lucky horse shoe in his pocket...

In spite of Zimmer and his opinions the team rallied from within around themselves to outpreform everyones expectations and almost make it to the big dance...

There in encapsulates Zimmer as a HC and belies his abilities to lead. Some liken it to getting us "over the hump" but truth is Zimmer lead teams dont posess something tangable to beat those better teams on a regular basis. Its not an abberation, its real...

Who knows what the talent on this team could do with differing leadership, Our closest hint would be the 2017 team when Shurm and Case went on their own journey and the entire team rode the high of a new stadium and great team chemistry and open social media, players openly having fun... all to Mike Zimmers total disdain which he called out on a regular basis and then totally clamped down on the following season in his staunch control freak sort of head coaching ways...

Basically any win Zimmer has got is in spite of him. Coordinators went rogue so we had a chance.

Exactly, sort of like Stef rally win against the Broncs with a white board, or a couple wins going in his own direction for Flip before Zimms head exploded and he fired him... Just like Case going off the play sheet and causing Zimmer to lament wins... Guy is a control freak... AND in biggest games, when it matters MOST Zimmer pluts his total authorian stamp on the game... Then we play Zimmer ball... like how we began the season, and how we played the NFCCG and how we always play a big game in prime time, or against a winning opponent or top opponemts in division... Zimmer ball is a real thing, he admits it and what he expects from his team he leads with this philosophy...

Does it win games, yes against lesser opponents with coaches who play checkers, but when its a chess match, I dont think we can count on the mind of Mike Zimmer...

Sorry, its facts based on data of records he himself compiled... disputable?

DeFlip got fired because he liked 7 step drops with a sieve for a OLine.

DeFlip was the Jacksonville O-Coordinator this year. How did Zimmer sabotage that debacle?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

2017 Team was an abberation fueled by good luck and great bounces, the team fed from within with chemistry and self coached exuberance making crazy impromptu plays on strength of scrambling QB with a lucky horse shoe in his pocket...

In spite of Zimmer and his opinions the team rallied from within around themselves to outpreform everyones expectations and almost make it to the big dance...

There in encapsulates Zimmer as a HC and belies his abilities to lead. Some liken it to getting us "over the hump" but truth is Zimmer lead teams dont posess something tangable to beat those better teams on a regular basis. Its not an abberation, its real...

Who knows what the talent on this team could do with differing leadership, Our closest hint would be the 2017 team when Shurm and Case went on their own journey and the entire team rode the high of a new stadium and great team chemistry and open social media, players openly having fun... all to Mike Zimmers total disdain which he called out on a regular basis and then totally clamped down on the following season in his staunch control freak sort of head coaching ways...

Basically any win Zimmer has got is in spite of him. Coordinators went rogue so we had a chance.

Exactly, sort of like Stef rally win against the Broncs with a white board, or a couple wins going in his own direction for Flip before Zimms head exploded and he fired him... Just like Case going off the play sheet and causing Zimmer to lament wins... Guy is a control freak... AND in biggest games, when it matters MOST Zimmer pluts his total authorian stamp on the game... Then we play Zimmer ball... like how we began the season, and how we played the NFCCG and how we always play a big game in prime time, or against a winning opponent or top opponemts in division... Zimmer ball is a real thing, he admits it and what he expects from his team he leads with this philosophy...

Does it win games, yes against lesser opponents with coaches who play checkers, but when its a chess match, I dont think we can count on the mind of Mike Zimmer...

Sorry, its facts based on data of records he himself compiled... disputable?

DeFlip got fired because he liked 7 step drops with a sieve for a OLine.

DeFlip was the Jacksonville O-Coordinator this year. How did Zimmer sabotage that debacle?

This is where debates go sideways... I never said Flip was all that, only stated that he had far different visions for running an O than Zimmer and it was cause for his demise... Flip was never given a fair chance, sort of like that cluster F that we had with the Norv/ Shurm drama we all forget about and honestly thought we might see that some this year with the Kubiak Maffia and Step, but Step knows his boss and is a good yes man...

How Flip would have done things if allowed his total own way to run an O in MN will never be known... what he did with differing results elsewhere is irrelevent, Same goes for Case Keenum and his magic year, you cannot weigh seasons and systems against one another...

It really takes multiple elements within a team to gell along with talent all on same page and buying in. Great coaching is a big part but only one element. Teams that find success on a regular basis do have coaches who understand how to blend these elements with their own philosophy as well as totally trust in their subordants and not micro manage units but let theose coordinators work their magic and not derail or meddle with the results to a negative impact that Zimmer has in ways that were determental to the team chemistry and results...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The comment on the Niner game was "how do you manage to get a fullback to do that kind of pass route" and I thought of Blasingame. I wish that we found a way to keep and use him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

2017 Team was an abberation fueled by good luck and great bounces, the team fed from within with chemistry and self coached exuberance making crazy impromptu plays on strength of scrambling QB with a lucky horse shoe in his pocket...

In spite of Zimmer and his opinions the team rallied from within around themselves to outpreform everyones expectations and almost make it to the big dance...

There in encapsulates Zimmer as a HC and belies his abilities to lead. Some liken it to getting us "over the hump" but truth is Zimmer lead teams dont posess something tangable to beat those better teams on a regular basis. Its not an abberation, its real...

Who knows what the talent on this team could do with differing leadership, Our closest hint would be the 2017 team when Shurm and Case went on their own journey and the entire team rode the high of a new stadium and great team chemistry and open social media, players openly having fun... all to Mike Zimmers total disdain which he called out on a regular basis and then totally clamped down on the following season in his staunch control freak sort of head coaching ways...

Basically any win Zimmer has got is in spite of him. Coordinators went rogue so we had a chance.

Exactly, sort of like Stef rally win against the Broncs with a white board, or a couple wins going in his own direction for Flip before Zimms head exploded and he fired him... Just like Case going off the play sheet and causing Zimmer to lament wins... Guy is a control freak... AND in biggest games, when it matters MOST Zimmer pluts his total authorian stamp on the game... Then we play Zimmer ball... like how we began the season, and how we played the NFCCG and how we always play a big game in prime time, or against a winning opponent or top opponemts in division... Zimmer ball is a real thing, he admits it and what he expects from his team he leads with this philosophy...

Does it win games, yes against lesser opponents with coaches who play checkers, but when its a chess match, I dont think we can count on the mind of Mike Zimmer...

Sorry, its facts based on data of records he himself compiled... disputable?

DeFlip got fired because he liked 7 step drops with a sieve for a OLine.

DeFlip was the Jacksonville O-Coordinator this year. How did Zimmer sabotage that debacle?

This is where debates go sideways... I never said Flip was all that, only stated that he had far different visions for running an O than Zimmer and it was cause for his demise... Flip was never given a fair chance, sort of like that cluster F that we had with the Norv/ Shurm drama we all forget about and honestly thought we might see that some this year with the Kubiak Maffia and Step, but Step knows his boss and is a good yes man...

How Flip would have done things if allowed his total own way to run an O in MN will never be known... what he did with differing results elsewhere is irrelevent, Same goes for Case Keenum and his magic year, you cannot weigh seasons and systems against one another...

It really takes multiple elements within a team to gell along with talent all on same page and buying in. Great coaching is a big part but only one element. Teams that find success on a regular basis do have coaches who understand how to blend these elements with their own philosophy as well as totally trust in their subordants and not micro manage units but let theose coordinators work their magic and not derail or meddle with the results to a negative impact that Zimmer has in ways that were determental to the team chemistry and results...

DeFlip was given every chance.

He wanted to run the offense he had in Philly. Only bad part was Philly had better pass blockers at every position than we have.

Stefanski has come in with basically the same team and made the offense above average for the most part.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This should be kept in mind whenever considering keeping of firing Zimmer. Remember that this is happening at a time when the NFL is a "passing league".

Best Viking Team Defenses in last 25 years (points per game):

1. 2017 (15.8 ppg allowed)
2. 1998 (18.5 ppg allowed)
3. 2019 (18.8 ppg allowed)
4. 2015 (18.9 ppg allowed)
5. 2016 (19.1 ppg allowed)

#SKOL. (Dustin Baker on Twitter)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This should be kept in mind whenever considering keeping of firing Zimmer. Remember that this is happening at a time when the NFL is a "passing league".

Best Viking Team Defenses in last 25 years (points per game):

1. 2017 (15.8 ppg allowed)
2. 1998 (18.5 ppg allowed)
3. 2019 (18.8 ppg allowed)
4. 2015 (18.9 ppg allowed)
5. 2016 (19.1 ppg allowed)

#SKOL. (Dustin Baker on Twitter)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

There is no reason for ANY Vikings fan to have ANY optimism going forward. The entire organization needs a redo starting with the Wilf Brothers who are terrible owners. Sure, they have spent money, but those entrusted to finding and maintaining talent (and paying for the right talent) have entirely failed during their entire tenure as owners.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This should be kept in mind whenever considering keeping of firing Zimmer. Remember that this is happening at a time when the NFL is a "passing league".

Best Viking Team Defenses in last 25 years (points per game):

1. 2017 (15.8 ppg allowed)
2. 1998 (18.5 ppg allowed)
3. 2019 (18.8 ppg allowed)
4. 2015 (18.9 ppg allowed)
5. 2016 (19.1 ppg allowed)

#SKOL. (Dustin Baker on Twitter)

Do those kind of stats numbers win Super Bowls?

What did those kind of stats get Zimmer as DC with the Bengals besides a HC gig for a MN team that now seems stuck much like those Bengals teams never quite being good enough to win the big games...

TRUE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This should be kept in mind whenever considering keeping of firing Zimmer. Remember that this is happening at a time when the NFL is a "passing league".

Best Viking Team Defenses in last 25 years (points per game):

1. 2017 (15.8 ppg allowed)
2. 1998 (18.5 ppg allowed)
3. 2019 (18.8 ppg allowed)
4. 2015 (18.9 ppg allowed)
5. 2016 (19.1 ppg allowed)

#SKOL. (Dustin Baker on Twitter)

Do those kind of stats numbers win Super Bowls?

What did those kind of stats get Zimmer as DC with the Bengals besides a HC gig for a MN team that now seems stuck much like those Bengals teams never quite being good enough to win the big games...

TRUE

If Zimmer would let the offense do it's thing and get his sorry butt out of the way we might be onto something. Too bad that will never happen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

There is no reason for ANY Vikings fan to have ANY optimism going forward. The entire organization needs a redo starting with the Wilf Brothers who are terrible owners. Sure, they have spent money, but those entrusted to finding and maintaining talent (and paying for the right talent) have entirely failed during their entire tenure as owners.

I won't be optimistic until we can get a coach in here that understands present day football as a minimum. Zimmer is as bad as they get in the NFL.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hagar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

There is no reason for ANY Vikings fan to have ANY optimism going forward. The entire organization needs a redo starting with the Wilf Brothers who are terrible owners. Sure, they have spent money, but those entrusted to finding and maintaining talent (and paying for the right talent) have entirely failed during their entire tenure as owners.

I won't be optimistic until we can get a coach in here that understands present day football as a minimum. Zimmer is as bad as they get in the NFL.

Interestingly, there are a few other teams that stress running the ball to open up the offense.
It's not just Zimmer. Sadly it appears that some teams seem to know when we are running
and when we are passing. Are we tipping our hand or just too predictable?

quote:

ORIGINAL: hagar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

There is no reason for ANY Vikings fan to have ANY optimism going forward. The entire organization needs a redo starting with the Wilf Brothers who are terrible owners. Sure, they have spent money, but those entrusted to finding and maintaining talent (and paying for the right talent) have entirely failed during their entire tenure as owners.

I won't be optimistic until we can get a coach in here that understands present day football as a minimum. Zimmer is as bad as they get in the NFL.

Interestingly, there are a few other teams that stress running the ball to open up the offense.
It's not just Zimmer. Sadly it appears that some teams seem to know when we are running
and when we are passing. Are we tipping our hand or just too predictable?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

2017 Team was an abberation fueled by good luck and great bounces, the team fed from within with chemistry and self coached exuberance making crazy impromptu plays on strength of scrambling QB with a lucky horse shoe in his pocket...

In spite of Zimmer and his opinions the team rallied from within around themselves to outpreform everyones expectations and almost make it to the big dance...

There in encapsulates Zimmer as a HC and belies his abilities to lead. Some liken it to getting us "over the hump" but truth is Zimmer lead teams dont posess something tangable to beat those better teams on a regular basis. Its not an abberation, its real...

Who knows what the talent on this team could do with differing leadership, Our closest hint would be the 2017 team when Shurm and Case went on their own journey and the entire team rode the high of a new stadium and great team chemistry and open social media, players openly having fun... all to Mike Zimmers total disdain which he called out on a regular basis and then totally clamped down on the following season in his staunch control freak sort of head coaching ways...

Basically any win Zimmer has got is in spite of him. Coordinators went rogue so we had a chance.

Exactly, sort of like Stef rally win against the Broncs with a white board, or a couple wins going in his own direction for Flip before Zimms head exploded and he fired him... Just like Case going off the play sheet and causing Zimmer to lament wins... Guy is a control freak... AND in biggest games, when it matters MOST Zimmer pluts his total authorian stamp on the game... Then we play Zimmer ball... like how we began the season, and how we played the NFCCG and how we always play a big game in prime time, or against a winning opponent or top opponemts in division... Zimmer ball is a real thing, he admits it and what he expects from his team he leads with this philosophy...

Does it win games, yes against lesser opponents with coaches who play checkers, but when its a chess match, I dont think we can count on the mind of Mike Zimmer...

Sorry, its facts based on data of records he himself compiled... disputable?

DeFlip got fired because he liked 7 step drops with a sieve for a OLine.

DeFlip was the Jacksonville O-Coordinator this year. How did Zimmer sabotage that debacle?

This is where debates go sideways... I never said Flip was all that, only stated that he had far different visions for running an O than Zimmer and it was cause for his demise... Flip was never given a fair chance, sort of like that cluster F that we had with the Norv/ Shurm drama we all forget about and honestly thought we might see that some this year with the Kubiak Maffia and Step, but Step knows his boss and is a good yes man...

How Flip would have done things if allowed his total own way to run an O in MN will never be known... what he did with differing results elsewhere is irrelevent, Same goes for Case Keenum and his magic year, you cannot weigh seasons and systems against one another... BTW I was on record saying from start that hiring Flip and then going after Cousins was a huge mistake, Kirk did not fit Flips system, Case honestly would have much better, but we will never know now and honestly with Zimmer it likely would have all flames out anyways...

It really takes multiple elements within a team to gell along with talent all on same page and buying in. Great coaching is a big part but only one element. Teams that find success on a regular basis do have coaches who understand how to blend these elements with their own philosophy as well as totally trust in their subordants and not micro manage units but let theose coordinators work their magic and not derail or meddle with the results to a negative impact that Zimmer has in ways that were determental to the team chemistry and results...