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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 11:05:45 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Simple, you keep Griffen, Weatherly and Wilson.

It isn't that simple....I think Kearse, Weatherly, Wilson, and Alexander are more important with Griffen being questionable (with Hercules, Holmes, Weatherly, etc. now in the fold) and Rhodes, Rudolph, and a few others needing to take a pay cut.

Don't forget about Harris.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1026

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 11:16:35 AM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

I was critical of re-signing Kyle Rudolph, but a couple things are making me think I was wrong. Reportedly he showed up in the best shape of his career. That's one, but number two is bigger for me. Reportedly he has never blocked as well as he is doing thus far this season. He did almost score a TD yesterday and did set one up with a first down near the goal line. I'm thinking that the drafting of Irv Smith and the subsequent discussions of cutting or re-sign him have motivated him and he looks the part of being a solid TE to me. Next year? I don't know. Let's see how this year pans out.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 1027

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 11:19:43 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online

One of the big problems with being cash strapped is that we were unable to extend some of the young guys early.

This may be scoffed at by some but extending these guys a year early results in a cheaper deal than waiting until they become UFA's.

ie.. Harris, Kearse, Alexander.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1028

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 11:25:17 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I was critical of re-signing Kyle Rudolph, but a couple things are making me think I was wrong. Reportedly he showed up in the best shape of his career. That's one, but number two is bigger for me. Reportedly he has never blocked as well as he is doing thus far this season. He did almost score a TD yesterday and did set one up with a first down near the goal line. I'm thinking that the drafting of Irv Smith and the subsequent discussions of cutting or re-sign him have motivated him and he looks the part of being a solid TE to me. Next year? I don't know. Let's see how this year pans out.

I think Rudolph being such a good dude in the community was a major factor with this extension.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1029

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 11:30:01 AM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

A few tweets on PFF grades.

https://twitter.com/eric_j_thompson/status/1176144169397575687?s=19

https://twitter.com/eric_j_thompson/status/1176146873712877568?s=19

https://twitter.com/eric_j_thompson/status/1176151827999592448?s=19

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 1030

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 11:30:39 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I was critical of re-signing Kyle Rudolph, but a couple things are making me think I was wrong. Reportedly he showed up in the best shape of his career. That's one, but number two is bigger for me. Reportedly he has never blocked as well as he is doing thus far this season. He did almost score a TD yesterday and did set one up with a first down near the goal line. I'm thinking that the drafting of Irv Smith and the subsequent discussions of cutting or re-sign him have motivated him and he looks the part of being a solid TE to me. Next year? I don't know. Let's see how this year pans out.

I think Rudolph being such a good dude in the community was a major factor with this extension.

He's a good looking white guy that played at Notre Dame. These 'reports' of his good blocking have been mentioned for years. They aren't real. He's a poor blocker - always has been.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 1031

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 11:44:26 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27431
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

I wasn't happy at first with Rudolph's #'s but his contract is a facade....3.35 cap hit this year...they basically are forcing him to come in looking good next year too to get the 7 million base or they will restructure it....this will be Robison Part II.

Resigning Rudolph actually helped the cap. Same as Barr if you look at what he made 2018 (12.3 million versus 5.5 million cap hit 2019).

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 9/23/2019 11:47:52 AM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 1032

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 11:48:14 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I was critical of re-signing Kyle Rudolph, but a couple things are making me think I was wrong. Reportedly he showed up in the best shape of his career. That's one, but number two is bigger for me. Reportedly he has never blocked as well as he is doing thus far this season. He did almost score a TD yesterday and did set one up with a first down near the goal line. I'm thinking that the drafting of Irv Smith and the subsequent discussions of cutting or re-sign him have motivated him and he looks the part of being a solid TE to me. Next year? I don't know. Let's see how this year pans out.

This is from the article you linked a few days ago and it's referencing 'the play' where Cousins threw the INT in the corner of the endzone.

Not sure what Kyle Rudolph’s assignment was there, as he neither ran a route nor blocked anybody. But had he done a whip route or little post-corner route he may have provided Cousins with a better target than Diggs. Alternatively, he could have helped block Lowry, which would’ve given Cousins a better opportunity to at least run for a short gain. Lining him up on the opposite side for a shallower or trailing crossing route would’ve been more effective in any case.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 1033

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 12:21:12 PM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I thought for 8M it was a decent deal. I didn't expect him to play at his ProBowl level. I thought we'd also see lower snap counts for him, more weatherly and obi wan.

next season griffen's cap hit is $13.9m...from my prospective he's more valuable than rudolph or barr right now, but we paid those two big time for the next couple of seasons and that's really going to hurt our attempt to keep some of our solid younger players - harris, weatherly, alexander and maybe include kearse, wilson in there, too....

wilson looked good filling in for barr last night...
.

.

.

.

There's also an opt-out clause for PT and I think @ 6 sacks, pretty low and it looks inevitable that Griff becomes a FA.

I wanted Ruddy traded, thought his cap space was too valuable for what he produces. I was ok with letting him play his final year out. Barr, from what I read is a pretty team friendly deal, not a lot of dead money later. I don't see what Zimmer sees, that opposing teams have to game plan for Barr, but that's one of many areas I would defer on. So I was ok with the re-signing.

Tough decision ahead. I would have to think the following guys are gone or restructured:

Griffith.
Reif
Waynes

That's about 25M off the books if I remember right.

When do the following underperform vs contract?
Joseph
Rhodes
Hitman

Good post. Fans tend to simultaneously over- and under-value their own players, but teams can afford to do neither without repercussions. The Patriots' ongoing success is in large part understanding what is truly valuable and also anticipating the trends you cite in the last part of your post. We've groomed DEs, so maybe Grif can move on with less impact than say Smith (if Kearse turns out to be a better utility than full-time player).

Post #: 1034

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 12:26:32 PM

kevinemmer

Posts: 4659
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Bozeman, MT
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I was critical of re-signing Kyle Rudolph, but a couple things are making me think I was wrong. Reportedly he showed up in the best shape of his career. That's one, but number two is bigger for me. Reportedly he has never blocked as well as he is doing thus far this season. He did almost score a TD yesterday and did set one up with a first down near the goal line. I'm thinking that the drafting of Irv Smith and the subsequent discussions of cutting or re-sign him have motivated him and he looks the part of being a solid TE to me. Next year? I don't know. Let's see how this year pans out.

I think Rudolph being such a good dude in the community was a major factor with this extension.

He's a good looking white guy that played at Notre Dame. These 'reports' of his good blocking have been mentioned for years. They aren't real. He's a poor blocker - always has been.

Yep,

His re-signing is a real head-scratcher/hair puller.

Barr too, but less so than Rudy. Tall Cotton Baby for whatcha got.

When was last time Barr put up numbers like Wilson's yesterday?
Yeah, Wilson bit on the flea-flicker, but the rest of his day was very good.
Barr is a ghost for long stretches.
Maybe he's so smart he's out there over-thinking everything.

Good win!

(Zim should have had The "Fixer" or Harris shadowing their TE-Waller?)

Now let's dismantle the Bears and get on a roll.

Post #: 1035

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 12:27:13 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I was critical of re-signing Kyle Rudolph, but a couple things are making me think I was wrong. Reportedly he showed up in the best shape of his career. That's one, but number two is bigger for me. Reportedly he has never blocked as well as he is doing thus far this season. He did almost score a TD yesterday and did set one up with a first down near the goal line. I'm thinking that the drafting of Irv Smith and the subsequent discussions of cutting or re-sign him have motivated him and he looks the part of being a solid TE to me. Next year? I don't know. Let's see how this year pans out.

I think Rudolph being such a good dude in the community was a major factor with this extension.

He's a good looking white guy that played at Notre Dame. These 'reports' of his good blocking have been mentioned for years. They aren't real. He's a poor blocker - always has been.

Hard to believe we drafted a black TE from Bama, huh?

Post #: 1036

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 12:29:23 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinemmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I was critical of re-signing Kyle Rudolph, but a couple things are making me think I was wrong. Reportedly he showed up in the best shape of his career. That's one, but number two is bigger for me. Reportedly he has never blocked as well as he is doing thus far this season. He did almost score a TD yesterday and did set one up with a first down near the goal line. I'm thinking that the drafting of Irv Smith and the subsequent discussions of cutting or re-sign him have motivated him and he looks the part of being a solid TE to me. Next year? I don't know. Let's see how this year pans out.

I think Rudolph being such a good dude in the community was a major factor with this extension.

He's a good looking white guy that played at Notre Dame. These 'reports' of his good blocking have been mentioned for years. They aren't real. He's a poor blocker - always has been.

Yep,

His re-signing is a real head-scratcher/hair puller.

Barr too, but less so than Rudy. Tall Cotton Baby for whatcha got.

Barr's a good looking white guy? Who knew?

Post #: 1037

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 12:30:45 PM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 39282
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: online

We won. Handily, and we are have a gripefest about Kyle Rudolph.

This place is fun.

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”

Post #: 1038

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 12:49:35 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

We won. Handily, and we are have a gripefest about Kyle Rudolph.

This place is fun.

It's the nature of the beast.

Post #: 1039

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 1:05:58 PM

ambear

Posts: 4387
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: Fort Lauderdale
Status: offline

I live in PA, listened to both Eagle, and Steelers sports talk. The bitchfest makes this place look tame.

Post #: 1040

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 1:09:07 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28612
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The best thing about the game for me was the play of Irv Smith, Jr. It wasn't just his pass catching, but also his blocking. He's a force to be reckoned with.

https://twitter.com/vikingsspin/status/1175869453378183168?s=19

I loved the pick at the time, looks like it will pay off. Rudy has to be OK with Irv getting the majority of TE targets though. It will benefit Rudy if he gets less attention from D anyway.

I wish he would have gotten less attention from our front office.

Agree, love Rudy the guy, but I was advocating him as a cut candidate, definitely not an extension.

A real head scratcher for sure. We like to hold on to players too long and overpay for some strange reason.

Bottomline is you can't change from 1969 to 2019 in a year, let alone a single offseason.

These types of transitions take time. Give it three years.

Post #: 1041

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 1:13:20 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28612
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

On the radio this morning, Ben Leber said Eric Wilson is one of the Vikes best three linebackers, and as such should be a starter in three-linebacker sets. Has made a difference just about every time he's filled in.

I agree with this. Love his speed and athleticism.

Wilson's mom is all like "I told you so!"

Post #: 1042

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 1:18:47 PM

jbusse

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

Nice picture of Mattison's hurdle:

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/c5uWcD3VGnan59jglj9K355hb44=/0x0:5171x3455/620x413/filters:focal(1972x1128:2798x1954):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/65302118/usa_today_13401350.0.jpg

Post #: 1043

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 1:19:12 PM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

We won. Handily, and we are have a gripefest about Kyle Rudolph.

This place is fun.

If all you are looking for is a nice euphoric feeling from a win then what do you need a discussion forum for?

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 1044

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 1:21:05 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28612
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Our 2020 cap is currently at 202,880

The cap has been increasing around 10ml per year lately so the 2020 cap would be at 198ml if this trend continues.

It's not good. Here's a list of our free agents for next year. Then also figure in rookies.

Everson Griffen DE 32 MIN - $14,500,000 CO -
Trae Waynes CB 28 MIN TBD $3,236,092 UFA -
Anthony Harris SS 28 MIN TBD $3,095,000 UFA -
Rashod Hill G 28 MIN TBD $2,025,000 UFA -
Mackensie Alexander CB 26 MIN TBD $1,079,076 UFA -
Dan Bailey K 32 MIN TBD $1,000,000 UFA -
Britton Colquitt P 35 MIN TBD $930,000 UFA -
Sean Mannion QB 28 MIN TBD $895,000 UFA -
Dakota Dozier LT 29 MIN TBD $895,000 UFA -
Ameer Abdullah RB 27 MIN TBD $810,000 UFA -
Brett Jones C 29 MIN TBD $720,000 UFA -
Josh Doctson WR 27 MIN TBD $720,000 UFA -
C.J. Ham FB 27 MIN TBD $645,000 RFA -
Kentrell Brothers OLB 27 MIN TBD $643,170 UFA -
David Morgan TE 27 MIN TBD $618,864 UFA -
Jayron Kearse S 26 MIN TBD $601,056 UFA -
Stephen Weatherly DE 26 MIN TBD $585,000 UFA -
Devante Downs ILB 24 MIN TBD $570,000 ERFA -
Tashawn Bower DE 25 MIN TBD $560,000 RFA -
Eric Wilson OLB 25 MIN TBD $558,333 RFA -
Nate Meadors CB 23 MIN TBD $495,000 ERFA -

Try to restructure Rudolph.
Sign Waynes, Harris, Alexander, Kearse.
Sign Weatherly and maybe cut or restructure Griffen.
Sign Wilson.
Sign Jones.

Post #: 1045

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 1:21:27 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

With regards to the self-flagelletory posts regarding Cousins being the QB on the losing side of 3 of the 13 games in which the losing teams average 7.1 YPP or more, one of those games Cousins was 22/32 322 yards 3 TDs 0 INTS, a 2nd one he was 41/53 449 yards 3 TDs 0 INTs. As was completely obvious at the time that "fact" was dispensed around the Interweb, the real reason for Cousins name showing up on the list is that the Redskins defense when Cousins played there was a complete sieve. But you self flaggerators already knew that, you should have been embarrassed by your transparency.

Post #: 1046

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 1:23:14 PM

Karl Juhnke

Posts: 13027
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Nice picture of Mattison's hurdle:

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/c5uWcD3VGnan59jglj9K355hb44=/0x0:5171x3455/620x413/filters:focal(1972x1128:2798x1954):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/65302118/usa_today_13401350.0.jpg

That's just like the 'shot' I took with the pause button. I can't be the only one who does that. After a great play, I play sports photographer, rewind and hit pause to try and get the best shot.

Post #: 1047

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 1:27:50 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28612
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I was critical of re-signing Kyle Rudolph, but a couple things are making me think I was wrong. Reportedly he showed up in the best shape of his career. That's one, but number two is bigger for me. Reportedly he has never blocked as well as he is doing thus far this season. He did almost score a TD yesterday and did set one up with a first down near the goal line. I'm thinking that the drafting of Irv Smith and the subsequent discussions of cutting or re-sign him have motivated him and he looks the part of being a solid TE to me. Next year? I don't know. Let's see how this year pans out.

Pretty sad if his motivation was Irv Smith Jr.

Post #: 1048

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 2:19:02 PM

Karl Juhnke

Posts: 13027
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I was critical of re-signing Kyle Rudolph, but a couple things are making me think I was wrong. Reportedly he showed up in the best shape of his career. That's one, but number two is bigger for me. Reportedly he has never blocked as well as he is doing thus far this season. He did almost score a TD yesterday and did set one up with a first down near the goal line. I'm thinking that the drafting of Irv Smith and the subsequent discussions of cutting or re-sign him have motivated him and he looks the part of being a solid TE to me. Next year? I don't know. Let's see how this year pans out.

Pretty sad if his motivation was Irv Smith Jr.

Whatever the reason, They're both pretty good receiving tight ends. That could make things real interesting. A two tight end offense that could just as easily be run or pass oriented.

Post #: 1049

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2019 2:19:38 PM

joejitsu

Posts: 15424
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline

Should we get on the phone with Aldrick Robinson's agent to check if he is interested in coming back? Beebe seems to be injured and we are really thin at wr right now.

Post #: 1050