quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Interesting that a defensive guy like Zimmer has Cousins as his ride or die, which is how this likely plays out.

What I'd like to know is what level of analysis Spielman put into the decision to sign Cousins. Most of us are good enough armchair analysts to recognize that his passing stats as a Redskin looked pretty good compared to what Viking quarterbacks achieved in recent years (4,000+ yards, etc.). I was in favor of signing him, but analyzing KC's positives and negatives was not my full time job. Did the Viking scouts look closely at how he did under pressure, during periods when his O line wasn't at its best? It's difficult to believe that these shortcomings weren't evident during his Redskins years (a leopard can't change its spots) . My sense is that Spielman prides himself on doing his homework, so I wonder what went wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Interesting that a defensive guy like Zimmer has Cousins as his ride or die, which is how this likely plays out.

What I'd like to know is what level of analysis Spielman put into the decision to sign Cousins. Most of us are good enough armchair analysts to recognize that his passing stats as a Redskin looked pretty good compared to what Viking quarterbacks achieved in recent years (4,000+ yards, etc.). I was in favor of signing him, but analyzing KC's positives and negatives was not my full time job. Did the Viking scouts look closely at how he did under pressure, during periods when his O line wasn't at its best? It's difficult to believe that these shortcomings weren't evident during his Redskins years (a leopard can't change its spots). My sense is that Spielman prides himself on doing his homework, so I wonder what went wrong.

Spiels believed in Kirk's smile... There was and still is great upside in Kirk with right system and coaching to be an 8 plus game a season winner... We likely thought we could get more out of him and Im sure that with the recent hire of Flip he was very familiar with Kirk and had some major say as well setting up the captain for his new offense...

Plus there was little alternatives as everyone here kept pointing out... no one trusted our three QBs and options were limited beyond the tempting stats and arm of Kirk...

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Interesting that a defensive guy like Zimmer has Cousins as his ride or die, which is how this likely plays out.

What I'd like to know is what level of analysis Spielman put into the decision to sign Cousins. Most of us are good enough armchair analysts to recognize that his passing stats as a Redskin looked pretty good compared to what Viking quarterbacks achieved in recent years (4,000+ yards, etc.). I was in favor of signing him, but analyzing KC's positives and negatives was not my full time job. Did the Viking scouts look closely at how he did under pressure, during periods when his O line wasn't at its best? It's difficult to believe that these shortcomings weren't evident during his Redskins years (a leopard can't change its spots). My sense is that Spielman prides himself on doing his homework, so I wonder what went wrong.

Spiels believed in Kirk's smile... There was and still is great upside in Kirk with right system and coaching to be an 8 plus game a season winner... We likely thought we could get more out of him and Im sure that with the recent hire of Flip he was very familiar with Kirk and had some major say as well setting up the captain for his new offense...

Plus there was little alternatives as everyone here kept pointing out... no one trusted our three QBs and options were limited beyond the tempting stats and arm of Kirk...

Is drafting a quarterback not considered acceptable except in rebuilding mode? Were the Vikings unwilling to wait on the development of a rookie QB, factoring in the risk that the rookie doesn't develop? In hindsight, win now approach has its own risks, especially when it relies heavily on the development of O-line draft picks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Todays QB must be of strong resolve and on page with his OC and coaching, they must game plan and execute at a high degree in the passing game. There must be a total commitment between play caller and QB to trust one another and understand that there is a given freedom to audible out of a play at seconds notice and shift to something the signal caller sees as a better option to what the defense is showing in seconds pre snap.

We dont have this... its multi phases of fault to blame... Zimmer is a control freak, and it shows with his systems and mantra...

Flip tried to install some things, hell even Case went off the sheet and did his own thing and it drove Zimm nuts... wins be damned... Zimmer needs total control and total uniformity to his vision...

Thats what we have this year, likely Zimmers final year, is totally Zimmers vision...

Win a playoff game or he's gone. I don't think that's unfair at this point but who knows what the Wilfs will do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

If Theilen and Diggs start chirping full throttle to the media I think at that point you have full meltdown.

They can’t bench Cousins because Zimm and Speilman both know they are fired when they do that.

Thielen is already chirping:

Adam Thielen: "At some point, you're not going to be able to run the ball for 180 yards, even with the best running back in the NFL. That's when you have to be able to throw the ball. ... You have to be able to hit the deep balls."

Feels like we are at a real crossroads here. A loss in NY and the season is toast. If I'm this frustrated with Zimmers archaic BS then the players heads are probably about to explode.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ush

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ush

My $.02

1. Cousins is like Ponder 2.0. No pocket presence and scared to throw INT’s so he becomes Checkdown Charlie. How many targets to Ham?? If we knew we were gonna use him that much we should have kept Blasingame.

2. Not saying the oline was good yesterday but Cousins had time to throw in the 1st half but took too long to make his reads. After halftime the sideline reporter said that Zimmer told her Cousins needed to not hold onto the ball so long. Shortly after that he was strip sacked by Mack.

3. There should be a TE on whatever side Mack lines up.....every....single....play

4. I don’t mind Zimmer not saying much after the game when it comes to evaluating individual players. He made it clear that he wasn’t happy with Cousins’ play. Said they talked about ball security the night before. That being said, we needed an explanation on that inexplicable TO call at the end of the half that gifted the Bears 3 points.

5, Also, Zimmer needs to explain why the corners were playing so soft. He wouldn’t elaborate during his press conference. Isn’t he in charge of the defense?!?

6. Irv Smith looks very good. He should be starting over Rudolph

7. I feel like I’ve been saying this for years but where are the offensive adjustments. Stefanski hasn’t been able to put a solid game plan together when playing a good defense. Seems to have no answers. If that is because of Cousins just not executing then okay. But I think it’s a combination of both.

8. These games are almost unwatchable because of all the flags and reviews. The NFL needs to do something soon.

9. I really think Rhodes is done. In the least, he is not a guy that should be following around the other team’s top WR anymore. He got toasted vs. GB and this week was no better.

10. Chase Daniels? We let him sustain long drives against our vaunted defense?

11. We are a different team at home. On the road we are just plain crap. Anyone thinking we are gonna walk into NJ and win easy next week isn’t paying attention. Every thing was lined up perfectly for us vs. the Bears. No Watts, no Smith, no Nichols, no Gabriel and their starting QB goes down on the first drive. Imagine us losing Linval, Griffin, Kendricks, Thielen and Mannnion trotting out there. Would we still dominate the other team?

Great summary! Not much I could add for my own $0.02.

I don't think XR is done.

We needed a few of those double-A-gap blitzes. Our plan was to force CHI to dink and dunk....and they were happy to do just that. Control the clock, wear down the defense, negate our pass rush....

Our game plan on offense should have been much more based on spreading them out and hitting them with slants and drags.

Bradbury Egg struggled again. Missed a couple of huge blocks on screens that would have gone a long ways. Bull rushed on others.

Speaking of bull-rushed, Cook got trucked on one play bad.

Saying Rhodes is done might have been too strong. Done as a top-rated, follow the #1 WR around the field guy is more along the lines of what I was thinking. He can still play and is very physical/good tackler, but has trouble staying with elite WR’s.

I think our best line is with Kline healthy and Dozier replacing Elflein. I think that would help Bradbury. Having Elf next to him hurts IMO.

That play with Cook was brutal. They showed an earlier play where the LB just faked and went around him. I think he was expecting that again and got knocked on his butt.

One other thing I forgot to add. Teams are chipping on Hunter and Griffin is taking advantage of being singled but we seem to be getting zero push up the middle. We coulda used a guy like Suh next to Linval. It’s hard to have an elite D without getting any pressure in the QB’s face.

Very good observations!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

Cousins is not getting benched any time soon by a long stretch. Let's just be real.

I consider him to be barely above average, but his play is not the only reason we lost. And it is all not on coaching either.

Diggs fumbled that ball in CHI territory when we had some mojo going. Cook got juked and whiffed on some blocks. Bradbury struggled at times.

I personally felt we had about a 10% chance to win this game. We always play poorly there. Their front against our OL on that field favors them.

Defense could have played better, but held them to 16 points, on the road, skewed TOP, and -2 in TO differential.

Team has a ways to go to improve, but it is not the grease fire we sometimes feel like it is Monday after a loss. Look around the NFL....the Puke, Cowpukes, Lambs,etc. all with ugly losses.

I don't think the team is about ready to implode and don't take AT's comments as just about Cousins. I think he is calling out the whole offense.

*shrugs*

Get back to work and go beat the NYG!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

Nothing wrong with playing like the 70s....you just need an elite OL to do that....

Not in today’s NFL. Too many flags for defensive holding PI and roughing QB to just ignore it. Those yards are free money.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

*We have the next four weeks to get right (while also winning), because starting Nov 3 we go at KC, at Dallas, Broncos, at Seattle, Lions, at Chargers, Packers, Bears.

*If we are going to play that soft in the secondary, we may as well play Cover 2 and get some interceptions while containing mobile QBs better.

*The biggest personnel problem on the team is the OL, and it's not even close. Kirk has been bad, there doesn't seem to be a lot of open receivers downfield, and the defense is not aggressive. All that is true. But Kirk is constantly under pressure, the running game succeeds, seemingly, mostly because the wide zone doesn't require OL to hold blocks and there can be breakdowns rendered moot by cutback lanes. That's great, but it doesn't work as well against fast defenses. And it's easier to cover when you only send two WRs out while everyone else makes up for the horrible OL and maybe releases short. Also, the defense has to be close to perfect because the ball is going to get turned over if the QB has no time.

*This is not to soft-pedal the flaws of Kirk and the coaching staff, but Brady and Belicheck wouldn't succeed with this crew up front---though they'd do better.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

*We have the next four weeks to get right (while also winning), because starting Nov 3 we go at KC, at Dallas, Broncos, at Seattle, Lions, at Chargers, Packers, Bears.

*If we are going to play that soft in the secondary, we may as well play Cover 2 and get some interceptions while containing mobile QBs better.

*The biggest personnel problem on the team is the OL, and it's not even close. Kirk has been bad, there doesn't seem to be a lot of open receivers downfield, and the defense is not aggressive. All that is true. But Kirk is constantly under pressure, the running game succeeds, seemingly, mostly because the wide zone doesn't require OL to hold blocks and there can be breakdowns rendered moot by cutback lanes. That's great, but it doesn't work as well against fast defenses. And it's easier to cover when you only send two WRs out while everyone else makes up for the horrible OL and maybe releases short. Also, the defense has to be close to perfect because the ball is going to get turned over if the QB has no time.

*This is not to soft-pedal the flaws of Kirk and the coaching staff, but Brady and Belicheck wouldn't succeed with this crew up front---though they'd do better.

Excellent post. Our OL is easily the biggest issue on this team. Has been for a long time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Two peas in a pod...

what's Zimmer's record against winning teams?

I looked it up. Including playoffs, the #Vikings are 13-27 (.325) against teams that had a winning record coming into the game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

*We have the next four weeks to get right (while also winning), because starting Nov 3 we go at KC, at Dallas, Broncos, at Seattle, Lions, at Chargers, Packers, Bears.

*If we are going to play that soft in the secondary, we may as well play Cover 2 and get some interceptions while containing mobile QBs better.

*The biggest personnel problem on the team is the OL, and it's not even close. Kirk has been bad, there doesn't seem to be a lot of open receivers downfield, and the defense is not aggressive. All that is true. But Kirk is constantly under pressure, the running game succeeds, seemingly, mostly because the wide zone doesn't require OL to hold blocks and there can be breakdowns rendered moot by cutback lanes. That's great, but it doesn't work as well against fast defenses. And it's easier to cover when you only send two WRs out while everyone else makes up for the horrible OL and maybe releases short. Also, the defense has to be close to perfect because the ball is going to get turned over if the QB has no time.

*This is not to soft-pedal the flaws of Kirk and the coaching staff, but Brady and Belicheck wouldn't succeed with this crew up front---though they'd do better.

Excellent post. Our OL is easily the biggest issue on this team. Has been for a long time.

I put line and Cousins about equal. Zimmer being the biggest problem imo. Cousins should be able to make a play once in a while in big moments for what hes being paid. All I see is a giant dud everytime we need a play.  

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

*We have the next four weeks to get right (while also winning), because starting Nov 3 we go at KC, at Dallas, Broncos, at Seattle, Lions, at Chargers, Packers, Bears.

*If we are going to play that soft in the secondary, we may as well play Cover 2 and get some interceptions while containing mobile QBs better.

*The biggest personnel problem on the team is the OL, and it's not even close. Kirk has been bad, there doesn't seem to be a lot of open receivers downfield, and the defense is not aggressive. All that is true. But Kirk is constantly under pressure, the running game succeeds, seemingly, mostly because the wide zone doesn't require OL to hold blocks and there can be breakdowns rendered moot by cutback lanes. That's great, but it doesn't work as well against fast defenses. And it's easier to cover when you only send two WRs out while everyone else makes up for the horrible OL and maybe releases short. Also, the defense has to be close to perfect because the ball is going to get turned over if the QB has no time.

*This is not to soft-pedal the flaws of Kirk and the coaching staff, but Brady and Belicheck wouldn't succeed with this crew up front---though they'd do better.

Excellent post. Our OL is easily the biggest issue on this team. Has been for a long time.

I put line and Cousins about equal. Zimmer being the biggest problem imo. Cousins should be able to make a play once in a while in big moments for what hes being paid. All I see is a giant dud everytime we need a play.  

Obvious the team sees Kirk as a liability to the point of trying to mask his weakness now with entire change of style and its not working at all, yes the poor OL is highlighting glaring QB flaws but its much much deeper and dives into an area most in football hate to address, especially old school football guys like Zimmer will have no part of its discussion as a place in men and the game... Its an area which our state of the art new facility should address but this regime has yet to embrace, like many other teams... It let down Everson Griffin in his biggest moment of need last year and its not there for Kirk or any other player that may need some coaching in the mental health department. Its the monkey on our teams back and its about to grow wings and carry our season away...

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Has anyone had any luck figuring out what happened on the FG/Punt/Vikes-called-a-timeout play? Did we have 12 men on the field or did Zimmer just get jumpy? I paused the replay over and over and could only ever count 10 Vikes on the field but the angles weren't the greatest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

The Bears appeared content to take a delay-of-game penalty. But Zimmer called a timeout at the last second with 2:02 on the clock, as it appeared the Vikings had 12 men on the field, which presumably wouldn’t have been called if the Bears didn’t snap the ball.

Given a timeout to reassess, the Bears sent their offense back onto the field and converted on a 5-yard completion to Anthony Miller. They turned that second chance into a field goal as time expired for a 10-0 halftime lead.

“That was a bad mistake. My fault,” Zimmer said.

Asked if he called timeout because his team had 12 men on the field, Zimmer declined to give specifics.

“I’ll take the blame for it,” he said.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

The Bears appeared content to take a delay-of-game penalty. But Zimmer called a timeout at the last second with 2:02 on the clock, as it appeared the Vikings had 12 men on the field, which presumably wouldn’t have been called if the Bears didn’t snap the ball.

Given a timeout to reassess, the Bears sent their offense back onto the field and converted on a 5-yard completion to Anthony Miller. They turned that second chance into a field goal as time expired for a 10-0 halftime lead.

“That was a bad mistake. My fault,” Zimmer said.

Asked if he called timeout because his team had 12 men on the field, Zimmer declined to give specifics.

“I’ll take the blame for it,” he said.

I can't wait to get rid of the fake tough guy act and get someone that's willing to be "smart". If Zimmer can evolve and start listening cool! But he better hurry up cuz time is wasting.