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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 7:42:56 AM   
bstinger


Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

Watching the game today really has me excited about watching Twins/Yankees.

I've always kind of backed Zimmer but watching a Bears' team with 5-6 starters out just dominate us has me resigned to expect a maybe .500 year.

I don't even like baseball and I agree with you. It sucks when you play a team that's decent and it's pretty much a certainty your team loses. Not much fun in that.


The boys never play well Soldier. The only time the Vikes can seem win there is when they're on their way to a division title and the Bears are headed for a lottery pick.

The guys need to quit staying out so late enjoying the Chicago night life or something. They looked lethargic compared to the Bears who were flying around the field.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan
Post #: 1451
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 7:48:33 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

Maybe the next time we play a good run defense, we could go with 4 TE sets instead of 3.

Our football philosophy is just as bad as our QB play.

Yeah we cram everything together and then blame the line when they can't perfectly block a great defense that knows exactly what we are going to do. You're not even giving a chance to the line at that point.


This is true. The offensive philosophy is creating a cluster f at the line of scrimmage. I did find Kubiak's system wasn't the most flexible in his time with the Broncos, Ravens and Texans. Ideally if we had Kubiak's base with DeFilipo's passing concepts we may have something.

I was actually thinking the same thing.

We all railed on Flip but he had an effective passing attack. He actually made Cousins look servicable.

I think everything still falls back in Spielmans lap. Signing a stiff at QB to a monster contract when obviously more resources were still needed building an NFL caliber oline.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 1452
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 7:57:16 AM   
Ush


Posts: 2251
Joined: 7/17/2007
Status: offline 		My $.02

1. Cousins is like Ponder 2.0. No pocket presence and scared to throw INT’s so he becomes Checkdown Charlie. How many targets to Ham?? If we knew we were gonna use him that much we should have kept Blasingame.

2. Not saying the oline was good yesterday but Cousins had time to throw in the 1st half but took too long to make his reads. After halftime the sideline reporter said that Zimmer told her Cousins needed to not hold onto the ball so long. Shortly after that he was strip sacked by Mack.

3. There should be a TE on whatever side Mack lines up.....every....single....play

4. I don’t mind Zimmer not saying much after the game when it comes to evaluating individual players. He made it clear that he wasn’t happy with Cousins’ play. Said they talked about ball security the night before. That being said, we needed an explanation on that inexplicable TO call at the end of the half that gifted the Bears 3 points.

5, Also, Zimmer needs to explain why the corners were playing so soft. He wouldn’t elaborate during his press conference. Isn’t he in charge of the defense?!?

6. Irv Smith looks very good. He should be starting over Rudolph

7. I feel like I’ve been saying this for years but where are the offensive adjustments. Stefanski hasn’t been able to put a solid game plan together when playing a good defense. Seems to have no answers. If that is because of Cousins just not executing then okay. But I think it’s a combination of both.

8. These games are almost unwatchable because of all the flags and reviews. The NFL needs to do something soon.

9. I really think Rhodes is done. In the least, he is not a guy that should be following around the other team’s top WR anymore. He got toasted vs. GB and this week was no better.

10. Chase Daniels? We let him sustain long drives against our vaunted defense?

11. We are a different team at home. On the road we are just plain crap. Anyone thinking we are gonna walk into NJ and win easy next week isn’t paying attention. Every thing was lined up perfectly for us vs. the Bears. No Watts, no Smith, no Nichols, no Gabriel and their starting QB goes down on the first drive. Imagine us losing Linval, Griffin, Kendricks, Thielen and Mannnion trotting out there. Would we still dominate the other team?
Post #: 1453
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 8:03:52 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ush

My $.02

1. Cousins is like Ponder 2.0. No pocket presence and scared to throw INT’s so he becomes Checkdown Charlie. How many targets to Ham?? If we knew we were gonna use him that much we should have kept Blasingame.

2. Not saying the oline was good yesterday but Cousins had time to throw in the 1st half but took too long to make his reads. After halftime the sideline reporter said that Zimmer told her Cousins needed to not hold onto the ball so long. Shortly after that he was strip sacked by Mack.

3. There should be a TE on whatever side Mack lines up.....every....single....play

4. I don’t mind Zimmer not saying much after the game when it comes to evaluating individual players. He made it clear that he wasn’t happy with Cousins’ play. Said they talked about ball security the night before. That being said, we needed an explanation on that inexplicable TO call at the end of the half that gifted the Bears 3 points.

5, Also, Zimmer needs to explain why the corners were playing so soft. He wouldn’t elaborate during his press conference. Isn’t he in charge of the defense?!?

6. Irv Smith looks very good. He should be starting over Rudolph

7. I feel like I’ve been saying this for years but where are the offensive adjustments. Stefanski hasn’t been able to put a solid game plan together when playing a good defense. Seems to have no answers. If that is because of Cousins just not executing then okay. But I think it’s a combination of both.

8. These games are almost unwatchable because of all the flags and reviews. The NFL needs to do something soon.

9. I really think Rhodes is done. In the least, he is not a guy that should be following around the other team’s top WR anymore. He got toasted vs. GB and this week was no better.

10. Chase Daniels? We let him sustain long drives against our vaunted defense?

11. We are a different team at home. On the road we are just plain crap. Anyone thinking we are gonna walk into NJ and win easy next week isn’t paying attention. Every thing was lined up perfectly for us vs. the Bears. No Watts, no Smith, no Nichols, no Gabriel and their starting QB goes down on the first drive. Imagine us losing Linval, Griffin, Kendricks, Thielen and Mannnion trotting out there. Would we still dominate the other team?

Excellent post!
Post #: 1454
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 8:18:10 AM   
SteveR

 

Posts: 3574
Joined: 1/24/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Dalvin Cook had 14 carries for 35 yards...


Kirk Cousins was 27 of 36 for 233 yards...


Adam Thielen had just two catches for six yards on the afternoon... Anyone, Anyone? Bueler?...


Zimmers presser after game was predictable same as always garble... no accountability just take a look at things and get back to work...

Q- How did they shut down your running game? Zimm - I dont know... I will have to watch the film!

F'ing seriously he stands on sideline as head Mother F'er in charge and cant give an account of what happened to us in the running game today???

Ansers over and over

I DONT KNOW... I DONT KNOW... hard for me to see... I DONT KNOW....

this is not acceptable...

AND where is the coach that was so damn tough on Case Keenum, even in wins putting him down and always on his ass... Cousins he dances around questions, tenderly avoids ant criticism...

I really can't wait for him to be gone. yeah I know there's always that chance the next guy could be worse. We will just have to keep looking until we get the right guy. Same with QB. We all know we are never winning anything with this guy guiding the ship.


I never worry about the next regime being worse anymore. We haven't seen the Super Bowl in 40 years. "Worse" is already happening! :)

If the next regime can't make it happen, we move on from them, too. Today's NFL moves pretty fast. Culture-building exists up to a point, but then it is fine to cut bait and move on. We are only threatening for a Super Bowl like once every 10 years anyway.
Post #: 1455
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 8:26:58 AM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 2274
Status: offline 		I hate these games where its so obvious we are out coached in all phases and as fans looking in it is glaring that our staff is not putting our players in best situations to win.

No adjustments are being made to game plans that were ill thought out and poorly advised. As professional athletes our players can see it, you could see the frustration and if this continues it will get ugly as some give up on this regime and their philosophy.

To then have the boss sum it all up as to claim his players just didnt execute the game plan or play hard enough and credit the opposing team who just rubbed your nose in it for playing better is poor coaching to say the least...
Post #: 1456
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 8:27:34 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27433
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline 		The first drive of the game....we recover a fumble but Harris gets called for Illegal contact and I believe we recovered another fumble later in the drive but there is a penalty. Just snake bitten.

We had the ball 2 or 3 times in the first half. Diggs fumbled to end one and I believe we punted on the other.

The problem with Cousins isn't that he is a check down Charlie....with the Bears you have to spread them out and get the ball out in 2 seconds....their DLine is that good. We did that finally on our 2nd to last drive of the game. Their weakness is their corners....we took no advantage of them. They don't give you time to throw deep.

Stepanski/Kubiak's offense is to run the ball and throw it deep....well when you are against a good DL you don't have time....go 4 wide early and wear the Dline out with quick passes outs and slants. Why keep running it into the middle? You may have to use the 2 minute drill on your first drive.

The game changer for the Bears is Mack...you don't put him anyone on an island on long passes. Quick hitters maybe.

On the road you have to get some momentum, turn the tide. We were starting to get momentum and then Diggs fumbled....other than that we didn't get any momentum until the drive we scored late 4th quarter.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 9/30/2019 8:39:33 AM >

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Post #: 1457
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 8:32:23 AM   
geoffrey greitzer

 

Posts: 1450
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline 		Audible? I don't remember many
Is it allowed under Zimmer?
Post #: 1458
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 8:34:47 AM   
ronhextall


Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		Not sure you can announce to the world you are going to run the football and have success in today’s NFL.
Post #: 1459
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 8:37:44 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

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From: Alamogordo, NM
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quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Audible? I don't remember many
Is it allowed under Zimmer?

I was thinking that yesterday while watching. Jeff George would have been audibling on over half of those ridiculously stupid plays.
Post #: 1460
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 8:38:43 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19617
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From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Not sure you can announce to the world you are going to run the football and have success in today’s NFL.

Against top 10 defenses you might as well not take the field with that stupidity.
Post #: 1461
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 8:40:00 AM   
geoffrey greitzer

 

Posts: 1450
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline 		Last QB I remember doing it was Favre
I think Chilly hated it...
Post #: 1462
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 8:40:37 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27433
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Not sure you can announce to the world you are going to run the football and have success in today’s NFL.

Against top 10 defenses you might as well not take the field with that stupidity.


Actually you announce it to the world and spread them out and do the quick hitting passes.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 1463
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 8:41:56 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Not sure you can announce to the world you are going to run the football and have success in today’s NFL.

Against top 10 defenses you might as well not take the field with that stupidity.


Actually you announce it to the world and spread them out and do the quick hitting passes.

Bingo! I knew we were going to have to pass to set up the run and I'm not coaching material. The Bears were not going to allow Cook to go off.
Post #: 1464
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 8:48:46 AM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 2274
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Not sure you can announce to the world you are going to run the football and have success in today’s NFL.

Reminds me of the Randy Ratio BS, but worse actually...

To have a single mantra and identity so rigid you forego a well rounded game plan which can adapt in real time to exploit what an opposing team is willing to give you is a recipe for disaster in todays NFL...

Then spelling it all out, having rigid expectations on how many runs you need to force, telling the world you are a 70s style offense is just dumb. It went from quirky to being laughed at in this past game by announcers...


When was the last time you felt at all we were playing games with opposing D, using certain plays to set up later counter strikes for big pay offs, Its like our staff goes into a high stakes poker game wearing Mickey Mouse shirt and wondering where the jokers are in the deck...
Post #: 1465
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 8:49:19 AM   
CPAMAN

 

Posts: 36324
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The first drive of the game....we recover a fumble but Harris gets called for Illegal contact and I believe we recovered another fumble later in the drive but there is a penalty. Just snake bitten.

We had the ball 2 or 3 times in the first half. Diggs fumbled to end one and I believe we punted on the other.

The problem with Cousins isn't that he is a check down Charlie....with the Bears you have to spread them out and get the ball out in 2 seconds....their DLine is that good. We did that finally on our 2nd to last drive of the game. Their weakness is their corners....we took no advantage of them. They don't give you time to throw deep.

Stepanski/Kubiak's offense is to run the ball and throw it deep....well when you are against a good DL you don't have time....go 4 wide early and wear the Dline out with quick passes outs and slants. Why keep running it into the middle? You may have to use the 2 minute drill on your first drive.

The game changer for the Bears is Mack...you don't put him anyone on an island on long passes. Quick hitters maybe.

On the road you have to get some momentum, turn the tide. We were starting to get momentum and then Diggs fumbled....other than that we didn't get any momentum until the drive we scored late 4th quarter.

The 4th quarter drive and stats are entirely meaningless. The Vikings got their asses handed to them at the LOS. The Citadel vs. Alabama is damn correct.

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.
Post #: 1466
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 8:52:15 AM   
Lars


Posts: 11418
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ush

My $.02

1. Cousins is like Ponder 2.0. No pocket presence and scared to throw INT’s so he becomes Checkdown Charlie. How many targets to Ham?? If we knew we were gonna use him that much we should have kept Blasingame.

2. Not saying the oline was good yesterday but Cousins had time to throw in the 1st half but took too long to make his reads. After halftime the sideline reporter said that Zimmer told her Cousins needed to not hold onto the ball so long. Shortly after that he was strip sacked by Mack.

3. There should be a TE on whatever side Mack lines up.....every....single....play

4. I don’t mind Zimmer not saying much after the game when it comes to evaluating individual players. He made it clear that he wasn’t happy with Cousins’ play. Said they talked about ball security the night before. That being said, we needed an explanation on that inexplicable TO call at the end of the half that gifted the Bears 3 points.

5, Also, Zimmer needs to explain why the corners were playing so soft. He wouldn’t elaborate during his press conference. Isn’t he in charge of the defense?!?

6. Irv Smith looks very good. He should be starting over Rudolph

7. I feel like I’ve been saying this for years but where are the offensive adjustments. Stefanski hasn’t been able to put a solid game plan together when playing a good defense. Seems to have no answers. If that is because of Cousins just not executing then okay. But I think it’s a combination of both.

8. These games are almost unwatchable because of all the flags and reviews. The NFL needs to do something soon.

9. I really think Rhodes is done. In the least, he is not a guy that should be following around the other team’s top WR anymore. He got toasted vs. GB and this week was no better.

10. Chase Daniels? We let him sustain long drives against our vaunted defense?

11. We are a different team at home. On the road we are just plain crap. Anyone thinking we are gonna walk into NJ and win easy next week isn’t paying attention. Every thing was lined up perfectly for us vs. the Bears. No Watts, no Smith, no Nichols, no Gabriel and their starting QB goes down on the first drive. Imagine us losing Linval, Griffin, Kendricks, Thielen and Mannnion trotting out there. Would we still dominate the other team?


Great summary! Not much I could add for my own $0.02.

I don't think XR is done.

We needed a few of those double-A-gap blitzes. Our plan was to force CHI to dink and dunk....and they were happy to do just that. Control the clock, wear down the defense, negate our pass rush....

Our game plan on offense should have been much more based on spreading them out and hitting them with slants and drags.

Bradbury Egg struggled again. Missed a couple of huge blocks on screens that would have gone a long ways. Bull rushed on others.

Speaking of bull-rushed, Cook got trucked on one play bad.

_____________________________

<this space for rent>
Post #: 1467
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 8:58:08 AM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 2274
Status: offline 		I posted earlier and still say...

I seriously thought the whole "We are an an hard nosed old school team predicated on running a 70s style offense" was just a ruse, a joke to set up opposing teams to fall into trap of concentrating on defending one dimension of our game plan, then exploiting their oversight with what that opens in the passing game...

Well joke is on us... or regime was serious... we are going back to the 70s!
Post #: 1468
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 9:03:57 AM   
Lars


Posts: 11418
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
Status: offline 		Nothing wrong with playing like the 70s....you just need an elite OL to do that....

_____________________________

<this space for rent>
Post #: 1469
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 9:07:03 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

Nothing wrong with playing like the 70s....you just need an elite OL to do that....

I don't think that would even work yesterday. These guys are too these days especially top defenses like the Bears. They can take away the one dimension and then what? You have to be balanced in the "we can beat you both ways" sense with football these days. We have shown through 4 games that the forward pass is a foreign concept.
Post #: 1470
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 9:07:38 AM   
The Happy Norseman

 

Posts: 758
Joined: 12/2/2016
Status: offline 		I watched some of the Giants game yesterday. It's hard to overestimate how important it is for a team, both on offense and defense, to have hope in their QB. Unlike in the last couple of years with Manning at QB, the intensity of the entire team was up the game. Probably because they knew that if they played well, their QB could lead them to victory. The Vikings are in that exact position right now. Kirk is our Eli. A bad veteran QB that inspires no faith in his team, so they don't play up to their potential. The Vikings are going to lose some players next year, but will remain largely intact. Hopefully, there will be a new regime running the show and on draft day they do whatever it takes to get a top QB in the draft. As a fan it would be nice to at least have some hope that the Vikings can get to the Superbowl. Under Cousins, Spielman and Zimmer, there is no hope, just another 8-8 season in store.

_____________________________

If the Cubs can win the World Series...
Post #: 1471
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 9:08:31 AM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 2274
Status: offline 		Its not just on the OL... we certainly could use a better OL to cover stink elsewhere, but in todays NFL the rules and way the game is played is just not productive to a 70s style game plan. Its a high speed chess match and we are out paced playing checkers...
Post #: 1472
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 9:09:58 AM   
ronhextall


Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

Nothing wrong with playing like the 70s....you just need an elite OL to do that....


Not in today’s NFL. Too many flags for defensive holding PI and roughing QB to just ignore it. Those yards are free money.
Post #: 1473
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 9:13:02 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

I watched some of the Giants game yesterday. It's hard to overestimate how important it is for a team, both on offense and defense, to have hope in their QB. Unlike in the last couple of years with Manning at QB, the intensity of the entire team was up the game. Probably because they knew that if they played well, their QB could lead them to victory. The Vikings are in that exact position right now. Kirk is our Eli. A bad veteran QB that inspires no faith in his team, so they don't play up to their potential. The Vikings are going to lose some players next year, but will remain largely intact. Hopefully, there will be a new regime running the show and on draft day they do whatever it takes to get a top QB in the draft. As a fan it would be nice to at least have some hope that the Vikings can get to the Superbowl. Under Cousins, Spielman and Zimmer, there is no hope, just another 8-8 season in store.

Exactly! How many idiots on TV were saying it would be no different with Jones in there? I swear some of the dumbest people get paid a lot to say the dumbest things. Now the team is getting some hope meanwhile our hope is dwindling. Anyone could see the Giants players had given up while manning was in there. Heck now they're winning with Barkley out. Says a lot about the importance of the qb.

< Message edited by Richard Neussendorfer -- 9/30/2019 9:14:12 AM >
Post #: 1474
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/30/2019 9:15:41 AM   
geoffrey greitzer

 

Posts: 1450
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline 		Agreed Happy...
With a loss to the Giants...wheels come off.
Wonder how Wilf's would react
Post #: 1475
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