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RE: Free Agency 2020

 
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RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/1/2020 6:25:11 PM   
Dana Turner


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

As much as I'd love to see Harris extended I don't think it will happen. I think the talk of extending him is to flush out any team that's sitting back and waiting to see what happens. I imagine we'll end up taking a 4th or 5th rounder for him which is still better than nothing. Zimmer sabotaged the trade effort before the whole thing even began by saying safety wasn't a priority or 'important' or whatever his comment was.

If Harris goes I like the amount of cap space it opens up but that's it. The four best players on our team were Hunter, Kendricks, Diggs, and Harris. It seems like poor management to lose two of your best players. I understand Diggs might not have been salvageable but really we'll never know.

Its as clear cut as can be, he had to go ... unless you think we should have altered the team to appease a diva-ish WR.

No, Zimmer didnt sabotage the Harris trade prospects ... safeties, guards and fullbacks simply are valued under CBs, OTs and RBs for obvious reasons. That and the fact we already have a top caliber, highly paid safety on the roster has more to do with our lack of trade leverage than Zimmer opening his mouth.


Diggs had to go given the current environment that's for sure. Is the environment of 'run and stop the run' a great idea for today's game? I know, I know it is what it is. It just seems to me that a team should look to keep it's best players and build around that rather than establish an identity and then try to fit the pieces that way. We fell back-asswards into two elite talents in Diggs and Harris and we barely got to use them. Why can't there be two elite safeties? Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor want to know. Can you imagine if Seattle had let half the legion of boom move on because they didn't want too much invested in one area?

'Run and stop the run' is over-blown in here as a criticism. All NFL coaches not named Andy Reid would prefer to be able to 'run and stop the run', its a tremendous advantage. My apologies to Diggs if he wanted a return to the 2018 DeFilippo one dimensional passing attack – its fun for WRs but not for fans that have to watch their team get abused by more balanced, better coached teams.

Every team is trying to keep its best players and trying to adapt what they do to those player's strengths. Every team. Including the 1-15 and 14-2 teams.

I never said there can't be 2 elite safeties – since we had that last year (and still might in 2020), the point is moot. But the variables are different from year to year, and paying a Harris premier money (even for the safety position) will make it difficult to address other needs and work ourselves out of cap hell.

Our situation, roster, cap structure, etc. has nothing to do with that Seattle team from several years ago. That's neither here nor there.


This!
Post #: 726
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/1/2020 6:39:47 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

As much as I'd love to see Harris extended I don't think it will happen. I think the talk of extending him is to flush out any team that's sitting back and waiting to see what happens. I imagine we'll end up taking a 4th or 5th rounder for him which is still better than nothing. Zimmer sabotaged the trade effort before the whole thing even began by saying safety wasn't a priority or 'important' or whatever his comment was.

If Harris goes I like the amount of cap space it opens up but that's it. The four best players on our team were Hunter, Kendricks, Diggs, and Harris. It seems like poor management to lose two of your best players. I understand Diggs might not have been salvageable but really we'll never know.

I just release him before accepting a 4 or 5. Somebody will sign him and we will get a 3rd compensatory pick I still think. That of course would have been more likely if we had just released him in the first place.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 4/1/2020 6:44:05 PM >


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Post #: 727
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/1/2020 6:46:39 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

Harris is a good example of a guy that should have been extended last year, before the season. Could have locked him up for around six million a year and been done with it. Lets remember, although he did have a couple of nice picks, a couple of them were flat out gifts too. He's a good player, I've always thought it was a very good pickup in UDFA, but he's simply not worth the contract that is being hyped up by the media and his agent. Because of the good year, his only really good year, he's set to make twice what he is really worth and many teams know this and won't pay it. I'd be disappointed in the Vikings if they ink him for over 9 million a year average. Love the kid, just don't love him enough to by him a mansion.

I have the same feeling. Career year unlikely to be repeated.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 728
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/1/2020 7:23:58 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

As much as I'd love to see Harris extended I don't think it will happen. I think the talk of extending him is to flush out any team that's sitting back and waiting to see what happens. I imagine we'll end up taking a 4th or 5th rounder for him which is still better than nothing. Zimmer sabotaged the trade effort before the whole thing even began by saying safety wasn't a priority or 'important' or whatever his comment was.

If Harris goes I like the amount of cap space it opens up but that's it. The four best players on our team were Hunter, Kendricks, Diggs, and Harris. It seems like poor management to lose two of your best players. I understand Diggs might not have been salvageable but really we'll never know.

I just release him before accepting a 4 or 5. Somebody will sign him and we will get a 3rd compensatory pick I still think. That of course would have been more likely if we had just released him in the first place.

If we are going to get rid of him, use him on a trade up to get a Blue Chipper.

#22, Harris and whatever to get Wirfs, Jeudy, Kinlaw, CJ Henderson
Post #: 729
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/1/2020 7:45:40 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

As much as I'd love to see Harris extended I don't think it will happen. I think the talk of extending him is to flush out any team that's sitting back and waiting to see what happens. I imagine we'll end up taking a 4th or 5th rounder for him which is still better than nothing. Zimmer sabotaged the trade effort before the whole thing even began by saying safety wasn't a priority or 'important' or whatever his comment was.

If Harris goes I like the amount of cap space it opens up but that's it. The four best players on our team were Hunter, Kendricks, Diggs, and Harris. It seems like poor management to lose two of your best players. I understand Diggs might not have been salvageable but really we'll never know.

I just release him before accepting a 4 or 5. Somebody will sign him and we will get a 3rd compensatory pick I still think. That of course would have been more likely if we had just released him in the first place.

If we are going to get rid of him, use him on a trade up to get a Blue Chipper.

#22, Harris and whatever to get Wirfs, Jeudy, Kinlaw, CJ Henderson


I agree
Post #: 730
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/1/2020 10:14:43 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

As much as I'd love to see Harris extended I don't think it will happen. I think the talk of extending him is to flush out any team that's sitting back and waiting to see what happens. I imagine we'll end up taking a 4th or 5th rounder for him which is still better than nothing. Zimmer sabotaged the trade effort before the whole thing even began by saying safety wasn't a priority or 'important' or whatever his comment was.

If Harris goes I like the amount of cap space it opens up but that's it. The four best players on our team were Hunter, Kendricks, Diggs, and Harris. It seems like poor management to lose two of your best players. I understand Diggs might not have been salvageable but really we'll never know.

I just release him before accepting a 4 or 5. Somebody will sign him and we will get a 3rd compensatory pick I still think. That of course would have been more likely if we had just released him in the first place.

If we are going to get rid of him, use him on a trade up to get a Blue Chipper.

#22, Harris and whatever to get Wirfs, Jeudy, Kinlaw, CJ Henderson


I agree



Yeah that's a super good idea. Otherwise I'd still take a 4th. A 3rd round comp pick will be at the end of the round anyway.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 731
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/2/2020 12:37:39 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

As much as I'd love to see Harris extended I don't think it will happen. I think the talk of extending him is to flush out any team that's sitting back and waiting to see what happens. I imagine we'll end up taking a 4th or 5th rounder for him which is still better than nothing. Zimmer sabotaged the trade effort before the whole thing even began by saying safety wasn't a priority or 'important' or whatever his comment was.

If Harris goes I like the amount of cap space it opens up but that's it. The four best players on our team were Hunter, Kendricks, Diggs, and Harris. It seems like poor management to lose two of your best players. I understand Diggs might not have been salvageable but really we'll never know.

I just release him before accepting a 4 or 5. Somebody will sign him and we will get a 3rd compensatory pick I still think. That of course would have been more likely if we had just released him in the first place.

If we are going to get rid of him, use him on a trade up to get a Blue Chipper.

#22, Harris and whatever to get Wirfs, Jeudy, Kinlaw, CJ Henderson


I agree



Yeah that's a super good idea. Otherwise I'd still take a 4th. A 3rd round comp pick will be at the end of the round anyway.

Good Point DF. This year instead of next year and hopefully an early 4th round pick. As much as I'd like to do better I could live with a 4th it's better than nothing.

_____________________________

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Post #: 732
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/2/2020 12:55:09 PM   
Dana Turner


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Bottom line, if you pay Harris $13 million a year, you will have over $23 million tied up in the safety positions. Although it is an important position, as many have pointed out, it's down there on the list and that much money invested in these two positions is very poor cap management. I just don't see it happening. Something will happen with Harris in the next few weeks, well, him or Smith!
Post #: 733
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/2/2020 2:42:18 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

Harris is a good example of a guy that should have been extended last year, before the season. Could have locked him up for around six million a year and been done with it. Lets remember, although he did have a couple of nice picks, a couple of them were flat out gifts too. He's a good player, I've always thought it was a very good pickup in UDFA, but he's simply not worth the contract that is being hyped up by the media and his agent. Because of the good year, his only really good year, he's set to make twice what he is really worth and many teams know this and won't pay it. I'd be disappointed in the Vikings if they ink him for over 9 million a year average. Love the kid, just don't love him enough to by him a mansion.



Last year, Harris' agent said in no uncertain terms that Harris will see free agency.
Post #: 734
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/2/2020 2:48:32 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

Bottom line, if you pay Harris $13 million a year, you will have over $23 million tied up in the safety positions. Although it is an important position, as many have pointed out, it's down there on the list and that much money invested in these two positions is very poor cap management. I just don't see it happening. Something will happen with Harris in the next few weeks, well, him or Smith!

I don't agree with the assessment that Harris is a $14 million a year player simply based on one very good season. If he's reasonable and we can get him for $11 million a year I would be OK with that. If he won't sign an extension for that we have his rights for next year at just over 11 Million.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 735
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/2/2020 3:03:38 PM   
TJSweens


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Actually Harris had 2 consecutive very good seasons.

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Post #: 736
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/2/2020 3:15:47 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Actually Harris had 2 consecutive very good seasons.

Depends on how you look at it. I see it as one good season then a very good season.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 737
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/2/2020 3:38:30 PM   
David F.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

Bottom line, if you pay Harris $13 million a year, you will have over $23 million tied up in the safety positions. Although it is an important position, as many have pointed out, it's down there on the list and that much money invested in these two positions is very poor cap management. I just don't see it happening. Something will happen with Harris in the next few weeks, well, him or Smith!


If you look at it positionally then yes I see it. I’m looking at it talent wise. It does us no good to move on from Harris because he’s a safety yet still pay Barr because then the cap is ‘distributed correctly’. What if we could have four elite offensive linemen? Would we pass so that we could still have Rudolph or rhodes? See what I’m saying? If it were me I’d try to hang on to the talent and rework my philosophy around that. Easier said than done I know.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 738
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/2/2020 8:52:00 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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#Vikings kicked the tires on him, didn't make an offer. I do think the Vikings will add a free agent DB eventually.
Quote Tweet

Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
· 9h
The #Lions agreed to terms with former #Jets CB Darryl Roberts on a one-year, source said.

(Darren Wolfson on Twitter)

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 739
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/2/2020 11:02:28 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

#Vikings kicked the tires on him, didn't make an offer. I do think the Vikings will add a free agent DB eventually.
Quote Tweet

Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
· 9h
The #Lions agreed to terms with former #Jets CB Darryl Roberts on a one-year, source said.

(Darren Wolfson on Twitter)

Going after Kirkpatrick??
Post #: 740
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/3/2020 12:18:49 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/veteran-cornerbacks-vikings-could-target-free-agency

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 741
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/3/2020 1:04:57 PM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Actually Harris had 2 consecutive very good seasons.

Depends on how you look at it. I see it as one good season then a very good season.

The trend is upward.

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Post #: 742
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/3/2020 1:22:20 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Actually Harris had 2 consecutive very good seasons.

Depends on how you look at it. I see it as one good season then a very good season.

Harris played very well in both 2018 and 2019.

In some ways (solo tackles), he played better with fewer opportunities in 2018 (9GS in 2018, 14GS in 2019).
Post #: 743
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/3/2020 2:08:14 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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I don't get why not Nickell Robey-Coleman? 1.3ml fit our budget

We need at least 3 more cb's

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Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 744
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/3/2020 2:26:12 PM   
Dana Turner


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Actually Harris had 2 consecutive very good seasons.

Depends on how you look at it. I see it as one good season then a very good season.

Harris played very well in both 2018 and 2019.

In some ways (solo tackles), he played better with fewer opportunities in 2018 (9GS in 2018, 14GS in 2019).



I agree with KG here, 2018 was a good season, nothing to be ashamed of and his 2019 campaign was his best yet, but lets remember, he's a safety playing opposite of an all pro. Sandejo looked good too, although not the level of Harris, but with Sandejo we had a top tier defense, better than the last two years. Before anyone starts going crazy with "it wasn't Sandejo" I get that, but it was the same players and they were pretty damn good. My point is that safeties get a lot of tackles, it's the nature of the position. I really like Harris a lot, I just don't want to invest $23 million in the two safety spots when you can get solid production out of the spots for around $14 or $15. That's just me, but I can understand how many feel about Harris, we were blessed to get him, I loved it when we did, I just wish we could have signed him for $6 million a year a season ago! I would never pay him $13 million, period!
Post #: 745
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/3/2020 2:37:45 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Actually Harris had 2 consecutive very good seasons.

Depends on how you look at it. I see it as one good season then a very good season.

Harris played very well in both 2018 and 2019.

In some ways (solo tackles), he played better with fewer opportunities in 2018 (9GS in 2018, 14GS in 2019).



I agree with KG here, 2018 was a good season, nothing to be ashamed of and his 2019 campaign was his best yet, but lets remember, he's a safety playing opposite of an all pro. Sandejo looked good too, although not the level of Harris, but with Sandejo we had a top tier defense, better than the last two years. Before anyone starts going crazy with "it wasn't Sandejo" I get that, but it was the same players and they were pretty damn good. My point is that safeties get a lot of tackles, it's the nature of the position. I really like Harris a lot, I just don't want to invest $23 million in the two safety spots when you can get solid production out of the spots for around $14 or $15. That's just me, but I can understand how many feel about Harris, we were blessed to get him, I loved it when we did, I just wish we could have signed him for $6 million a year a season ago! I would never pay him $13 million, period!

Harris was very good both years, playing next to a version of Smith that has lost half a step. He is also the only legitimate ball hawk in our secondary.

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Post #: 746
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/3/2020 2:59:24 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17928
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Actually Harris had 2 consecutive very good seasons.

Depends on how you look at it. I see it as one good season then a very good season.

Harris played very well in both 2018 and 2019.

In some ways (solo tackles), he played better with fewer opportunities in 2018 (9GS in 2018, 14GS in 2019).



I agree with KG here, 2018 was a good season, nothing to be ashamed of and his 2019 campaign was his best yet, but lets remember, he's a safety playing opposite of an all pro. Sandejo looked good too, although not the level of Harris, but with Sandejo we had a top tier defense, better than the last two years. Before anyone starts going crazy with "it wasn't Sandejo" I get that, but it was the same players and they were pretty damn good. My point is that safeties get a lot of tackles, it's the nature of the position. I really like Harris a lot, I just don't want to invest $23 million in the two safety spots when you can get solid production out of the spots for around $14 or $15. That's just me, but I can understand how many feel about Harris, we were blessed to get him, I loved it when we did, I just wish we could have signed him for $6 million a year a season ago! I would never pay him $13 million, period!

There were a few of us pointing out that Harris should have been extended after the 2018 season. But the problem was many of our core players were getting extended (some shouldn't have) and we had little to no money to get out in front of some of our young players when they could be extended early at huge savings.

What bothers me a lot is that we use to do this. We also never back loaded contracts like we have been the last 2 years. But this is what an owner gets when he has a GM and HC on lame duck contracts.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 747
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/3/2020 4:06:56 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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For those of you who are anxious about wanting one more significant free agent pickup.

https://youtu.be/A1maOCq5AZM

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 748
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/4/2020 12:24:31 AM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Actually Harris had 2 consecutive very good seasons.

Depends on how you look at it. I see it as one good season then a very good season.

Harris played very well in both 2018 and 2019.

In some ways (solo tackles), he played better with fewer opportunities in 2018 (9GS in 2018, 14GS in 2019).



I agree with KG here, 2018 was a good season, nothing to be ashamed of and his 2019 campaign was his best yet, but lets remember, he's a safety playing opposite of an all pro. Sandejo looked good too, although not the level of Harris, but with Sandejo we had a top tier defense, better than the last two years. Before anyone starts going crazy with "it wasn't Sandejo" I get that, but it was the same players and they were pretty damn good. My point is that safeties get a lot of tackles, it's the nature of the position. I really like Harris a lot, I just don't want to invest $23 million in the two safety spots when you can get solid production out of the spots for around $14 or $15. That's just me, but I can understand how many feel about Harris, we were blessed to get him, I loved it when we did, I just wish we could have signed him for $6 million a year a season ago! I would never pay him $13 million, period!

There were a few of us pointing out that Harris should have been extended after the 2018 season. But the problem was many of our core players were getting extended (some shouldn't have) and we had little to no money to get out in front of some of our young players when they could be extended early at huge savings.

What bothers me a lot is that we use to do this. We also never back loaded contracts like we have been the last 2 years. But this is what an owner gets when he has a GM and HC on lame duck contracts.


So you're saying that Wilf should extend Spiels and Zimmer.
Post #: 749
RE: Free Agency 2020 - 4/4/2020 7:19:15 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Actually Harris had 2 consecutive very good seasons.

Depends on how you look at it. I see it as one good season then a very good season.

Harris played very well in both 2018 and 2019.

In some ways (solo tackles), he played better with fewer opportunities in 2018 (9GS in 2018, 14GS in 2019).



I agree with KG here, 2018 was a good season, nothing to be ashamed of and his 2019 campaign was his best yet, but lets remember, he's a safety playing opposite of an all pro. Sandejo looked good too, although not the level of Harris, but with Sandejo we had a top tier defense, better than the last two years. Before anyone starts going crazy with "it wasn't Sandejo" I get that, but it was the same players and they were pretty damn good. My point is that safeties get a lot of tackles, it's the nature of the position. I really like Harris a lot, I just don't want to invest $23 million in the two safety spots when you can get solid production out of the spots for around $14 or $15. That's just me, but I can understand how many feel about Harris, we were blessed to get him, I loved it when we did, I just wish we could have signed him for $6 million a year a season ago! I would never pay him $13 million, period!

There were a few of us pointing out that Harris should have been extended after the 2018 season. But the problem was many of our core players were getting extended (some shouldn't have) and we had little to no money to get out in front of some of our young players when they could be extended early at huge savings.

What bothers me a lot is that we use to do this. We also never back loaded contracts like we have been the last 2 years. But this is what an owner gets when he has a GM and HC on lame duck contracts.


So you're saying that Wilf should extend Spiels and Zimmer.

One or the other.

But anyone can see they are kicking a lot of money down the road in an effort to look good short term.

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Oline...early and often this draft
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