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RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/20/2021 10:27:32 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
reiff: $7.5m
harris: $5m

i cannot believe that spielman didn't sign off on those numbers...he could have easily lowered them with a signing bonus and three-year deals....

That's flat out stupid. Harris 5ml cheaper than Patrick Peterson.

Losing your best olineman on a 27th ranked oline is also foolish.

I'm going to hold off criticizing OLine moves until we are done. Although our track record is poor.

Maybe come May we are looking at a Brown Jr./Vera Tucker/Bradbury/ Cleveland/O'Neill Oline with subs Hill, Udoh, Lamp, Hinton.

it very well could be brown and an early draft pick....

Guessing if we trade for Brown #14 will be for DE or CB.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 651

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/20/2021 10:30:55 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12168
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
reiff: $7.5m
harris: $5m

i cannot believe that spielman didn't sign off on those numbers...he could have easily lowered them with a signing bonus and three-year deals....

That's flat out stupid. Harris 5ml cheaper than Patrick Peterson.

Losing your best olineman on a 27th ranked oline is also foolish.

I'm going to hold off criticizing OLine moves until we are done. Although our track record is poor.

Maybe come May we are looking at a Brown Jr./Vera Tucker/Bradbury/ Cleveland/O'Neill Oline with subs Hill, Udoh, Lamp, Hinton.

it very well could be brown and an early draft pick....

Guessing if we trade for Brown #14 will be for DE or CB.

Probably right.

Post #: 652

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/20/2021 10:41:56 AM

Murph

Posts: 2027
Joined: 4/20/2008
From: PNW
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
reiff: $7.5m
harris: $5m

i cannot believe that spielman didn't sign off on those numbers...he could have easily lowered them with a signing bonus and three-year deals....

That's flat out stupid. Harris 5ml cheaper than Patrick Peterson.

Losing your best olineman on a 27th ranked oline is also foolish.

I'm going to hold off criticizing OLine moves until we are done. Although our track record is poor.

Maybe come May we are looking at a Brown Jr./Vera Tucker/Bradbury/ Cleveland/O'Neill Oline with subs Hill, Udoh, Lamp, Hinton.

it very well could be brown and an early draft pick....

Guessing if we trade for Brown #14 will be for DE or CB.

Hopefully BPA and need line up; otherwise BPA with a pick this high.

_____________________________

Hey Wilf's, let's build a "Perennial Super Bowl contender" not a "perennial playoff contender".

Post #: 653

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/20/2021 10:55:05 AM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
reiff: $7.5m
harris: $5m

i cannot believe that spielman didn't sign off on those numbers...he could have easily lowered them with a signing bonus and three-year deals....

That's flat out stupid. Harris 5ml cheaper than Patrick Peterson.

Losing your best olineman on a 27th ranked oline is also foolish.

Just look how it played out with Harris.

We made a push to keep him. He refused our offer. We went and signed Peterson(8M, not 10M as 1st reported).

Harris fires his agent. Rosenhaus gets him a low one year deal in Philly.

It looks to me like Harris' first agent misjudged the market for him. I'm guessing we offered 5 per or better and they thought he(Harris) was a 10M a year guy.

i hadn't heard about harris and the problem with his agent...that's really too bad - he's come a long way with his career, and financially, these next two years are critical for him....

i didn't know that either. heard harris was disgruntled with the Vikings but perhaps that isn't the case

I believe Harris has a valid gripe in that he could have signed a longer deal last year except the Vikings franchised him. Of course if he had had a better 2020 season he could have cashed in more. Still, part of the reason his stats came back last year was that the way he was used was changed to accommodate all of the rookie cornerbacks.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 654

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/20/2021 11:38:39 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
reiff: $7.5m
harris: $5m

i cannot believe that spielman didn't sign off on those numbers...he could have easily lowered them with a signing bonus and three-year deals....

That's flat out stupid. Harris 5ml cheaper than Patrick Peterson.

Losing your best olineman on a 27th ranked oline is also foolish.

Just look how it played out with Harris.

We made a push to keep him. He refused our offer. We went and signed Peterson(8M, not 10M as 1st reported).

Harris fires his agent. Rosenhaus gets him a low one year deal in Philly.

It looks to me like Harris' first agent misjudged the market for him. I'm guessing we offered 5 per or better and they thought he(Harris) was a 10M a year guy.

Good post, and one that should be preserved in the event Peterson doesn't pan out and we hear "we could have kept Harris blah, blah."

It's a dynamic environment and agents are not running everything by Minnesota as if the team was the nerve center of free agency.

Post #: 655

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/20/2021 11:47:40 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

LT. Unless Brown is a G we won't be signing him because Cleveland will be the LT.

G. The two guard positions will be covered with a mid-tier FA and a 2nd-3rd rounder via a move up in the draft.

DE. Paye will be drafted at #14 and we will have the makings of a hell of a DL.

S and 3 WR. Resourced via the rest of the cap they can spend as well as the mid-round picks. Those positions will be manned only in a technical sense as they will be void of upper tier talent.

CB. Peterson, Dantzler, Gladney, and Hughes will be the top four CBs.

Post #: 656

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/20/2021 12:06:38 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
reiff: $7.5m
harris: $5m

i cannot believe that spielman didn't sign off on those numbers...he could have easily lowered them with a signing bonus and three-year deals....

That's flat out stupid. Harris 5ml cheaper than Patrick Peterson.

Losing your best olineman on a 27th ranked oline is also foolish.

Just look how it played out with Harris.

We made a push to keep him. He refused our offer. We went and signed Peterson(8M, not 10M as 1st reported).

Harris fires his agent. Rosenhaus gets him a low one year deal in Philly.

It looks to me like Harris' first agent misjudged the market for him. I'm guessing we offered 5 per or better and they thought he(Harris) was a 10M a year guy.

i hadn't heard about harris and the problem with his agent...that's really too bad - he's come a long way with his career, and financially, these next two years are critical for him....

i didn't know that either. heard harris was disgruntled with the Vikings but perhaps that isn't the case

I believe Harris has a valid gripe in that he could have signed a longer deal last year except the Vikings franchised him. Of course if he had had a better 2020 season he could have cashed in more. Still, part of the reason his stats came back last year was that the way he was used was changed to accommodate all of the rookie cornerbacks.

Not sure he had a "valid" gripe. It's business according to the CBA. And the Vikes would have long termed him at a lower price than what he was asking, which was probably north of $10M/yr

Post #: 657

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/20/2021 12:13:18 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

Two years ago Harris said he would be testing free agency. I brought this up last year but have been unable to find where he said that.

Post #: 658

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/20/2021 12:56:34 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12168
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
reiff: $7.5m
harris: $5m

i cannot believe that spielman didn't sign off on those numbers...he could have easily lowered them with a signing bonus and three-year deals....

That's flat out stupid. Harris 5ml cheaper than Patrick Peterson.

Losing your best olineman on a 27th ranked oline is also foolish.

Just look how it played out with Harris.

We made a push to keep him. He refused our offer. We went and signed Peterson(8M, not 10M as 1st reported).

Harris fires his agent. Rosenhaus gets him a low one year deal in Philly.

It looks to me like Harris' first agent misjudged the market for him. I'm guessing we offered 5 per or better and they thought he(Harris) was a 10M a year guy.

Good post, and one that should be preserved in the event Peterson doesn't pan out and we hear "we could have kept Harris blah, blah."

It's a dynamic environment and agents are not running everything by Minnesota as if the team was the nerve center of free agency.

Yep.

If a player/agent say No to a team, they have to move on or they end up with nothing.

Post #: 659

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/20/2021 1:01:00 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12168
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

LT. Unless Brown is a G we won't be signing him because Cleveland will be the LT.

G. The two guard positions will be covered with a mid-tier FA and a 2nd-3rd rounder via a move up in the draft.

DE. Paye will be drafted at #14 and we will have the makings of a hell of a DL.

S and 3 WR. Resourced via the rest of the cap they can spend as well as the mid-round picks. Those positions will be manned only in a technical sense as they will be void of upper tier talent.

CB. Peterson, Dantzler, Gladney, and Hughes will be the top four CBs.

You are sold on Paye. I'm probably not all the way there but he actually has a John Randle look to him.

Philips and Rousseau probably have better measurables but not the full body of work.

Post #: 660

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/20/2021 2:12:56 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

man, sure hope we are still in FA mode and not See-How-the-Draft-Goes mode, adding little bits and pieces afterward.

I can live with a DE, G and S in the draft ... but we are one vet IOL away from having a surprisingly solid offseason (as early as it is).

Post #: 661

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/20/2021 2:47:01 PM

geoffrey greitzer

Posts: 1450
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

Patrick Peterson...Charles Woodson.

Woodson better, but not by much.

Woodson had a great run with packers after 8 seasons with oakland.

Get Paye. get a guard in fa and in draft and this team competes for sb this year!

Post #: 662

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/20/2021 4:18:11 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Patrick Peterson...Charles Woodson.

Woodson better, but not by much.

Woodson had a great run with packers after 8 seasons with oakland.

Get Paye. get a guard in fa and in draft and this team competes for sb this year!

I do believe the draft is deeper at guard than at edge rusher. I find myself changing my mind to your way of thinking. The only thing is that the options for offensive line are so so good at #14. Those players could be Pro Bowlers for years to come. I see Paye drifting down in the mock drafts. I'm not sure why. Because the edge rushers are neck and neck for me and slated to go later in the first round, it feels like the trade back option. And that's a great option because we can hopefully re-coop that second round pick we lost, or combine some of the picks later in our draft to move up into a better part of the second round even and knab a guard there.

Edt: I guess it really matters how you evaluate the players. Here Daniel Jeremiah, whom I respect, has the Miami edge rusher ranked really high- higher than Darrisaw whom I personally like a lot, but what do I know. I am a fan of taking the best player available, but how do the Vikings evaluate the players on their board? That is the question. I know some evaluators like Phillips better than Rousseau. The guy from Purple FTW (he never says his name) that I watch everyday on Youtube seems to really like Paye. It feels like to me the edge rushers are more hit or miss, but the offensive linemen rated high in the draft are can't miss. Does that make sense? That's my opinion.

https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-s-top-50-2021-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-2-0

By the way, thanks for weighing in. I see you on Twitter. Please don't be a stranger here.

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 3/20/2021 4:36:52 PM >

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 663

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/20/2021 4:24:22 PM

The Happy Norseman

Posts: 758
Joined: 12/2/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

LT. Unless Brown is a G we won't be signing him because Cleveland will be the LT.

G. The two guard positions will be covered with a mid-tier FA and a 2nd-3rd rounder via a move up in the draft.

DE. Paye will be drafted at #14 and we will have the makings of a hell of a DL.

S and 3 WR. Resourced via the rest of the cap they can spend as well as the mid-round picks. Those positions will be manned only in a technical sense as they will be void of upper tier talent.

CB. Peterson, Dantzler, Gladney, and Hughes will be the top four CBs.

Every year Spielman tries to put an oline together with bailing wire and chewing gum, but since he knows that this year will be his last without a serious playoff push, I think he'll take the line seriously in the draft and will devote the team's 1st and one of their 3rd's to address the position. Alijah Vera-Tucker in the 1st and Ben Cleveland in the 3rd would help immensely.

The Vikings haven't chosen a DE in the first round since 2005. Considering the success they've had with guys like Griffen and Hunter I think it's likely they continue the trend of waiting until later rounds to address their need for a DE.

_____________________________

If the Cubs can win the World Series...

Post #: 664

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/20/2021 8:15:07 PM

bstinger

Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
reiff: $7.5m
harris: $5m

i cannot believe that spielman didn't sign off on those numbers...he could have easily lowered them with a signing bonus and three-year deals....

That's flat out stupid. Harris 5ml cheaper than Patrick Peterson.

Losing your best olineman on a 27th ranked oline is also foolish.

I'm going to hold off criticizing OLine moves until we are done. Although our track record is poor.

Maybe come May we are looking at a Brown Jr./Vera Tucker/Bradbury/ Cleveland/O'Neill Oline with subs Hill, Udoh, Lamp, Hinton.

it very well could be brown and an early draft pick....

Guessing if we trade for Brown #14 will be for DE or CB.

Since we signed Peterson I doubt we go CB in the 1st.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan

Post #: 665

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/20/2021 10:36:58 PM

Guest

Continuing to kick the can down the street on OLine is just par for the course for this front office.

It is supposed to be a very solid OLine draft, but the draft can be such a crap shoot, and drafting for need is a damn slippery slope.

Wouldn’t be pissed with Kwity Paye. Probably good value at #14. (Seen him mocked in the 20’s as well)

Post #: 666

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/21/2021 1:45:03 AM

marty

Posts: 13048
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online

I could see the Vikings drafting a CB in the 1st round, moving Peterson to safety.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 667

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/21/2021 3:04:33 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9562
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
.
i support going all-in over the next two years...cousins is our man, like it or not - if we don't get to the superbowl blow the team up in 2023 for a new quarterback rebuild....

that said, it would be great to extend harrison, kendricks, and hunter - give hunter big bucks payable in 2023 and trade him for a bounty if we go rebuild....

with the money this season we should sign two of the best guards left in free agency...that way we can go bpa in the draft - and if players like micah parsons, or wr's smith or chase or somebody really special is there we can pull the trigger...or if some of the qb's drop we can trade back - maybe more than once for a slew of early picks without trading ourselves out of the position of still getting a great pick....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 668

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/21/2021 3:13:58 AM

Todd M

Posts: 40668
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

RIGH ON!

Post #: 669

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/21/2021 9:03:59 AM

geoffrey greitzer

Posts: 1450
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

Bruce,

Patterson is a great developer of the DL. Maybe one of the third round picks.

Although it would be nice to start off with a star.

posting here.. its my brother Michael on twitter I believe. He runs the V61. We are both lifelong fans, but he writes about it, while I do coffee.

Cousins needs as do all QB's a place to step up into. Interior OL has become a priority. This has to be addressed. and by no means do I think Cousins has come close to mastering that.

Post #: 670

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/21/2021 9:29:15 AM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

Michael Brockers going to the Lions for a 2023 7th round pick. Wow. So cheap.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 671

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/21/2021 9:56:46 AM

thebigo

Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Michael Brockers going to the Lions for a 2023 7th round pick. Wow. So cheap.

That's like a 14th round pick in the 2021 draft isn't it?

Post #: 672

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/21/2021 12:23:21 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

Another one off the list of consideration.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31101610/safety-keanu-neal-agrees-one-year-deal-dallas-cowboys-source-says

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 673

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/21/2021 2:57:33 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

LT. Unless Brown is a G we won't be signing him because Cleveland will be the LT.

G. The two guard positions will be covered with a mid-tier FA and a 2nd-3rd rounder via a move up in the draft.

DE. Paye will be drafted at #14 and we will have the makings of a hell of a DL.

S and 3 WR. Resourced via the rest of the cap they can spend as well as the mid-round picks. Those positions will be manned only in a technical sense as they will be void of upper tier talent.

CB. Peterson, Dantzler, Gladney, and Hughes will be the top four CBs.

Every year Spielman tries to put an oline together with bailing wire and chewing gum, but since he knows that this year will be his last without a serious playoff push, I think he'll take the line seriously in the draft and will devote the team's 1st and one of their 3rd's to address the position. Alijah Vera-Tucker in the 1st and Ben Cleveland in the 3rd would help immensely.

The Vikings haven't chosen a DE in the first round since 2005. Considering the success they've had with guys like Griffen and Hunter I think it's likely they continue the trend of waiting until later rounds to address their need for a DE.

True they love the mid-round DEs, time for a 1st rounder. Paye plays at a premium position. A position we don't have a starter at. On what was the 30th ranked defense. Maximize the ability of Pierce, Tomlinson, and Hunter by getting him.

Look up the times our secondary was good. Each time we just so happened to have a great DL.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 3/21/2021 3:19:43 PM >

Post #: 674

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/21/2021 3:03:10 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

It feels like to me the edge rushers are more hit or miss, but the offensive linemen rated high in the draft are can't miss. It feels like to me the guards are more hit or miss, but Paye is can't miss.

Do NOT draft a tackle and try to make him a guard. OT Slater is saying he wants to play tackle. Good for him for speaking up. And scratch him off the IOL list unless you want him disgruntled from the get go. Leatherwood played LT for Alabama this past year, but he also played RG another year. And in the initial 4th and goal in the championship game, there he was at RG. They ran behind him. TD. So he is someone to consider later but not too late.

- Vera-Tucker is maybe the best pure guard, but is a player to draft in the 20s so they better not panic and reach.

- Then there is maybe the second ranked guard Wyatt Davis who got destroyed in the Alabama massacre of Ohio State.

- One of the Oklahoma guards is ranked up there. Maybe we can draft he and Davis and have an Elflein-Samia redux!

When you step out of the fantasy world, the guards in the draft are crap. Some will pan out but it's a crap shoot.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 3/21/2021 3:30:14 PM >

Post #: 675