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RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 11:50:58 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5870
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I don't like doing this but Zone Coverage has a way to create enough space by adding Void years to Kirk...The Pack is doing it too

The Packers have created $10.892M in 2022 cap space by restructuring the contract of NT Kenny Clark, per source.

Green Bay converted $13.615 of Clark’s 2022 compensation into a signing bonus and added two void years to his deal.

Chipping away to create some space...

The Packers have the worst cap situation in the league - hallelujah - second only to the Saints.

Why would we copy them? Without Rogers they'd stink.

Not copying the packers or anyone just posting what Zone Coverage discussed:
https://zonecoverage.com/2022/minnesota-vikings-news/how-the-vikings-can-fix-the-cap-while-keeping-kirk-cousins/

Their plan would have the Vikings with $33 million in dead cap in 2025 just from Hunter and Cousins and another $6 million in dead cap in 2026.

Why are so many Vikings fans terrified of having a 6-11 season in 2022 that they'd be willing to sell out an entire upcoming season (2025) so we MIGHT go 9-8 and scratch a playoff berth in 2022?

Is it because so few want to admit that Spielman and Zimmer were horseshit at their jobs? Is is some desperate need to show Kirk is "top ten"? I just don't get it.

New GM and new coach should be looking to clear the deck and start fresh. There's a reason the jobs they got were available and it was because it was a bad team.

Because you either go all in or not...you have owners that are willing to go all in. Some are making it all about Kirk; it isn't.

You don't have to wreck the cap situation just ride it out for 22. The Offense is ready to go. How many years does Cook, Thielen, Smith, Kendricks, Hunter have?
Those are the reasons.

Cincy caught lightning in a bottle. It's possible with new coaching that we could make a run.

As far as be worried about dead cap $$$ in 2025, let's worry about that in 2025. Cap might be 300M by then.

You are joking right?

Are you taking into account the Egyptians coming up from behind? No.

A bazillion things have to change before this coming season just to improve on last season’s dismal record. And that’s just defensive personnel. Maybe after FA / the draft there will be actual circumstances - besides larval coaching changes - that will lead to optimism.

Right now … as we stand … we are just looking through desperately hopeful lenses.

Post #: 4076

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:05:23 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28530
Status: offline

Where is this team broke? On the field, it is the defense. It simply cannot add FA talent because its cap situation is broke. It also lacks any extra day one or day two picks (and has no 4th rounder) from which to build.

It can restructure, assuming players will buy in to that, to continue targeting essentially mid-to low tier talent. Even with restructures, with so many holes on D, and a couple on the OL, it is more likely we'd sign 1-2 mid-tier types and a bunch of low tiers. So there is no improvement from what has occurred the past few years. Roll out 2021 again, and with dead cap in the outyears, rinse and repeat to a degree after 2022.

Conversely, it can try to trade players that are underperforming with bloated contracts. Hunter might net a 2nd. For the rest, take what you can get. Those players not traded are cut. This way, the team has more draft assets to help build the team the way it should be... through the draft (with free agency rounding things out). There will be pain in the cap, but per above it's not like we were going to be spenders anyway nor spend enough to be competitive in the real sense. In return for the pain, we have an edge up in the draft and a great cap situation.

Post #: 4077

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:09:17 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 13946
Status: offline

Almost… almost.. almost.. aaaaanndd.. mediocre…

60 year song and dance.

Time to change the band and write a new song..

_____________________________

**** you all.

Post #: 4078

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:13:32 PM

Pauldiercks1

Posts: 241
Joined: 2/1/2019
Status: offline

If we worry about Dead Cap $ for 2025 in 2025 that is a little late.
That's how you end up going "all in" for a 9-8 8-9 record telling yourself we have a chance. Sometimes the owners need to be told it's over. All teams have a few studs they think they can build around for another run.
Cincy was helped by having a QB on his rookie deal I think. Teams with young QB's almost have an advantage to win now.

Post #: 4079

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:23:15 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28530
Status: offline

There is no getting around the pain Spielman created. You can continue to pick at the wounds and never heal for years, or you can make it job #1 to fix the pain as quick as possible.

It might be different if we were in a real SB window. The harsh reality is we are coming off back to back losing seasons. Name the defensive starters who are legitimately expected to play at a high level in 2022 with no concerns. Difference makers. Heck, just players who we can reasonably count on to be consistently average or better. I can name one, maybe two. Kendricks and Smith, with diminishing returns and a $$$ contract on the latter.

So just what exactly are we trying to preserve with the pick at the wound approach?

Post #: 4080

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:24:01 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27378
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

If we worry about Dead Cap $ for 2025 in 2025 that is a little late.
That's how you end up going "all in" for a 9-8 8-9 record telling yourself we have a chance. Sometimes the owners need to be told it's over. All teams have a few studs they think they can build around for another run.
Cincy was helped by having a QB on his rookie deal I think. Teams with young QB's almost have an advantage to win now.

If Carolina throws a good deal out there (you take it) obviously. Same goes for anyone trying to get Hunter.

If I was to trade with Carolina I wouldn't want Darnold; I would take a piece from their defense. A defensive starter and a high pick. We can go after Winston very agressively and compete this year.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 4081

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:25:31 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27378
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

There is no getting around the pain Spielman created. You can continue to pick at the wounds and never heal for years, or you can make it job #1 to fix the pain as quick as possible.

It might be different if we were in a real SB window. The harsh reality is we are coming off back to back losing seasons. Name the defensive starters who are legitimately expected to play at a high level in 2022 with no concerns. Difference makers. Heck, just players who we can reasonably count on to be consistently average or better. I can name one, maybe two. Kendricks and Smith, with diminishing returns and a $$$ contract on the latter.

So just what exactly are we trying to preserve with the pick at the wound approach?

I would be fine with that too...See what you can get for Cook too....Mattison can start and the rookie RB looked good last year.

There are ways but it won't be easy. I look at what Cincy did in FA and it was GM of the year type work and everyone they signed but the DT (who was injured early) worked out. Some luck with a great plan.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 2/23/2022 12:26:53 PM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 4082

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:29:16 PM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

Cincinnati is currently about $49 million UNDER the cap for 2022. Their highest cap hit individual is currently... you can't make this up - Trae Waynes. They can potentially fix EVERY hole on the team this year. If they want Riley Reiff back they can have him for almost nothing because Reiff is already counting $2.750 million in dead cap. Cincy didn't just catch lightning in a bottle for 2021, they're set up to recatch it for many years to come.

WE HAVE TO TAKE A CHANCE ON A FRANCHISE QB IN THE DRAFT TO HAVE A CHANCE AT A SUPER BOWL. I refuse to let the fear of another Ponder keep me from wanting to try again. Remember, the biggest part of the Ponder fiasco wasn't that we drafted him - it was that we didn't admit the mistake and move on. That was a pattern we saw with many of our first-round-picks like Treadwell and currently with Bradbury. THIS WAS A RICK SPIELLMAN PROBLEM. We don't have to keep doing things that way.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 4083

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:33:25 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12147
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

I'm all for purging if it brings in a franchise mobile QB (Murray). Or if there was a can't miss prospect in college.

Purging because it is something different makes you the Lions.

Offense is in their prime right now in an offense driven league with a new innovative offensive coach. Blow it all up to re-build the defense???

Anyway, we can quit speculating in about 3 weeks.

< Message edited by Mark Anderson -- 2/23/2022 12:38:27 PM >

Post #: 4084

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:34:13 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28530
Status: offline

A few TalkVikes fans ideas of 'competing".

August: We are in the midst of a SB window, and anything less than HFA or one home playoff game is unacceptable.

November: If we win 5 of the last 6 we should be in the drivers seats for the last playoff spot. After that, anything can happen.

Post #: 4085

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:34:41 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33767
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

If we worry about Dead Cap $ for 2025 in 2025 that is a little late.
That's how you end up going "all in" for a 9-8 8-9 record telling yourself we have a chance. Sometimes the owners need to be told it's over. All teams have a few studs they think they can build around for another run.
Cincy was helped by having a QB on his rookie deal I think. Teams with young QB's almost have an advantage to win now.

If Carolina throws a good deal out there (you take it) obviously. Same goes for anyone trying to get Hunter.

If I was to trade with Carolina I wouldn't want Darnold; I would take a piece from their defense. A defensive starter and a high pick. We can go after Winston very agressively and compete this year.

I think Winston has demonstrated that you can't really compete with him.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 4086

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:36:31 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28530
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

I'm all for purging if it brings in a franchise mobile QB (Murray). Or if there was a can't miss prospect in college.

Purging because it is something different makes you the Lions.

You need one of those anyway. Stringing along high contracts means no extra picks to maneuver in the draft nor the cap space to sign a Murray type.

Post #: 4087

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:37:46 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33767
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

We may get a franchise QB in the draft and pigs may fly also. However, you miss on 100% of the shots you don't take so might as well.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 4088

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:39:12 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33767
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

I'm all for purging if it brings in a franchise mobile QB (Murray). Or if there was a can't miss prospect in college.

Purging because it is something different makes you the Lions.

Offense is in their prime right now in an offense driven league with a new innovative offensive coach. Blow it all up to re-build the defense???

Anyway, we can quit speculating in about 3 weeks.

Murray started strong, but sucked the 2nd half of last season. IMO the jury is very out on him.

Murray and Burrow were #1 overall picks. Herbert looks good. He was picked #6. Who was the last QB picked outside of the top 6 that turned out? Russell Wilson?

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 2/23/2022 12:42:20 PM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 4089

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:40:37 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28530
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

If we worry about Dead Cap $ for 2025 in 2025 that is a little late.
That's how you end up going "all in" for a 9-8 8-9 record telling yourself we have a chance. Sometimes the owners need to be told it's over. All teams have a few studs they think they can build around for another run.
Cincy was helped by having a QB on his rookie deal I think. Teams with young QB's almost have an advantage to win now.

Saw that a while back with Russell Wilson. Seattle used the cap 'savings' on their D.

KC with Mahommes, although that is in the midst of changing.

Josh Allen.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 2/23/2022 12:42:18 PM >

Post #: 4090

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:46:50 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12147
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

A few TalkVikes fans ideas of 'competing".

August: We are in the midst of a SB window, and anything less than HFA or one home playoff game is unacceptable.

November: If we win 5 of the last 6 we should be in the drivers seats for the last playoff spot. After that, anything can happen.

I remember a lot of "Coaching cost us this game" after almost every loss.

SB Homeboy!!!!

Post #: 4091

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:48:33 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77890
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Cincinnati is currently about $49 million UNDER the cap for 2022. Their highest cap hit individual is currently... you can't make this up - Trae Waynes. They can potentially fix EVERY hole on the team this year. If they want Riley Reiff back they can have him for almost nothing because Reiff is already counting $2.750 million in dead cap. Cincy didn't just catch lightning in a bottle for 2021, they're set up to recatch it for many years to come.

2 years, 5 games, 12 Tackles, 1 PD, 0 INT.

Post #: 4092

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:49:14 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12147
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

I'm all for purging if it brings in a franchise mobile QB (Murray). Or if there was a can't miss prospect in college.

Purging because it is something different makes you the Lions.

Offense is in their prime right now in an offense driven league with a new innovative offensive coach. Blow it all up to re-build the defense???

Anyway, we can quit speculating in about 3 weeks.

Murray started strong, but sucked the 2nd half of last season. IMO the jury is very out on him.

Murray and Burrow were #1 overall picks. Herbert looks good. He was picked #6. Who was the last QB picked outside of the top 6 that turned out? Russell Wilson?

Murray sucked because Hopkins got hurt. If there is any reasonable chance of acquiring him, you go for it.

Post #: 4093

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:50:42 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28530
Status: offline

Wonder what KOC's outlook is on QBs being selected very high (like #1 overall with Goff) vs finding success with a good veteran QB (and Winston is NOT in that category).

Post #: 4094

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:51:25 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12147
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Cincinnati is currently about $49 million UNDER the cap for 2022. Their highest cap hit individual is currently... you can't make this up - Trae Waynes. They can potentially fix EVERY hole on the team this year. If they want Riley Reiff back they can have him for almost nothing because Reiff is already counting $2.750 million in dead cap. Cincy didn't just catch lightning in a bottle for 2021, they're set up to recatch it for many years to come.

2 years, 5 games, 12 Tackles, 1 PD, 0 INT.

They get their OLine in order and they will be tough to beat.

Looking back on it, how about we overpay for DJ Reader instead of Pierce and Tomlinson?

Post #: 4095

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:52:40 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28530
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

A few TalkVikes fans ideas of 'competing".

August: We are in the midst of a SB window, and anything less than HFA or one home playoff game is unacceptable.

November: If we win 5 of the last 6 we should be in the drivers seats for the last playoff spot. After that, anything can happen.

I remember a lot of "Coaching cost us this game" after almost every loss.

SB Homeboy!!!!

That's like the Lakers fans blaming things on Vogel. Currently we can't even field a D.

Post #: 4096

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:55:48 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9550
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
.
if i'm advising o'connell, kwesi, et al...i have them fly down to where ever mond is and give him a really good look - set up some ball catchers at a local college/high school...it's very possible that he's a better option than anyone in this year's draft, and it would help them decide what they want to do....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 4097

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:57:43 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12147
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Wonder what KOC's outlook is on QBs being selected very high (like #1 overall with Goff) vs finding success with a good veteran QB (and Winston is NOT in that category).

McVay soured on Goff pretty quick. I would think that would influence KOC.

I'll throw out this hail mary

Cousins to Cleveland for 2nd rounder

Murray to Vikings for #12, 2023 1st rounder and Cleveland 2nd Rounder (2022)

Mayfield to AZ

Post #: 4098

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 12:59:34 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12147
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

A few TalkVikes fans ideas of 'competing".

August: We are in the midst of a SB window, and anything less than HFA or one home playoff game is unacceptable.

November: If we win 5 of the last 6 we should be in the drivers seats for the last playoff spot. After that, anything can happen.

I remember a lot of "Coaching cost us this game" after almost every loss.

SB Homeboy!!!!

That's like the Lakers fans blaming things on Vogel. Currently we can't even field a D.

Now there's a purge that needs to happen. While LBJ and AD still have some value.

Post #: 4099

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2022 1:04:12 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77890
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
if i'm advising o'connell, kwesi, et al...i have them fly down to where ever mond is and give him a really good look - set up some ball catchers at a local college/high school...it's very possible that he's a better option than anyone in this year's draft, and it would help them decide what they want to do....

I wish I had 25% of your optimism in Mond.

Post #: 4100