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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 11:23:03 AM

Daniel Lee Young

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

RE: the double penalty on Booth. I've seen 2 penalties on the same guy a bunch but they enforced both Didn't even know that was a thing.

The explanation given was the personal foul was after the original foul, and as such was added to the result.

It was ticky tacky bs that favored the home team.

Teaching moment.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 11:39:05 AM

drviking

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From: South Dakota
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Yep, DrV..

I’m not sold on the “franchise” Running back, any longer.

The game has changed, if your OL can make blocks, pretty much any RB with talent and moves will break off a game changer.

Paying millions of dollars a year, to one player, to run the human enema play 15 times a game is a waste of time and money.

agreed, its a passing league

i wanted to let cook walk because of the salary ramifications, but the last regime loved their bell cow backs

i was glad to turn the page, i was ready 2 seasons ago, but I digress

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Post #: 5777

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 11:49:28 AM

Phil Riewer

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From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Yep, DrV..

I’m not sold on the “franchise” Running back, any longer.

The game has changed, if your OL can make blocks, pretty much any RB with talent and moves will break off a game changer.

Paying millions of dollars a year, to one player, to run the human enema play 15 times a game is a waste of time and money.

agreed, its a passing league

i wanted to let cook walk because of the salary ramifications, but the last regime loved their bell cow backs

i was glad to turn the page, i was ready 2 seasons ago, but I digress

I have zero problems with Cook being the bell cow at his price...he doesn't get expensive until next year; the issue was paying AP over 12 million and then his contract the next year was under a million.

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Post #: 5778

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 12:24:05 PM

Nate

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Quick assessment from last night:

Offense
- Mannion was pretty bad. The one long drive was ok but the floater out of the endzone on 3rd down just had me SMH. He is who we think he is lol. I think they should increase Mond's reps over his to see if he can build upon this week's outing.
- Mond was better than I expected. He missed some easy shorter throws, floated a few passes and didn't see an open guy in the endzone, but he was able to move the ball, had some mobility and did make some excellent throws. I give him the clear QB2 here but agree we should keep looking.
- RBs: Chandler was very good. He ran North/South and showed some 'wiggle'. The other backs were decent as well, I think we have a good stable going into the season.
- OL: The first unit didn't get a lot of push in the middle. The OTs were fine. The second/third stringers did well. I'd like to see Ingram in with the 1s and Reed at Center with the 1s next week. I'd love to see the OL against SF in practice.
- Overall: with few starters playing and having Mannion start it off, I was pretty happy that we were competitive in this game, especially being our first game and it being their second. The play-calling was good, I liked all the PA passes. We did run the dreaded run up the middle on 2nd and 10, but maybe that was due to Mannion being at the helm haha. Overall the team looked prepared like they knew what they were trying to do. No delay of games, no false starts, holding, etc. Very nice.

Defense:
- Secondary: Lots of open receivers for most of the night. It did get better but still there were a lot of soft or blown coverages and in general looked a little lost back there. Hopefully next week it's crisper
- LB: Asamoah looked pretty decent last night. Dye was pretty brutal. Hicks made some nice plays.
- DL: First team had some stoutness, but the Raiders did run pretty rampant for most of the night. We did have 4 sacks, with a 5th negated. Didn't run much but a base D so not much to speak of here.
- 3-4: It will be interesting to see this evolve. Teams typically struggle to run wide on a 3-4 but can have success up the middle if the nose isn't a beast. I think last night the first team looked ok, but the backups (other than Watts) were somewhat meh. I noticed the LBs were way back on many of the runs up the middle where they would start to tackle after 3 yards were already gained. I'm not sure if this is scheme or what but they had some easy runs with that lineup.
- overall: I think it'll be a frustrating beginning to the NFL year as the illegal contacts are going to really change games around the league. I see their position on offensive holding is the same (unless the D is calf-roped, no call, and even then if it's against GB, still no call). There were some very questionable ones last night, and the double penalty on Boothe was BS IMO). In any case, we ran a pretty basic D and gave up a lot of yards on the ground and in the air. Hopefully it gets better.

STs:
- good punting, good returns, made our FGs and XPs. The coverage units were a little worrisome as they almost gave up 2 returns. WIP IMO.

Post #: 5779

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 1:11:24 PM

stfrank

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From: Twin Cities
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I caught a little bit of this morning's presser on KFAN and the only thing I remember KOC saying about Manion was, " he did a good job of getting in and out of the huddle."
I agree with that statement, but we need more than that out of our backup QB.....like maybe be able to make an occasional play.

Post #: 5780

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 1:27:49 PM

Ricky J

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

RE: the double penalty on Booth. I've seen 2 penalties on the same guy a bunch but they enforced both Didn't even know that was a thing.

Didn't see the game. Was one of them a dead ball penalty?

Post #: 5781

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 1:28:13 PM

Ricky J

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quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

I see JC Tretter tweeted complaints about the field in Chicago, saying the league needs to step in...

I was not a big believer in the NFLPA union being a reason why teams are not signing him....but, maybe there is something to it

Yeah, and you should try going to a restroom in the middle of a game there - worse than the 'Dome..

Post #: 5782

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 1:45:32 PM

Jeff Jesser

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From: Southern Cal
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

RE: the double penalty on Booth. I've seen 2 penalties on the same guy a bunch but they enforced both Didn't even know that was a thing.

Didn't see the game. Was one of them a dead ball penalty?

I guess it had to have been but I clearly missed that if it was mentioned. I don't think it was though. No big deal. You can tell we're learning. There was a lot of contact penalties by the D. Hopefully they clean that up.

Post #: 5783

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 1:56:17 PM

Ricky J

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

RE: the double penalty on Booth. I've seen 2 penalties on the same guy a bunch but they enforced both Didn't even know that was a thing.

Didn't see the game. Was one of them a dead ball penalty?

I guess it had to have been but I clearly missed that if it was mentioned. I don't think it was though. No big deal. You can tell we're learning. There was a lot of contact penalties by the D. Hopefully they clean that up.

Is it possible the officials sending a message more than the Vikes are undisciplined?

Post #: 5784

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 2:01:00 PM

Phil Riewer

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From: MN
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Charch was way down on Mond on Friday's Football Feast. His tweet today:

Paul Charchian
@PaulCharchian
·
5h
The biggest positives from Minnesota's first game were:
- RB Ty Chandler (#32, watch the footwork and hips)
- RB Kene Nwangwu
- RG Ed Engram
- QB Kellen Mond

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Post #: 5785

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 2:20:44 PM

David Levine

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Judd is still down on Mond (but not as down). And think Mannion should be cut. Tweets:

I’m charting all of Mond’s throws. So far I’ve got him doing what he’s done in camp. Go empty and he’s great. I’m also starting to think today makes him QB 3. More later as film work continues.

I have Mond with six bad passes or poor plays on passes. That includes two plays in the Red Zone in which he held the ball and missed wide open targets. The deeper into the game he got, the better he got as the competition became weaker. I have three nice throws, including 2 TDs.

Overall, I think Mond moved into a position of being QB3 today and before today I was thinking practice squad. In no way can you put him into a regular-season game with this group of skill position players in anything but a special package. Mannion, obviously, should be cut.

Post #: 5786

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 2:22:16 PM

marty

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You could see in the college clips, Booth and Cine are likely to commit penalties, unless they can coach some of that out of them.

Someone posted something awhile back that many successful teams over the years were at the top as far as picking up aggressive penalties.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 2:27:20 PM

stfrank

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

RE: the double penalty on Booth. I've seen 2 penalties on the same guy a bunch but they enforced both Didn't even know that was a thing.

Didn't see the game. Was one of them a dead ball penalty?

I guess it had to have been but I clearly missed that if it was mentioned. I don't think it was though. No big deal. You can tell we're learning. There was a lot of contact penalties by the D. Hopefully they clean that up.

Maybe we are going to play Packer style and commit PI on every playing knowing they won't call them all.
As for the 2 calls, I thought the ref said it was PI, and unsportsmanlike conduct at the end of the play so it was tacked on after the PI.

Post #: 5788

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 2:37:11 PM

Karl Juhnke

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Listening to the Mond ‘experts’ over the past year has been laughable. As a rookie he struggled a bit out of the gate in limited preseason action, and was promptly ignored and forgotten by a coach who hates quarterbacks. I can’t think of a more toxic environment to develop a rookie QB.

Now, likewise yesterdays game is also not a good indicator of success or failure. The fact is we still know zero about Mond. Anyone who claims to know otherwise is just trying to sound smart.

But we’re at least know he has a chance to be competent. He will at least be given a chance now.

< Message edited by Karl Juhnke -- 8/15/2022 2:38:40 PM >

Post #: 5789

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 2:42:16 PM

Ricky J

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

RE: the double penalty on Booth. I've seen 2 penalties on the same guy a bunch but they enforced both Didn't even know that was a thing.

Didn't see the game. Was one of them a dead ball penalty?

I guess it had to have been but I clearly missed that if it was mentioned. I don't think it was though. No big deal. You can tell we're learning. There was a lot of contact penalties by the D. Hopefully they clean that up.

Maybe we are going to play Packer style and commit PI on every playing knowing they won't call them all.
As for the 2 calls, I thought the ref said it was PI, and unsportsmanlike conduct at the end of the play so it was tacked on after the PI.

re: at the end of the play

- I think it has to be "after" to tack on another set of penalized yards

Post #: 5790

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 2:46:03 PM

drviking

Posts: 36160
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Dakota
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

RE: the double penalty on Booth. I've seen 2 penalties on the same guy a bunch but they enforced both Didn't even know that was a thing.

Didn't see the game. Was one of them a dead ball penalty?

I guess it had to have been but I clearly missed that if it was mentioned. I don't think it was though. No big deal. You can tell we're learning. There was a lot of contact penalties by the D. Hopefully they clean that up.

Maybe we are going to play Packer style and commit PI on every playing knowing they won't call them all.
As for the 2 calls, I thought the ref said it was PI, and unsportsmanlike conduct at the end of the play so it was tacked on after the PI.

re: at the end of the play

- I think it has to be "after" to tack on another set of penalized yards

i watched the LV feed, and they showed the replay once, and it cut away....but from what i could see on the PI, it was very questionable....and i fully expected the after the play penalty to be on the otherside of the field because it was such a non-descript play

EDIT: FWIW, boothe has been mixing it up during camp, too...so unsportsmanlike penalties may be a thing with him

< Message edited by drviking -- 8/15/2022 2:54:11 PM >

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 2:46:19 PM

Trekgeekscott

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Could consider getting Sloter back, he wants to come back to Minnesota:

https://vikingsterritory.com/2022/top_news/purple-rumor-mill-mannion-to-start-sloter-calls-for-reunion-no-lance-next-weekend

He'll go anywhere that will put him on their 53 man roster.

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Post #: 5792

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 2:51:39 PM

drviking

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Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Dakota
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Listening to the Mond ‘experts’ over the past year has been laughable. As a rookie he struggled a bit out of the gate in limited preseason action, and was promptly ignored and forgotten by a coach who hates quarterbacks. I can’t think of a more toxic environment to develop a rookie QB.

Now, likewise yesterdays game is also not a good indicator of success or failure. The fact is we still know zero about Mond. Anyone who claims to know otherwise is just trying to sound smart.

But we’re at least know he has a chance to be competent. He will at least be given a chance now.

so...you're saying there's a chance!

----Floyd Christmas

i hated seeing Mannion come back in the game, but as someone posted earlier, it was good to see that the difference was not only in the caliber of players....ie when Mannion came back in with the 3s and 4s, he looked worse than Mond with the 3s and 4s

I am in with Mond getting every rep available....we can find any Mannion on the scrap pile if needed.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 2:52:38 PM

drviking

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Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Dakota
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Could consider getting Sloter back, he wants to come back to Minnesota:

https://vikingsterritory.com/2022/top_news/purple-rumor-mill-mannion-to-start-sloter-calls-for-reunion-no-lance-next-weekend

He'll go anywhere that will put him on their 53 man roster.

yep

you can find any of these options at any time, give Mond the reps until proven otherwise

YMMV

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 3:07:15 PM

drviking

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From: South Dakota
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I dont need much from my QB2, if you need one, you are probably screwed. I just need that small crazy chance of a Keenum type year

Mannion does not have that......Mond might, Sloter might.....just a small chance versus no chance

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Post #: 5795

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 3:17:35 PM

Phil Riewer

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From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking
I dont need much from my QB2, if you need one, you are probably screwed. I just need that small crazy chance of a Keenum type year
Mannion does not have that......Mond might, Sloter might.....just a small chance versus no chance

Dumbest thing last year was lack of reps given to Mond. They gave him game reps at the end of the Cousin Covid game and started Mannion. I think Zimmer loves developing defense; didn't seem as concerned in a good backup QB or oline they lucked out into Case and Joe Berger. No reason not to give Mond a ton of reps during Preseason last year either.

KOC seems to want to develop depth every where.

Denny had capable qb 2 & 3. I think Mond can be that (2 or 3); we need another.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 3:35:46 PM

Ricky J

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quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

RE: the double penalty on Booth. I've seen 2 penalties on the same guy a bunch but they enforced both Didn't even know that was a thing.

Didn't see the game. Was one of them a dead ball penalty?

I guess it had to have been but I clearly missed that if it was mentioned. I don't think it was though. No big deal. You can tell we're learning. There was a lot of contact penalties by the D. Hopefully they clean that up.

Maybe we are going to play Packer style and commit PI on every playing knowing they won't call them all.
As for the 2 calls, I thought the ref said it was PI, and unsportsmanlike conduct at the end of the play so it was tacked on after the PI.

re: at the end of the play

- I think it has to be "after" to tack on another set of penalized yards

i watched the LV feed, and they showed the replay once, and it cut away....but from what i could see on the PI, it was very questionable....and i fully expected the after the play penalty to be on the otherside of the field because it was such a non-descript play

EDIT: FWIW, boothe has been mixing it up during camp, too...so unsportsmanlike penalties may be a thing with him

Good time to have 'em then - coaches have a reason to have a little face-to-face time w/ him ...

Post #: 5797

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 3:37:17 PM

Phil Riewer

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Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

Dustin Baker
@DustBaker
·
6h
Kirk Cousins 'NFL Top 100' Ranking,
Since 2016:

2016 = 85th
2017 = 70th
2018 = 94th
2019 = 78th
2020 = 58th
2021 = Unranked
2022 = 99th

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Post #: 5798

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 4:13:25 PM

drviking

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Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Dakota
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking
I dont need much from my QB2, if you need one, you are probably screwed. I just need that small crazy chance of a Keenum type year
Mannion does not have that......Mond might, Sloter might.....just a small chance versus no chance

Dumbest thing last year was lack of reps given to Mond. They gave him game reps at the end of the Cousin Covid game and started Mannion. I think Zimmer loves developing defense; didn't seem as concerned in a good backup QB or oline they lucked out into Case and Joe Berger. No reason not to give Mond a ton of reps during Preseason last year either.

KOC seems to want to develop depth every where.

Denny had capable qb 2 & 3. I think Mond can be that (2 or 3); we need another.

with the explosion of QB salaries, i think that era is probably over.

if you have a top paid QB, you can only afford a rookie salary backup

If you have a rookie salary QB, you may be able to afford one of the 'quality" back up QBs

you have to luck into a Keenum or Henieke career year (or really luck into a Brady situastion)...

Just give me a backup that has some small chance....Mannion aint it..IF Mond can show a little more improvement over the next 2 games, I am willing to roll with him

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/15/2022 4:14:19 PM

Trekgeekscott

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From: United Federation of Planets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

I dont need much from my QB2, if you need one, you are probably screwed. I just need that small crazy chance of a Keenum type year

Mannion does not have that......Mond might, Sloter might.....just a small chance versus no chance

The best to expect out of most QB2s is they can come in and win you a game or two until the starter comes back. if your starter is going to be out for an extended period, most teams would indeed be screwed. Case was a special case. and a one time wonder. He did well be cause our WRs, Theilen and Diggs would win almost every contested wounded duck that guy threw up for grabs.

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Post #: 5800