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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 8:13:39 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28619
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

It isn't time to blow up the team...it is time to change coaches though.

I would keep Spielman....just look at the mid to late round talent playing at RB and WR. If it was up to me I would go after Jim Caldwell, Doug Pederson, or Bienemy.

Who hired Zimmer? Who extended Kirk in competition with no one? Who extended Barr, Rudy, Smith with high guarantees at the tail end of their careers? Who overpays the wrong positions (RB, S, LB) while having the worst IOL in the league?

Spielman isn't horrible, but he's not that good either. Every team finds guys. How many get nothing out of the first round for years in a row, ending only when JJ falls into his lap?

Spielman has to go with the rest. The Wilfs need to break from their middling start of ownership by adapting to the way the league is now, not continuing with 1950s Era football.

Zimmer guys were extended...Smith, Barr, Kendricks, Hunter, Rhodes...Rudolph, Thielen, and Cousins I would put on Spielman but look what 15 million gave back....Tomlinson, Vigil, Cole, Richardson, and Patrick Peterson...where would we have been this year w/o them?

Outside of the playoffs, looking in?

Nailed it.

As an aside, Phil is way off about the $15M in pixie dust RS got soooo much for.

Tomlinson alone was $15.9M. Per Spotrac: $15.9 fully guaranteed at signing (signing bonus + 2021 salary + 2021 roster bonus). Regardless, 2021 was the appetizer for Tomlinson's two-year deal. Phil fails to see that.

Why Vigil and Cole are continually mentioned among key roster injuries, where would we be without them, etc. is crazy.

Post #: 2226

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 8:23:19 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Dan Graca @DanGraca
If you don't have a QB, you don't have a chance

Post #: 2227

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 8:24:06 AM

jbusse

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

Who starts in place of Udoh, Wyatt Davis or Dakota Dozier?

Post #: 2228

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 8:34:45 AM

Arlowe84

Posts: 331
Joined: 9/30/2019
Status: offline

This team desperately needs Hunter to come back healthy.

The current group of DE's are major bad. Wonnum should. not be a starter in this league (trading Weatherly prolly was not a good idea).
Jones is young, but has shown nothing as of yet.
Dudes were just getting. destroyed by a back up Rams Oline.

A little worried about Hunter considering he's coming of neck and peck. surgeries. Major wear on the body.

Regardless of what direction the team goes next year, seems we have major holes. at DE and IOL (Bradbury and our RGs need to go)
CBs too depending on what happens to Peterson. Dantlzer seems to be the only young CB with any promise.
If Barr's last year, LB too

If they don't get the DE position figured out, the D will be in a wold of hurt next year.

Seems to be the story of Spielman's teams, always in desperate need in multiple areas.

Why there is so much parity in the NFL today, it's hard to be good in all areas with free agency, injuries, etc.
But you can't be grossly deficient like we seem to be in areas.

< Message edited by Arlowe84 -- 12/28/2021 8:36:24 AM >

Post #: 2229

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 8:37:55 AM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

It isn't time to blow up the team...it is time to change coaches though.

I would keep Spielman....just look at the mid to late round talent playing at RB and WR. If it was up to me I would go after Jim Caldwell, Doug Pederson, or Bienemy.

Who hired Zimmer? Who extended Kirk in competition with no one? Who extended Barr, Rudy, Smith with high guarantees at the tail end of their careers? Who overpays the wrong positions (RB, S, LB) while having the worst IOL in the league?

Spielman isn't horrible, but he's not that good either. Every team finds guys. How many get nothing out of the first round for years in a row, ending only when JJ falls into his lap?

Spielman has to go with the rest. The Wilfs need to break from their middling start of ownership by adapting to the way the league is now, not continuing with 1950s Era football.

Zimmer guys were extended...Smith, Barr, Kendricks, Hunter, Rhodes...Rudolph, Thielen, and Cousins I would put on Spielman but look what 15 million gave back....Tomlinson, Vigil, Cole, Richardson, and Patrick Peterson...where would we have been this year w/o them?

You keep ignoring the fact that Spielman is in charge of the football operations, so he is responsible for all signings. He is also responsible for hiring Zimmer, so assigning blame to Zimmer for personnel moves is doubly ludicrous. Finally, the "season savers" you cite top out at OK for their performances this year so far.

Post #: 2230

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 8:51:09 AM

Todd M

Posts: 40689
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

I can envision just getting rid of Zimmer and being good next year. Just him. His voice. His mindset.

Everything else in place. Get a difference maker with our pick. Some of what I seen on offense this year makes me feel like we could be what I dreamed them to he this year. Keep the OC and Cousins and demand they push the ball down the field. Instead of run 1st it's run when we've got you where we want you and you can't stop it. Cousins lights it up not just accumulates #'s or he gets the boot. No contract talks until we go deep.

Post #: 2231

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 8:55:40 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

Ending the strange nepotism of this coaching staff would be a step in the right direction. There's too big of a chance that promotions aren't deserved; (see Adam Zimmer, Klint Kubiak, Scott Turner, etc.).

This is one the most disappointing things about football to me ...

We throw all this money and energy and hope and all other kinds of bullshti into being a fan of a team and the head coach hires his son, someone else's son, etc. as a coordinator - shit, let him coach the practice squad linebackers or something, I get that ...

- Sorry Zim, you hired your son as a DC and it failed miserably so, ...

I'm an Iowa grad. Know who there OC is? Ferentz, comes across as the nicest guy in the world but he's done other shitty things as well putting people into positions they have no business being in ... at the cost of losing games

Post #: 2232

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 8:58:01 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I can envision just getting rid of Zimmer and being good next year. Just him. His voice. His mindset.

Everything else in place. Get a difference maker with our pick. Some of what I seen on offense this year makes me feel like we could be what I dreamed them to he this year. Keep the OC and Cousins and demand they push the ball down the field. Instead of run 1st it's run when we've got you where we want you and you can't stop it. Cousins lights it up not just accumulates #'s or he gets the boot. No contract talks until we go deep.

I'm cool with that ... as long as we get rid of throwing in the flat with first look on 3rd down inside the 10 on a game we need to get into the playoffs

Post #: 2233

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 9:04:38 AM 2 votes

Todd M

Posts: 40689
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

If you're not avoiding a sack or taking advantage of something you're they're not allowed to throw it <5 yards.

Post #: 2234

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 9:17:11 AM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

Why would you keep the guy who built it to build what comes next?

Both Zimmer and Spielman are OK, and you could do worse. But it seems that neither will do any better than they have to this point, because they have had eight plus years to do so and have failed. Spielman hired Zimmer; what makes you trust his next coach or next draft or next set of signings to be any better than what we've seen.

I think he's good enough to get us a playoff game or two as often as not; that is not what I want to see from this team I have (insanely) followed for over half a century.

Post #: 2235

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 9:24:55 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Leroy Hoard and 10 others follow

VikeFans @VikeFans
·
14h
Only a rumor, but we have heard that the Wilfs have considered keeping Zimmer and moving on from Spielman. AGAIN, only a rumor so use it simply as fodder to discuss.

--

Rumor or not, I've never even give this a thought

Post #: 2236

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 9:33:28 AM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Leroy Hoard and 10 others follow

VikeFans @VikeFans
·
14h
Only a rumor, but we have heard that the Wilfs have considered keeping Zimmer and moving on from Spielman. AGAIN, only a rumor so use it simply as fodder to discuss.

--

Rumor or not, I've never even give this a thought

basically give the new GM time to evaluate makes some sense, also saves some money.

I would rather fire everybody and the new GM can look at film to evaluate.

Post #: 2237

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 10:44:23 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19462
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

If the Wilf's are dumb enough to fire RS and keep Zimmer I hope their new mecca crumbles to the ground (with nobody inside) and they realize they forgot to renew their insurance policy on it. Get rid of both or don't even bother. Why give another 5 year built in excuse? Would make zero sense.

Post #: 2238

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 10:54:32 AM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 14017
Status: offline

If.. and I don’t see this happening.. the keep dinobot Zimmer and hire a new, hopefully better GM, I hope the GM only takes the job if he has the authority to hire and fire team staff, including coaches.

What GM wants to be saddled with a mediocre head coach who thrives on firing his underlings to replace them thru nepotism?

This franchise needs better management and execution by game day coaches.. OC, DC, HC, fn hire a person strictly for clock management advice…

Hell.. I am just gonna shut up…

The one thing I have left to get me thru winter, has turned into a turdcicle…

FTS..

_____________________________

**** you all.

Post #: 2239

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 10:57:25 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77942
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I can envision just getting rid of Zimmer and being good next year. Just him. His voice. His mindset.

Everything else in place. Get a difference maker with our pick. Some of what I seen on offense this year makes me feel like we could be what I dreamed them to he this year. Keep the OC and Cousins and demand they push the ball down the field. Instead of run 1st it's run when we've got you where we want you and you can't stop it. Cousins lights it up not just accumulates #'s or he gets the boot. No contract talks until we go deep.

Why saddle a new HC with Zimmer's OC?

My guess is if you tell the HC candidates that they can't hire their own staff, you're going to be choosing from the bottom of the barrel.

Post #: 2240

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 10:59:08 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77942
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

It isn't time to blow up the team...it is time to change coaches though.

I would keep Spielman....just look at the mid to late round talent playing at RB and WR. If it was up to me I would go after Jim Caldwell, Doug Pederson, or Bienemy.

Who hired Zimmer? Who extended Kirk in competition with no one? Who extended Barr, Rudy, Smith with high guarantees at the tail end of their careers? Who overpays the wrong positions (RB, S, LB) while having the worst IOL in the league?

Spielman isn't horrible, but he's not that good either. Every team finds guys. How many get nothing out of the first round for years in a row, ending only when JJ falls into his lap?

Spielman has to go with the rest. The Wilfs need to break from their middling start of ownership by adapting to the way the league is now, not continuing with 1950s Era football.

Zimmer guys were extended...Smith, Barr, Kendricks, Hunter, Rhodes...Rudolph, Thielen, and Cousins I would put on Spielman but look what 15 million gave back....Tomlinson, Vigil, Cole, Richardson, and Patrick Peterson...where would we have been this year w/o them?

You keep ignoring the fact that Spielman is in charge of the football operations, so he is responsible for all signings. He is also responsible for hiring Zimmer, so assigning blame to Zimmer for personnel moves is doubly ludicrous. Finally, the "season savers" you cite top out at OK for their performances this year so far.

Literally every team has a version of "Tomlinson, Vigil, Cole, Richardson, and Patrick Peterson".

I don't want budget shopping or quantity of 7th round picks amassed to be the calling card of my GM.

Post #: 2241

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 11:41:42 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12177
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Who starts in place of Udoh, Wyatt Davis or Dakota Dozier?

I had a friend who went to the SF game. He sat next to Davis' dad. He said his son was doing most of his work at Center.

Post #: 2242

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 11:51:04 AM

joejitsu

Posts: 15424
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Who starts in place of Udoh, Wyatt Davis or Dakota Dozier?

I had a friend who went to the SF game. He sat next to Davis' dad. He said his son was doing most of his work at Center.

This is another thing that makes me nuts. Davis was a 5 star recruit out of high school at guard. He was an All Big 10 selection and a 1st team All American selection at guard. He was drafted as a guard. But, we think that a not very good offensive line coach is going to turn him into a center?

Post #: 2243

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 12:04:24 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

It isn't time to blow up the team...it is time to change coaches though.

I would keep Spielman....just look at the mid to late round talent playing at RB and WR. If it was up to me I would go after Jim Caldwell, Doug Pederson, or Bienemy.

Who hired Zimmer? Who extended Kirk in competition with no one? Who extended Barr, Rudy, Smith with high guarantees at the tail end of their careers? Who overpays the wrong positions (RB, S, LB) while having the worst IOL in the league?

Spielman isn't horrible, but he's not that good either. Every team finds guys. How many get nothing out of the first round for years in a row, ending only when JJ falls into his lap?

Spielman has to go with the rest. The Wilfs need to break from their middling start of ownership by adapting to the way the league is now, not continuing with 1950s Era football.

Zimmer guys were extended...Smith, Barr, Kendricks, Hunter, Rhodes...Rudolph, Thielen, and Cousins I would put on Spielman but look what 15 million gave back....Tomlinson, Vigil, Cole, Richardson, and Patrick Peterson...where would we have been this year w/o them?

You keep ignoring the fact that Spielman is in charge of the football operations, so he is responsible for all signings. He is also responsible for hiring Zimmer, so assigning blame to Zimmer for personnel moves is doubly ludicrous. Finally, the "season savers" you cite top out at OK for their performances this year so far.

Literally every team has a version of "Tomlinson, Vigil, Cole, Richardson, and Patrick Peterson".

I don't want budget shopping or quantity of 7th round picks amassed to be the calling card of my GM.

Good post.

Add 'screwing the cap with outrageous extensions' and you hit the trifecta of the Spielman era.

I give Spielman credit for trying to plug holes with slightly better than scrap heap level veterans (mostly) AND no cap ... but he is directly responsible for the cap crises to begin with, so ...

Post #: 2244

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 12:05:25 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77942
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Who starts in place of Udoh, Wyatt Davis or Dakota Dozier?

I had a friend who went to the SF game. He sat next to Davis' dad. He said his son was doing most of his work at Center.

This is another thing that makes me nuts. Davis was a 5 star recruit out of high school at guard. He was an All Big 10 selection and a 1st team All American selection at guard. He was drafted as a guard. But, we think that a not very good offensive line coach is going to turn him into a center?

There is a whole lot of "we're smarter than everyone else" coming from our coaching staff.

Post #: 2245

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 12:08:11 PM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Who starts in place of Udoh, Wyatt Davis or Dakota Dozier?

I had a friend who went to the SF game. He sat next to Davis' dad. He said his son was doing most of his work at Center.

This is another thing that makes me nuts. Davis was a 5 star recruit out of high school at guard. He was an All Big 10 selection and a 1st team All American selection at guard. He was drafted as a guard. But, we think that a not very good offensive line coach is going to turn him into a center?

Welcome to the MN Vikings' practice field, where tackles are made to play guard, guards are made to play center, and the player with the most clout starts unless injured with no regard to talent or past performance. Who plays tackle you ask? The one good one of course and then whatever garbage we have lying around can play left tackle because as we know, left tackle is the most meaningless and least important of the spots. Just put wrestlers in at all the spots if possible.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 2246

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 12:23:46 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

If.. and I don’t see this happening.. the keep dinobot Zimmer and hire a new, hopefully better GM, I hope the GM only takes the job if he has the authority to hire and fire team staff, including coaches.

What GM wants to be saddled with a mediocre head coach who thrives on firing his underlings to replace them thru nepotism?

This franchise needs better management and execution by game day coaches.. OC, DC, HC, fn hire a person strictly for clock management advice…

Hell.. I am just gonna shut up…

The one thing I have left to get me thru winter, has turned into a turdcicle…

FTS..

I swear this has pissed me off more than anything about Zimmer. F ego!!!

- seriously, just give it a try, admitting you are wrong or you made a mistake isnt that hard ...

Post #: 2247

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 12:27:59 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Who starts in place of Udoh, Wyatt Davis or Dakota Dozier?

I had a friend who went to the SF game. He sat next to Davis' dad. He said his son was doing most of his work at Center.

This is another thing that makes me nuts. Davis was a 5 star recruit out of high school at guard. He was an All Big 10 selection and a 1st team All American selection at guard. He was drafted as a guard. But, we think that a not very good offensive line coach is going to turn him into a center?

Welcome to the MN Vikings' practice field, where tackles are made to play guard, guards are made to play center, and the player with the most clout starts unless injured with no regard to talent or past performance. Who plays tackle you ask? The one good one of course and then whatever garbage we have lying around can play left tackle because as we know, left tackle is the most meaningless and least important of the spots. Just put wrestlers in at all the spots if possible.

Thatd prob work

- just a tip: if you're going to make fun of wrestlers you should probably keep it over the net and not face-to-face

Post #: 2248

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 12:30:07 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Eric Thompson
@eric_j_thompson
·
2h
Packers record against division opponents since Mike Zimmer took over in 2014:
Bears: 14-2
Lions: 9-6
Vikings: 7-7-1

I'm guessing that Green Bay fans will revel in the chance to put Zimmer away for good on Sunday night.

Post #: 2249

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/28/2021 12:34:01 PM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Who starts in place of Udoh, Wyatt Davis or Dakota Dozier?

I had a friend who went to the SF game. He sat next to Davis' dad. He said his son was doing most of his work at Center.

This is another thing that makes me nuts. Davis was a 5 star recruit out of high school at guard. He was an All Big 10 selection and a 1st team All American selection at guard. He was drafted as a guard. But, we think that a not very good offensive line coach is going to turn him into a center?

Welcome to the MN Vikings' practice field, where tackles are made to play guard, guards are made to play center, and the player with the most clout starts unless injured with no regard to talent or past performance. Who plays tackle you ask? The one good one of course and then whatever garbage we have lying around can play left tackle because as we know, left tackle is the most meaningless and least important of the spots. Just put wrestlers in at all the spots if possible.

Thatd prob work

- just a tip: if you're going to make fun of wrestlers you should probably keep it over the net and not face-to-face

I don't see that I made fun of wrestlers.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 2250