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RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/22/2023 4:03:42 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28612
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

I didnt mean to imply before that we cpuld find a franchise qb with third rd picks. you use whatever means you have at your disposal.

But you dont ignore taking chances … just because you cant load up this year and get inside the first 5-10 picks.


How high could a Hunter, Cleveland and own first get you? I have my doubts that we could get higher than 8-10. Maybe throw in next years 2nd?



The IOL sucks. Cleveland plays IOL.

#23, a low-ceiling run of the mill G coming upon FA, and a quagmire? You won't sniff the top 15.
Post #: 6076
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/22/2023 4:16:23 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27431
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

I didnt mean to imply before that we cpuld find a franchise qb with third rd picks. you use whatever means you have at your disposal.

But you dont ignore taking chances … just because you cant load up this year and get inside the first 5-10 picks.


How high could a Hunter, Cleveland and own first get you? I have my doubts that we could get higher than 8-10. Maybe throw in next years 2nd?



The IOL sucks. Cleveland plays IOL.

#23, a low-ceiling run of the mill G coming upon FA, and a quagmire? You won't sniff the top 15.


Throw in next years 2nd, this years first, and Hunter. What would it take to get to the top 10?

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 6077
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/22/2023 4:39:26 PM   
marty


Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online 		Move Ingram to LG, draft a right guard.

Get the best FA CB out there, or trade for one, one that is still pretty young.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 6078
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/22/2023 5:18:28 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline 		I think this offseason its addition by subtraction. Not sure we can package anything for a more valuable pick or player. Its about chopping and streamlining as much as possible. Think yakuza and finger shortening. Atone for cap situation then move on.
Post #: 6079
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/22/2023 5:43:48 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline 		I propose one of Kirk’s non-throwing fingers. Bring some balance to the business side of that partnership, for however long it lasts.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 2/22/2023 8:34:57 PM >
Post #: 6080
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/22/2023 5:48:48 PM   
Murph


Posts: 2027
Joined: 4/20/2008
From: PNW
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

Vikings need to blow up this team. Trade everyone they can for picks. The window is closed.

Keep Jefferson, Hockenson, Darrisaw, O'Neal, and a few young defensive players. Get rid of everyone else who is either old or overpaid including Cousins. If they can deal him, deal him. I'd love Trey Lance here. If he's bad we finish 5-12 and draft a QB next year. When was the last time the Vikings were in rebuild mode???




_____________________________

Hey Wilf's, let's build a "Perennial Super Bowl contender" not a "perennial playoff contender".
Post #: 6081
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/22/2023 9:26:55 PM   
bstinger


Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

Vikings need to blow up this team. Trade everyone they can for picks. The window is closed.

Keep Jefferson, Hockenson, Darrisaw, O'Neal, and a few young defensive players. Get rid of everyone else who is either old or overpaid including Cousins. If they can deal him, deal him. I'd love Trey Lance here. If he's bad we finish 5-12 and draft a QB next year. When was the last time the Vikings were in rebuild mode???

I agree with this path, and I did last year. It's the best chance to become SB worthy. However, ownership has consistently demonstrated that they won't allow this. They want to maintain competitiveness even if it prevents us from attaining greatness.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan
Post #: 6082
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2023 7:38:21 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27431
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen
Vikings need to blow up this team. Trade everyone they can for picks. The window is closed.
Keep Jefferson, Hockenson, Darrisaw, O'Neal, and a few young defensive players. Get rid of everyone else who is either old or overpaid including Cousins. If they can deal him, deal him. I'd love Trey Lance here. If he's bad we finish 5-12 and draft a QB next year. When was the last time the Vikings were in rebuild mode???

I agree with this path, and I did last year. It's the best chance to become SB worthy. However, ownership has consistently demonstrated that they won't allow this. They want to maintain competitiveness even if it prevents us from attaining greatness.


I don't know if that is the ownership or GM....I think the defense should be torn down to the studs not the offense and they could still be competitive.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 6083
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2023 8:34:58 AM   
beo

 

Posts: 2394
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline 		Too many QB needy teams... I don't think getting in the top 10 necessarily bags you the guy you want.
Do you really want to mortgage everything for the 3rd or 4th choice at qb in this draft... I don't think I would.

Houston 2
Indy 4
Seattle 5
Raiders 7
Atlanta 8
Carolina 9

(heck, even detroit at 6 could pick a qb if it's a guy they like)

Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?

< Message edited by beo -- 2/23/2023 8:37:15 AM >
Post #: 6084
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2023 9:08:34 AM   
Pauldiercks1

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 2/1/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen
Vikings need to blow up this team. Trade everyone they can for picks. The window is closed.
Keep Jefferson, Hockenson, Darrisaw, O'Neal, and a few young defensive players. Get rid of everyone else who is either old or overpaid including Cousins. If they can deal him, deal him. I'd love Trey Lance here. If he's bad we finish 5-12 and draft a QB next year. When was the last time the Vikings were in rebuild mode???

I agree with this path, and I did last year. It's the best chance to become SB worthy. However, ownership has consistently demonstrated that they won't allow this. They want to maintain competitiveness even if it prevents us from attaining greatness.


I don't know if that is the ownership or GM....I think the defense should be torn down to the studs not the offense and they could still be competitive.

It's absolutely ownership, that was made apparent when they made their coaching and GM hires last offseason. If anyone mentioned rebuild they moved on to the next guy.
Post #: 6085
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2023 9:09:30 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28612
Status: offline 		We are on the wrong side of the ledger. No assets. It's absurd to think we can get very high in the draft... and for what?

Pay no attention to the great Wilf behind the curtain, there won't be a competitive rebuild.

Let the pain begin (it should have started last year)!
Post #: 6086
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2023 9:13:29 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28612
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Too many QB needy teams... I don't think getting in the top 10 necessarily bags you the guy you want.
Do you really want to mortgage everything for the 3rd or 4th choice at qb in this draft... I don't think I would.

Houston 2
Indy 4
Seattle 5
Raiders 7
Atlanta 8
Carolina 9

(heck, even detroit at 6 could pick a qb if it's a guy they like)

Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?


THAT was your edit?

Post #: 6087
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2023 9:30:41 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28612
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

I didnt mean to imply before that we cpuld find a franchise qb with third rd picks. you use whatever means you have at your disposal.

But you dont ignore taking chances … just because you cant load up this year and get inside the first 5-10 picks.


How high could a Hunter, Cleveland and own first get you? I have my doubts that we could get higher than 8-10. Maybe throw in next years 2nd?



The IOL sucks. Cleveland plays IOL.

#23, a low-ceiling run of the mill G coming upon FA, and a quagmire? You won't sniff the top 15.


Throw in next years 2nd, this years first, and Hunter. What would it take to get to the top 10?



GMs at the top of the draft are salivating.
Post #: 6088
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2023 10:38:54 AM   
beo

 

Posts: 2394
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Too many QB needy teams... I don't think getting in the top 10 necessarily bags you the guy you want.
Do you really want to mortgage everything for the 3rd or 4th choice at qb in this draft... I don't think I would.

Houston 2
Indy 4
Seattle 5
Raiders 7
Atlanta 8
Carolina 9

(heck, even detroit at 6 could pick a qb if it's a guy they like)

Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?


THAT was your edit?




Yes, I added the one spot that has any chance of getting a specific QB a team might have identified as "the guy"...

Didn't realize I needed to have it reviewed by the forum hall monitor first.
Post #: 6089
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2023 11:08:06 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Too many QB needy teams... I don't think getting in the top 10 necessarily bags you the guy you want.
Do you really want to mortgage everything for the 3rd or 4th choice at qb in this draft... I don't think I would.

Houston 2
Indy 4
Seattle 5
Raiders 7
Atlanta 8
Carolina 9

(heck, even detroit at 6 could pick a qb if it's a guy they like)

Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?


THAT was your edit?




Yes, I added the one spot that has any chance of getting a specific QB a team might have identified as "the guy"...

Didn't realize I needed to have it reviewed by the forum hall monitor first.

Are there any other franchises besides us and the soccer team that the Wilfs could donate to help us get AZs pick?
Post #: 6090
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2023 11:36:56 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27431
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen
Vikings need to blow up this team. Trade everyone they can for picks. The window is closed.
Keep Jefferson, Hockenson, Darrisaw, O'Neal, and a few young defensive players. Get rid of everyone else who is either old or overpaid including Cousins. If they can deal him, deal him. I'd love Trey Lance here. If he's bad we finish 5-12 and draft a QB next year. When was the last time the Vikings were in rebuild mode???

I agree with this path, and I did last year. It's the best chance to become SB worthy. However, ownership has consistently demonstrated that they won't allow this. They want to maintain competitiveness even if it prevents us from attaining greatness.


I don't know if that is the ownership or GM....I think the defense should be torn down to the studs not the offense and they could still be competitive.

It's absolutely ownership, that was made apparent when they made their coaching and GM hires last offseason. If anyone mentioned rebuild they moved on to the next guy.


Actually the fans want a team that competes and spends up to the cap....Keeping older vets at expensive contracts is a lack of communication between the FO and Ownership. Keeping Barr was Zimmer/Spielman not ownership same as Smith, Kendricks, etc.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 6091
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2023 12:25:53 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28612
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Too many QB needy teams... I don't think getting in the top 10 necessarily bags you the guy you want.
Do you really want to mortgage everything for the 3rd or 4th choice at qb in this draft... I don't think I would.

Houston 2
Indy 4
Seattle 5
Raiders 7
Atlanta 8
Carolina 9

(heck, even detroit at 6 could pick a qb if it's a guy they like)

Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?


THAT was your edit?




Yes, I added the one spot that has any chance of getting a specific QB a team might have identified as "the guy"...

Didn't realize I needed to have it reviewed by the forum hall monitor first.


And somehow we will beat out teams right below #3 for that coveted pick? The hall monitor says no lunch for you and you get an F-.
Post #: 6092
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2023 12:30:14 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28612
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Too many QB needy teams... I don't think getting in the top 10 necessarily bags you the guy you want.
Do you really want to mortgage everything for the 3rd or 4th choice at qb in this draft... I don't think I would.

Houston 2
Indy 4
Seattle 5
Raiders 7
Atlanta 8
Carolina 9

(heck, even detroit at 6 could pick a qb if it's a guy they like)

Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?


THAT was your edit?




Yes, I added the one spot that has any chance of getting a specific QB a team might have identified as "the guy"...

Didn't realize I needed to have it reviewed by the forum hall monitor first.

Are there any other franchises besides us and the soccer team that the Wilfs could donate to help us get AZs pick?


First it was moving up to the 8-10 range. Now trade for #3?

Meanwhile we need to shed $30 million in cap just to function.

Astounding.
Post #: 6093
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2023 12:48:28 PM   
beo

 

Posts: 2394
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Too many QB needy teams... I don't think getting in the top 10 necessarily bags you the guy you want.
Do you really want to mortgage everything for the 3rd or 4th choice at qb in this draft... I don't think I would.

Houston 2
Indy 4
Seattle 5
Raiders 7
Atlanta 8
Carolina 9

(heck, even detroit at 6 could pick a qb if it's a guy they like)

Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?


THAT was your edit?




Yes, I added the one spot that has any chance of getting a specific QB a team might have identified as "the guy"...

Didn't realize I needed to have it reviewed by the forum hall monitor first.


And somehow we will beat out teams right below #3 for that coveted pick? The hall monitor says no lunch for you and you get an F-.


Nailed it!

Yes, the jist is that moving up for a coveted QB this year would be astoundingly expensive...
Post #: 6094
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2023 1:06:31 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28612
Status: offline 		Yes, astoundingly expensive is. Which is why your question "Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?" sounds so absurd.
Post #: 6095
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2023 2:11:13 PM   
beo

 

Posts: 2394
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Yes, astoundingly expensive is. Which is why your question "Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?" sounds so absurd.


The general discussion was trading up in the top 10 to get a qb.

I expanded on it... saying basically you need to get higher than just top ten.
Then narrowed it down to the pick I thought you'd have to target.
And then asked the question... do you do it?

During the offseason... when not much is happening... some people like debating hypotheticals.
ymmv

Off season is from dreamers... I can't doom and gloom 24x7.
Post #: 6096
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2023 2:38:37 PM  1 votes
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline 		In 2017, the Chiefs traded their #27, their 3rd rounder - 91st overall, and their 2018 first round pick to move to #10 and drafted Patrick Mahomes. KC did this even though they had a decent starting QB in Alex Smith who had thrown for 76 TDs and 28 INTs over the prior four seasons with KC. KC went 43-21 during those four years. In 2017, Alex Smith threw for 4042 yards, 26 TDs and 5 INTs. The team went 10-6 but lost in the first round of the playoffs. Alex Smith finished 1-4 in the playoffs for KC. KC had no problem trading Smith to Washington and going with Mahomes.

This is how you go from good to great. Yes for every Mahomes at #10 you'll get a few Blaine Gabberts and Matt Leinerts. But you have to try and you have to be willing to part ways with an Alex Smith. Sure we might not land a Mahomes but we are positively guaranteed to have our Alex Smith otherwise.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 6097
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2023 2:38:48 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28612
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Yes, astoundingly expensive is. Which is why your question "Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?" sounds so absurd.


The general discussion was trading up in the top 10 to get a qb.

I expanded on it... saying basically you need to get higher than just top ten.
Then narrowed it down to the pick I thought you'd have to target.
And then asked the question... do you do it?

During the offseason... when not much is happening... some people like debating hypotheticals.
ymmv

Off season is from dreamers... I can't doom and gloom 24x7.


OK, dream on!
Post #: 6098
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2023 3:54:29 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40689
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online 		I fully expect Cousins to be here for at least the next 2 years. He likes it here. Started a family here. Wants to retire a Viking. He's respected by the team and probably a good portion of coaches and the Wilfs.

If we find a guy at some point that is to supplant Cousins I wouldn't be surprised to see Kirk simply retire.
Post #: 6099
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2023 3:58:13 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		Kirk Cousins and the Vikings: Is there a contract extension that works for both?

https://www.startribune.com/kirk-cousins-minnesota-vikings-contract-extension-randball/600253834/

< Message edited by Ricky J -- 2/23/2023 4:11:17 PM >
Post #: 6100
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