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RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2023 9:15:48 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Reducing his salary and tying it to incentives has appeared the more attractive choice with keeping him for me for the last while.


Ah, I see. But more attractive based on what you want or what you think they will do?

Changing a post at least twice from the original blast involves a little hypocrisy doesn't it, William?

ha ha - just having fun, of course
Post #: 6126
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2023 10:02:17 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28612
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Reducing his salary and tying it to incentives has appeared the more attractive choice with keeping him for me for the last while.


Ah, I see. But more attractive based on what you want or what you think they will do?

Changing a post at least twice from the original blast involves a little hypocrisy doesn't it, William?

ha ha - just having fun, of course


Nope, changed it once. Glad to know you are tracking my edits, and since I edit a LOT you should redouble your efforts to get a more accurate take. Sometimes I edit just for a misplaced comma (obviously, grammar is not a big deal for you)!

What I do not do is routinely post FU's and the like, only to delete them in short order. But I guess some people like that passive-aggressive feel-good mechanism. Whatever works!

Ha ha, yes so much fun.
Post #: 6127
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2023 12:32:31 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
My curandera read our GM's mind by throwing down some chicken bones (didn't have any Ferragamo cufflinks) ... and I quote:

Short-term thought processes

Hicks, Ham gone.

Thielen, Harry gone before March 15 ... right thing to do; post-June savings not worth the clubhouse drama

Kendricks, Cook traded: Kendricks for a 5th, Cook + our 5th for a 3rd

No extension for Cousins or Tomlinson

No extension for Hockensen yet (will make a decision Oct Nov)

Decisions on Hunter (because of dead money), Zad pushed to 2024

None of our own free agents re-signed.

New deal for Shelley

Agreements with a FA CB, back-up QB before March 15

Second wave C.

Loro Piana Jeans extra skinny.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 2/25/2023 1:03:15 PM >
Post #: 6128
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2023 1:04:32 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12177
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

My curandera read our GM's mind by throwing down some chicken bones (didn't have any Ferragamo cufflinks) ... and I quote:

Short-term thought processes

Hicks, Ham gone.

Thielen, Harry gone before March 15 ... right thing to do; post-June savings not worth the clubhouse drama

Kendricks, Cook traded: Kendricks for a 5th, Cook + our 5th for a 3rd

No extension for Cousins or Tomlinson

No extension for Hockensen yet (will make a decision Oct Nov)

Decisions on Hunter (because of dead money), Zad pushed to 2024

None of our own free agents re-signed.

New deal for Shelley

Agreements with a FA CB, back-up QB before March 15

Second wave C.

Very reasonable.

I also think we can get something for Cook and Kendricks. They have something left in the tank and their base salaries aren't crazy high.
Post #: 6129
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2023 1:25:44 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

My curandera read our GM's mind by throwing down some chicken bones (didn't have any Ferragamo cufflinks) ... and I quote:

Short-term thought processes

Hicks, Ham gone.

Thielen, Harry gone before March 15 ... right thing to do; post-June savings not worth the clubhouse drama

Kendricks, Cook traded: Kendricks for a 5th, Cook + our 5th for a 3rd

No extension for Cousins or Tomlinson

No extension for Hockensen yet (will make a decision Oct Nov)

Decisions on Hunter (because of dead money), Zad pushed to 2024

None of our own free agents re-signed.

New deal for Shelley

Agreements with a FA CB, back-up QB before March 15

Second wave C.

Very reasonable.

I also think we can get something for Cook and Kendricks. They have something left in the tank and their base salaries aren't crazy high.

Doubt anyone will trade for Kendricks. Due like 11ml.

There is a small (very small) chance any GM would trade for Cook (if so they should be mentally evaluated). He was the least efficient RB in the league last season.

No one is trading anything for our grizzled washed up vets on absurd contracts. Time to rip the band aid off and give young players the PT.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 6130
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2023 1:29:49 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

My curandera read our GM's mind by throwing down some chicken bones (didn't have any Ferragamo cufflinks) ... and I quote:

Short-term thought processes

Hicks, Ham gone.

Thielen, Harry gone before March 15 ... right thing to do; post-June savings not worth the clubhouse drama

Kendricks, Cook traded: Kendricks for a 5th, Cook + our 5th for a 3rd

No extension for Cousins or Tomlinson

No extension for Hockensen yet (will make a decision Oct Nov)

Decisions on Hunter (because of dead money), Zad pushed to 2024

None of our own free agents re-signed.

New deal for Shelley

Agreements with a FA CB, back-up QB before March 15

Second wave C.

Very reasonable.

I also think we can get something for Cook and Kendricks. They have something left in the tank and their base salaries aren't crazy high.

Doubt anyone will trade for Kendricks. Due like 11ml.

There is a small (very small) chance any GM would trade for Cook (if so they should be mentally evaluated). He was the least efficient RB in the league last season.

No one is trading anything for our grizzled washed up vets on absurd contracts. Time to rip the band aid off and give young players the PT.

Its true, I have no idea how to gauge trade value for our own players ... it either seems too high or too low.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 2/25/2023 1:35:33 PM >
Post #: 6131
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2023 1:31:13 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online
Food for thought

If Erin retires Cousins will be the oldest starting qb in the league.

But let's ext him and reassemble the geriatric band and run it back one more time.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 6132
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2023 1:42:24 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

My curandera read our GM's mind by throwing down some chicken bones (didn't have any Ferragamo cufflinks) ... and I quote:

Short-term thought processes

Hicks, Ham gone.

Thielen, Harry gone before March 15 ... right thing to do; post-June savings not worth the clubhouse drama

Kendricks, Cook traded: Kendricks for a 5th, Cook + our 5th for a 3rd

No extension for Cousins or Tomlinson

No extension for Hockensen yet (will make a decision Oct Nov)

Decisions on Hunter (because of dead money), Zad pushed to 2024

None of our own free agents re-signed.

New deal for Shelley

Agreements with a FA CB, back-up QB before March 15

Second wave C.

Very reasonable.

I also think we can get something for Cook and Kendricks. They have something left in the tank and their base salaries aren't crazy high.

I guess it depends on if people think they are on the outer edge of their prime or completely out. Probably the latter.

For us its as much about cap space as getting a fair return ... if there was even one to be had.
Post #: 6133
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2023 1:47:37 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Food for thought

If Erin retires Cousins will be the oldest starting qb in the league.

But let's ext him and reassemble the geriatric band and run it back one more time.

The burn it all down to the ground, off with their heads crap is simply not realistic.

Not just because it would never happen but also because it would not guarantee anything more than phasing in and out of a roster for 2-3 years.
Post #: 6134
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2023 1:58:39 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online
Paul Hodowanic - SKOL Searching: Keeping the status quo is the Vikings' riskiest path forward

An NFL general manager’s first goal every year is not to win the Super Bowl. It’s to keep their job.

Job preservation drives an alarming amount of everyday decisions in front offices – and it’s one reason why many teams refuse to bottom out. Put yourself in that decision-maker's shoes and it makes sense. If the roster is bad enough to warrant a rebuild, why should the general manager that oversaw its demise get another chance to build it from scratch?

That’s not the situation Kwesi Adofo-Mensah finds himself in. Nearly all of the reasons why the Minnesota Vikings might consider a rebuild are from sins committed by the previous regime. Kirk Cousins’ contract was designed explicitly to force Minnesota into frequent restructures that maximize his immediate value and hamstring the team long-term. The Vikings’ defense ranked third in the NFL in snap-weighted age rankings last season as veterans were almost always extended and young players were denied development opportunities. And the rookies that were given a chance hardly lived up to their expectations.

That’s what led to Adofo-Mensah’s hiring – and it’s unknown whether he was given the latitude to reverse many of those decisions or was given the directive to keep pushing forward. Nearly every veteran was retained, Za’Darius Smith was added and the Vikings pushed forward into the front lines with the same strategy that got the last regime booted from the job.

If that was the case, a 13-win season Adofo-Mensah should buy him some leeway and flexibility to manipulate the roster as he sees fit. But will he do it?

Often these decisions come down to risk, specifically which option is more risk-averse. Rebuilding is often considered the riskier option, sacrificing the known quantities on the current team and banking on “what could be in the future.”

Minnesota’s situation is the opposite. The bigger risk isn’t blowing it up, it’s bringing the band back together and expecting different, better results. Here’s why.

Kwesi’s window

Much was made about the length of Adofo-Mensah’s contract when he was hired. These details don’t often get out, but it was reported the Vikings signed him to just a four-year deal, which is shorter than most general manager contracts.

That meant Adofo-Mensah’s clock to prove himself started immediately. There was no patience for trial and error or first-time general manager mistakes. The contract signaled ownership wanted to see immediate results. In the event Minnesota pushes for contention again in 2024, that only ratchets up the pressure. If the Vikings were to fall short in 2024, which seems inevitable given its roster, would Adofo-Mensah want to rebuild then with just two seasons left on his contract?

That would give him nearly no time to roll out his plans for a rebuild and further complicate the dynamic. Adofo-Mensah would be inclined to contend once more and find himself back in the cycle that cost Rick Spielman his job.

If there’s ever going to be a time to rebuild, Adofo-Mensah is incentivized to do it now while he has goodwill built up and a full three years to prove it's the right direction. Waiting longer only risks a perpetual state of mediocrity or a front office that becomes too desperate and makes irrational decisions.

Cousins’ contract and potential cliff

The Vikings could conceivably keep Cousins on the final year of his deal and play out the season for one last chance of contention. Then if it doesn’t pan out, move on. That would allow Minnesota to lay the groundwork of a rebuild and fully lean into it after next season. However, that ignores the serious cap strain that would put the team in the immediacy and the interpersonal dynamics between Cousins and the front office.

Cousins is incentivized to look for a longer-term deal and use his leverage if he doesn’t get one.

That leaves extending Cousins as the only real option to contending in 2023. If Minnesota does that it cements that they will not be rebuilding anytime soon. Cousins has proven his teams have a floor of winning, never finishing worse than 7-9 in a season as a starter.

Extending him to a long-term deal also opens up plenty of risk for an eventual performance dip to significantly hurt the team. As the Broncos are finding out with Russell Wilson and teams that have employed both Carson Wentz and Matt Ryan, paying a declining quarterback top dollar is amongst one of the most crippling things you can do to a franchise.

Cousins has not shown many warning signs of that potential drop-off, but quarterbacks rarely do give consistent signs. Often it just happens. Assuming Aaron Rodgers does return next season, Cousins will be the second-oldest starting quarterback in the league. Betting against history has worked when it's the likes of Rodgers and Tom Brady. Betting Cousins can keep the same level of consistency into his late 30s and early 40s is a whole different proposition.

Moving on this offseason, or setting the groundwork for that eventuality a year from now avoids all those possibilities and it doesn’t come at a major performance risk. The Vikings lose the certainty they won’t be the laughingstock of the NFL, but they also cap their ceiling. Minnesota has won one playoff game since Cousins arrived, what evidence points to that changing significantly?

Further stunting the youth

Among the major criticisms toward the end of Mike Zimmer and Rick Spielman’s tenure was the ignoring of young players. Acquiring short-term stopgap veterans became more of a priority than allowing recent draft picks an opportunity to learn and grow.

This has reared its head most notably on defense. When was the last successful defensive draft pick?

Here are the names of the last seven drafts:

Lewis Cine, Andrew Booth, Brian Asamoah, Akayleb Evans, Esezi Otomewo, Chazz Surratt. Patrick Jones II, Camryn Bynum, Janarius Robinson, Jaylen Twyman, Jeff Gladney, Cameron Dantzler, D.J. Wonnum, James Lynch, Troy Dye, Harrison Hand, Josh Metellus, Kenny Willekes, Brian Cole, Cameron Smith, Armon Watts, Marcus Epps, Kris Boyd, Mike Hughes, Jayln Holmes, Ade Aruna, Devante Downs, Jaleel Johnson, Ben Gedeon, Ifeadi Odenigbo, Elijah Lee, Jack Tocho, Mackensie Alexander, Kentrell Brothers, Stephen Weatherly, Jayron Kearse.

Only Dantzler and Bynum started a majority of games for Minnesota last year. Some of that is bad drafting. Hughes turned out to be a first-round failure. As did middle-round picks Holmes, Johnson and Surratt.

However, a majority of these players failed to see any meaningful snaps. Kearse was let go and found success elsewhere. As did Hughes and Epps. Minnesota has an intriguing batch of second-year players. Asamoah showed signs as a rookie, as did Evans. Cine and Booth weren’t healthy enough to form an opinion.

If Minnesota continues to think short-term, another year of defensive draft picks will likely take a back seat to veterans that are retained and signed in free agency.

No team can win the Super Bowl without homegrown success stories. The Chiefs and Eagles exemplified that. However, even as both teams pushed their chips in to contend, they gave space for youth to develop. That has not happened in Minnesota. Until it does, success will be limited.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 6135
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2023 3:47:22 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Paul Hodowanic - SKOL Searching: Keeping the status quo is the Vikings' riskiest path forward

An NFL general manager’s first goal every year is not to win the Super Bowl. It’s to keep their job.


I think most in here want bigger than smaller changes. The bigger the better.

But I am not convinced Kwesi is going to radically change from the measured / moderate approach he took last offseason.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 2/25/2023 3:48:34 PM >
Post #: 6136
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2023 4:55:05 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

My curandera read our GM's mind by throwing down some chicken bones (didn't have any Ferragamo cufflinks) ... and I quote:

Short-term thought processes

Hicks, Ham gone.

Thielen, Harry gone before March 15 ... right thing to do; post-June savings not worth the clubhouse drama

Kendricks, Cook traded: Kendricks for a 5th, Cook + our 5th for a 3rd

No extension for Cousins or Tomlinson

No extension for Hockensen yet (will make a decision Oct Nov)

Decisions on Hunter (because of dead money), Zad pushed to 2024

None of our own free agents re-signed.

New deal for Shelley

Agreements with a FA CB, back-up QB before March 15

Second wave C.

Very reasonable.

I also think we can get something for Cook and Kendricks. They have something left in the tank and their base salaries aren't crazy high.

I guess it depends on if people think they are on the outer edge of their prime or completely out. Probably the latter.

For us its as much about cap space as getting a fair return ... if there was even one to be had.


The other GMs know we're in that situation and will wait for us to release them.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 6137
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2023 7:07:24 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9563
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Paul Hodowanic - SKOL Searching: Keeping the status quo is the Vikings' riskiest path forward

An NFL general manager’s first goal every year is not to win the Super Bowl. It’s to keep their job.

Job preservation drives an alarming amount of everyday decisions in front offices – and it’s one reason why many teams refuse to bottom out. Put yourself in that decision-maker's shoes and it makes sense. If the roster is bad enough to warrant a rebuild, why should the general manager that oversaw its demise get another chance to build it from scratch?

That’s not the situation Kwesi Adofo-Mensah finds himself in. Nearly all of the reasons why the Minnesota Vikings might consider a rebuild are from sins committed by the previous regime. Kirk Cousins’ contract was designed explicitly to force Minnesota into frequent restructures that maximize his immediate value and hamstring the team long-term. The Vikings’ defense ranked third in the NFL in snap-weighted age rankings last season as veterans were almost always extended and young players were denied development opportunities. And the rookies that were given a chance hardly lived up to their expectations.

That’s what led to Adofo-Mensah’s hiring – and it’s unknown whether he was given the latitude to reverse many of those decisions or was given the directive to keep pushing forward. Nearly every veteran was retained, Za’Darius Smith was added and the Vikings pushed forward into the front lines with the same strategy that got the last regime booted from the job.

If that was the case, a 13-win season Adofo-Mensah should buy him some leeway and flexibility to manipulate the roster as he sees fit. But will he do it?

Often these decisions come down to risk, specifically which option is more risk-averse. Rebuilding is often considered the riskier option, sacrificing the known quantities on the current team and banking on “what could be in the future.”

Minnesota’s situation is the opposite. The bigger risk isn’t blowing it up, it’s bringing the band back together and expecting different, better results. Here’s why.

Kwesi’s window

Much was made about the length of Adofo-Mensah’s contract when he was hired. These details don’t often get out, but it was reported the Vikings signed him to just a four-year deal, which is shorter than most general manager contracts.

That meant Adofo-Mensah’s clock to prove himself started immediately. There was no patience for trial and error or first-time general manager mistakes. The contract signaled ownership wanted to see immediate results. In the event Minnesota pushes for contention again in 2024, that only ratchets up the pressure. If the Vikings were to fall short in 2024, which seems inevitable given its roster, would Adofo-Mensah want to rebuild then with just two seasons left on his contract?

That would give him nearly no time to roll out his plans for a rebuild and further complicate the dynamic. Adofo-Mensah would be inclined to contend once more and find himself back in the cycle that cost Rick Spielman his job.

If there’s ever going to be a time to rebuild, Adofo-Mensah is incentivized to do it now while he has goodwill built up and a full three years to prove it's the right direction. Waiting longer only risks a perpetual state of mediocrity or a front office that becomes too desperate and makes irrational decisions.

Cousins’ contract and potential cliff

The Vikings could conceivably keep Cousins on the final year of his deal and play out the season for one last chance of contention. Then if it doesn’t pan out, move on. That would allow Minnesota to lay the groundwork of a rebuild and fully lean into it after next season. However, that ignores the serious cap strain that would put the team in the immediacy and the interpersonal dynamics between Cousins and the front office.

Cousins is incentivized to look for a longer-term deal and use his leverage if he doesn’t get one.

That leaves extending Cousins as the only real option to contending in 2023. If Minnesota does that it cements that they will not be rebuilding anytime soon. Cousins has proven his teams have a floor of winning, never finishing worse than 7-9 in a season as a starter.

Extending him to a long-term deal also opens up plenty of risk for an eventual performance dip to significantly hurt the team. As the Broncos are finding out with Russell Wilson and teams that have employed both Carson Wentz and Matt Ryan, paying a declining quarterback top dollar is amongst one of the most crippling things you can do to a franchise.

Cousins has not shown many warning signs of that potential drop-off, but quarterbacks rarely do give consistent signs. Often it just happens. Assuming Aaron Rodgers does return next season, Cousins will be the second-oldest starting quarterback in the league. Betting against history has worked when it's the likes of Rodgers and Tom Brady. Betting Cousins can keep the same level of consistency into his late 30s and early 40s is a whole different proposition.

Moving on this offseason, or setting the groundwork for that eventuality a year from now avoids all those possibilities and it doesn’t come at a major performance risk. The Vikings lose the certainty they won’t be the laughingstock of the NFL, but they also cap their ceiling. Minnesota has won one playoff game since Cousins arrived, what evidence points to that changing significantly?

Further stunting the youth

Among the major criticisms toward the end of Mike Zimmer and Rick Spielman’s tenure was the ignoring of young players. Acquiring short-term stopgap veterans became more of a priority than allowing recent draft picks an opportunity to learn and grow.

This has reared its head most notably on defense. When was the last successful defensive draft pick?

Here are the names of the last seven drafts:

Lewis Cine, Andrew Booth, Brian Asamoah, Akayleb Evans, Esezi Otomewo, Chazz Surratt. Patrick Jones II, Camryn Bynum, Janarius Robinson, Jaylen Twyman, Jeff Gladney, Cameron Dantzler, D.J. Wonnum, James Lynch, Troy Dye, Harrison Hand, Josh Metellus, Kenny Willekes, Brian Cole, Cameron Smith, Armon Watts, Marcus Epps, Kris Boyd, Mike Hughes, Jayln Holmes, Ade Aruna, Devante Downs, Jaleel Johnson, Ben Gedeon, Ifeadi Odenigbo, Elijah Lee, Jack Tocho, Mackensie Alexander, Kentrell Brothers, Stephen Weatherly, Jayron Kearse.

Only Dantzler and Bynum started a majority of games for Minnesota last year. Some of that is bad drafting. Hughes turned out to be a first-round failure. As did middle-round picks Holmes, Johnson and Surratt.

However, a majority of these players failed to see any meaningful snaps. Kearse was let go and found success elsewhere. As did Hughes and Epps. Minnesota has an intriguing batch of second-year players. Asamoah showed signs as a rookie, as did Evans. Cine and Booth weren’t healthy enough to form an opinion.

If Minnesota continues to think short-term, another year of defensive draft picks will likely take a back seat to veterans that are retained and signed in free agency.

No team can win the Super Bowl without homegrown success stories. The Chiefs and Eagles exemplified that. However, even as both teams pushed their chips in to contend, they gave space for youth to develop. That has not happened in Minnesota. Until it does, success will be limited.



Jayron kearse and Marcus Epps….

Both starters on two of the best defenses in the nfl…..

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 6138
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2023 7:12:43 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9563
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online
.
.
Can a team cut a player, with post June 6th designation, and then hire them back at a lower cap?….

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 6139
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2023 8:27:19 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

I guess it depends on if people think they are on the outer edge of their prime or completely out. Probably the latter.

For us its as much about cap space as getting a fair return ... if there was even one to be had.


The other GMs know we're in that situation and will wait for us to release them.

Not sure either will be out right released, or renegotiated or what.
Post #: 6140
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/26/2023 8:49:45 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27431
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

My curandera read our GM's mind by throwing down some chicken bones (didn't have any Ferragamo cufflinks) ... and I quote:

Short-term thought processes

Hicks, Ham gone.

Thielen, Harry gone before March 15 ... right thing to do; post-June savings not worth the clubhouse drama

Kendricks, Cook traded: Kendricks for a 5th, Cook + our 5th for a 3rd

No extension for Cousins or Tomlinson

No extension for Hockensen yet (will make a decision Oct Nov)

Decisions on Hunter (because of dead money), Zad pushed to 2024

None of our own free agents re-signed.

New deal for Shelley

Agreements with a FA CB, back-up QB before March 15

Second wave C.

Very reasonable.

I also think we can get something for Cook and Kendricks. They have something left in the tank and their base salaries aren't crazy high.

Shoulder surgery may make Cook tough to trade.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 6141
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/26/2023 9:33:25 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
Kirk Cousins is a Hall of Famer when it comes to navigating the QB contract field ...

Pelissero on NFL network talking about Cousins going forward and other things - length of vid 3:10

https://www.vikings.com/video/pelissero-with-the-latest-on-kirk-cousins-future-in-minnesota-team-s-outlook-hea
Post #: 6142
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/26/2023 9:51:56 AM   
Daniel Lee Young

 

Posts: 14012
Status: offline
Unfortunately, Cook will not be traded..

His surgery will land him on IR or PUP,

His contract is fully guaranteed, but he can be traded..

It would take a restructured contract to find any interest at all in someone giving a draft pick in trade for his restructured contract.

His current contract guarantees a salary of at least 2 million an March 17th

HS dead cap for a cut is 6.2 mill,

I say we should ear that number and cut him with a 2 mill ( guaranteed anyway) , injury settlement.

His cap # is over 14 million for 2023..

Move on.

Same with Thielen, Harrison Smith,

_____________________________

**** you all.
Post #: 6143
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/26/2023 11:10:21 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

My curandera read our GM's mind by throwing down some chicken bones (didn't have any Ferragamo cufflinks) ... and I quote:

Short-term thought processes

Hicks, Ham gone.

Thielen, Harry gone before March 15 ... right thing to do; post-June savings not worth the clubhouse drama

Kendricks, Cook traded: Kendricks for a 5th, Cook + our 5th for a 3rd

No extension for Cousins or Tomlinson

No extension for Hockensen yet (will make a decision Oct Nov)

Decisions on Hunter (because of dead money), Zad pushed to 2024

None of our own free agents re-signed.

New deal for Shelley

Agreements with a FA CB, back-up QB before March 15

Second wave C.

Very reasonable.

I also think we can get something for Cook and Kendricks. They have something left in the tank and their base salaries aren't crazy high.

Shoulder surgery may make Cook tough to trade.

I forgot about that. For sure.
Post #: 6144
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/26/2023 11:49:42 AM   
joejitsu

 

Posts: 15424
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline
This offseason (and maybe next years, as well) is going to be a nightmare for the team and all of us loyal fanatics. It’s one big poop sangwich, and we’re all going to have to take a bite. I don’t see any way out of it, to be honest.
Post #: 6145
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/26/2023 12:33:57 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

This offseason (and maybe next years, as well) is going to be a nightmare for the team and all of us loyal fanatics. It’s one big poop sangwich, and we’re all going to have to take a bite. I don’t see any way out of it, to be honest.

And that's okay IF you feel they are compressing it down into one hard-to-swallow binge.

Putting off decisions and creating a full-size multi-season extra poop on the poop sandwich ... no bueno!
Post #: 6146
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/26/2023 1:04:43 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online
Full details on the #Vikings’ Harrison Smith deal:
— 4 years, $64M extension.
— Overall, 5 years, $74.83M
— Smith gets $22.5M in the next 8 month, highest in NFL history for a safety
— For 2022 to 2024, the new money average is $15.3M.
— The extension includes $26.38M guaranteed.
1:31 PM · Aug 29, 2021

Spielman doled this contract to a 32 year old

Can we call Spielman and fire him again

Edit: Kwesi turned 6ml into a signing bonus last season so whatever his dead cap hit was add 6ml to.

< Message edited by Bill Jandro -- 2/26/2023 1:36:10 PM >


_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 6147
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/26/2023 1:59:34 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12177
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

My curandera read our GM's mind by throwing down some chicken bones (didn't have any Ferragamo cufflinks) ... and I quote:

Short-term thought processes

Hicks, Ham gone.

Thielen, Harry gone before March 15 ... right thing to do; post-June savings not worth the clubhouse drama

Kendricks, Cook traded: Kendricks for a 5th, Cook + our 5th for a 3rd

No extension for Cousins or Tomlinson

No extension for Hockensen yet (will make a decision Oct Nov)

Decisions on Hunter (because of dead money), Zad pushed to 2024

None of our own free agents re-signed.

New deal for Shelley

Agreements with a FA CB, back-up QB before March 15

Second wave C.

Very reasonable.

I also think we can get something for Cook and Kendricks. They have something left in the tank and their base salaries aren't crazy high.

I guess it depends on if people think they are on the outer edge of their prime or completely out. Probably the latter.

For us its as much about cap space as getting a fair return ... if there was even one to be had.


The other GMs know we're in that situation and will wait for us to release them.

We would have to hope that one team would part with a late rounder so they don't have to outbid anyone else for Cook, Kendricks(if we released them).
Post #: 6148
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/26/2023 4:10:25 PM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Full details on the #Vikings’ Harrison Smith deal:
— 4 years, $64M extension.
— Overall, 5 years, $74.83M
— Smith gets $22.5M in the next 8 month, highest in NFL history for a safety
— For 2022 to 2024, the new money average is $15.3M.
— The extension includes $26.38M guaranteed.
1:31 PM · Aug 29, 2021

Spielman doled this contract to a 32 year old

Can we call Spielman and fire him again

Edit: Kwesi turned 6ml into a signing bonus last season so whatever his dead cap hit was add 6ml to.

Note to the Wilfs. Short-termism is an obvious downside to a GM on tenuous footing. They try to maximize their own future prospects at the expense of the team's long-term success.
Post #: 6149
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/26/2023 8:34:05 PM   
stfrank

 

Posts: 11824
Joined: 7/22/2007
From: Twin Cities
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Full details on the #Vikings’ Harrison Smith deal:
— 4 years, $64M extension.
— Overall, 5 years, $74.83M
— Smith gets $22.5M in the next 8 month, highest in NFL history for a safety
— For 2022 to 2024, the new money average is $15.3M.
— The extension includes $26.38M guaranteed.
1:31 PM · Aug 29, 2021

Spielman doled this contract to a 32 year old

Can we call Spielman and fire him again

Edit: Kwesi turned 6ml into a signing bonus last season so whatever his dead cap hit was add 6ml to.

Note to the Wilfs. Short-termism is an obvious downside to a GM on tenuous footing. They try to maximize their own future prospects at the expense of the team's long-term success.

It's past time to bottom out, clean up the cap and start a rebuild. But, I fear instead they will re-up Cousins and push the cap problem out farther and up higher.
Post #: 6150
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