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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2023 7:32:48 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 20147
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

You're really struggling with the jj thing, huh?

1. If we're going to win the SB would the odds be any better if he'd of been back a game or two by now or after the Bears? Assuming he didnt/doesnt injury the hammy id say there's not much difference.

2. If he waits another week one would assume the chances of re-injury are significantly less than if he played. If he played he'd possibly be be out for the season by now

The way i see it, we're sitting pretty good right now - get in and go!

Put me in the camp that doesn't wanna pay him 35 a year. It's more to do with building a team around a wr. It just doesn't feel right to me.

Post #: 5226

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2023 7:33:31 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 20147
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Maybe someday the NFL will get it right. But a repeat offender just coming off suspension should have been on the refs radar. how he got away with that in real time is just a complete fail.

That hit seemed illegal even years ago.

Post #: 5227

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2023 9:39:16 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18360
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

You're really struggling with the jj thing, huh?

1. If we're going to win the SB would the odds be any better if he'd of been back a game or two by now or after the Bears? Assuming he didnt/doesnt injury the hammy id say there's not much difference.

2. If he waits another week one would assume the chances of re-injury are significantly less than if he played. If he played he'd possibly be be out for the season by now

The way i see it, we're sitting pretty good right now - get in and go!

Put me in the camp that doesn't wanna pay him 35 a year. It's more to do with building a team around a wr. It just doesn't feel right to me.

I don't have a problem with anyone who feels like that ... but I want him to help produce some important wins for us yet this year. Whatever happens after that is a long ways a way from the Now for me

Post #: 5228

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2023 10:04:26 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 20147
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

You're really struggling with the jj thing, huh?

1. If we're going to win the SB would the odds be any better if he'd of been back a game or two by now or after the Bears? Assuming he didnt/doesnt injury the hammy id say there's not much difference.

2. If he waits another week one would assume the chances of re-injury are significantly less than if he played. If he played he'd possibly be be out for the season by now

The way i see it, we're sitting pretty good right now - get in and go!

Put me in the camp that doesn't wanna pay him 35 a year. It's more to do with building a team around a wr. It just doesn't feel right to me.

I don't have a problem with anyone who feels like that ... but I want him to help produce some important wins for us yet this year. Whatever happens after that is a long ways a way from the Now for me

Good points.

Post #: 5229

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/24/2023 9:22:05 AM 4 votes

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29139
Status: offline

Funny to read the spectrum of JJ posts over time.

- We're 5-0 without you, maybe just take your sweet time coming back.
- After the one loss: thanks for the loss JJ.

With the bye after this week, it seems stupid to bring JJ back for the Bears. If we can't beat Chicago at home w/o him, just pack it in for the season.

Post #: 5230

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/24/2023 9:34:29 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29139
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

You're really struggling with the jj thing, huh?

1. If we're going to win the SB would the odds be any better if he'd of been back a game or two by now or after the Bears? Assuming he didnt/doesnt injury the hammy id say there's not much difference.

2. If he waits another week one would assume the chances of re-injury are significantly less than if he played. If he played he'd possibly be be out for the season by now

The way i see it, we're sitting pretty good right now - get in and go!

Put me in the camp that doesn't wanna pay him 35 a year. It's more to do with building a team around a wr. It just doesn't feel right to me.

Re the cap cost, same. For $30-35 million a year, I don't think he moves the needle enough. That said, I wouldn't trade him unless it was for a couple of proven players and picks.

Post #: 5231

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/24/2023 9:58:38 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18360
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

If we can't beat Chicago at home w/o him, just pack it in for the season.

Buzz kill. That would do in even the most optimistic fans.

edit: So what's up with Detroit? If the season ended today we'd be playing them first in the playoffs

< Message edited by Ricky J -- 11/24/2023 10:00:39 AM >

Post #: 5232

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/24/2023 11:06:28 AM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 14339
Status: offline

They seem to have the same issues the vikes have..

Turnovers and lapse in defense letting teams make big plays that extend drives and wear out the defense.

Also Goff is not all that and pretty careless with the ball, both running and throwing..

What I watched on thanksgiving day was a case study in how to beat yourself by playing like an amateur ..

_____________________________

**** you all.

Post #: 5233

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/24/2023 12:21:48 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18360
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

They seem to have the same issues the vikes have..

Turnovers and lapse in defense letting teams make big plays that extend drives and wear out the defense.

Also Goff is not all that and pretty careless with the ball, both running and throwing..

What I watched on thanksgiving day was a case study in how to beat yourself by playing like an amateur ..

That and how Chicago lost to Det.

Post #: 5234

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/24/2023 12:28:17 PM

odin

Posts: 2315
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline

Alexander Mattison's 11 runs inside the 10-yard line have netted 0 touchdowns and -5 yards.
— Paul Charchian (@PaulCharchian) November 22, 2023

Post #: 5235

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/24/2023 1:14:26 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 14339
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: odin

Alexander Mattison's 11 runs inside the 10-yard line have netted 0 touchdowns and -5 yards.
— Paul Charchian (@PaulCharchian) November 22, 2023

Our running game with Mattison has sucked..

But dumping cook was a good idea.. he hasn’t done squat this season .

Akers was better, chandler has better vision and is faster, just too easy to arm tackle.

Mattison is blind but runs tough … his problem is all the zero and - yard runs,and his ball security..

Plus his hands on passing plays .. god how many times has he just taken his eyes off a ball or just flat dropped one…

My eyes say way too much..

Personally, I’d cut him after this season..

Running backs on rookie contracts picked up their round or later are a far better use of money.. running and holding onto the ball isn’t rocket science, recognizing and blitz pickup is probably the most challenging part, next to catching out of the backfield, that an NFL player has to learn at a faster rate, compared to college football.

The Level of Tallent you face in the NFL is better than most top college teams, every week.

It’s a quantum leap, being the starter on an NFL franchise and I don’t think Mattison has that in him.

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 11/24/2023 1:17:40 PM >

_____________________________

**** you all.

Post #: 5236

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/24/2023 1:43:25 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29139
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: odin

Alexander Mattison's 11 runs inside the 10-yard line have netted 0 touchdowns and -5 yards.
— Paul Charchian (@PaulCharchian) November 22, 2023

Our running game with Mattison has sucked..

But dumping cook was a good idea.. he hasn’t done squat this season .

Akers was better, chandler has better vision and is faster, just too easy to arm tackle.

Mattison is blind but runs tough … his problem is all the zero and - yard runs,and his ball security..

Plus his hands on passing plays .. god how many times has he just taken his eyes off a ball or just flat dropped one…

My eyes say way too much..

Personally, I’d cut him after this season..

Running backs on rookie contracts picked up their round or later are a far better use of money.. running and holding onto the ball isn’t rocket science, recognizing and blitz pickup is probably the most challenging part, next to catching out of the backfield, that an NFL player has to learn at a faster rate, compared to college football.

The Level of Tallent you face in the NFL is better than most top college teams, every week.

It’s a quantum leap, being the starter on an NFL franchise and I don’t think Mattison has that in him.

Cut him and save $600K. Or keep him in his traditional backup role for such a low cost. Ideally have a couple of RBs that can run, catch, and block but you're lucky to have just one of those types.

He's got two fumbles (both lost) this year.

Post #: 5237

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/24/2023 2:19:09 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 14339
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: odin

Alexander Mattison's 11 runs inside the 10-yard line have netted 0 touchdowns and -5 yards.
— Paul Charchian (@PaulCharchian) November 22, 2023

Our running game with Mattison has sucked..

But dumping cook was a good idea.. he hasn’t done squat this season .

Akers was better, chandler has better vision and is faster, just too easy to arm tackle.

Mattison is blind but runs tough … his problem is all the zero and - yard runs,and his ball security..

Plus his hands on passing plays .. god how many times has he just taken his eyes off a ball or just flat dropped one…

My eyes say way too much..

Personally, I’d cut him after this season..

Running backs on rookie contracts picked up their round or later are a far better use of money.. running and holding onto the ball isn’t rocket science, recognizing and blitz pickup is probably the most challenging part, next to catching out of the backfield, that an NFL player has to learn at a faster rate, compared to college football.

The Level of Tallent you face in the NFL is better than most top college teams, every week.

It’s a quantum leap, being the starter on an NFL franchise and I don’t think Mattison has that in him.

Cut him and save $600K. Or keep him in his traditional backup role for such a low cost. Ideally have a couple of RBs that can run, catch, and block but you're lucky to have just one of those types.

He's got two fumbles (both lost) this year.

He’s gonna be looking to get paid..

He’s not worth it..

Adequate running backs are found everywhere in the draft..

Better ones than Mattison are not that hard to find..

JMO..

_____________________________

**** you all.

Post #: 5238

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/24/2023 2:31:05 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29139
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: odin

Alexander Mattison's 11 runs inside the 10-yard line have netted 0 touchdowns and -5 yards.
— Paul Charchian (@PaulCharchian) November 22, 2023

Our running game with Mattison has sucked..

But dumping cook was a good idea.. he hasn’t done squat this season .

Akers was better, chandler has better vision and is faster, just too easy to arm tackle.

Mattison is blind but runs tough … his problem is all the zero and - yard runs,and his ball security..

Plus his hands on passing plays .. god how many times has he just taken his eyes off a ball or just flat dropped one…

My eyes say way too much..

Personally, I’d cut him after this season..

Running backs on rookie contracts picked up their round or later are a far better use of money.. running and holding onto the ball isn’t rocket science, recognizing and blitz pickup is probably the most challenging part, next to catching out of the backfield, that an NFL player has to learn at a faster rate, compared to college football.

The Level of Tallent you face in the NFL is better than most top college teams, every week.

It’s a quantum leap, being the starter on an NFL franchise and I don’t think Mattison has that in him.

Cut him and save $600K. Or keep him in his traditional backup role for such a low cost. Ideally have a couple of RBs that can run, catch, and block but you're lucky to have just one of those types.

He's got two fumbles (both lost) this year.

He’s gonna be looking to get paid..

He’s not worth it..

Adequate running backs are found everywhere in the draft..

Better ones than Mattison are not that hard to find..

JMO..

He's under contract for next year. And at what is effectively $600K due to $4 million in dead cap, he's below the rookie minimum wage.

If as you say there are adequate backs throughout the draft, then use a 5th or 6th round pick on one that will start. I think it's hit or miss, and would rather not use a higher pick (ex. 3rd-4th) to increase the odds of panning out. So, find another Akers and draft a prospect late.

Post #: 5239

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/24/2023 3:14:46 PM

odin

Posts: 2315
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline

Dan, nice observations. It's funny how starting exposes a RBs weaknesses. Mattison is clearly a JAG at best, no bell cow. At least he's not totally useless, he can serve as a bad example.

Post #: 5240

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/24/2023 4:20:23 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19546
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

Man, watching the Jets and their QB’s, gives you massive perspective of what a good job KAM did with getting Dobbs. 😳

Post #: 5241

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/25/2023 9:16:46 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17948
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

The main thing wrong with this offense is the lack of a running game. Idt it's all on Mattison either. Not sure if we're using a gap or IZB scheme but there aren't many holes to run through and this oline is better than average. Might be wise to bring in a run game coordinator and see if it can be fixed. If you can't run against the ball against Denver you won't be able to against anybody let alone playoff teams.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 5242

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/25/2023 9:30:18 AM 2 votes

Ricky J

Posts: 18360
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

We did run against Denver.

Mattison 18/81 4.5
Chandler 10/73 7.3

We fumbled against them, too

Post #: 5243

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/25/2023 9:36:59 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18360
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Man, watching the Jets and their QB’s, gives you massive perspective of what a good job KAM did with getting Dobbs. 😳

@nflrums
Subscribe
You have to believe there is no way Jets Aaron Rodgers will come back and take a chance behind this OL this season.

-- oh oh, looks like Rogers is our QB next year

--- seriously, i would "bet the farm" against

Post #: 5244

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/25/2023 9:37:54 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29139
Status: offline

When there aren't many holes to run through, the OL is NOT better than average. It's worse than average.

We are right in the middle of rushing attempts (16th), yet are bottom tier in key indicators like ypc. Akers had better years with the Rams. Even Mattison had better years here.

Part of the issue though might be predictability. If fans can tell when we are running, imagine what DCs know.

Post #: 5245

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/25/2023 11:01:56 AM

Todd M

Posts: 41069
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

Curtis Modkins is our RB’s coach and run game coordinator.

There’s the problem. We should have an assistant RB coach and an assistant run game coordinator but we cheaped out.

_____________________________

The ego holds on to pain from the past to prevent pain in the future, which causes pain in the present.

Keith Crossley

Post #: 5246

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/26/2023 1:14:40 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18360
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Vikes 6th in the standings.

I'm rooting for the Colts and Cards today. Get in catch lightening in a bottle as they say.

- - one time!

Post #: 5247

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/26/2023 2:36:34 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18360
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Vikes 6th in the standings.

I'm rooting for the Colts and Cards today. Get in catch lightening in a bottle as they say.

- - one time!

Oh and go Falcons

Post #: 5248

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/26/2023 3:15:38 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18360
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Vikes 6th in the standings.

I'm rooting for the Colts and Cards today. Get in catch lightening in a bottle as they say.

- - one time!

Oh and go Falcons

Packers at 8. Vikings at 6. Lions at 3.

Bears hanging on to 14

< Message edited by Ricky J -- 11/26/2023 4:38:04 PM >

Post #: 5249

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/27/2023 9:32:29 AM

jbusse

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

Current PFF 2024 QB draft rankings

1. Caleb Williams, overall big board 1, 2023 PFF score 90.3
2. Drake Maye, 3, 90.8
3. Bo Nix, 17, 92.9
4. Jayden Daniels, 23, 94.6
5. Michael Penix, 25, 90.8
6. Shedeur Sanders, 38, 88.7
7. Carson Beck, 45, 91.7
8. JJ McCarthy, 52, 91.0

Post #: 5250