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RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 12:12:36 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5870
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

Looking forward to moving past 2023 now. Tired of great playoff football, to be honest.

Intrigued fascinated roused (not aroused) nervous apprehensive about the offseason.

Post #: 7826

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 12:42:45 PM

marty

Posts: 13029
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

I was impressed with both defenses being able to keep the opposing teams RB out of the end zone.

McCaffrey almost looked like he was going to solely win it for the 49ers in OT, but the Chiefs kept him from scoring.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 7827

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 12:46:21 PM

marty

Posts: 13029
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

I think Caleb Williams is the closest thing to Mahomes, and the Vikings should push their chips all in on him.

I think Williams is the most likely of the QBs being drafted to win a Super Bowl in the next 5 years.

Williams did lose a few games this year, but Mahomes was just 7-6, and 5-7 his last 2 years of college ball.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 7828

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 1:01:17 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77821
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think Caleb Williams is the closest thing to Mahomes, and the Vikings should push their chips all in on him.

I think Williams is the most likely of the QBs being drafted to win a Super Bowl in the next 5 years.

Williams did lose a few games this year, but Mahomes was just 7-6, and 5-7 his last 2 years of college ball.

That means the Bears trading us "the next Mahomes".

Post #: 7829

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 1:36:05 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27311
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty
I think Caleb Williams is the closest thing to Mahomes, and the Vikings should push their chips all in on him.
I think Williams is the most likely of the QBs being drafted to win a Super Bowl in the next 5 years.
Williams did lose a few games this year, but Mahomes was just 7-6, and 5-7 his last 2 years of college ball.

It is all about where they land. Which QB is a fit for KOC?

Some thought Josh Rosen was the guy...then he landed in Arizona.
Some thought Trey Lance was the guy and he was put in what was supposed to be the best fit in SF.

Zach Wilson
Sam Darnold

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 2/12/2024 1:40:20 PM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 7830

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 1:42:45 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77821
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty
I think Caleb Williams is the closest thing to Mahomes, and the Vikings should push their chips all in on him.
I think Williams is the most likely of the QBs being drafted to win a Super Bowl in the next 5 years.
Williams did lose a few games this year, but Mahomes was just 7-6, and 5-7 his last 2 years of college ball.

It is all about where they land. Which QB is a fit for KOC?

Some thought Josh Rosen was the guy...then he landed in Arizona.
Some thought Trey Lance was the guy and he was put in what was supposed to be the best fit in SF.

Zach Wilson
Sam Darnold

If you're drafting at the top, you better not draft for the coach's fit. You build aroiund the QB, not the other way around.

Post #: 7831

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 1:58:13 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27311
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty
I think Caleb Williams is the closest thing to Mahomes, and the Vikings should push their chips all in on him.
I think Williams is the most likely of the QBs being drafted to win a Super Bowl in the next 5 years.
Williams did lose a few games this year, but Mahomes was just 7-6, and 5-7 his last 2 years of college ball.

It is all about where they land. Which QB is a fit for KOC?

Some thought Josh Rosen was the guy...then he landed in Arizona.
Some thought Trey Lance was the guy and he was put in what was supposed to be the best fit in SF.

Zach Wilson
Sam Darnold

If you're drafting at the top, you better not draft for the coach's fit. You build aroiund the QB, not the other way around.

Easy to say....Addison, TJ, and JJ should work for any QB but will they?

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 2/12/2024 2:11:24 PM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 7832

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 2:41:24 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28459
Status: offline

In November 2020, team owners approved a proposal to reward franchises who developed diverse talent. Now, when teams lose a minority executive or coach to a promotion with another team, they receive a third-round compensatory pick for two years. If a team loses both a coach and a personnel member, it receives a third-rounder for three years.

San Francisco had seven compensatory picks in the 2023 NFL Draft, which is the maximum amount allotted. Three of them were third-round selections granted via the league's minority hiring incentive.

Current starting quarterback Brock Purdy, the last selection of the 2022 draft, joined the 49ers via a compensatory pick. The same is true for linebacker Dre Greenlaw and All-Pro safety Talanoa Hufanga.

Just a footnote, the three 3rd rounders were actually spread over, I think, three years.

Quite a haul just on the non-traditional comp picks. And we have Kwesi... ugh.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 2/12/2024 2:45:16 PM >

Post #: 7833

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 2:41:42 PM

Todd M

Posts: 40494
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

3 way trade. Patriots to 1 and then down to 11.

Post #: 7834

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 2:54:01 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28459
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Looking forward to moving past 2023 now. Tired of great playoff football, to be honest.

Intrigued fascinated roused (not aroused) nervous apprehensive about the offseason.

A step forward would simply be put the damn credit card away during free agency and don't get cute during the draft.

Post #: 7835

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 3:12:33 PM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 39181
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Looking forward to moving past 2023 now. Tired of great playoff football, to be honest.

Intrigued fascinated roused (not aroused) nervous apprehensive about the offseason.

A step forward would simply be put the damn credit card away during free agency and don't get cute during the draft.

I will be ok if we trade out of 11, BUT ONLY IF WE MOVE UP.

We do this moving down shit and miss getting a guy like Kyle Hamilton again....I will jump quite happily onto the FIRE KWESI bandwagon.

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”

Post #: 7836

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 3:17:13 PM

Todd M

Posts: 40494
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

I think Kwesi will always be open for business. Traded out year 1. Contemplated hard year 2.

Post #: 7837

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 3:25:12 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9498
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

In November 2020, team owners approved a proposal to reward franchises who developed diverse talent. Now, when teams lose a minority executive or coach to a promotion with another team, they receive a third-round compensatory pick for two years. If a team loses both a coach and a personnel member, it receives a third-rounder for three years.

San Francisco had seven compensatory picks in the 2023 NFL Draft, which is the maximum amount allotted. Three of them were third-round selections granted via the league's minority hiring incentive.

Current starting quarterback Brock Purdy, the last selection of the 2022 draft, joined the 49ers via a compensatory pick. The same is true for linebacker Dre Greenlaw and All-Pro safety Talanoa Hufanga.

Just a footnote, the three 3rd rounders were actually spread over, I think, three years.

Quite a haul just on the non-traditional comp picks. And we have Kwesi... ugh.

that's why kwesi was hiring so many coach's assistants over the last few years...whenever one moves on, we get a dei chip - where are all those comp picks we should be cashing in?....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 7838

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 3:28:53 PM

Todd M

Posts: 40494
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

Situationally this could make for one of the most exciting off seasons. If we land a shiny brand new QB that we all like everything changes.

1. Can Kwesi identify/land one of the best from the group?
2. Can Kevin develop him the right way?
3. Will be have Cousins in the way as the bridge QB?

Post #: 7839

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 3:35:29 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9498
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

it would be a shame if we drafted a top quarterback and he didn't have jeff and allison to throw to....

If he did, we'd never know if he was a top QB.

A top QB makes decent WRs look great. To jumpstart things, the QB can throw to Let's Get Paid, aka 'Allison'. Use Break The Bank's cap on IOL.

that's just a couple of kids talking about money - it's today's world....

let go of Harry and other dead-weight players...

extend hunter....

sign a 1st tier and 2nd tier dt and a couple of solid interior o-line....

sign a CB....

draft a QB....

three years?....let's go this season, baby....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 7840

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 3:39:03 PM

David F.

Posts: 10862
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Looking forward to moving past 2023 now. Tired of great playoff football, to be honest.

Intrigued fascinated roused (not aroused) nervous apprehensive about the offseason.

A step forward would simply be put the damn credit card away during free agency and don't get cute during the draft.

Arguments I hear FOR the credit card approach:

All the other teams do it
It's an easy way to manipulate the cap
Dollars pushed down the road are worth less than dollars today (This is the only legitimate reason in my opinion but still not a quality strategy)

Argument I will make right now AGAINST the credit card approach:

If you build your team through the draft and sensible free agency and DON'T have massive void-year-dead-cap-hits, you can monitor your team and when they are just about to hit contender status - then RELEASE THE HOUNDS and add two more good free agents with the credit card. Take your shot. Just don't bloat the future budget with massive dead cap from void years for the purpose of "maybe making the playoffs". Gross!

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 7841

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 3:55:56 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5870
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Looking forward to moving past 2023 now. Tired of great playoff football, to be honest.

Intrigued fascinated roused (not aroused) nervous apprehensive about the offseason.

A step forward would simply be put the damn credit card away during free agency and don't get cute during the draft.

That's a very austere, practical approach with obvious merits.

B-o-r-i-n-g!

2024 offseason epiphany #0001:

Resign Cousins, extend JJ, and draft McCarthy at #11.

Win 9 games. Watch 10 billion JJ commercials. Watch KC lose his feeble grip on reality (looking over right shoulder - Egyptians; left shoulder - McCarthy).

New regime in 2025 with no money or resources to add resources.

Post #: 7842

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 3:56:16 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77821
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty
I think Caleb Williams is the closest thing to Mahomes, and the Vikings should push their chips all in on him.
I think Williams is the most likely of the QBs being drafted to win a Super Bowl in the next 5 years.
Williams did lose a few games this year, but Mahomes was just 7-6, and 5-7 his last 2 years of college ball.

It is all about where they land. Which QB is a fit for KOC?

Some thought Josh Rosen was the guy...then he landed in Arizona.
Some thought Trey Lance was the guy and he was put in what was supposed to be the best fit in SF.

Zach Wilson
Sam Darnold

If you're drafting at the top, you better not draft for the coach's fit. You build aroiund the QB, not the other way around.

Easy to say....Addison, TJ, and JJ should work for any QB but will they?

Yes.

Post #: 7843

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 3:58:00 PM

beo

Posts: 2343
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

In November 2020, team owners approved a proposal to reward franchises who developed diverse talent. Now, when teams lose a minority executive or coach to a promotion with another team, they receive a third-round compensatory pick for two years. If a team loses both a coach and a personnel member, it receives a third-rounder for three years.

San Francisco had seven compensatory picks in the 2023 NFL Draft, which is the maximum amount allotted. Three of them were third-round selections granted via the league's minority hiring incentive.

Current starting quarterback Brock Purdy, the last selection of the 2022 draft, joined the 49ers via a compensatory pick. The same is true for linebacker Dre Greenlaw and All-Pro safety Talanoa Hufanga.

Just a footnote, the three 3rd rounders were actually spread over, I think, three years.

Quite a haul just on the non-traditional comp picks. And we have Kwesi... ugh.

that's why kwesi was hiring so many coach's assistants over the last few years...whenever one moves on, we get a dei chip - where are all those comp picks we should be cashing in?....

I believe they have to be with the team for 2 years.
But when/if Flores leaves Vikes would get a 3rd rounder I'd imagine.

Post #: 7844

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 4:18:38 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28459
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

it would be a shame if we drafted a top quarterback and he didn't have jeff and allison to throw to....

If he did, we'd never know if he was a top QB.

A top QB makes decent WRs look great. To jumpstart things, the QB can throw to Let's Get Paid, aka 'Allison'. Use Break The Bank's cap on IOL.

that's just a couple of kids talking about money - it's today's world....

let go of Harry and other dead-weight players...

extend hunter....

sign a 1st tier and 2nd tier dt and a couple of solid interior o-line....

sign a CB....

draft a QB....

three years?....let's go this season, baby....

JJ, Hunter, top DL, mid-tier DT, 2x mid-tier OL, CB.

What team's cap are you stealing from or what credit cards are you using? And we need a DE. And ILB. And we have ZERO backup OL if they hit free agency.

Agree on Smith, but what other dead weight players?

Post #: 7845

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 4:35:01 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28459
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Looking forward to moving past 2023 now. Tired of great playoff football, to be honest.

Intrigued fascinated roused (not aroused) nervous apprehensive about the offseason.

A step forward would simply be put the damn credit card away during free agency and don't get cute during the draft.

Arguments I hear FOR the credit card approach:

All the other teams do it
It's an easy way to manipulate the cap
Dollars pushed down the road are worth less than dollars today (This is the only legitimate reason in my opinion but still not a quality strategy)

Argument I will make right now AGAINST the credit card approach:

If you build your team through the draft and sensible free agency and DON'T have massive void-year-dead-cap-hits, you can monitor your team and when they are just about to hit contender status - then RELEASE THE HOUNDS and add two more good free agents with the credit card. Take your shot. Just don't bloat the future budget with massive dead cap from void years for the purpose of "maybe making the playoffs". Gross!

Exactly! And it's the point I've been trying to make with JJs likely contract. Sure, his cap hit might be low for two years but that just means a greater cap payout in the future.

And yes there are savings with moving money out. 40M is 17.8% of a total 225M cap, but if the 40M is defrayed a couple of years it's 15.1% of a 265M cap. That 2.7% difference equates to what we will be paying in Davenport's dead/void year cap in 2024, $6.8M. Not peanuts, but as you mentioned it's (in this example, $40M) a big loss in flexibility to theoretically get to the big dance.

Conversely, being $40M UNDER then releasing the hounds to go $40M over gives you $80M at a time of your choice to round out an actual competitive roster.

Post #: 7846

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 4:43:16 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28459
Status: offline

that's just a couple of kids talking about money - it's today's world....

You're right. They don't mean it. Big bucks are the furthest things from their minds.

Post #: 7847

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 4:55:22 PM

marty

Posts: 13029
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

That means the Bears trading us "the next Mahomes

Yes, I believe the Bears are stupid enough to do it.

Just need to convince them this is another Herschel Walker trade, give them the best offer, and affirm that Fields can still do it for them, he just needs all the pieces surrounding him. And further, convince them that Williams will be a bust, and that he doesn't want to play for the Bears anyway.

The Vikings get Caleb Williams, and the dream begins ....

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 7848

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 4:56:18 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33746
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Situationally this could make for one of the most exciting off seasons. If we land a shiny brand new QB that we all like everything changes.

1. Can Kwesi identify/land one of the best from the group?
2. Can Kevin develop him the right way?
3. Will be have Cousins in the way as the bridge QB?

Is there a QB we all like? I don't particularly like any of them. I'm only in favor of trading up for a QB if I see the equivalent of Andrew Luck or Joe Burrow.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 2/12/2024 4:59:28 PM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 7849

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2024 5:03:34 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27311
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Situationally this could make for one of the most exciting off seasons. If we land a shiny brand new QB that we all like everything changes.

1. Can Kwesi identify/land one of the best from the group?
2. Can Kevin develop him the right way?
3. Will be have Cousins in the way as the bridge QB?

Is there a QB we all like? I don't particularly like any of them. I'm only in favor of trading up for a QB if I see the equivalent of Andrew Luck or Joe Burrow.

R U Kidding? This is one of the best classes in a while. Williams, McCarthy, Penix, Maye, and Daniels....also Rattler, Mixon, etc. in the mid rounds. Some also like Nix...he is the one I am most worried about.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 7850