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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2023 12:49:52 PM   
Ricky J


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And does Cousins deserve the bad rap as much as its attached to him for holding the ball too long? The eye test seems to be different for those that have a tendency be critical of him more than those that find themselves defending him a lot. Don't know, but Id be interested in a study by an unbiased "expert"
Post #: 876
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2023 12:59:02 PM   
Ricky J


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interesting tweet:

Sam Monson

@PFF_Sam
Β·
1h
PFF passing grade when trailing since the start of 2020:

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Joe Burrow
3. Patrick Mahomes

4...π‘²π’Šπ’“π’Œ π‘ͺπ’π’–π’”π’Šπ’π’”!!
Post #: 877
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2023 1:08:47 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

With your QB having a tendency to hold onto the ball too long -or- the playcall demanding the QB hold onto the ball too long (slow developing routes). Another thing that's impossible to know.



In an interview yesterday with NFL Network, Cousins talked about how he could made an incorrect call in the huddle and that could cause problems. It happened at practice. Made the call, made the wrong protection call and the Center did exactly what he was supposed to do on that call and that left Harrison Phillips unblocked to the QB.

Not saying this happens all the time...just that the QB can made an incorrect call and the lineman did nothing wrong.

Very possible. One of the improvements from Cousins last year was finally seeing him have some control over adjustments at the LOS. Maybe he still has a ways to go with that.

Before last year, one of the main criticisms of Cousins or maybe Zimmer even more, was the lack of adjustment at the LOS. Cousins was given a play to call and that was that ... regardless of what the defense did before the snap. Was it because the brain-trust was not comfortable with Cousin's ability to process adjustments - or - because the brain-trust suffered from a defense-minded neurosis and had already started to zombify into petrified wood?

It certainly fed into the narrative of Cousins as a dimwitted, numsculled, lunkheaded buffoon.

I know now that is a slight exaggeration.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 8/3/2023 1:10:32 PM >
Post #: 878
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2023 1:53:07 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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Ben Goessling@BenGoessling
6h

Danielle Hunter’s new contract with the #Vikings still has two void years in it, pushing $14.9 million of dead money into 2024.

His 2023 cap is $20.953M ($10M base, $1.5M in per-game RB, $1.833M SB proration, $7.62M of old bonus prorations). He has $3M of NLTBE incentives.

He’ll make $17 million, before incentives, if he’s active for all 17 games. His incentives are tied to sacks, and can push the cash value up to $20M.
Post #: 879
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2023 2:03:47 PM   
David F.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

interesting tweet:

Sam Monson

@PFF_Sam
Β·
1h
PFF passing grade when trailing since the start of 2020:

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Joe Burrow
3. Patrick Mahomes

4...π‘²π’Šπ’“π’Œ π‘ͺπ’π’–π’”π’Šπ’π’”!!



Kirk's biggest problem is Kirk Cousins. He doesn't completely let go of his mental hangups until he's put in a position where he's forced to. This is highlighted in the series Quarterback that is so popular right now. If he could play like he does when he's behind in the fourth quarter when it's just the second or third quarter and we're up by 10 then these games would be salted away by the fourth. He's also really good on the first drive because it's scripted and he knows how it's going to go. Dude has absolutely zero killer instinct.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 880
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2023 2:17:43 PM   
Ricky J


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

interesting tweet:

Sam Monson

@PFF_Sam
Β·
1h
PFF passing grade when trailing since the start of 2020:

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Joe Burrow
3. Patrick Mahomes

4...π‘²π’Šπ’“π’Œ π‘ͺπ’π’–π’”π’Šπ’π’”!!



Kirk's biggest problem is Kirk Cousins. He doesn't completely let go of his mental hangups until he's put in a position where he's forced to. This is highlighted in the series Quarterback that is so popular right now. If he could play like he does when he's behind in the fourth quarter when it's just the second or third quarter and we're up by 10 then these games would be salted away by the fourth. He's also really good on the first drive because it's scripted and he knows how it's going to go. Dude has absolutely zero killer instinct.


Here's what I've come to believe about Kirk: if he identifies a prob in his play he'll most certainly try to correct it. I don't know if he'll be able to incorporate "killer instinct" into his game but if he sees it as an issue id bet big he'll address it
Post #: 881
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2023 2:41:45 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

interesting tweet:

Sam Monson

@PFF_Sam
Β·
1h
PFF passing grade when trailing since the start of 2020:

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Joe Burrow
3. Patrick Mahomes

4...π‘²π’Šπ’“π’Œ π‘ͺπ’π’–π’”π’Šπ’π’”!!



Kirk's biggest problem is Kirk Cousins. He doesn't completely let go of his mental hangups until he's put in a position where he's forced to. This is highlighted in the series Quarterback that is so popular right now. If he could play like he does when he's behind in the fourth quarter when it's just the second or third quarter and we're up by 10 then these games would be salted away by the fourth. He's also really good on the first drive because it's scripted and he knows how it's going to go. Dude has absolutely zero killer instinct.

I get what you’re saying about killer instinct ... he’s almost too decent a person to be an NFL QB. Can he kick someone in the nuts for simply wearing a different colored jersey? Not sure and that's a necessary quality.

The bottomline is, Cousins is accurate and durable as all get out. I think he’s very good at some other things –nobody should ever question his toughness or preparation ... but there are also a lot of lesser QBs that process things faster and are much more competent when things go off-schedule. The lack of spontaneity in his DNA is a medical curiosity.

For someone who is so consistent at being statistically good ... I find the number of three and outs and dud quarters he puts up, even against bad defenses, to be remarkable.

If we make the playoffs this season, can Cousins do better than last year’s failure and pull out a playoff win? Yes, of course. He already did it against NO.

Can he perform over and over again during a playoff run to a SB victory? Well ... the history of primates, the emergence of Homo Sapiens including the gradual development of traits such as bipedalism and thumb dexterity, as well as his own personal NFL evolution over his 11 seasons ... suggests its not real likely.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 8/3/2023 2:43:41 PM >
Post #: 882
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2023 3:10:03 PM   
David F.


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On the show quarterback, they highlight a play early in the game at Philly last year. They run Cook up the gut for -1 yard. Kirk says he should have checked out of the play based on the look of the D. Coach says the same. It was obvious to everyone within a half mile of the line of scrimmage. But he just ran the damn play. Meanwhile Mahomes is identifying D schemes after getting picked and is talking on the sideline to his coaches and players about how to make them pay - and then does. Mahomes is allowed to design plays (must be approved by Andy Reid) and is shown calling and performing them for easy TDS. Meanwhile Kirk is speaking the existing play calls that are givin to him on Tuesday into his phone so he can practice saying them out loud during the week. Yes - Kirk works hard - to stay slightly above average.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 883
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2023 3:23:48 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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Cousins is merely a game manager who once in a while starts zinging the ball all over. But the latter is not in his DNA.

He is a statue and going off script is not in his nature, so he is a problem. We are stuck with someone who would be perfect under Vince Lombardi while the styles of Mahomes, Allen, and several others are what's needed.
Post #: 884
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2023 3:51:30 PM   
ratoppenheimer


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From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
.
.
how do we watch the night practice tonight?...anyone?....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 885
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2023 3:55:52 PM   
Ricky J


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Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

On the show quarterback, they highlight a play early in the game at Philly last year. They run Cook up the gut for -1 yard. Kirk says he should have checked out of the play based on the look of the D. Coach says the same. It was obvious to everyone within a half mile of the line of scrimmage. But he just ran the damn play. Meanwhile Mahomes is identifying D schemes after getting picked and is talking on the sideline to his coaches and players about how to make them pay - and then does. Mahomes is allowed to design plays (must be approved by Andy Reid) and is shown calling and performing them for easy TDS. Meanwhile Kirk is speaking the existing play calls that are givin to him on Tuesday into his phone so he can practice saying them out loud during the week. Yes - Kirk works hard - to stay slightly above average.

So Mahomes never ran a play he had bad vibes about and wished he would of checked out of it later. There isn't a QB that hasn't done that. You make it sound like Kirk does it every other series.

sigh
Post #: 886
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2023 4:12:46 PM   
David F.


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Joined: 12/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

On the show quarterback, they highlight a play early in the game at Philly last year. They run Cook up the gut for -1 yard. Kirk says he should have checked out of the play based on the look of the D. Coach says the same. It was obvious to everyone within a half mile of the line of scrimmage. But he just ran the damn play. Meanwhile Mahomes is identifying D schemes after getting picked and is talking on the sideline to his coaches and players about how to make them pay - and then does. Mahomes is allowed to design plays (must be approved by Andy Reid) and is shown calling and performing them for easy TDS. Meanwhile Kirk is speaking the existing play calls that are givin to him on Tuesday into his phone so he can practice saying them out loud during the week. Yes - Kirk works hard - to stay slightly above average.

So Mahomes never ran a play he had bad vibes about and wished he would of checked out of it later. There isn't a QB that hasn't done that. You make it sound like Kirk does it every other series.

sigh


Technically the series on TV makes it sound like that. Of course there are exceptions to all of this - tons of them. When Kirk ran the ball in for a TD against Arizona (I think?) that was an exception - and what a great one! The series showed that too and filmed coaches takes on it after the fact (coaches loved it). These are still just exceptions though. The theme of the show is clear to me. They are highlighting an elite QB, an above average one, and a poor one. Mahomes has won two super bowls and played in three and won the division title every year he's played. Cousins has one playoff win. Mariota gets benched.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 887
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2023 6:56:42 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

On the show quarterback, they highlight a play early in the game at Philly last year. They run Cook up the gut for -1 yard. Kirk says he should have checked out of the play based on the look of the D. Coach says the same. It was obvious to everyone within a half mile of the line of scrimmage. But he just ran the damn play. Meanwhile Mahomes is identifying D schemes after getting picked and is talking on the sideline to his coaches and players about how to make them pay - and then does. Mahomes is allowed to design plays (must be approved by Andy Reid) and is shown calling and performing them for easy TDS. Meanwhile Kirk is speaking the existing play calls that are givin to him on Tuesday into his phone so he can practice saying them out loud during the week. Yes - Kirk works hard - to stay slightly above average.

So Mahomes never ran a play he had bad vibes about and wished he would of checked out of it later. There isn't a QB that hasn't done that. You make it sound like Kirk does it every other series.

sigh


Technically the series on TV makes it sound like that. Of course there are exceptions to all of this - tons of them. When Kirk ran the ball in for a TD against Arizona (I think?) that was an exception - and what a great one! The series showed that too and filmed coaches takes on it after the fact (coaches loved it). These are still just exceptions though. The theme of the show is clear to me. They are highlighting an elite QB, an above average one, and a poor one. Mahomes has won two super bowls and played in three and won the division title every year he's played. Cousins has one playoff win. Mariota gets benched.


Netflix went with a guy who has 'it' (Rolex), a quirky, flawed guy who takes a beating and [sometimes] keeps on ticking (Timex), and a throwaway (unknown brand).

A Mercedes, a Jeep, and a Trabant.
Post #: 888
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2023 8:56:40 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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"Kellen Mond picked by Chazz Surratt. What a world."

https://twitter.com/WillRagatz/status/1687268879393816577
Post #: 889
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2023 9:41:20 PM   
marty


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Kirk's lack of killer instinct leads to too many 3 and outs in the 2nd and 3rd quarters.

I am guessing Kirk has more experience playing behind then some of the other QBs listed ?

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 890
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2023 5:52:22 AM   
BisonFan

 

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Anyone else thinking Booth was a wasted pick? Always hurt.
Post #: 891
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2023 6:30:17 AM   
ratoppenheimer


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From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Kirk's lack of killer instinct leads to too many 3 and outs in the 2nd and 3rd quarters.

I am guessing Kirk has more experience playing behind then some of the other QBs listed ?



o'connell has to do better with the mid-game playcalling...get risner signed...cousins is a tier 2 qb - give him all the help you can....

how can kwesi/o'connell watch kirk take so many hard hits with the two worst pass-protecting guards in the league and not make an upgrade?....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 892
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2023 7:01:17 AM   
Todd M

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BisonFan

Anyone else thinking Booth was a wasted pick? Always hurt.


An absolutely wasted pick.

The guy doesn't have a football body. He showed what he was and Kwesi only seen what could be if it wasn't what it was.
Post #: 893
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2023 7:12:39 AM   
Karl Juhnke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

"Kellen Mond picked by Chazz Surratt. What a world."

https://twitter.com/WillRagatz/status/1687268879393816577


Yikes. No pressure. Looks at the receiver the whole way, and under throws him by 5 yards.

I see backup arena qb in his future…if he’s lucky.

< Message edited by Karl Juhnke -- 8/4/2023 7:14:16 AM >
Post #: 894
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2023 7:20:32 AM   
Phil Riewer


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From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Cousins is merely a game manager who once in a while starts zinging the ball all over. But the latter is not in his DNA.

He is a statue and going off script is not in his nature, so he is a problem. We are stuck with someone who would be perfect under Vince Lombardi while the styles of Mahomes, Allen, and several others are what's needed.


As soon as you mention Mahomes, Allen and others (Hebert, Burrow) it becomes a straw man...pretty much everyone is aware he isn't a top 5 qb.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 895
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2023 7:42:12 AM   
Todd M

 

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World class facilities and this bum can't tape himself together a few practices after an off season of rest.
Post #: 896
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2023 8:29:16 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

"Kellen Mond picked by Chazz Surratt. What a world."

https://twitter.com/WillRagatz/status/1687268879393816577


Yikes. No pressure. Looks at the receiver the whole way, and under throws him by 5 yards.

I see backup arena qb in his future…if he’s lucky.

If saratt hadn't intercepted it,the db would have.

< Message edited by thebigo -- 8/4/2023 8:33:39 AM >
Post #: 897
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2023 10:41:00 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

And does Cousins deserve the bad rap as much as its attached to him for holding the ball too long? The eye test seems to be different for those that have a tendency be critical of him more than those that find themselves defending him a lot. Don't know, but Id be interested in a study by an unbiased "expert"

It's always a fine line between holding the ball too long or having the courage to hang in there long enough to make the play.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 898
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2023 10:55:37 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

On the show quarterback, they highlight a play early in the game at Philly last year. They run Cook up the gut for -1 yard. Kirk says he should have checked out of the play based on the look of the D. Coach says the same. It was obvious to everyone within a half mile of the line of scrimmage. But he just ran the damn play. Meanwhile Mahomes is identifying D schemes after getting picked and is talking on the sideline to his coaches and players about how to make them pay - and then does. Mahomes is allowed to design plays (must be approved by Andy Reid) and is shown calling and performing them for easy TDS. Meanwhile Kirk is speaking the existing play calls that are givin to him on Tuesday into his phone so he can practice saying them out loud during the week. Yes - Kirk works hard - to stay slightly above average.

So Mahomes never ran a play he had bad vibes about and wished he would of checked out of it later. There isn't a QB that hasn't done that. You make it sound like Kirk does it every other series.

sigh


Technically the series on TV makes it sound like that. Of course there are exceptions to all of this - tons of them. When Kirk ran the ball in for a TD against Arizona (I think?) that was an exception - and what a great one! The series showed that too and filmed coaches takes on it after the fact (coaches loved it). These are still just exceptions though. The theme of the show is clear to me. They are highlighting an elite QB, an above average one, and a poor one. Mahomes has won two super bowls and played in three and won the division title every year he's played. Cousins has one playoff win. Mariota gets benched.

I disagree. Game 2. Kirk says it's one of those moments that he realized he wasn't comfortable yet in the [new] system. "Our guy" is going to give you the truth all day regardless if it makes him look bad.

Probably some bias here and people are seeing what they want to see I'll concede that but this series focuses a lot on how difficult it is to play QB. There's much more to it than physical ability. It makes me wonder how those that aren't super motivated would look with an in-depth view into their job performance.

Eight billion people on the planet and we have one of the guys that can win us a SB. This would be a good time for everyone, for one time, to drop all preconceived notions and just roll with some positivity - "negativity sucks!" One time!
Post #: 899
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2023 11:09:03 AM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

On the show quarterback, they highlight a play early in the game at Philly last year. They run Cook up the gut for -1 yard. Kirk says he should have checked out of the play based on the look of the D. Coach says the same. It was obvious to everyone within a half mile of the line of scrimmage. But he just ran the damn play. Meanwhile Mahomes is identifying D schemes after getting picked and is talking on the sideline to his coaches and players about how to make them pay - and then does. Mahomes is allowed to design plays (must be approved by Andy Reid) and is shown calling and performing them for easy TDS. Meanwhile Kirk is speaking the existing play calls that are givin to him on Tuesday into his phone so he can practice saying them out loud during the week. Yes - Kirk works hard - to stay slightly above average.

So Mahomes never ran a play he had bad vibes about and wished he would of checked out of it later. There isn't a QB that hasn't done that. You make it sound like Kirk does it every other series.

sigh


Technically the series on TV makes it sound like that. Of course there are exceptions to all of this - tons of them. When Kirk ran the ball in for a TD against Arizona (I think?) that was an exception - and what a great one! The series showed that too and filmed coaches takes on it after the fact (coaches loved it). These are still just exceptions though. The theme of the show is clear to me. They are highlighting an elite QB, an above average one, and a poor one. Mahomes has won two super bowls and played in three and won the division title every year he's played. Cousins has one playoff win. Mariota gets benched.

I disagree. Game 2. Kirk says it's one of those moments that he realized he wasn't comfortable yet in the [new] system. "Our guy" is going to give you the truth all day regardless if it makes him look bad.

Probably some bias here and people are seeing what they want to see I'll concede that but this series focuses a lot on how difficult it is to play QB. There's much more to it than physical ability. It makes me wonder how those that aren't super motivated would look with an in-depth view into their job performance.

Eight billion people on the planet and we have one of the guys that can win us a SB. This would be a good time for everyone, for one time, to drop all preconceived notions and just roll with some positivity - "negativity sucks!" One time!


"wasn't comfortable yet in the system" Dude's been in the NFL for 10 years. Favre came to the team in 2009, took one look at Chilly's kick-ass offense, and hijacked the playcalling. He didn't need to get familiar because he'd played the position enough to have an understanding of the game. Kirk doesn't have that. I disagree 100% that we have one of the people on the planet that can win a super bowl. Acknowledging this doesn't make me negative, a bad fan, or indicate an agenda.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 900
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