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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/27/2023 8:14:00 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

Trey Lance traded to Dallas. Thank you Cowpukes.

I would love to have Lance over Hall as a project ... much higher cieling IMO ... just not for a 4th rd pick at this point (as its being reported by nfl.com).

I give SF credit for quickly course correcting (although they got ridiculously lucky with Purdy). I give Dallas credit for gambling on a project at QB with MAYBE some ceiling. Certainly more than the usual 1 out of 1 million chance late rd draft pick.


I was actually disappointed to see the trade to D myself.

I actually like Rush as a backup more than Prescott as a starter … so surprised they would give up 4th for somebody who’s going to sit for awhile.

Its a wild stab but yeah I would hate for Lance to turn into something now. Freakin Cowboys.


Of course you do! Cooper Rush or Rush Cooper looked like a Pro Bowler against us.

Thinking we will have a high-intensity defense that will make a lot of mistakes. Envision a play action where five Vikings defenders tackle the would be ball carrier while some QB tosses a 50 yarder for a TD... the color man announcer saying "Oh, that looked like a big breakdown in communication."

I can't even remember when that started ... making backups look all pro. It seems like its been going on forever.

However, 5 vikings defenders converging on a would be ball carrier ... even the wrong one ... vast improvement! I'm back on the wagon!
Post #: 1476
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/27/2023 10:05:28 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

When Fields can show he's more than a running back I'll buy in.


Yup. I fully expect Richardson to have some super human highlight reel runs for Colts and people will declare him the second coming.

Can he throw?

Lots of these run first QBs better win big quickly because they will end up sucking if they can’t figure out passing from pocket.

Not to mention the inevitable injury that takes away that running game from there play
Post #: 1477
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/27/2023 10:49:43 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline 		Vedarian Lowe traded to New England for a 6th round pick. We actually got a pick for one of our O Line would be cuts.

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Post #: 1478
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 7:52:12 AM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

I thought Hall was horrible today. Decent start, but finished so bad.


i agree - i'd let him go....

did well with the first series of scripted plays and then fell off badly....


I saw enough to keep him as the third QB...he was drafted as a developmental guy for a reason. He looked athletic in the pocket.

Not saying he is Culpepper but I remember watching him his first year and wondering what the hell we did---he actually looked worse than Hall his first year in preseason games.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 8/28/2023 7:53:23 AM >

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Post #: 1479
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 10:17:15 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

I thought Hall was horrible today. Decent start, but finished so bad.


i agree - i'd let him go....

did well with the first series of scripted plays and then fell off badly....


I saw enough to keep him as the third QB...he was drafted as a developmental guy for a reason. He looked athletic in the pocket.

Not saying he is Culpepper but I remember watching him his first year and wondering what the hell we did---he actually looked worse than Hall his first year in preseason games.

Its too early to give up on him but he hasn’t shown anything. Mobility is a bare minimum, not a great attribute. It only stands out because our other two QBs are so lacking.

I hope he develops. It bothers me though that our calculus seems to be finding someone we can safely stash on our PS to develop, i.e., not good enough to compete for backup right now, much less eventual starter. Our offseason plan started with ‘Cousins and Mullens are untouchable’ in highliter.

No, I don’t consider myself more savy than Kwesi or Kevin - before you go there - I get it, there’s a lot of reasons for … but it irks me.

In fact, it Wrath of Khan ‘tasks’ me.
Post #: 1480
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 11:27:59 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28604
Status: offline 		Considering the legit QB alternatives are to extend Cousins or draft a QB high, I don't see a problem taking a flyer on Hall or any QB in the bottom of the 5th round (pick #164 which in the pre-supplemental days would have been a high 6th rounder). For a comparison of Kwesi's draft acumen, look at the 2022 5th rounder taken a spot below at #165 (DE Otomewo).
Post #: 1481
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 11:31:35 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28604
Status: offline 		From the 5th round on, take BPA among the premium positions like QB, CB, DE, T, or flyers on players at positions of dire need.
Post #: 1482
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 11:36:53 AM   
Phil Riewer


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From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

I thought Hall was horrible today. Decent start, but finished so bad.


i agree - i'd let him go....

did well with the first series of scripted plays and then fell off badly....


I saw enough to keep him as the third QB...he was drafted as a developmental guy for a reason. He looked athletic in the pocket.

Not saying he is Culpepper but I remember watching him his first year and wondering what the hell we did---he actually looked worse than Hall his first year in preseason games.

Its too early to give up on him but he hasn’t shown anything. Mobility is a bare minimum, not a great attribute. It only stands out because our other two QBs are so lacking.

I hope he develops. It bothers me though that our calculus seems to be finding someone we can safely stash on our PS to develop, i.e., not good enough to compete for backup right now, much less eventual starter. Our offseason plan started with ‘Cousins and Mullens are untouchable’ in highliter.

No, I don’t consider myself more savy than Kwesi or Kevin - before you go there - I get it, there’s a lot of reasons for … but it irks me.

In fact, it Wrath of Khan ‘tasks’ me.


History for drafting QB early is such a high cost that the spot and cost of drafting Herbert, Mahomes, Fields in the middle of the first seems like the sweet spot---those teams are feeling better than the Rosen, Lance, Wilson teams....

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Post #: 1483
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 11:38:26 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

I thought Hall was horrible today. Decent start, but finished so bad.


i agree - i'd let him go....

did well with the first series of scripted plays and then fell off badly....


I saw enough to keep him as the third QB...he was drafted as a developmental guy for a reason. He looked athletic in the pocket.

Not saying he is Culpepper but I remember watching him his first year and wondering what the hell we did---he actually looked worse than Hall his first year in preseason games.

Its too early to give up on him but he hasn’t shown anything. Mobility is a bare minimum, not a great attribute. It only stands out because our other two QBs are so lacking.

I hope he develops. It bothers me though that our calculus seems to be finding someone we can safely stash on our PS to develop, i.e., not good enough to compete for backup right now, much less eventual starter. Our offseason plan started with ‘Cousins and Mullens are untouchable’ in highliter.

No, I don’t consider myself more savy than Kwesi or Kevin - before you go there - I get it, there’s a lot of reasons for … but it irks me.

In fact, it Wrath of Khan ‘tasks’ me.


Who knows how many reps he did get (in practice) before that game but I saw more in him than some other clipboard huggers.

I also saw him throwing to a collection of WR/TE not named JJ, Addison, KJ or TJ.

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Post #: 1484
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 12:45:12 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Considering the legit QB alternatives are to extend Cousins or draft a QB high, I don't see a problem taking a flyer on Hall or any QB in the bottom of the 5th round (pick #164 which in the pre-supplemental days would have been a high 6th rounder). For a comparison of Kwesi's draft acumen, look at the 2022 5th rounder taken a spot below at #165 (DE Otomewo).

I don't either.

My gripe is not with practice squad filler, You have to take chances. It's with no real competition for the PS spot or #2 spot.

I get that these guys like Mullens and Hall ... I know that QB requires a different approach than the other positions.

Maybe its purely a function of the limited reps and exposure it takes to develop / prepare QBs...

It just always seems like a stripped down approach to me with narrower options decided very early.

While we are oozing TEs ...
Post #: 1485
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 1:45:28 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		I question why we didn't cough up a 4th for Lance. Considering the Wilf's want the team to remain competitive during the rebuild puts us square in NFL QB purgatory. Lance is a bit of a long shot but clearly has the tools to become a franchise qb. I think Hall's ceiling is career backup.

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Post #: 1486
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 1:50:23 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77939
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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I question why we didn't cough up a 4th for Lance. Considering the Wilf's want the team to remain competitive during the rebuild puts us square in NFL QB purgatory. Lance is a bit of a long shot but clearly has the tools to become a franchise qb. I think Hall's ceiling is career backup.


Its the most important position in the game by a mile.

If you're going to spend a current 5th on a guy like Hall, why wouldn't you trade a future 4th (essentially 5th round value) for a MUCH better prospect.

Its water under the bridge now, but I also found it interesting that while Shanahan has a fantastic record of putting players in the best position to succeed, he does NOT have a good rep for developing young QBs.
Post #: 1487
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 1:59:24 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I question why we didn't cough up a 4th for Lance. Considering the Wilf's want the team to remain competitive during the rebuild puts us square in NFL QB purgatory. Lance is a bit of a long shot but clearly has the tools to become a franchise qb. I think Hall's ceiling is career backup.


Its the most important position in the game by a mile.

If you're going to spend a current 5th on a guy like Hall, why wouldn't you trade a future 4th (essentially 5th round value) for a MUCH better prospect.

Its water under the bridge now, but I also found it interesting that while Shanahan has a fantastic record of putting players in the best position to succeed, he does NOT have a good rep for developing young QBs.


Lance has had a bit of the injury bug of a broken ankle/leg and the hand injury last year. Purdy just ended up being better at reading defenses and reacting quicker....SF really lucked out because they traded a ton of picks for Lance.

I finde it strange SF didn't draft a DTR instead of bringing in Darnold as the 2nd string....

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Post #: 1488
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 2:12:52 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline 		Kirk has to be back. Do the Vikings really want to be developing a QB during JJ's prime years. No way. Kirk will be back.

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Post #: 1489
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 2:41:56 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Status: offline 		I finde it strange SF didn't draft a DTR instead of bringing in Darnold as the 2nd string....


Most teams prefer the #2 qb to have some game exp.

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Post #: 1490
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 2:53:33 PM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I question why we didn't cough up a 4th for Lance. Considering the Wilf's want the team to remain competitive during the rebuild puts us square in NFL QB purgatory. Lance is a bit of a long shot but clearly has the tools to become a franchise qb. I think Hall's ceiling is career backup.


There are warning signs all over Lance that he's not a very talented football player.

Wasn't worth the pick.

Cowboys got conned.

Because of Covid, and injuries Lance has hardly played in years.

When he got a chance he didn't look all that competent.

I exhaled a sigh of relief when I round out that he wasn't coming here.

< Message edited by Trekgeekscott -- 8/28/2023 2:55:02 PM >

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Post #: 1491
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 2:54:15 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I finde it strange SF didn't draft a DTR instead of bringing in Darnold as the 2nd string....


Most teams prefer the #2 qb to have some game exp.


DTR is better than Darnold already from what I saw.

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Post #: 1492
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 3:45:56 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I question why we didn't cough up a 4th for Lance. Considering the Wilf's want the team to remain competitive during the rebuild puts us square in NFL QB purgatory. Lance is a bit of a long shot but clearly has the tools to become a franchise qb. I think Hall's ceiling is career backup.


There are warning signs all over Lance that he's not a very talented football player.

Wasn't worth the pick.

Cowboys got conned.

Because of Covid, and injuries Lance has hardly played in years.

When he got a chance he didn't look all that competent.

I exhaled a sigh of relief when I round out that he wasn't coming here.



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"So let it be written.
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Post #: 1493
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 3:58:29 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

Kirk has to be back. Do the Vikings really want to be developing a QB during JJ's prime years. No way. Kirk will be back.

I can guarantee that Kirk will be back. Not because of JJ but because our ownership and current regime seems more than happy with smaller successes over a more transformative goal of going after the one big thing.

You’re right, that would mean stepping on KCs or JJs toes and thats a big no-no.
Post #: 1494
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 4:00:47 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

Kirk has to be back. Do the Vikings really want to be developing a QB during JJ's prime years. No way. Kirk will be back.

I can guarantee that Kirk will be back. Not because of JJ but because our ownership and current regime seems more than happy with smaller successes over a more transformative goal of going after the one big thing.

You’re right, that would mean stepping on KCs or JJs toes and thats a big no-no.

I believe keeping Kirk is the best way to go after the one big thing.

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Post #: 1495
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 5:00:24 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28604
Status: offline 		Strange that 'One playoff win in 11 years' Cousins is so good yet his contract was not extended. Maybe not so strange considering that happened to him in Washington as well. Fool's gold.


"...Kirk will be back. Not because of JJ..." More like Kirk will not be back because of JJ. 30 million reasons a year help explain why. JJ, Darrisaw, O'Neill, Hock, + dead cap will result in having to go with a high pick at QB.
Post #: 1496
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 5:11:15 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28604
Status: offline 		BTW, how long is a competitive rebuild supposed to last, and how far along are things?

Is anyone on D talented enough to worry a DC? Someone on the DL? At LB? DB? Lots of new faces suggests it is another "we have to see what we have" year.

So it's laughable reading Cousins is the best bet to take us to the promised land. Well, that is technically true, especially for now. He may be the best out of no alternatives, but that doesn't mean he is the guy that can or will do it.
Post #: 1497
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 5:21:32 PM   
Ricky J


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Status: offline 		Id like to think, unlike many, Kirk got better and is going to get better yet going forward. Theres lots of talk about his past like he hasnt got any better since year 5.
Pretty sure he works pretty hard at improving his game. We should have a better team than last year, better than anything Zim did for him, so let's see where it takes us.
Be interesting to see what promises the fan base will make this year. "If only ..."
Post #: 1498
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 5:24:24 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I finde it strange SF didn't draft a DTR instead of bringing in Darnold as the 2nd string....


Most teams prefer the #2 qb to have some game exp.


DTR is better than Darnold already from what I saw.

It's kind of like us with Sean Mannion. Coaches like a veteran holding the clipboard that can add their 2 cents in and help the starter. Not saying I agree with it.

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Post #: 1499
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2023 5:24:25 PM   
David Levine


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From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Id like to think, unlike many, Kirk got better and is going to get better yet going forward. Theres lots of talk about his past like he hasnt got any better since year 5.
Pretty sure he works pretty hard at improving his game. We should have a better team than last year, better than anything Zim did for him, so let's see where it takes us.
Be interesting to see what promises the fan base will make this year. "If only ..."


It's totally possible.

But probably unlikely at age 35 and going into his 12th year (9th as a starter) that he has much untapped upside.
Post #: 1500
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