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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 11:33:39 AM

Todd M

Posts: 40689
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

Of course Kwesi lets TJ set the market.

He’s not a good GM.

Post #: 1676

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 11:38:46 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28612
Status: offline

For KG... oh please. As if $4 million a year more for Hock is worth getting into a tizzy about and saying we can't sign your precious QB.

Hell, an added void year easily accommodates $4 million. In fact, the way Kwesi operates it's only about two void months!

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 8/31/2023 11:46:01 AM >

Post #: 1677

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 11:38:47 AM

joejitsu

Posts: 15424
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
9s
PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL

Wow. I didn’t think he’d get that much money from us. And JJ is expected to set the market with his upcoming deal.

Post #: 1678

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 11:44:42 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28612
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
9s
PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL

Wow. I didn’t think he’d get that much money from us. And JJ is expected to set the market with his upcoming deal.

All that is nothing.

JJ is going to bust through $30 million a year as if it is rice paper.

And just wait until Darrisaw is up. He's already drawn praise as the second best LT in the league.

Untold tens of millions in dead cap.

The D needs an talent boost.

How people (not you) are having a come to Jesus moment regarding the pending UFA Cousins is beyond comprehension.

Been saying this for a year... IF WE CHOOSE TO DO ALL THE ABOVE, WE WILL HAVE TO START A QB ON A ROOKIE DEAL.

Post #: 1679

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 11:44:55 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Everything seems a go. Not sure when JJ will get done. But other than that - outside of injury replacement - we seem to be pretty set.

Big tweaks seem to be Flores on D and Mattison / Oliver / run game refocus on O.

O’Connel in year 2 vs the bounce of the ball in year one will be one critical factor.

I read somewhere we stand # 4 or 5 in least change in starters from last year. With a much more difficult schedule in theory.

I expect us to be better, definitely. Just not sure how much.

Its going to be another up and down wild ride, I think.

Good summation (by 'we seem to be pretty set' I assume set with what we have).

Agree about the Mattison/Oliver aspect to the run game. We had incredible strings of 3 and outs where we couldn't pick up a few yards. Granted the OL had something to do with that, but I hope Mattison continues to plow north-south as opposed to Cook's hesitation dances. And Oliver should be a big part of the run game.

#4-5 in least changes is surprising, guess the stability on offense more than balances out the changes on defense. Compared to the beginning of last year (which that metric may not be based on):
- Tonga
- Lowry
- Davenport
- Asamoah/Pace
- Murphy
- Evans
- Possibly Blackmon

My mistake, 7th. Still with the changes you mention ... its surprising.

I have no idea what Jason at Overthecap.com is using for his criteria ... he must view Tonga and Evans as returning starters ... questionable.

Jason_OTC@Jason_OTC
18h

Last one. Here are the teams running it back with the most similar rosters to 2022

1. Bengals/Bills- 75.9%
3. Ravens- 75.4%
4. Chargers- 75%
5. Jaguars- 73.8%
6. Commanders- 73.4%
7. Vikings- 72.9%
8. Dolphins- 72%
9. Giants- 70.9%
10. 49ers- 69.5%

Post #: 1680

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 11:44:58 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

Kwesi and KOC on the signing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK6EY80luLQ

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1681

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 11:45:44 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Of course Kwesi lets TJ set the market.

He’s not a good GM.

I am now convinced he is a HORRIBLE GM. I don't even think Rick would have gave him that much.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1682

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 11:47:28 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Ben Goessling
@BenGoessling
·
6m
Kwesi Adofo-Mensah said the #Vikings have agreed to terms with T.J. Hockenson on a contract extension.

-- bet the aches and pains suddenly got better ;)

I hate hearing that. I was hoping we would trade him. Or is this prior to trading him?

That's crazy KG - stop worrying about getting sucked back into cap hell and enjoy the ride

I don't even think Rick would have paid him that much.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1683

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 11:47:41 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
9s
PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL

HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE. Anything over 13 is too much. How can we afford to sign the other players we need to sign now. This one makes me sick.

Maybe if we weren't paying so much to a mediocre qb.

Well now we won't be able to pay that QB that you think is mediocre. He's as good as gone. So after this season JJ and Hock will be the highest paid WR and TE in the league with nobody to throw them the football. Good luck to JJ and Hock with Jaren Hall as their QB.

Oh no! The Vikings have to actually find a good young prospect on their 1st contract!

Post #: 1684

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 11:48:24 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28612
Status: offline

Since we gave up a 2nd rounder and change for Hock, I am glad that it didn't get into something where we eventually lost him w/o any return

Post #: 1685

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 11:48:43 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

Spotrac had Hock's fair value at $14.4M.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1686

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 11:49:10 AM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Ridiculous that he becomes the highest paid TE.

Better hope the salary cap goes up a ton.

Post #: 1687

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 11:49:27 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28612
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
9s
PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL

HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE. Anything over 13 is too much. How can we afford to sign the other players we need to sign now. This one makes me sick.

Maybe if we weren't paying so much to a mediocre qb.

Well now we won't be able to pay that QB that you think is mediocre. He's as good as gone. So after this season JJ and Hock will be the highest paid WR and TE in the league with nobody to throw them the football. Good luck to JJ and Hock with Jaren Hall as their QB.

Oh no! The Vikings have to actually find a good young prospect on their 1st contract!

LOL! Yeah, how do these other teams do it?

Post #: 1688

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 11:50:22 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
9s
PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL

HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE. Anything over 13 is too much. How can we afford to sign the other players we need to sign now. This one makes me sick.

Maybe if we weren't paying so much to a mediocre qb.

Well now we won't be able to pay that QB that you think is mediocre. He's as good as gone. So after this season JJ and Hock will be the highest paid WR and TE in the league with nobody to throw them the football. Good luck to JJ and Hock with Jaren Hall as their QB.

Oh no! The Vikings have to actually find a good young prospect on their 1st contract!

We got him I guess. Jaren Hall. Good luck with that. Even if we found one odds are at least 3 years for him to develop. So we will be paying JJ and Hock the highest WR and TE contract in the league and wasting them for the next 3 years MINIMUM.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1689

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 11:53:25 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28612
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Ridiculous that he becomes the highest paid TE.

Better hope the salary cap goes up a ton.

An increasing salary cap doesn't matter. He will still be on the books as expensive with money locked in. Meanwhile, all teams will have more to spend and increasing salaries will suck up the increase.

Another way to view it: say we had several overpriced contracts. In relative terms, we would have less to spend.

Post #: 1690

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 11:53:38 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
9s
PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL

HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE. Anything over 13 is too much. How can we afford to sign the other players we need to sign now. This one makes me sick.

Maybe if we weren't paying so much to a mediocre qb.

Well now we won't be able to pay that QB that you think is mediocre. He's as good as gone. So after this season JJ and Hock will be the highest paid WR and TE in the league with nobody to throw them the football. Good luck to JJ and Hock with Jaren Hall as their QB.

Oh no! The Vikings have to actually find a good young prospect on their 1st contract!

We got him I guess. Jaren Hall. Good luck with that. Even if we found one odds are at least 3 years for him to develop. So we will be paying JJ and Hock the highest WR and TE contract in the league and wasting them for the next 3 years MINIMUM.

Paying Cousins boatloads of money isn't the answer. Time to actually find a franchise qb. The time for being lazy will come to an end.

Post #: 1691

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 11:57:26 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28612
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
9s
PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL

HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE. Anything over 13 is too much. How can we afford to sign the other players we need to sign now. This one makes me sick.

Maybe if we weren't paying so much to a mediocre qb.

Well now we won't be able to pay that QB that you think is mediocre. He's as good as gone. So after this season JJ and Hock will be the highest paid WR and TE in the league with nobody to throw them the football. Good luck to JJ and Hock with Jaren Hall as their QB.

Oh no! The Vikings have to actually find a good young prospect on their 1st contract!

We got him I guess. Jaren Hall. Good luck with that. Even if we found one odds are at least 3 years for him to develop. So we will be paying JJ and Hock the highest WR and TE contract in the league and wasting them for the next 3 years MINIMUM.

What a crock that is totally devoid of logic. More and more, teams with QBs in their first couple of years are going deep into the playoffs. And one reason is they don't have huge salaries at QB which allows them to keep or acquire top tier players.

Post #: 1692

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 12:00:38 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28612
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
9s
PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL

HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE. Anything over 13 is too much. How can we afford to sign the other players we need to sign now. This one makes me sick.

Maybe if we weren't paying so much to a mediocre qb.

Well now we won't be able to pay that QB that you think is mediocre. He's as good as gone. So after this season JJ and Hock will be the highest paid WR and TE in the league with nobody to throw them the football. Good luck to JJ and Hock with Jaren Hall as their QB.

Oh no! The Vikings have to actually find a good young prospect on their 1st contract!

We got him I guess. Jaren Hall. Good luck with that. Even if we found one odds are at least 3 years for him to develop. So we will be paying JJ and Hock the highest WR and TE contract in the league and wasting them for the next 3 years MINIMUM.

Paying Cousins boatloads of money isn't the answer. Time to actually find a franchise qb. The time for being lazy will come to an end.

Exactly. Kwesi's most important draft pick, maybe forever, will be next April. He has to hit on it. I've advocated acquiring as many resources as possible to move up in the draft. He made a few trades, but they don't move the sticks much.

Post #: 1693

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 12:02:19 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
9s
PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL

HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE. Anything over 13 is too much. How can we afford to sign the other players we need to sign now. This one makes me sick.

Maybe if we weren't paying so much to a mediocre qb.

Well now we won't be able to pay that QB that you think is mediocre. He's as good as gone. So after this season JJ and Hock will be the highest paid WR and TE in the league with nobody to throw them the football. Good luck to JJ and Hock with Jaren Hall as their QB.

Oh no! The Vikings have to actually find a good young prospect on their 1st contract!

We got him I guess. Jaren Hall. Good luck with that. Even if we found one odds are at least 3 years for him to develop. So we will be paying JJ and Hock the highest WR and TE contract in the league and wasting them for the next 3 years MINIMUM.

Paying Cousins boatloads of money isn't the answer. Time to actually find a franchise qb. The time for being lazy will come to an end.

In case you hadn't noticed we aren't paying Cousins Boatloads of money. I think he is currently the 14th highest paid QB in the league. An adequate replacement will cost more and a draft pick or Jaren Hall are likely to take at least 3 years wasting Hock and JJ.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1694

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 12:07:18 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77939
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
9s
PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL

HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE. Anything over 13 is too much. How can we afford to sign the other players we need to sign now. This one makes me sick.

Maybe if we weren't paying so much to a mediocre qb.

Well now we won't be able to pay that QB that you think is mediocre. He's as good as gone. So after this season JJ and Hock will be the highest paid WR and TE in the league with nobody to throw them the football. Good luck to JJ and Hock with Jaren Hall as their QB.

Oh no! The Vikings have to actually find a good young prospect on their 1st contract!

We got him I guess. Jaren Hall. Good luck with that. Even if we found one odds are at least 3 years for him to develop. So we will be paying JJ and Hock the highest WR and TE contract in the league and wasting them for the next 3 years MINIMUM.

What a crock that is totally devoid of logic. More and more, teams with QBs in their first couple of years are going deep into the playoffs. And one reason is they don't have huge salaries at QB which allows them to keep or acquire top tier players.

Absolutely.

The days of QBs needing 2-3 years before they can be any good is as out of touch as trying to win by running the ball and stopping the run.

Post #: 1695

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 12:07:37 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19462
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

Exactly. Kwesi's most important draft pick, maybe forever, will be next April. He has to hit on it.

100% agree. I'll hold off on calling him good/bad because it's still early but the early returns aren't looking great.

What "should" seal his fate is how he handles the QB moving forward. He has 3 options:

extend Cousins
sign a bridge guy
draft the long term and hope

All 3 have very distinct flaws.

Post #: 1696

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 12:07:38 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28612
Status: offline

In case you hadn't noticed we aren't paying Cousins Boatloads of money. I think he is currently the 14th highest paid QB in the league.

In case you hadn't noticed, Cousins' salary is lower on the books because TWENTY EIGHT POINT FIVE MILLION DOLLARS of his salary was stashed away as dead cap in void years. That impacts our salary cap.

Geez, people can't put the simplest things together.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 8/31/2023 12:09:04 PM >

Post #: 1697

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 12:09:52 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
9s
PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL

HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE. Anything over 13 is too much. How can we afford to sign the other players we need to sign now. This one makes me sick.

Maybe if we weren't paying so much to a mediocre qb.

Well now we won't be able to pay that QB that you think is mediocre. He's as good as gone. So after this season JJ and Hock will be the highest paid WR and TE in the league with nobody to throw them the football. Good luck to JJ and Hock with Jaren Hall as their QB.

Oh no! The Vikings have to actually find a good young prospect on their 1st contract!

We got him I guess. Jaren Hall. Good luck with that. Even if we found one odds are at least 3 years for him to develop. So we will be paying JJ and Hock the highest WR and TE contract in the league and wasting them for the next 3 years MINIMUM.

What a crock that is totally devoid of logic. More and more, teams with QBs in their first couple of years are going deep into the playoffs. And one reason is they don't have huge salaries at QB which allows them to keep or acquire top tier players.

Absolutely.

The days of QBs needing 2-3 years before they can be any good is as out of touch as trying to win by running the ball and stopping the run.

Yes DL you will always take the opposite side of me no matter what I say. If I said Love is good you'd argue why it's bad. Our chances of getting an adequate QB in the draft next year or in free agency are close to zero.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1698

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 12:12:21 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Exactly. Kwesi's most important draft pick, maybe forever, will be next April. He has to hit on it.

100% agree. I'll hold off on calling him good/bad because it's still early but the early returns aren't looking great.

What "should" seal his fate is how he handles the QB moving forward. He has 3 options:

extend Cousins
sign a bridge guy
draft the long term and hope

All 3 have very distinct flaws.

We can't extend Cousins unless for some reason he decides to accept way below market value. Any bridge guy we get would suck. Assuming we have a good season this year what QB can we draft that would be likely to come in and play well in his rookie season. This is the darkest day in Vikings history since the Herschel Walker trade.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1699

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2023 12:16:36 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28612
Status: offline

https://overthecap.com/player/kirk-cousins/1443

If we wrapped Cousins void year money into his low 2023 salary, on paper it would show he is getting $49 million this year. Pretty much at the top or top three.

Post #: 1700