quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
9s
PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL

Wow. I didn’t think he’d get that much money from us. And JJ is expected to set the market with his upcoming deal.

All that is nothing.

JJ is going to bust through $30 million a year as if it is rice paper.

And just wait until Darrisaw is up. He's already drawn praise as the second best LT in the league.

Untold tens of millions in dead cap.

The D needs an talent boost.

How people (not you) are having a come to Jesus moment regarding the pending UFA Cousins is beyond comprehension.

Been saying this for a year... IF WE CHOOSE TO DO ALL THE ABOVE, WE WILL HAVE TO START A QB ON A ROOKIE DEAL.

It might work. It might not work. But if it works... The payoff could be a Super Bowl. If it doesn't work... Who cares? One-and-done in the playoffs? I'm over it.

Who are we going to draft that is going to come in and set the NFL on fire his rookie year? We won't get a shot at Caleb. So who is it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
9s
PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL

Wow. I didn’t think he’d get that much money from us. And JJ is expected to set the market with his upcoming deal.

All that is nothing.

JJ is going to bust through $30 million a year as if it is rice paper.

And just wait until Darrisaw is up. He's already drawn praise as the second best LT in the league.

Untold tens of millions in dead cap.

The D needs an talent boost.

How people (not you) are having a come to Jesus moment regarding the pending UFA Cousins is beyond comprehension.

Been saying this for a year... IF WE CHOOSE TO DO ALL THE ABOVE, WE WILL HAVE TO START A QB ON A ROOKIE DEAL.

It might work. It might not work. But if it works... The payoff could be a Super Bowl. If it doesn't work... Who cares? One-and-done in the playoffs? I'm over it.

Who are we going to draft that is going to come in and set the NFL on fire his rookie year? We won't get a shot at Caleb. So who is it?

Cousins hasn't set the world on fire so why is that a requirement?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Here's a list of starting NFL QBs that no team "tanked for":

Patrick Mahomes #10
Josh Allen #7
Justin Herbert #6
Lamar Jackson #32
Jalen Hurts #53
Dak Prescott #135
Aaron Rodgers #24
Tom Brady #199
Deshaun Watson #12
Kirk Cousins #102
Ryan Tannehill #8
Russell Wilson #75
Geno Smith #39
Daniel Jones #6
Derek Carr #36
Mac Jones #15
Kenny Pickett #20

Of these, four have won a Super Bowl and I'd say about half could have a chance at winning one (or a multilple).

QBs that may have been "tanked for"

Bryce Young
CJ Stroud
Anthony Richardson
Joe Burrow
Tua
Kyler Murray
Matt Stafford
Jared Goff
Baker Mayfield
Carson Wentz
Andrew Luck
RGIII
Mitch Trubisky
Trevor Lawrence
Zach Wilson
Marcus Mariota
Trey Lance
Jameis Winston
Blake Bortles

Clearly there is no need to "tank" although if you're guy is going to go in the top five and you want to trade assets to get him don't let me stop you. Otherwise it appears a Super Bowl QB can come from any spot in the first round.

Of those QBs in the first group I like the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th ones. The first three were drafted earlier in the draft than the Vikings will be picking. Brady is retired and others are washed up. I guess we need to get pick 53 and it's a lock we get a Franchise QB.
A Super Bowl QB can come from the 6th round. I know there's at least one that did. If you're banking on being the next team to draft one good luck with that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Davenport signs for $13 million. Half of his salary is parked in a void year for cap purposes. Nary a peep.

Hock signs for $3 million over market value and the sky is falling for one poster. This is and will be fun to watch!

It actually isn't 3M over market value, it's 100K.

Darren Waller signed his deal last year that pays him 17M. Hock's average is 17.1M.

And while Hock makes more than Kelce, Andrews, etc., he won't for long. The contract is a good and fair one.

Argue with your mom if you (anyone in general) feel different.

Hock is not in the same realm as Waller at all. Waller has been doing it for years and averages more than 8 yards per reception. Spotrac had Hock's fair market value at 14.4.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Davenport signs for $13 million. Half of his salary is parked in a void year for cap purposes. Nary a peep.

Hock signs for $3 million over market value and the sky is falling for one poster. This is and will be fun to watch!

It actually isn't 3M over market value, it's 100K.

Darren Waller signed his deal last year that pays him 17M. Hock's average is 17.1M.

And while Hock makes more than Kelce, Andrews, etc., he won't for long. The contract is a good and fair one.

Argue with your mom if you (anyone in general) feel different.

Hock is not in the same realm as Waller at all. Waller has been doing it for years and averages more than 8 yards per reception. Spotrac had Hock's fair market value at 14.4.

You sure about that? Darren Waller's stats in 2021 and 2022.

2021 - 55 rec 665 yards 2 TDs
2022 - 28 rec 388 yards 3 TDs

You might want to adjust your thought process. Then again, had you actually looked at Spotrac for game stats rather than what they told you what Hock was worth, the bucket of water that represents your argument would actually have a bottom. As it stands, you're walking around, holding a hole with a handle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

SKOR North
@SKORNorth
·
9s
PAY-DAY: #Vikings TE T.J. Hockenson is now the highest-paid tight end in the NFL, signing a four-year $68.5 million contract extension with $42.5 million guaranteed. #SKOL

Wow. I didn’t think he’d get that much money from us. And JJ is expected to set the market with his upcoming deal.

All that is nothing.

JJ is going to bust through $30 million a year as if it is rice paper.

And just wait until Darrisaw is up. He's already drawn praise as the second best LT in the league.

Untold tens of millions in dead cap.

The D needs an talent boost.

How people (not you) are having a come to Jesus moment regarding the pending UFA Cousins is beyond comprehension.

Been saying this for a year... IF WE CHOOSE TO DO ALL THE ABOVE, WE WILL HAVE TO START A QB ON A ROOKIE DEAL.

It might work. It might not work. But if it works... The payoff could be a Super Bowl. If it doesn't work... Who cares? One-and-done in the playoffs? I'm over it.

Who are we going to draft that is going to come in and set the NFL on fire his rookie year? We won't get a shot at Caleb. So who is it?

Cousins hasn't set the world on fire so why is that a requirement?

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Here's a list of starting NFL QBs that no team "tanked for":

Patrick Mahomes #10
Josh Allen #7
Justin Herbert #6
Lamar Jackson #32
Jalen Hurts #53
Dak Prescott #135
Aaron Rodgers #24
Tom Brady #199
Deshaun Watson #12
Kirk Cousins #102
Ryan Tannehill #8
Russell Wilson #75
Geno Smith #39
Daniel Jones #6
Derek Carr #36
Mac Jones #15
Kenny Pickett #20

Of these, four have won a Super Bowl and I'd say about half could have a chance at winning one (or a multilple).

QBs that may have been "tanked for"

Bryce Young
CJ Stroud
Anthony Richardson
Joe Burrow
Tua
Kyler Murray
Matt Stafford
Jared Goff
Baker Mayfield
Carson Wentz
Andrew Luck
RGIII
Mitch Trubisky
Trevor Lawrence
Zach Wilson
Marcus Mariota
Trey Lance
Jameis Winston
Blake Bortles

Clearly there is no need to "tank" although if you're guy is going to go in the top five and you want to trade assets to get him don't let me stop you. Otherwise it appears a Super Bowl QB can come from any spot in the first round.

Of those QBs in the first group I like the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th ones. The first three were drafted earlier in the draft than the Vikings will be picking. Brady is retired and others are washed up. I guess we need to get pick 53 and it's a lock we get a Franchise QB.
A Super Bowl QB can come from the 6th round. I know there's at least one that did. If you're banking on being the next team to draft one good luck with that.

One of the points I was trying to get across was that, at least in some point in time, every name in that first list was an unknown. Fast forward in time and now they are household names at starting QB. Yes, the list is bigger for those drafted and never made it. We still have to try though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Davenport signs for $13 million. Half of his salary is parked in a void year for cap purposes. Nary a peep.

Hock signs for $3 million over market value and the sky is falling for one poster. This is and will be fun to watch!

It actually isn't 3M over market value, it's 100K.

Darren Waller signed his deal last year that pays him 17M. Hock's average is 17.1M.

And while Hock makes more than Kelce, Andrews, etc., he won't for long. The contract is a good and fair one.

Argue with your mom if you (anyone in general) feel different.

Hock is not in the same realm as Waller at all. Waller has been doing it for years and averages more than 8 yards per reception. Spotrac had Hock's fair market value at 14.4.

You sure about that? Darren Waller's stats in 2021 and 2022.

2021 - 55 rec 665 yards 2 TDs
2022 - 28 rec 388 yards 3 TDs

You might want to adjust your thought process. Then again, had you actually looked at Spotrac for game stats rather than what they told you what Hock was worth, the bucket of water that represents your argument would actually have a bottom. As it stands, you're walking around, holding a hole with a handle.

Waller is 30 years old and has had only 2 good years in his career (2019 and 2020).

Waller (30), Career: 8 Years, 74 Games, 298 Receptions, 3572 Yards, 19 TDs.
Hock (25), Career: 4 Years, 57 Games, 246 Receptions, 2587 Yards, 18 TDs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Davenport signs for $13 million. Half of his salary is parked in a void year for cap purposes. Nary a peep.

Hock signs for $3 million over market value and the sky is falling for one poster. This is and will be fun to watch!

It actually isn't 3M over market value, it's 100K.

Darren Waller signed his deal last year that pays him 17M. Hock's average is 17.1M.

And while Hock makes more than Kelce, Andrews, etc., he won't for long. The contract is a good and fair one.

Argue with your mom if you (anyone in general) feel different.

Hock is not in the same realm as Waller at all. Waller has been doing it for years and averages more than 8 yards per reception. Spotrac had Hock's fair market value at 14.4.

You sure about that? Darren Waller's stats in 2021 and 2022.

2021 - 55 rec 665 yards 2 TDs
2022 - 28 rec 388 yards 3 TDs

You might want to adjust your thought process. Then again, had you actually looked at Spotrac for game stats rather than what they told you what Hock was worth, the bucket of water that represents your argument would actually have a bottom. As it stands, you're walking around, holding a hole with a handle.

Waller is 30 years old and has had only 2 good years in his career (2019 and 2020).

Waller (30), Career: 8 Years, 74 Games, 298 Receptions, 3572 Yards, 19 TDs.
Hock (25), Career: 4 Years, 57 Games, 246 Receptions, 2587 Yards, 18 TDs.

OK I admit I was going off when I last watched Waller and he was amazing. He still averaged 12 and 14 yards per reception those last two years to Hocks 8 while with us. He must have been injured last year or he would have had more than 28 receptions. That said seems he's not as good as I thought. I also admit to being pissed off about Hock and his fake injuries. Hock's receptions went way up when he joined us as we gave him a huge number or short yardage targets. I still think Hock is a very poor way to invest our limited salary cap.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Davenport signs for $13 million. Half of his salary is parked in a void year for cap purposes. Nary a peep.

Hock signs for $3 million over market value and the sky is falling for one poster. This is and will be fun to watch!

It actually isn't 3M over market value, it's 100K.

Darren Waller signed his deal last year that pays him 17M. Hock's average is 17.1M.

And while Hock makes more than Kelce, Andrews, etc., he won't for long. The contract is a good and fair one.

Argue with your mom if you (anyone in general) feel different.

Hock is not in the same realm as Waller at all. Waller has been doing it for years and averages more than 8 yards per reception. Spotrac had Hock's fair market value at 14.4.

You sure about that? Darren Waller's stats in 2021 and 2022.

2021 - 55 rec 665 yards 2 TDs
2022 - 28 rec 388 yards 3 TDs

You might want to adjust your thought process. Then again, had you actually looked at Spotrac for game stats rather than what they told you what Hock was worth, the bucket of water that represents your argument would actually have a bottom. As it stands, you're walking around, holding a hole with a handle.

Waller is 30 years old and has had only 2 good years in his career (2019 and 2020).

Waller (30), Career: 8 Years, 74 Games, 298 Receptions, 3572 Yards, 19 TDs.
Hock (25), Career: 4 Years, 57 Games, 246 Receptions, 2587 Yards, 18 TDs.

OK I admit I was going off when I last watched Waller and he was amazing. He still averaged 12 and 14 yards per reception those last two years to Hocks 8 while with us. He must have been injured last year or he would have had more than 28 receptions. That said seems he's not as good as I thought. I also admit to being pissed off about Hock and his fake injuries. Hock's receptions went way up when he joined us as we gave him a huge number or short yardage targets. I still think Hock is a very poor way to invest our limited salary cap.

Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem.

Yup.

He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us.

He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem.

Yup.

He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us.

He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more.

Det. wishes it had our prob at receivers right now is my guess

- and wouldnt O'Connell problem as well?

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem.

Yup.

He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us.

He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more.

Det. wishes it had our prob at receivers right now is my guess

- and wouldnt O'Connell problem as well?

Absolutely. I like him a lot, but I was more than a little underwhelmed with his playcalling. And that was compounded by Kirk being a guy who will not go "off script".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem.

Yup.

He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us.

He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more.

Det. wishes it had our prob at receivers right now is my guess

- and wouldnt O'Connell problem as well?

Absolutely. I like him a lot, but I was more than a little underwhelmed with his playcalling. And that was compounded by Kirk being a guy who will not go "off script".

Well, I have to believe year 2 will be much better - I mean, if there isn't a lot of growth between year 1 and 2 you might as well switch coaches right now

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nate

I like Hock, but dang that's a load of cash. I'd rather invest in WR/OL and eventually our QBOTF (not KFC) than pay top dollar for a TE, but, oh well, at least we keep that weapon locked up for a while. Once the other top TEs get paid I'm sure it'll eventually look like a great contract.

In any case, I'd say I'm as clueless to how this year will go as any year I can remember in the last decade. The pessimist Viking in me thinks we'll regress to 8 or 9 wins. That's a tough schedule and I think last year we benefited from a refreshing new batch of positivity after the bitter last years of Zimmer. I think that message will be a little less new this year and we'll lose some of those close ones. I hope the D is better, I like the scheme loads better but we didn't gain much talent and lost a lot of experience. I still think we get bullied in the trenches and have to blitz a ton more to stop the run and get pressure on the passer, which exposes our really young secondary. Offensively, our IOL is still weak, and I'm flabbergasted as to why we didn't go for some competition there. Continuity can be great but why would anyone want to continue with that? I'm not a 12 personnel fan, and think our 2TE sets will bring more crowding of the line and be hard to run against and will overmatch our line. I think we're at our best in 11 personnel, particularly when we're behind because we open it up more and look downfield to score rather than run clock and wear the other team down.

There's always hope to start the year though. We still have an above average offense if we can keep Kirk upright and the defense could pleasantly surprise us. Sometimes coaching can do wonders. I hope KoC improves along with the team, he's very likeable to say the least. KAM, I'm souring on but maybe he'll grow into it too. That 2022 draft is looking worse and worse, we'll see how 2023 pans out.

Here's to a fun year though, maybe we'll go for another fun ride like last year, even if it did end like usual. Cheers all and SKOL Vikes!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem.

Yup.

He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us.

He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more.

Det. wishes it had our prob at receivers right now is my guess

- and wouldnt O'Connell problem as well?

Absolutely. I like him a lot, but I was more than a little underwhelmed with his playcalling. And that was compounded by Kirk being a guy who will not go "off script".

Well, I have to believe year 2 will be much better - I mean, if there isn't a lot of growth between year 1 and 2 you might as well switch coaches right now

Or switch QBs. KOC is wearing a ring. KC, not so much.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem.

Yup.

He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us.

He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more.

Det. wishes it had our prob at receivers right now is my guess

- and wouldnt O'Connell problem as well?

Absolutely. I like him a lot, but I was more than a little underwhelmed with his playcalling. And that was compounded by Kirk being a guy who will not go "off script".

Well, I have to believe year 2 will be much better - I mean, if there isn't a lot of growth between year 1 and 2 you might as well switch coaches right now

Or switch QBs. KOC is wearing a ring. KC, not so much.

Didn't call the plays to get that ring through did he?

My wife has a first cousin who worked as a PR person for the Bulls for years. She has as many rings and Jordon does.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem.

Yup.

He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us.

He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more.

Det. wishes it had our prob at receivers right now is my guess

- and wouldnt O'Connell problem as well?

Absolutely. I like him a lot, but I was more than a little underwhelmed with his playcalling. And that was compounded by Kirk being a guy who will not go "off script".

Well, I have to believe year 2 will be much better - I mean, if there isn't a lot of growth between year 1 and 2 you might as well switch coaches right now

Or switch QBs. KOC is wearing a ring. KC, not so much.

Didn't call the plays to get that ring through did he?

My wife has a first cousin who worked as a PR person for the Bulls for years. She has as many rings and Jordon does.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem.

Yup.

He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us.

He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more.

Det. wishes it had our prob at receivers right now is my guess

- and wouldnt O'Connell problem as well?

Absolutely. I like him a lot, but I was more than a little underwhelmed with his playcalling. And that was compounded by Kirk being a guy who will not go "off script".

Well, I have to believe year 2 will be much better - I mean, if there isn't a lot of growth between year 1 and 2 you might as well switch coaches right now

Or switch QBs. KOC is wearing a ring. KC, not so much.

Didn't call the plays to get that ring through did he?

My wife has a first cousin who worked as a PR person for the Bulls for years. She has as many rings and Jordon does.

As one broken record speaking to another broken record ...

Apples and oranges. Your wife's cousin was a bystander, KOC was very involved in how the offense performed even if he didn't call the plays.

How much did he contribute? Not really sure. But he gets a lot of credit from the head coach and the league though. And Vikings fans when it suits them.

And how well did Stafford do after O'Connell left?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Hocks low yards per catch is a Kirk problem.

Yup.

He went from 15.2 with Detroit to 8.7 with us.

He averaged 11 for his 4 years with Detroit, so he's definitely capable of stretching the field more.

Det. wishes it had our prob at receivers right now is my guess

- and wouldnt O'Connell problem as well?

Absolutely. I like him a lot, but I was more than a little underwhelmed with his playcalling. And that was compounded by Kirk being a guy who will not go "off script".

Well, I have to believe year 2 will be much better - I mean, if there isn't a lot of growth between year 1 and 2 you might as well switch coaches right now

Or switch QBs. KOC is wearing a ring. KC, not so much.

Didn't call the plays to get that ring through did he?

My wife has a first cousin who worked as a PR person for the Bulls for years. She has as many rings and Jordon does.

No, but Cousins has not led a single team beyond one playoff win over 11 years, has he? Fail!

Bottomline is KOC is signed. Conversely, your love fest QB will be a UFA unless the regime strikes out in a replacement and there is a come to Jesus meeting over a tremendously lower salary negotiation.