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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 12:22:01 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

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Phil, Scott, Bill, Ricky etc none of this is personal. We all want the same thing in the end.
Post #: 2226
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 12:28:15 PM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

First game is always ugly.

Is that even valid? After all, the opponent has the same set of circumstances. Plus this season we were in the vaunted year two of the system while TB had a new OC, new QB, and new scheme. We had a new DC, but the same basic 3-4. And we were at home.

So I say that is a BS-type excuse.


There is no excuse.

Don't turn the ball over three times.

Don't take your foot off their neck when you have them down.

Don't give them opportunities.

Generate turnovers.

We should have won. We were absolutely bitch stomping them in the first half except for the turnovers. Just like Saints/Vikings NFCCG in 2009.

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Post #: 2227
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 12:35:04 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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Another thing I've seen since the game's conclusion is "the defense wore down in the 4th."

How? Time of possession and number of plays were similar. Saw a bit on the defense being light. Like a bunch of fast-twitchers vs a bunch of heavy guys slogging around? Was it hot on the field?

And even if it did wear out due to, I presume, conditioning, isn't that on Flores?
Post #: 2228
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 12:37:52 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Another thing I've seen since the game's conclusion is "the defense wore down in the 4th."

How? Time of possession and number of plays were similar. Saw a bit on the defense being light. Like a bunch of fast-twitchers vs a bunch of heavy guys slogging around? Was it hot on the field?

And even if it did wear out due to, I presume, conditioning, isn't that on Flores?

If that game wore them out then it's going to be a long season for the defense
Post #: 2229
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 12:37:54 PM   
Brad H


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Another thing I've seen since the game's conclusion is "the defense wore down in the 4th."

How? Time of possession and number of plays were similar. Saw a bit on the defense being light. Like a bunch of fast-twitchers vs a bunch of heavy guys slogging around? Was it hot on the field?

And even if it did wear out due to, I presume, conditioning, isn't that on Flores?

They lost the game because the quarterback was a turnover machine. It's hard to win games that way.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 12:46:41 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

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O'Neill restructures freeing up 10M.

JJ extended? Risner signing?

or both?
Post #: 2231
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 12:50:54 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Another thing I've seen since the game's conclusion is "the defense wore down in the 4th."

How? Time of possession and number of plays were similar. Saw a bit on the defense being light. Like a bunch of fast-twitchers vs a bunch of heavy guys slogging around? Was it hot on the field?

And even if it did wear out due to, I presume, conditioning, isn't that on Flores?

They lost the game because the quarterback was a turnover machine. It's hard to win games that way.


I'm the last guy to defend Cousins, but Ingram knocking the ball out of the C-QB exchange? Osborn basically getting stripped. I give Cousins that bad interception for sure. Probably the fumble from the hit due to putting himself in that situation when he should have known or quickly sensed pressure was coming.

The posts were more about elaborating on some other type of reasons/excuses I saw posted as to why we lost. I disagree with you but am not going to further dissect the pivotal Cousins plays.
Post #: 2232
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 12:51:56 PM   
Trekgeekscott


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So let's review the draft picks Kwesi has made.

2023 Jordan Addison - I don't dislike the pick. He is talented (but a bit undersized imo) My biggest problem here is that there were a couple of higher rated QBs in the draft at this slot and we passed on them. But so far Addison does have a couple catches and a TD.

Mehki Blackmon - played sparingly as a rookie in game 1. but did make a solo tackle. The stats sheet doesn't show a pass defensed. thought I saw one. maybe that was someone else. But he did make one play. I am trying to find how many snaps he played.

Jay Ward - Played on ST and made one of the bigger **** ups in the game. So far not so good, but again. It's only one game and if he learned from that mistake and never makes it again...

Jaquelin Roy - made no plays...don't even know if he suited up for the game.

Dwayne McBride - Practice squad.

2022
Lewis Cine - Broke his leg early in the season, compound fracture.

Andrew Booth Jr, I have a problem with this pick. He's super athletic (so was Joe Webb) but he has a problem with getting injured A LOT. and it was no secret that he had this problem. They drafted him way too high IMHO. Probably should have avoided him altogether. But maybe he will get an opportunity this year and surprise us. Not much hope here though.

Ed Ingram. Well he's started 18 games now. and looked about as inept as any G in the NFL.

Brian Asamoah - looked good in his chances in 2022. Got hurt in training camp this year. Made a couple tackles in Sunday's loss. Probably already passed by Ivan Pace on the Depth chart but worth keeping an eye on.

Akayleb Evans - Played a little rookie season, then concussions took a toll. seems to have earned significant playing time this year, made 4 solo tackles and had 2 PDs in this game (probably who I saw when I thought it was Blackmon)

Esezi Otomewo - somebody call me if the ever does anything for the Jaguars

Ty Chandler - Won the RB2 job this year (kind of by default)

Vederian Lowe - traded, the Patriots saw something worth giving us a low draft pick for, so not a total loss

Jalen Nailor - Great special teamer with big play on ST sunday. and makes the most out of on field opportunities.

Nick Muse - Looks good in preseason against scrubs and second teamers in vanilla defenses...but impresses so much that they keep acquiring other TEs.


So considering only two of these guys isn't on at least the practice squad...

I wouldn't say it's terrible. There are certainly pieces here that aren't useless and yes STs is useful and good if you have an guy drafted in the late rounds like Nailor being a big contributor.

_____________________________

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Post #: 2233
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 12:52:19 PM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

O'Neill restructures freeing up 10M.

JJ extended? Risner signing?

or both?


More likely neither

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”
Post #: 2234
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 12:54:48 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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My concerns for this season in priority order:
- Overall team direction, purpose, etc in the outyears.
- The right GM and HC.
- Drafts.
- Contracts, cap, etc.
- Free agency.
- Bad injuries, to include repeated concussions.
- Outcome of the games.
- Pivotal plays in a game.
Post #: 2235
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 1:16:16 PM   
Ricky J


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I wouldn't even worry about what QB leads us next year. I'm more worried about what GM leads us in to next year. My stomach is getting Kwesi about this regime.



They are not going to fire KAM.

Get used to the Kwesi feelings

No they're not. This organization is completely dysfunctional.

Not to mention their fans

So I'm responsible for 60 years of not getting it done? 🤔

Come on, man! Nothing I've said has been a shot at anyone. Maybe making fun at the reaction and hoping it's way over the top but nothing is personal or directed at one person. I mean just bc you're one of the most vocal yesterday and today .... <another wink>

re: We all want the same thing in the end. -- absolutely
Post #: 2236
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 1:21:25 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

Mehki Blackmon - played sparingly as a rookie in game 1. but did make a solo tackle. The stats sheet doesn't show a pass defensed. thought I saw one. maybe that was someone else. But he did make one play. I am trying to find how many snaps he played.



15 on defense. 0 on ST.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/202309100min.htm#all_home_snap_counts
Post #: 2237
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 1:26:48 PM  1 votes
Richard Neussendorfer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I wouldn't even worry about what QB leads us next year. I'm more worried about what GM leads us in to next year. My stomach is getting Kwesi about this regime.



They are not going to fire KAM.

Get used to the Kwesi feelings

No they're not. This organization is completely dysfunctional.

Not to mention their fans

So I'm responsible for 60 years of not getting it done? 🤔

Come on, man! Nothing I've said has been a shot at anyone. Maybe making fun at the reaction and hoping it's way over the top but nothing is personal or directed at one person. I mean just bc you're one of the most vocal yesterday and today .... <another wink>

re: We all want the same thing in the end. -- absolutely

You're good Ricky. I'm just ready to move in another direction after this season. I'm speaking about the qb position specifically. Hopefully now that I've said that Cousins starts shredding it.
Post #: 2238
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 1:54:03 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

My concerns for this season in priority order:
- Overall team direction, purpose, etc in the outyears.
- The right GM and HC.
- Drafts.
- Contracts, cap, etc.
- Free agency.
- Bad injuries, to include repeated concussions.
- Outcome of the games.
- Pivotal plays in a game.

Sounds more like a big picture view. With future indicators.

As if the season is gone already.

My approach is more pragmatic and still in ‘the now.’ I’m trying to decide on which limb to sacrifice to the ferocious talon of the eagle, so I can scurry away and live for game 3.
Post #: 2239
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 1:54:20 PM   
Daniel Lee Young

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I wouldn't even worry about what QB leads us next year. I'm more worried about what GM leads us in to next year. My stomach is getting Kwesi about this regime.



They are not going to fire KAM.

Get used to the Kwesi feelings

No they're not. This organization is completely dysfunctional.

Not to mention their fans

So I'm responsible for 60 years of not getting it done? 🤔

Come on, man! Nothing I've said has been a shot at anyone. Maybe making fun at the reaction and hoping it's way over the top but nothing is personal or directed at one person. I mean just bc you're one of the most vocal yesterday and today .... <another wink>

re: We all want the same thing in the end. -- absolutely

You're good Ricky. I'm just ready to move in another direction after this season. I'm speaking about the qb position specifically. Hopefully now that I've said that Cousins starts shredding it.

I wii be shocked if he does..

With the offensive talent and a medium good defense, we should get a lot more easy wins and fewer nail biters..

Sunday was a shoot yourself iin the foot effort, exacerbated by fn Ingram..

I sick of him stepping on his QB..

Anything would be better.

Throw past the sticks, especially on third down, and don’t throw into double coverage in the shrunken field of the red zone.

It’s not rocket science.

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 9/12/2023 1:55:39 PM >


_____________________________

**** you all.
Post #: 2240
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 2:05:17 PM   
David Levine


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Cousins seemed even slower of foot Sunday as well.

It seems a few times a year he shows a surprising "burst" on a few of his runs and gets more than you'd think.

On his one run Sunday, there was no burst...
Post #: 2241
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 2:20:51 PM   
Mark C. Johnson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson


I"m open to any idea that brings an excellent, top tier QB to this team. No to Cousins. So, if it's not Cousins, then how do we acquire the best possible player at the most important posiiton?


Who are those options.

All the good ones have signed big extentions.

Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert....

Who will be available?


The best option would be to draft one. There are pros and cons to doing so, but there's zero point at bringing Cousins back. To date, he's failed to win a Super Bowl. That's the only goal that matters to me. Resigning him accomplishes nothing other than perhaps finishing every season with a mediocre record. Other teams have managed to draft good quarterbacks. There will be growing pains doing so but I'd rather have a shot a Super Bowl versus going with a guy who has shown he can't get the job done.
Post #: 2242
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 2:28:31 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson


I"m open to any idea that brings an excellent, top tier QB to this team. No to Cousins. So, if it's not Cousins, then how do we acquire the best possible player at the most important posiiton?


Who are those options.

All the good ones have signed big extentions.

Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert....

Who will be available?


The best option would be to draft one. There are pros and cons to doing so, but there's zero point at bringing Cousins back. To date, he's failed to win a Super Bowl. That's the only goal that matters to me. Resigning him accomplishes nothing other than perhaps finishing every season with a mediocre record. Other teams have managed to draft good quarterbacks. There will be growing pains doing so but I'd rather have a shot a Super Bowl versus going with a guy who has shown he can't get the job done.


Yup.

Cousins is who he is at this point.

35 years old, in his 12th season (9th as a starter). 143 games, 138 starts.

1-4-0 Playoff record. He's been accurate (67%) and safe (1 INT), but averages just 210 yards and 1 TD per game.
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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 2:30:41 PM   
Pauldiercks1

 

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Just remember. We lost to the Bucs! After this week we will be 0-2. Right on my schedule. The more losses the better for the Vikings Super Bowl chances.

60 years yes! Let's try something different for once. In the NFL there's incredible value in each loss if you are not a contender. We are not a contender!!
Post #: 2244
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 2:34:13 PM   
Mark C. Johnson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

Hi Talkvikes crew. Thought I'd chime in some this year. Hope that's okay! Yes, you could end up with a Mahomes or a Mayfield. Does that mean you don't draft a QB high in the first round? Of course not. The question seems to be should the team trade JJ to acquire picks and take a shot at one of the top QB's next draft? JJ is the most gifted receiver in the NFL, no question. He'll cost a fortune to sign to his next contract. We've had Moss, Carter, Diggs and now Jefferson to name a few of the standout receivers the team has had. Zero Super Bowl appearances with any of them. Their fault? No, of course not.

I'd trade JJ at the end of the season IF I determined that the overall talent on the roster is not capable of making it to the Super Bowl. Having the best receiver in the NFL doesn't matter if the team overall isn't good enough to make it to the Super Bowl. Bottom line...would you rather have the best receiver in football or a true star at QB? Giving up JJ would be a very hard decision. Obviously, you could screw up the draft and get another Ponder, but you could also get the next great QB.



Wow

We lost ONE game and now the calls to trade JJ are surfacing.

He is one of the top 5 players in the NFL. You don't trade talent like that unless you get a king's ransom. You don't actively shop them either. You build around them. He is ESTABLISHED talent. He has ESTABLISHED himself as one of the best in the game. You don't trade them for the crapshoot that a draftpick can be.

JJ is here at least the next few years. This year. Next year on 5th year option and then we can franchise him two more years after that. Why on Earth would anybody actively shop him unless he is totally disgruntled, which he isn't?


In fairness the question of trading JJ for multiple #1's has been around for a while. The idea is give Hou/AZ (or whomever) multiple 1's to get the #1 overall and taking William's. I'm not advocating it but I see the logic.



I would rather we find another way to secure a top pick, and have a superstud like JJ HERE for them to throw to and gain confidence earlier in their career.


I agree that I'd rather find another way, but the problem is there are not a lot of alternatives. A terrible record this year would allow the team to draft in the top 5. This season would suck but at least we'd have the draft to look forward to. That's one possible alternative. Re-sign Cousins...that's another way, but he's failed to get to the Super Bowl so that doesn't seem like a good move. Bring in a free agent...have to pay him which reduces the ability to sign other top players, including JJ. Give up multiple No. 1 picks in future years to move up. Well, that's an option but this team lacks the talent/depth to go without future 1st round picks. Trade a top player to acquire multiple No. 1 picks into the future...that's the "JJ Option". There may be other options, but one thing I"m certain about and that is it's WAY PAST TIME for drafting a true star at the position.



I am of the belief that we should be drafting a QB EVERY YEAR. Sometimes high, sometimes low, but always drafting a guy and trying to develope them. Maybe you get lucky and find another Tom Brady in the 6th round or Brock Purdy in the 7th, but the more you draft at the most important position on the field the better chance you have to find the gem. the diamond in the rough. the longterm leader you've needed for nearly two decades.


While that's a valid plan, we have failed to consistently do that for years and the guys we drafted have never developed. Absent re-signing Cousins, there will only be Mullins and the BYU guy on the roster. The time of kicking the can down the road has ended. Drafting a 5/6/7th round QB next year and the year after without having a true starting QB on the team will not yield good results. They failed to draft QB's while Cousins was here...now, they've painted themselves into a corner. I hate to bring up Green Bay, but they drafted Love in the first round when they had a Hall of Fame QB on the roster. While Love may not pan out, they at least thought ahead and had a plan.
Post #: 2245
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 2:37:12 PM   
David Levine


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Brad Johnson is the only comp I can even find in the past 25 years that won his first (or only) SB in his mid 30s after having almost no Playoff success prior to that.

I thought maybe Mark Brunell, but he had 5 Playoff wins in the years before the season he won the SB.
Post #: 2246
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 2:38:59 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson
I hate to bring up Green Bay, but they drafted Love in the first round when they had a Hall of Fame QB on the roster. While Love may not pan out, they at least thought ahead and had a plan.


Not to mention a Hall of Fame QB on the roster when they drafted Rodgers in the first round.
Post #: 2247
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 2:42:28 PM   
twinsfan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Brad Johnson is the only comp I can even find in the past 25 years that won his first (or only) SB in his mid 30s after having almost no Playoff success prior to that.

I thought maybe Mark Brunell, but he had 5 Playoff wins in the years before the season he won the SB.

Mark Brunell won a SB?

_____________________________

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-Me
Post #: 2248
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 2:44:16 PM   
twinsfan


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Brunell was the backup QB and holder. Solid research, DL!

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“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

-Me
Post #: 2249
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/12/2023 2:57:46 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77942
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Brunell was the backup QB and holder. Solid research, DL!


That's how far I had to stretch to come up with a comp.
Post #: 2250
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