quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I wouldn't even worry about what QB leads us next year. I'm more worried about what GM leads us in to next year. My stomach is getting Kwesi about this regime.

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson
I hate to bring up Green Bay, but they drafted Love in the first round when they had a Hall of Fame QB on the roster. While Love may not pan out, they at least thought ahead and had a plan.

Not to mention a Hall of Fame QB on the roster when they drafted Rodgers in the first round.

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

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ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson
I hate to bring up Green Bay, but they drafted Love in the first round when they had a Hall of Fame QB on the roster. While Love may not pan out, they at least thought ahead and had a plan.

Not to mention a Hall of Fame QB on the roster when they drafted Rodgers in the first round.

That's how they ended up with 30+ years of HOF QBng.

That's Part of why I want them drafting a QB every year.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

Hi Talkvikes crew. Thought I'd chime in some this year. Hope that's okay! Yes, you could end up with a Mahomes or a Mayfield. Does that mean you don't draft a QB high in the first round? Of course not. The question seems to be should the team trade JJ to acquire picks and take a shot at one of the top QB's next draft? JJ is the most gifted receiver in the NFL, no question. He'll cost a fortune to sign to his next contract. We've had Moss, Carter, Diggs and now Jefferson to name a few of the standout receivers the team has had. Zero Super Bowl appearances with any of them. Their fault? No, of course not.

I'd trade JJ at the end of the season IF I determined that the overall talent on the roster is not capable of making it to the Super Bowl. Having the best receiver in the NFL doesn't matter if the team overall isn't good enough to make it to the Super Bowl. Bottom line...would you rather have the best receiver in football or a true star at QB? Giving up JJ would be a very hard decision. Obviously, you could screw up the draft and get another Ponder, but you could also get the next great QB.

Wow

We lost ONE game and now the calls to trade JJ are surfacing.

He is one of the top 5 players in the NFL. You don't trade talent like that unless you get a king's ransom. You don't actively shop them either. You build around them. He is ESTABLISHED talent. He has ESTABLISHED himself as one of the best in the game. You don't trade them for the crapshoot that a draftpick can be.

JJ is here at least the next few years. This year. Next year on 5th year option and then we can franchise him two more years after that. Why on Earth would anybody actively shop him unless he is totally disgruntled, which he isn't?

In fairness the question of trading JJ for multiple #1's has been around for a while. The idea is give Hou/AZ (or whomever) multiple 1's to get the #1 overall and taking William's. I'm not advocating it but I see the logic.

I would rather we find another way to secure a top pick, and have a superstud like JJ HERE for them to throw to and gain confidence earlier in their career.

I agree that I'd rather find another way, but the problem is there are not a lot of alternatives. A terrible record this year would allow the team to draft in the top 5. This season would suck but at least we'd have the draft to look forward to. That's one possible alternative. Re-sign Cousins...that's another way, but he's failed to get to the Super Bowl so that doesn't seem like a good move. Bring in a free agent...have to pay him which reduces the ability to sign other top players, including JJ. Give up multiple No. 1 picks in future years to move up. Well, that's an option but this team lacks the talent/depth to go without future 1st round picks. Trade a top player to acquire multiple No. 1 picks into the future...that's the "JJ Option". There may be other options, but one thing I"m certain about and that is it's WAY PAST TIME for drafting a true star at the position.

I am of the belief that we should be drafting a QB EVERY YEAR. Sometimes high, sometimes low, but always drafting a guy and trying to develope them. Maybe you get lucky and find another Tom Brady in the 6th round or Brock Purdy in the 7th, but the more you draft at the most important position on the field the better chance you have to find the gem. the diamond in the rough. the longterm leader you've needed for nearly two decades.

While that's a valid plan, we have failed to consistently do that for years and the guys we drafted have never developed. Absent re-signing Cousins, there will only be Mullins and the BYU guy on the roster. The time of kicking the can down the road has ended. Drafting a 5/6/7th round QB next year and the year after without having a true starting QB on the team will not yield good results. They failed to draft QB's while Cousins was here...now, they've painted themselves into a corner. I hate to bring up Green Bay, but they drafted Love in the first round when they had a Hall of Fame QB on the roster. While Love may not pan out, they at least thought ahead and had a plan.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I wouldn't even worry about what QB leads us next year. I'm more worried about what GM leads us in to next year. My stomach is getting Kwesi about this regime.

I didn't like Kwesi hiring but do like O'Connell. Unless something unexpected happens, I don't think the GM or coach are going anywhere so we're sort of stuck with them at this point. I'm worried about the QB next year because I've no idea what the GM's plan is as of today. Maybe he has a great plan but it beats me what it is.

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

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ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson
I hate to bring up Green Bay, but they drafted Love in the first round when they had a Hall of Fame QB on the roster. While Love may not pan out, they at least thought ahead and had a plan.

Not to mention a Hall of Fame QB on the roster when they drafted Rodgers in the first round.

That's how they ended up with 30+ years of HOF QBng.

That's Part of why I want them drafting a QB every year.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

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ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson
I hate to bring up Green Bay, but they drafted Love in the first round when they had a Hall of Fame QB on the roster. While Love may not pan out, they at least thought ahead and had a plan.

Not to mention a Hall of Fame QB on the roster when they drafted Rodgers in the first round.

That's how they ended up with 30+ years of HOF QBng.

That's Part of why I want them drafting a QB every year.

Vikings drafted Culpepper with George and Cunningham (2nd in MVP voting the prior year) on the roster.

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser
I wouldn't even worry about what QB leads us next year. I'm more worried about what GM leads us in to next year. My stomach is getting Kwesi about this regime.

They are not going to fire KAM.
Get used to the Kwesi feelings

No they're not. This organization is completely dysfunctional.

Dysfunctional because you don't like Kirk?
Would you rather watch a 4-12 for multiple seasons team?

The dysfuntion was the Zimmer/Spielman fiasco of resigning older vets and not bringing in young talent.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine
Brad Johnson is the only comp I can even find in the past 25 years that won his first (or only) SB in his mid 30s after having almost no Playoff success prior to that.
I thought maybe Mark Brunell, but he had 5 Playoff wins in the years before the season he won the SB.

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer



New regime; Spielmans issue with building a line isn't KOC or Kwesi.

Almost like you want a 4-12 team.

In fairness. Kwesi hasn't done much to build the line since he arrived either.

He's drafted Ed Ingram....woof
He re-signed Garrett Bradbury....EEK.
He drafted and traded Vaderion Lowe...
He Kept the turnstyle Oli Udoh.

I wouldn't really used the Offensive line to defend Kwesi.

and Spielman did draft both O'Neill and Darrisaw

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ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser
I wouldn't even worry about what QB leads us next year. I'm more worried about what GM leads us in to next year. My stomach is getting Kwesi about this regime.

They are not going to fire KAM.
Get used to the Kwesi feelings

No they're not. This organization is completely dysfunctional.

Dysfunctional because you don't like Kirk?
Would you rather watch a 4-12 for multiple seasons team?

The dysfuntion was the Zimmer/Spielman fiasco of resigning older vets and not bringing in young talent.

The Vikings first season, I believe, was in 1961. That's 62 years without winning a Super Bowl. I'm also a lifelong, hardcore Chicago Cubs fan. My father passed away at the age of 84. He never saw the Cubs win the World Series. When they won in 2016, all I could think about was my Dad. I don't want to pass away without seeing the Vikings win the Super Bowl. Theo Epstein came in and completely dismantled the organization from top to bottom. The Cubs sucked for about 3 to 4 years, but Epstein had a PLAN and he SOLD the fans on his PLAN and as he was rebuilding the team you could see the sense in his moves. I can tell you that for Cubs fans, having a good season or just winning the Division is no longer acceptable. The fans now expect and demand World Series titles...I want all Vikings fans to experience what Cub's fans experienced and once you do you'll never accept mediocrity ever again from the Vikings. So, is 4-12 good? No, it sucks. Is 9-8 good? No, it sucks to. Only competing for a Super Bowl is acceptable to me. If that means sucking for a few years I"m all in IF THERE IS A PLAN and the organization is able to EXPLAIN AND SELL the plan to us, their loyal fans.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

First game is always ugly.

Is that even valid? After all, the opponent has the same set of circumstances. Plus this season we were in the vaunted year two of the system while TB had a new OC, new QB, and new scheme. We had a new DC, but the same basic 3-4. And we were at home.

So I say that is a BS-type excuse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Another thing I've seen since the game's conclusion is "the defense wore down in the 4th."

How? Time of possession and number of plays were similar. Saw a bit on the defense being light. Like a bunch of fast-twitchers vs a bunch of heavy guys slogging around? Was it hot on the field?

And even if it did wear out due to, I presume, conditioning, isn't that on Flores?

They lost the game because the quarterback was a turnover machine. It's hard to win games that way.

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Brunell was the backup QB and holder. Solid research, DL!

That's how far I had to stretch to come up with a comp.

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ORIGINAL: twinsfan

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

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ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Brunell was the backup QB and holder. Solid research, DL!

That's how far I had to stretch to come up with a comp.

I will never let you forget this.

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson
I hate to bring up Green Bay, but they drafted Love in the first round when they had a Hall of Fame QB on the roster. While Love may not pan out, they at least thought ahead and had a plan.

Not to mention a Hall of Fame QB on the roster when they drafted Rodgers in the first round.

That's how they ended up with 30+ years of HOF QBng.

That's Part of why I want them drafting a QB every year.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Entering a landmark age 35 season, Kirk Cousins has taken the most hits of any quarterback since 2020:

2022: 84 (1st)
2021: 65 (3rd)
2020: 78 (1st)

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser
I wouldn't even worry about what QB leads us next year. I'm more worried about what GM leads us in to next year. My stomach is getting Kwesi about this regime.

They are not going to fire KAM.
Get used to the Kwesi feelings

No they're not. This organization is completely dysfunctional.

Dysfunctional because you don't like Kirk?
Would you rather watch a 4-12 for multiple seasons team?

The dysfuntion was the Zimmer/Spielman fiasco of resigning older vets and not bringing in young talent.

The Vikings first season, I believe, was in 1961. That's 62 years without winning a Super Bowl. I'm also a lifelong, hardcore Chicago Cubs fan. My father passed away at the age of 84. He never saw the Cubs win the World Series. When they won in 2016, all I could think about was my Dad. I don't want to pass away without seeing the Vikings win the Super Bowl. Theo Epstein came in and completely dismantled the organization from top to bottom. The Cubs sucked for about 3 to 4 years, but Epstein had a PLAN and he SOLD the fans on his PLAN and as he was rebuilding the team you could see the sense in his moves. I can tell you that for Cubs fans, having a good season or just winning the Division is no longer acceptable. The fans now expect and demand World Series titles...I want all Vikings fans to experience what Cub's fans experienced and once you do you'll never accept mediocrity ever again from the Vikings. So, is 4-12 good? No, it sucks. Is 9-8 good? No, it sucks to. Only competing for a Super Bowl is acceptable to me. If that means sucking for a few years I"m all in IF THERE IS A PLAN and the organization is able to EXPLAIN AND SELL the plan to us, their loyal fans.

Actually you improve during the season--record doesn't matter. One of most memorable games we lost in the 1987 NFC Championship to Washington 17-10......that team scared the shit out of them. That team squeaked into the playoffs.

I loved that defense. (Doleman, Millard, Thomas, Browner, Noga, Studwell, Holt, Lee). Washington only had 11 First Downs.

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

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ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

Too bad we can't trade Cousins to the Jets

Now, that's not a terrible idea. It would be giving up on this season, but we'd be able to stockpile draft picks which, in my opinion, are more valuable than Cousins at this point.

Way better to get something rather than nothing for him. It's not giving up on the season as much as believing the season is going to go bad anyway. Bit of a difference. If the thinking is we should be able to sniff the playoffs, then that would be giving up.

I didn't expect a lot out of the D, but it let Baker Mayfield build confidence to the point he was laughing and making plays at will to win the game. Meanwhile, I didn't see Cousins interact once with a player. He sat on the edge of the bench by himself, although sometimes with an assistant yapping with his iPad.

Because you have video of him for the entire time on the sidelines for the whole game to make this assessment?

Come on.

What can't you comprehend from "I didn't see..."

You're making a pretty strong judgement based on what you did see. And I did see him talking with JJ at one point. You are making a pretty strong judgement based on an unverifiable assumption.

I comprehend very well. You judge unfairly in my opinion based solely on the limited video you saw which probably covered less than 30 seconds of the time he was on the sidelines.

Yeah I guess when the camera was not on him at the end of the bench by himself, he walking the sidelines inspiring his teammates, conferring with KOC, and even chuckling about a couple of things to try to show he wasn't really mentally isolated. Right. Got it.

You have NO IDEA. You are INDEED GUESSING.

And so are YOU! Clearly, his time on the camera supports my assertion and not yours. Deal with it.

Of course I am. I can at least admit that.

You can't seem to get that you are making an assertion based on excessively limited facts. Like asserting that since a guy didn't contribute week one, he's useless. Guess JJ was useless in 2020 then.

So the camera wasn't on KC the entire game. What a revelation! OMG! How seemingly smart you are! What bothers you so much about "I didn't see... KC anywhere except on the bench."? Is it getting in your craw? LMAO!

I don't know what your 'useless' thing is with me, but it's off base. Wrong, but good try though as a disingenuous desperation move.

I am not in any way desperate.

My point, from the beginning, with Richard, since you can't comprehend it, was simple. He made an assessment of KC's interaction with teammates on the sidelines based soley on the few seconds of video the network showed of him during the game.

Useless was the word Richard used and you hopped on the critical of Kwesi bandwagon with him. Nothing is in my craw.

I just think one game is too short a time to make judgements on an entire season. and Less then a minute enough video to judge a QBs interaction with teammates on the sidelines.

I know that's hard for you to understand.

But whatever. Thus throw some more insults and attacks my way. That is your MO in Every thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

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ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

Too bad we can't trade Cousins to the Jets

Now, that's not a terrible idea. It would be giving up on this season, but we'd be able to stockpile draft picks which, in my opinion, are more valuable than Cousins at this point.

Way better to get something rather than nothing for him. It's not giving up on the season as much as believing the season is going to go bad anyway. Bit of a difference. If the thinking is we should be able to sniff the playoffs, then that would be giving up.

I didn't expect a lot out of the D, but it let Baker Mayfield build confidence to the point he was laughing and making plays at will to win the game. Meanwhile, I didn't see Cousins interact once with a player. He sat on the edge of the bench by himself, although sometimes with an assistant yapping with his iPad.

Because you have video of him for the entire time on the sidelines for the whole game to make this assessment?

Come on.

What can't you comprehend from "I didn't see..."

You're making a pretty strong judgement based on what you did see. And I did see him talking with JJ at one point. You are making a pretty strong judgement based on an unverifiable assumption.

I comprehend very well. You judge unfairly in my opinion based solely on the limited video you saw which probably covered less than 30 seconds of the time he was on the sidelines.

Yeah I guess when the camera was not on him at the end of the bench by himself, he walking the sidelines inspiring his teammates, conferring with KOC, and even chuckling about a couple of things to try to show he wasn't really mentally isolated. Right. Got it.

You have NO IDEA. You are INDEED GUESSING.

And so are YOU! Clearly, his time on the camera supports my assertion and not yours. Deal with it.

Of course I am. I can at least admit that.

You can't seem to get that you are making an assertion based on excessively limited facts. Like asserting that since a guy didn't contribute week one, he's useless. Guess JJ was useless in 2020 then.

So the camera wasn't on KC the entire game. What a revelation! OMG! How seemingly smart you are! What bothers you so much about "I didn't see... KC anywhere except on the bench."? Is it getting in your craw? LMAO!

I don't know what your 'useless' thing is with me, but it's off base. Wrong, but good try though as a disingenuous desperation move.

I am not in any way desperate.

My point, from the beginning, with Richard, since you can't comprehend it, was simple. He made an assessment of KC's interaction with teammates on the sidelines based soley on the few seconds of video the network showed of him during the game.

Useless was the word Richard used and you hopped on the critical of Kwesi bandwagon with him. Nothing is in my craw.

I just think one game is too short a time to make judgements on an entire season. and Less then a minute enough video to judge a QBs interaction with teammates on the sidelines.

I know that's hard for you to understand.

But whatever. Thus throw some more insults and attacks my way. That is your MO in Every thread.

I personally don't care what took place on the sideline. Kirk seems like a nice guy and a good person. My issue with Cousins is that he doesn't have a killer instinct. I want a QB that is going to look you in the eye as he cuts out your heart and laughs at you as he does it. Take a look at the great QB's, they all have that killer instinct. Cousins just doesn't have that "I'm going to crush you until you give up" attitude...we need someone with a Michael Jordan attitude.