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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 7:51:58 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27446
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

Recommended 3 players to sign before next game on the old interwebs:

Akeem Hicks
Risner
Hunt

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 9/15/2023 7:55:35 AM >

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Post #: 2351

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 7:55:23 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

Usually all the turnovers, drops, backups, etc. would make the game unwatchable but last year’s team showed up: sputtering on offense for big parts then good in a spurt or two; powder puff defense; playing an opponent with its own issues.

This whole Mattison / TE thing vs our IOL is really starting to get under my skin. Oliver makes Rudolph look like Johnny Rogers. I can’t believe the resources invested at TE vs IOL (or IDL).

Kwesi was given the job with some loose change he found in the couch and his approach is to make TE the tip of our spear?

Also, before I forget, let me apologize for suggesting Osborn would be fine as a #2 type WR - in my argument with Karl et al, about the desperate need for drafting Addison. Another gaffe on my part. No excuses … I was wrong. I still think there are equally gaping holes on the roster but Osborne, like Mattison, are obviously not able to fill solid starting roles.

Post #: 2352

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 8:02:10 AM

bstinger

Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

In the last 8 drafts, the team has drafted 2 defensive lineman in the first 4 rounds, and that's a 3rd and 4th rounder

That's rough. It no wonder we have the current dline we do.

All those wasted CB and LB picks vs building up your dline.

The game is won and lost in the trenches. Our trenches are weak as F.

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--twinsfan

Post #: 2353

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 8:10:05 AM

jbusse

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

In the last 8 drafts, the team has drafted 2 defensive lineman in the first 4 rounds, and that's a 3rd and 4th rounder

That's rough. It no wonder we have the current dline we do.

All those wasted CB and LB picks vs building up your dline.

The game is won and lost in the trenches. Our trenches are weak as F.

It's perplexing that this doesn't show up in the analytics that Kwesi supposedly is so fond of.

Post #: 2354

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 8:25:45 AM 1 votes

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 39296
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline

OK. My thoughts on the game.

1. Turnovers are killing us.
- Powells on the good punt return was devastating
- Mattison coughing it up right after we took it from the Eagles was devastating
- I don't blame Cousins for his because Oli Udoh did his normal turnstyle impression on the play
- JJ. Well, he was trying to extend the ball over the goal line which nearly every guy will try to do right there. If he loses control after it breaks the plane it is a TD. He just lost it too soon. It's hard to blame him for tying to make a play.

2. Ok. IMHO the Mattison experiment is a failure. They blew it there. He wasn't running well at all. granted it's against a very good Defensive front. but he did cough the ball up twice (only gets credit for one because the other was called back due to penalty)

3. I don't care how much the haters want to blame him, you can't blame this loss on Kirk Cousins.

4. I don't understand why the Eagles, who were gashing our D for 7-10 yards a carry, up by 13 would abruptly stop running the ball and start throwing. It made no sense at all.

5. Our run defense was terrible all game. I can give them a litte bit of a pass for later in the game because they were gassed but good golly they were awful.

6. Despite all our self inflicted wounds, we were still in this game for most of it. even though we fell way far behind we kept fighting...that bodes well.

7. Akayleb Evans clearly was expecting help over the top on the second Smith TD. That being said he was burned a few times this game.

8. Danielle Hunter....3 sacks. He's got four on the year already....probably means he'll be hurt before October (the cynic in me is starting to surface)

9. I am starting to really like Addison.

10. they finally started to throw the ball downfield to TJ Hockenson instead of the dumbshit checkdown play that never works.

Now STOP ****NG COUGHING UP THE BALL AND MAYBE WE CAN WIN SOME OF THESE GAMES.

< Message edited by Trekgeekscott -- 9/15/2023 8:29:54 AM >

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 8:40:06 AM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

I don't think any running back can have success behind a worthless OLine, so still see no need to spend money on the position.

Cousins is about the last thing wrong with the team.

I wonder if Hunter has decent trade value at the deadline if the season is toast.

Never ever pay a RB, LB, or Safety big money. If they are that good...trade them and invest in OL DL and DB.

< Message edited by ronhextall -- 9/15/2023 8:41:18 AM >

Post #: 2356

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 8:40:06 AM

Arlowe84

Posts: 331
Joined: 9/30/2019
Status: offline

I'm not a cap guy, but can someone tell me why in hell Harrison Smith was not released?

Every veteran player on this team who has hit their peak and on the decline was released...........why not Smith?

He's been on decline for years, I have no idea why you are paying big $ for an aging safety.

Post #: 2357

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 8:42:10 AM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 39296
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

I'm not a cap guy, but can someone tell me why in hell Harrison Smith was not released?

Every veteran player on this team who has hit their peak and on the decline was released...........why not Smith?

He's been on decline for years, I have no idea why you are paying big $ for an aging safety.

He took a paycut to stay.

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Post #: 2358

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 8:50:19 AM

Arlowe84

Posts: 331
Joined: 9/30/2019
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I don't think any running back can have success behind a worthless OLine, so still see no need to spend money on the position.

Cousins is about the last thing wrong with the team.

I wonder if Hunter has decent trade value at the deadline if the season is toast.

Never ever pay a RB, LB, or Safety big money. If they are that good...trade them and invest in OL DL and DB.

C and RG are a problem.

Granted you are not going to have stud everywhere, and you need a really good O line with an immobile QB

I still don't know how you look at defensive line of Bullard/Tonga, Phillips and Lowry, and think that is a legitimate defensive line

I mean it's laughably bad. Phillips is a rotational guy at best, those other 3.........couldn't even make Philly's roster.

My hope is down deep Kwesi damn new this team does not have the resources to complete with the elite teams in this league, and this year is all about providing fans some fun with the shiny offense, meanwhile setting up this team for 2024/2205 with cap space.

Got a lot of work to do though on the lines of this team, and Cousins likely will not be back.

6 years, 1 playoff win, you just gotta move on.

Don't get fooled by the "close" games. The league is set up for parity. There's really only about 6 to 7 teams that truly have a change to win this thing. The Vikings are in that massive group of mediorce teams

They were there last year, they just had a lot of breaks go their way.

< Message edited by Arlowe84 -- 9/15/2023 8:52:09 AM >

Post #: 2359

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 8:59:18 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

In the last 8 drafts, the team has drafted 2 defensive lineman in the first 4 rounds, and that's a 3rd and 4th rounder

That's rough. It no wonder we have the current dline we do.

All those wasted CB and LB picks vs building up your dline.

The game is won and lost in the trenches. Our trenches are weak as F.

Yes we are and we knew this going into the off season. Kwesi's answer was to run it back with the same weakling IOL. Lost our best IDLman in Tomlinson and replaced him with Dean frickin Lowry. Eagles didn't even seem to be running on all 8 cylinders yet rushed the ball 48 times for 269 yards.

< Message edited by Bill Jandro -- 9/15/2023 9:00:46 AM >

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Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 2360

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 9:26:03 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

In the last 8 drafts, the team has drafted 2 defensive lineman in the first 4 rounds, and that's a 3rd and 4th rounder

That's rough. It no wonder we have the current dline we do.

All those wasted CB and LB picks vs building up your dline.

The game is won and lost in the trenches. Our trenches are weak as F.

Yes we are and we knew this going into the off season. Kwesi's answer was to run it back with the same weakling IOL. Lost our best IDLman in Tomlinson and replaced him with Dean frickin Lowry. Eagles didn't even seem to be running on all 8 cylinders yet rushed the ball 48 times for 269 yards.

The Eagles were ripe for the picking last night and we said nah, you guys got this.

Post #: 2361

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 9:28:17 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45026
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

In the last 8 drafts, the team has drafted 2 defensive lineman in the first 4 rounds, and that's a 3rd and 4th rounder

That's rough. It no wonder we have the current dline we do.

All those wasted CB and LB picks vs building up your dline.

The game is won and lost in the trenches. Our trenches are weak as F.

Yes we are and we knew this going into the off season. Kwesi's answer was to run it back with the same weakling IOL. Lost our best IDLman in Tomlinson and replaced him with Dean frickin Lowry. Eagles didn't even seem to be running on all 8 cylinders yet rushed the ball 48 times for 269 yards.

The Vikings defied the odds in a big way by winning 13 games while getting their asses kicked at the line of scrimmage game after game. They did nothing to improve the oline and made the dline even worse. I have a feeling the law of average is going to swing hard in the other direction.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 2362

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 9:40:21 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19462
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

In the last 8 drafts, the team has drafted 2 defensive lineman in the first 4 rounds, and that's a 3rd and 4th rounder

That's rough. It no wonder we have the current dline we do.

All those wasted CB and LB picks vs building up your dline.

The game is won and lost in the trenches. Our trenches are weak as F.

Yes we are and we knew this going into the off season. Kwesi's answer was to run it back with the same weakling IOL. Lost our best IDLman in Tomlinson and replaced him with Dean frickin Lowry. Eagles didn't even seem to be running on all 8 cylinders yet rushed the ball 48 times for 269 yards.

The Vikings defied the odds in a big way by winning 13 games while getting their asses kicked at the line of scrimmage game after game. They did nothing to improve the oline and made the dline even worse. I have a feeling the law of average is going to swing hard in the other direction.

Good! I actually like KC but the way we are setup, we can’t spend money on him. We need that money for the trenches so let’s continue to lose so we can get a high draft pick and use his money. The real kick in the balls was/is his restructure. Thanks again KAM you’re really good at your job 🤬

Post #: 2363

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 9:41:54 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45026
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I don't think any running back can have success behind a worthless OLine, so still see no need to spend money on the position.

Cousins is about the last thing wrong with the team.

I wonder if Hunter has decent trade value at the deadline if the season is toast.

Never ever pay a RB, LB, or Safety big money. If they are that good...trade them and invest in OL DL and DB.

C and RG are a problem.

LG is almost as bad as RG. Cleveland is terrible. He is whiffing on blocks left and right. Watch when we throw a middle screen. Cleveland is one of the main reasons the receiver gets blown up the instant he catches the ball.

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Post #: 2364

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 9:42:09 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28639
Status: offline

The Eagles are a great barometer to determine how good or bad a teams OL and DL are. That game should not have created any revelations, especially about the DL. The 16 play drive with 13 rushes I think set some obscure record(s). And the runs up the gut later were also embarrassing. A massacre.

It was a given the IOL would suck. And Mattison had nowhere to run. Cousins played a heck of a game.

Post #: 2365

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 9:44:33 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28639
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

In the last 8 drafts, the team has drafted 2 defensive lineman in the first 4 rounds, and that's a 3rd and 4th rounder

That's rough. It no wonder we have the current dline we do.

All those wasted CB and LB picks vs building up your dline.

The game is won and lost in the trenches. Our trenches are weak as F.

Yes we are and we knew this going into the off season. Kwesi's answer was to run it back with the same weakling IOL. Lost our best IDLman in Tomlinson and replaced him with Dean frickin Lowry. Eagles didn't even seem to be running on all 8 cylinders yet rushed the ball 48 times for 269 yards.

The Vikings defied the odds in a big way by winning 13 games while getting their asses kicked at the line of scrimmage game after game. They did nothing to improve the oline and made the dline even worse. I have a feeling the law of average is going to swing hard in the other direction.

Like already being 0-2 in one score games?

Post #: 2366

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 10:03:46 AM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 36199
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: offline

Cousins played very well.
Year after year I beg for improvement in the OL.
We won't be a serious contender until we upgrade our lines. We were dominated on the line of scrimmage.

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Post #: 2367

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 10:08:48 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28639
Status: offline

Better stock up on LBs too.

Davenport, the $13 million man who is yet to be unleashed, is a UFA after this year. Nevermind $7 million of his salary is stashed in a void year after his contract expires.

Hunter is also a UFA after this year, and he has $15 million stashed in void years.

Hicks is a UFA with no void year cap $.

Wonnum is a UFA with no void year cap $.

Dye is a UFA with no void year cap $.

$22 million less to spend. But we will have fan fav Asamoah, Pace, Carter, and Jones.

Post #: 2368

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 10:10:34 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45026
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

In the last 8 drafts, the team has drafted 2 defensive lineman in the first 4 rounds, and that's a 3rd and 4th rounder

That's rough. It no wonder we have the current dline we do.

All those wasted CB and LB picks vs building up your dline.

The game is won and lost in the trenches. Our trenches are weak as F.

Yes we are and we knew this going into the off season. Kwesi's answer was to run it back with the same weakling IOL. Lost our best IDLman in Tomlinson and replaced him with Dean frickin Lowry. Eagles didn't even seem to be running on all 8 cylinders yet rushed the ball 48 times for 269 yards.

The Vikings defied the odds in a big way by winning 13 games while getting their asses kicked at the line of scrimmage game after game. They did nothing to improve the oline and made the dline even worse. I have a feeling the law of average is going to swing hard in the other direction.

Like already being 0-2 in one score games?

Exactly. And I think it's only the beginning.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 2369

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 10:13:16 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

In the last 8 drafts, the team has drafted 2 defensive lineman in the first 4 rounds, and that's a 3rd and 4th rounder

That's rough. It no wonder we have the current dline we do.

All those wasted CB and LB picks vs building up your dline.

The game is won and lost in the trenches. Our trenches are weak as F.

Yes we are and we knew this going into the off season. Kwesi's answer was to run it back with the same weakling IOL. Lost our best IDLman in Tomlinson and replaced him with Dean frickin Lowry. Eagles didn't even seem to be running on all 8 cylinders yet rushed the ball 48 times for 269 yards.

The Vikings defied the odds in a big way by winning 13 games while getting their asses kicked at the line of scrimmage game after game. They did nothing to improve the oline and made the dline even worse. I have a feeling the law of average is going to swing hard in the other direction.

Like already being 0-2 in one score games?

Exactly. And I think it's only the beginning.

So, iow, we won't be part of the 10% who make the playoffs after starting 0-2?

Sure was a long wait only to get to this vibe

Post #: 2370

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 10:41:22 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The Eagles are a great barometer to determine how good or bad a teams OL and DL are. That game should not have created any revelations, especially about the DL. The 16 play drive with 13 rushes I think set some obscure record(s). And the runs up the gut later were also embarrassing. A massacre.

It was a given the IOL would suck. And Mattison had nowhere to run. Cousins played a heck of a game.

Yup, I thought he was more aggressive than usual throwing into tight windows.

Threw a few balls that JJ had to pluck away from Slay. A shame Osborn couldn't do the same on the INT.

Post #: 2371

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 10:44:00 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

Gotta agree on Cousins. He was throwing strikes. I hope he says eff it and throws caution into the wind for the rest of the year.

Post #: 2372

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 11:28:11 AM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Not signing Cousins isn't going to matter going forward IMO, you are not going to "sign free agents" to fix OL / DL. You need to draft and develop. Something the Vikings suck at.

Post #: 2373

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 11:44:22 AM

Lars

Posts: 11418
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
Status: offline

My $0.02:

Turnovers are killing this team - especially when and where they are occurring. I think they would be 2-0 otherwise.

The run game by PHI last night was a good counter to the defense I think they designed to run: not gonna get beat over the top and we will contain Hurts. Did pretty well with that. If the front 7 played a bit better.....

Cousins played very well.

The IOL is weak. However, I expected much worse when starters started dropping like flies.

Harry is toast.

Hicks played a good game, as did Hunter.

Mattison is fine. He's not the problem, it's the OL getting pushed around.

Meh...going in I expected to lose by 10+. The fact that is was only 6 with all of the self-inflicted wounds is noteworthy.

SKOL

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Post #: 2374

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2023 11:52:21 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

One thing I liked to see was the offense scoring TDs.

Post #: 2375