RE: Twins off-season

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RE: Twins off-season - 12/28/2023 4:55:21 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 44839
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

Just for fun

First ballot Hall of Famer Dave Winfield also had 3,110 hits, 540 doubles, 465 HR, 1669 runs and 1,833 rbi.

First ballot Hall of Famer Paul Molitor had 3,319 hits, 605 doubles, 234 hr, 1,782 runs, 1,307 rbi.

Not HOF worthy Joe Mauer had 2,123 hits, 428 doubles, 143 hr, 1,018 runs, 923 rbi.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 226

RE: Twins off-season - 12/28/2023 5:18:58 PM

Ricky J

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Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Dave Winfield avg 141 hits, 25 doubles, 21 HR, 76 runs and 83 rbi a year

Paul Molitor avg. 158 hits, 29 doubles, 11 hr, 85 runs, 62 rbi a year

Joe Mauer avg. 142 hits, 29 doubles, 10 hr, 68 runs, 62 rbi a year

Post #: 227

RE: Twins off-season - 12/28/2023 5:23:30 PM 3 votes

David Levine

Posts: 77422
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

Heh. Averages.

Guess that's needed when you compare Joe to 2 guys that played into their 40s and played ~1000 more games.

Post #: 228

RE: Twins off-season - 12/28/2023 5:33:01 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 44839
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Heh. Averages.

Guess that's needed when you compare Joe to 2 guys that played into their 40s and played ~1000 more games.

Bingo

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 229

RE: Twins off-season - 12/29/2023 8:34:02 AM

bstinger

Posts: 16525
Joined: 7/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Just for fun

First ballot Hall of Famer Dave Winfield also had 3,110 hits, 540 doubles, 465 HR, 1669 runs and 1,833 rbi.

First ballot Hall of Famer Paul Molitor had 3,319 hits, 605 doubles, 234 hr, 1,782 runs, 1,307 rbi.

Not HOF worthy Joe Mauer had 2,123 hits, 428 doubles, 143 hr, 1,018 runs, 923 rbi.

Who was a GG catcher who did something nobody else has done in the history of baseball? And he did it 3 times.

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"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan

Post #: 230

RE: Twins off-season - 12/29/2023 8:35:56 AM

bstinger

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Stumbled on this video about Joe and a high school classmate.

Very touching, not surprising at all from what I knew about Joe but I'm surprised I hadn't heard about it before, but the video was made July of 2022.

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+did+joe+mauer+do+that+nobody+else+has&rlz=1C1ONGR_enUS1047US1047&oq=what+did+joe+mauer+do+that+nobody+else+has&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigATIHCAMQIRirAtIBCTEzNTQyajBqN6gCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:8c89e58f,vid:g6tLNupgJBs,st:0

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

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Post #: 231

RE: Twins off-season - 12/29/2023 9:46:49 AM

twinsfan

Posts: 63155
Joined: 12/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Heh. Averages.

Guess that's needed when you compare Joe to 2 guys that played into their 40s and played ~1000 more games.

Mauer played his peak years at catcher and at a high defensive level. Molitor and Winfield were so bad defensively that they couldn't play the easiest of positions in the field and compiled their numbers at DH.

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Post #: 232

RE: Twins off-season - 12/29/2023 9:47:53 AM

twinsfan

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bstinger is jumping on board!

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Post #: 233

RE: Twins off-season - 12/29/2023 9:52:50 AM

twinsfan

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Cool video and story. I never got to sit at the cool table! I'm surprised Joe did. He seems too humble to be part of the jackass cool kids cafeteria table.

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Post #: 234

RE: Twins off-season - 12/29/2023 2:39:10 PM

bstinger

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Joined: 7/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

bstinger is jumping on board!

I don't give a hoot one way or another. I just don't like unfair arguments. Comparing Joe to 2 guys who DH'd a lot of games is not a fair comparison. Compare him to Catchers in the Hall.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan

Post #: 235

RE: Twins off-season - 12/29/2023 3:34:06 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 44839
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Just for fun

First ballot Hall of Famer Dave Winfield also had 3,110 hits, 540 doubles, 465 HR, 1669 runs and 1,833 rbi.

First ballot Hall of Famer Paul Molitor had 3,319 hits, 605 doubles, 234 hr, 1,782 runs, 1,307 rbi.

Not HOF worthy Joe Mauer had 2,123 hits, 428 doubles, 143 hr, 1,018 runs, 923 rbi.

Who was a GG catcher who did something nobody else has done in the history of baseball? And he did it 3 times.

Others did it. He did it 3 times. Impressive, but not enough to overcome career numbers that are about 2/3 of real HoF players. Not to mention Winfield had 6 GG.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 236

RE: Twins off-season - 12/29/2023 3:36:57 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 44839
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Heh. Averages.

Guess that's needed when you compare Joe to 2 guys that played into their 40s and played ~1000 more games.

Mauer played his peak years at catcher and at a high defensive level. Molitor and Winfield were so bad defensively that they couldn't play the easiest of positions in the field and compiled their numbers at DH.

Winfield played his position so bad that he won 6 GG. Molitor was axcellent fielder who moved to DH due to injury problems.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 237

RE: Twins off-season - 12/29/2023 3:40:56 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 44839
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

bstinger is jumping on board!

I don't give a hoot one way or another. I just don't like unfair arguments. Comparing Joe to 2 guys who DH'd a lot of games is not a fair comparison. Compare him to Catchers in the Hall.

Take it up with Matt. He's the one who posted the case for Joe based on cherry picked comparisons to Winfield and Molitor. I just fleshed out the stats to paint a more complete picture.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 238

RE: Twins off-season - 12/30/2023 8:47:11 AM

bstinger

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Joined: 7/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Just for fun

First ballot Hall of Famer Dave Winfield also had 3,110 hits, 540 doubles, 465 HR, 1669 runs and 1,833 rbi.

First ballot Hall of Famer Paul Molitor had 3,319 hits, 605 doubles, 234 hr, 1,782 runs, 1,307 rbi.

Not HOF worthy Joe Mauer had 2,123 hits, 428 doubles, 143 hr, 1,018 runs, 923 rbi.

Who was a GG catcher who did something nobody else has done in the history of baseball? And he did it 3 times.

Others did it. He did it 3 times. Impressive, but not enough to overcome career numbers that are about 2/3 of real HoF players. Not to mention Winfield had 6 GG.

A six-time All-Star, Mauer is the only catcher in MLB history to win three batting titles, and the only catcher to ever win a batting title in the American League (AL).

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan

Post #: 239

RE: Twins off-season - 12/30/2023 8:52:49 AM

bstinger

Posts: 16525
Joined: 7/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

bstinger is jumping on board!

I don't give a hoot one way or another. I just don't like unfair arguments. Comparing Joe to 2 guys who DH'd a lot of games is not a fair comparison. Compare him to Catchers in the Hall.

Take it up with Matt. He's the one who posted the case for Joe based on cherry picked comparisons to Winfield and Molitor. I just fleshed out the stats to paint a more complete picture.

Since you didn't quote the original post I had no way of knowing you were responding to Matt.

Molitor and Winfield were very good hitters who had very long careers. I haven't combed over their stats in great detail, but I think most people would agree, that at the peak of their career Mauer was more special. Was it enough to get into the Hall? Maybe not, but there is an argument for it. I think too much emphasis is put on career long counting stats. I'm more interested in peak greatness, especially when that greatness is cut short due to injury and not just a flame out.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan

Post #: 240

RE: Twins off-season - 12/30/2023 10:35:47 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77422
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

You also have to look at postseasons.

Molitor and Winfield both played in two WS - each winning one.

Mauer has 11 hits in 10 postseason games.

Puckett isn't in the Hall without his WS wins.

Post #: 241

RE: Twins off-season - 12/31/2023 3:34:28 PM 2 votes

twinsfan

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Joined: 12/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

You also have to look at postseasons.

Molitor and Winfield both played in two WS - each winning one.

Mauer has 11 hits in 10 postseason games.

Puckett isn't in the Hall without his WS wins.

You are gonna discount Mauer because of 10 postseason games? That's stupid.

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Post #: 242

RE: Twins off-season - 12/31/2023 3:37:13 PM

twinsfan

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https://www.si.com/fannation/bringmethesports/twins/joe-mauer-remains-on-track-to-be-inducted-into-the-hall-of-fame

It's happening.

Gonna be one hell of a class with Beltre and Mauer as first year inductees.

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Post #: 243

RE: Twins off-season - 12/31/2023 5:12:30 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 44839
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

You also have to look at postseasons.

Molitor and Winfield both played in two WS - each winning one.

Mauer has 11 hits in 10 postseason games.

Puckett isn't in the Hall without his WS wins.

You are gonna discount Mauer because of 10 postseason games? That's stupid.

No, because his career numbers combined with a lack of playoff success don't amount to a HOF career.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 244

RE: Twins off-season - 12/31/2023 9:59:18 PM

twinsfan

Posts: 63155
Joined: 12/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

You also have to look at postseasons.

Molitor and Winfield both played in two WS - each winning one.

Mauer has 11 hits in 10 postseason games.

Puckett isn't in the Hall without his WS wins.

You are gonna discount Mauer because of 10 postseason games? That's stupid.

No, because his career numbers combined with a lack of playoff success don't amount to a HOF career.

Wanna bet?

_____________________________

Magic Number
Billy Hamilton 0

Post #: 245

RE: Twins off-season - 12/31/2023 10:00:03 PM 1 votes

twinsfan

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Joined: 12/21/2009
Status: offline

I love being right. Especially when Tim is wrong.

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Post #: 246

RE: Twins off-season - 1/1/2024 9:27:42 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 44839
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

You also have to look at postseasons.

Molitor and Winfield both played in two WS - each winning one.

Mauer has 11 hits in 10 postseason games.

Puckett isn't in the Hall without his WS wins.

You are gonna discount Mauer because of 10 postseason games? That's stupid.

No, because his career numbers combined with a lack of playoff success don't amount to a HOF career.

Wanna bet?

Nope. He may be Inducted, but that doesn't mean he actually deserves it. The voters have a long history of selecting undeserving players like Bill Mazeroski, Luis Apparicio and Rabbit Maranville. The HOF has become the Hall of You Really Don’t Have to be All That Special.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 247

RE: Twins off-season - 1/2/2024 7:47:28 AM

bstinger

Posts: 16525
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

You also have to look at postseasons.

Molitor and Winfield both played in two WS - each winning one.

Mauer has 11 hits in 10 postseason games.

Puckett isn't in the Hall without his WS wins.

You are gonna discount Mauer because of 10 postseason games? That's stupid.

No, because his career numbers combined with a lack of playoff success don't amount to a HOF career.

Wanna bet?

Nope. He may be Inducted, but that doesn't mean he actually deserves it. The voters have a long history of selecting undeserving players like Bill Mazeroski, Luis Apparicio and Rabbit Maranville. The HOF has become the Hall of You Really Don’t Have to be All That Special.

If you feel that strongly about it, put up a pole barn in the backyard and call it "The Hall of Ballplayers approved by the Bastard" or something similar.

You can charge admission to everyone who cares about your choices.

Aren't there more important things to concern yourself with?

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan

Post #: 248

RE: Twins off-season - 1/2/2024 7:50:08 AM

bstinger

Posts: 16525
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

You also have to look at postseasons.

Molitor and Winfield both played in two WS - each winning one.

Mauer has 11 hits in 10 postseason games.

Puckett isn't in the Hall without his WS wins.

Agree that it doesn't help him.

Does he get an * for 1 more because of Cuzzi? Who knows what kind of success that would've sparked?

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan

Post #: 249

RE: Twins off-season - 1/2/2024 8:21:27 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 44839
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

You also have to look at postseasons.

Molitor and Winfield both played in two WS - each winning one.

Mauer has 11 hits in 10 postseason games.

Puckett isn't in the Hall without his WS wins.

You are gonna discount Mauer because of 10 postseason games? That's stupid.

No, because his career numbers combined with a lack of playoff success don't amount to a HOF career.

Wanna bet?

Nope. He may be Inducted, but that doesn't mean he actually deserves it. The voters have a long history of selecting undeserving players like Bill Mazeroski, Luis Apparicio and Rabbit Maranville. The HOF has become the Hall of You Really Don’t Have to be All That Special.

If you feel that strongly about it, put up a pole barn in the backyard and call it "The Hall of Ballplayers approved by the Bastard" or something similar. You can charge admission to everyone who cares about your choices.

Aren't there more important things to concern yourself with?

Matt brought up the topic and we're debating it. Last time I checked, this is still a baseball forum.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 250