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RE: Twins off-season

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RE: Twins off-season - 12/28/2023 4:55:21 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45014
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline 		Just for fun

First ballot Hall of Famer Dave Winfield also had 3,110 hits, 540 doubles, 465 HR, 1669 runs and 1,833 rbi.

First ballot Hall of Famer Paul Molitor had 3,319 hits, 605 doubles, 234 hr, 1,782 runs, 1,307 rbi.

Not HOF worthy Joe Mauer had 2,123 hits, 428 doubles, 143 hr, 1,018 runs, 923 rbi.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 226
RE: Twins off-season - 12/28/2023 5:18:58 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		Dave Winfield avg 141 hits, 25 doubles, 21 HR, 76 runs and 83 rbi a year

Paul Molitor avg. 158 hits, 29 doubles, 11 hr, 85 runs, 62 rbi a year

Joe Mauer avg. 142 hits, 29 doubles, 10 hr, 68 runs, 62 rbi a year
Post #: 227
RE: Twins off-season - 12/28/2023 5:23:30 PM  3 votes
David Levine


Posts: 77901
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		Heh. Averages.

Guess that's needed when you compare Joe to 2 guys that played into their 40s and played ~1000 more games.
Post #: 228
RE: Twins off-season - 12/28/2023 5:33:01 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45014
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Heh. Averages.

Guess that's needed when you compare Joe to 2 guys that played into their 40s and played ~1000 more games.

Bingo

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 229
RE: Twins off-season - 12/29/2023 8:34:02 AM   
bstinger


Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Just for fun

First ballot Hall of Famer Dave Winfield also had 3,110 hits, 540 doubles, 465 HR, 1669 runs and 1,833 rbi.

First ballot Hall of Famer Paul Molitor had 3,319 hits, 605 doubles, 234 hr, 1,782 runs, 1,307 rbi.

Not HOF worthy Joe Mauer had 2,123 hits, 428 doubles, 143 hr, 1,018 runs, 923 rbi.

Who was a GG catcher who did something nobody else has done in the history of baseball? And he did it 3 times.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan
Post #: 230
RE: Twins off-season - 12/29/2023 8:35:56 AM   
bstinger


Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline 		Stumbled on this video about Joe and a high school classmate.

Very touching, not surprising at all from what I knew about Joe but I'm surprised I hadn't heard about it before, but the video was made July of 2022.

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+did+joe+mauer+do+that+nobody+else+has&rlz=1C1ONGR_enUS1047US1047&oq=what+did+joe+mauer+do+that+nobody+else+has&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigATIHCAMQIRirAtIBCTEzNTQyajBqN6gCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:8c89e58f,vid:g6tLNupgJBs,st:0

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan
Post #: 231
RE: Twins off-season - 12/29/2023 9:46:49 AM   
twinsfan


Posts: 63623
Joined: 12/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Heh. Averages.

Guess that's needed when you compare Joe to 2 guys that played into their 40s and played ~1000 more games.

Mauer played his peak years at catcher and at a high defensive level. Molitor and Winfield were so bad defensively that they couldn't play the easiest of positions in the field and compiled their numbers at DH.

_____________________________

“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

-Me
Post #: 232
RE: Twins off-season - 12/29/2023 9:47:53 AM   
twinsfan


Posts: 63623
Joined: 12/21/2009
Status: offline 		bstinger is jumping on board!

_____________________________

“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

-Me
Post #: 233
RE: Twins off-season - 12/29/2023 9:52:50 AM   
twinsfan


Posts: 63623
Joined: 12/21/2009
Status: offline 		Cool video and story. I never got to sit at the cool table! I'm surprised Joe did. He seems too humble to be part of the jackass cool kids cafeteria table.

_____________________________

“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

-Me
Post #: 234
RE: Twins off-season - 12/29/2023 2:39:10 PM   
bstinger


Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

bstinger is jumping on board!

I don't give a hoot one way or another. I just don't like unfair arguments. Comparing Joe to 2 guys who DH'd a lot of games is not a fair comparison. Compare him to Catchers in the Hall.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan
Post #: 235
RE: Twins off-season - 12/29/2023 3:34:06 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45014
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Just for fun

First ballot Hall of Famer Dave Winfield also had 3,110 hits, 540 doubles, 465 HR, 1669 runs and 1,833 rbi.

First ballot Hall of Famer Paul Molitor had 3,319 hits, 605 doubles, 234 hr, 1,782 runs, 1,307 rbi.

Not HOF worthy Joe Mauer had 2,123 hits, 428 doubles, 143 hr, 1,018 runs, 923 rbi.

Who was a GG catcher who did something nobody else has done in the history of baseball? And he did it 3 times.

Others did it. He did it 3 times. Impressive, but not enough to overcome career numbers that are about 2/3 of real HoF players. Not to mention Winfield had 6 GG.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 236
RE: Twins off-season - 12/29/2023 3:36:57 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45014
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Heh. Averages.

Guess that's needed when you compare Joe to 2 guys that played into their 40s and played ~1000 more games.

Mauer played his peak years at catcher and at a high defensive level. Molitor and Winfield were so bad defensively that they couldn't play the easiest of positions in the field and compiled their numbers at DH.

Winfield played his position so bad that he won 6 GG. Molitor was axcellent fielder who moved to DH due to injury problems.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 237
RE: Twins off-season - 12/29/2023 3:40:56 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45014
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

bstinger is jumping on board!

I don't give a hoot one way or another. I just don't like unfair arguments. Comparing Joe to 2 guys who DH'd a lot of games is not a fair comparison. Compare him to Catchers in the Hall.

Take it up with Matt. He's the one who posted the case for Joe based on cherry picked comparisons to Winfield and Molitor. I just fleshed out the stats to paint a more complete picture.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 238
RE: Twins off-season - 12/30/2023 8:47:11 AM   
bstinger


Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Just for fun

First ballot Hall of Famer Dave Winfield also had 3,110 hits, 540 doubles, 465 HR, 1669 runs and 1,833 rbi.

First ballot Hall of Famer Paul Molitor had 3,319 hits, 605 doubles, 234 hr, 1,782 runs, 1,307 rbi.

Not HOF worthy Joe Mauer had 2,123 hits, 428 doubles, 143 hr, 1,018 runs, 923 rbi.

Who was a GG catcher who did something nobody else has done in the history of baseball? And he did it 3 times.

Others did it. He did it 3 times. Impressive, but not enough to overcome career numbers that are about 2/3 of real HoF players. Not to mention Winfield had 6 GG.

A six-time All-Star, Mauer is the only catcher in MLB history to win three batting titles, and the only catcher to ever win a batting title in the American League (AL).

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan
Post #: 239
RE: Twins off-season - 12/30/2023 8:52:49 AM   
bstinger


Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

bstinger is jumping on board!

I don't give a hoot one way or another. I just don't like unfair arguments. Comparing Joe to 2 guys who DH'd a lot of games is not a fair comparison. Compare him to Catchers in the Hall.

Take it up with Matt. He's the one who posted the case for Joe based on cherry picked comparisons to Winfield and Molitor. I just fleshed out the stats to paint a more complete picture.

Since you didn't quote the original post I had no way of knowing you were responding to Matt.

Molitor and Winfield were very good hitters who had very long careers. I haven't combed over their stats in great detail, but I think most people would agree, that at the peak of their career Mauer was more special. Was it enough to get into the Hall? Maybe not, but there is an argument for it. I think too much emphasis is put on career long counting stats. I'm more interested in peak greatness, especially when that greatness is cut short due to injury and not just a flame out.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan
Post #: 240
RE: Twins off-season - 12/30/2023 10:35:47 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 77901
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		You also have to look at postseasons.

Molitor and Winfield both played in two WS - each winning one.

Mauer has 11 hits in 10 postseason games.

Puckett isn't in the Hall without his WS wins.
Post #: 241
RE: Twins off-season - 12/31/2023 3:34:28 PM  2 votes
twinsfan


Posts: 63623
Joined: 12/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

You also have to look at postseasons.

Molitor and Winfield both played in two WS - each winning one.

Mauer has 11 hits in 10 postseason games.

Puckett isn't in the Hall without his WS wins.

You are gonna discount Mauer because of 10 postseason games? That's stupid.

_____________________________

“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

-Me
Post #: 242
RE: Twins off-season - 12/31/2023 3:37:13 PM   
twinsfan


Posts: 63623
Joined: 12/21/2009
Status: offline 		https://www.si.com/fannation/bringmethesports/twins/joe-mauer-remains-on-track-to-be-inducted-into-the-hall-of-fame

It's happening.

Gonna be one hell of a class with Beltre and Mauer as first year inductees.

_____________________________

“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

-Me
Post #: 243
RE: Twins off-season - 12/31/2023 5:12:30 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45014
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

You also have to look at postseasons.

Molitor and Winfield both played in two WS - each winning one.

Mauer has 11 hits in 10 postseason games.

Puckett isn't in the Hall without his WS wins.

You are gonna discount Mauer because of 10 postseason games? That's stupid.

No, because his career numbers combined with a lack of playoff success don't amount to a HOF career.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 244
RE: Twins off-season - 12/31/2023 9:59:18 PM   
twinsfan


Posts: 63623
Joined: 12/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

You also have to look at postseasons.

Molitor and Winfield both played in two WS - each winning one.

Mauer has 11 hits in 10 postseason games.

Puckett isn't in the Hall without his WS wins.

You are gonna discount Mauer because of 10 postseason games? That's stupid.

No, because his career numbers combined with a lack of playoff success don't amount to a HOF career.

Wanna bet?

_____________________________

“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

-Me
Post #: 245
RE: Twins off-season - 12/31/2023 10:00:03 PM  1 votes
twinsfan


Posts: 63623
Joined: 12/21/2009
Status: offline 		I love being right. Especially when Tim is wrong.

_____________________________

“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

-Me
Post #: 246
RE: Twins off-season - 1/1/2024 9:27:42 AM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45014
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

You also have to look at postseasons.

Molitor and Winfield both played in two WS - each winning one.

Mauer has 11 hits in 10 postseason games.

Puckett isn't in the Hall without his WS wins.

You are gonna discount Mauer because of 10 postseason games? That's stupid.

No, because his career numbers combined with a lack of playoff success don't amount to a HOF career.

Wanna bet?

Nope. He may be Inducted, but that doesn't mean he actually deserves it. The voters have a long history of selecting undeserving players like Bill Mazeroski, Luis Apparicio and Rabbit Maranville. The HOF has become the Hall of You Really Don’t Have to be All That Special.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 247
RE: Twins off-season - 1/2/2024 7:47:28 AM   
bstinger


Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

You also have to look at postseasons.

Molitor and Winfield both played in two WS - each winning one.

Mauer has 11 hits in 10 postseason games.

Puckett isn't in the Hall without his WS wins.

You are gonna discount Mauer because of 10 postseason games? That's stupid.

No, because his career numbers combined with a lack of playoff success don't amount to a HOF career.

Wanna bet?

Nope. He may be Inducted, but that doesn't mean he actually deserves it. The voters have a long history of selecting undeserving players like Bill Mazeroski, Luis Apparicio and Rabbit Maranville. The HOF has become the Hall of You Really Don’t Have to be All That Special.

If you feel that strongly about it, put up a pole barn in the backyard and call it "The Hall of Ballplayers approved by the Bastard" or something similar. You can charge admission to everyone who cares about your choices.

Aren't there more important things to concern yourself with?

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan
Post #: 248
RE: Twins off-season - 1/2/2024 7:50:08 AM   
bstinger


Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

You also have to look at postseasons.

Molitor and Winfield both played in two WS - each winning one.

Mauer has 11 hits in 10 postseason games.

Puckett isn't in the Hall without his WS wins.

Agree that it doesn't help him.

Does he get an * for 1 more because of Cuzzi? Who knows what kind of success that would've sparked?

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan
Post #: 249
RE: Twins off-season - 1/2/2024 8:21:27 AM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45014
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

You also have to look at postseasons.

Molitor and Winfield both played in two WS - each winning one.

Mauer has 11 hits in 10 postseason games.

Puckett isn't in the Hall without his WS wins.

You are gonna discount Mauer because of 10 postseason games? That's stupid.

No, because his career numbers combined with a lack of playoff success don't amount to a HOF career.

Wanna bet?

Nope. He may be Inducted, but that doesn't mean he actually deserves it. The voters have a long history of selecting undeserving players like Bill Mazeroski, Luis Apparicio and Rabbit Maranville. The HOF has become the Hall of You Really Don’t Have to be All That Special.

If you feel that strongly about it, put up a pole barn in the backyard and call it "The Hall of Ballplayers approved by the Bastard" or something similar. You can charge admission to everyone who cares about your choices.

Aren't there more important things to concern yourself with?

Matt brought up the topic and we're debating it. Last time I checked, this is still a baseball forum.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 250
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