quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Somehow may end up ok...Ober, Ryan can maybe get to #2 status and Festa and Raya in the minors are looking good plus there is a slight chance the SP we got on the cheap from Seattle could hold up and revisit his 2021 season.

These are all key elements of the Twins strategy of hope.

Ryan and Ober are the keys to the whole strategy. Ryan was cruising along and looking like someone who could even garner some Cy Young votes through his complete game shutout. Then it all fell apart. The claim is that Ryan pulled his groin warming up for the Atlanta game and hid it from the team through several starts, while he tried to push through it. The injury allegedly caused a change in his mechanics that flattened out his off-speed pitches, turning them into perpetual gopher balls. Worth noting, his fastball continued to be one of the biggest swing and miss pitches in baseball.

Ober was having a similar season to Ryan. Just cruising until he hit the wall...hard. He pitched 165 innings last year after only pitching 72 the year before. His previous high for innings pitched in a season was 108.

The Twins HOPE Ryan's problems were 100% due to his groing injury and another off-season trip to the pitching academy will improve his secondary pitches.

The Twins HOPE Ober will be up to the workload of a full major league season now that he has reached a high triple digit level and won't fade late.

The Twins HOPE DeSclafini will regain a pre-injury form from 3 or so years ago.

The Twins Hope that Varland (with the additional relievers I now agree that Varland at AAA may happen) or SWR will stretch out and be ready in case DeSclafini proves to be another scrap heap, rag arm failure.

Nothing wrong with being hopeful.

Especially if they had added a surefire #2 on top of the hopefuls.

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Somehow may end up ok...Ober, Ryan can maybe get to #2 status and Festa and Raya in the minors are looking good plus there is a slight chance the SP we got on the cheap from Seattle could hold up and revisit his 2021 season.

These are all key elements of the Twins strategy of hope.

Ryan and Ober are the keys to the whole strategy. Ryan was cruising along and looking like someone who could even garner some Cy Young votes through his complete game shutout. Then it all fell apart. The claim is that Ryan pulled his groin warming up for the Atlanta game and hid it from the team through several starts, while he tried to push through it. The injury allegedly caused a change in his mechanics that flattened out his off-speed pitches, turning them into perpetual gopher balls. Worth noting, his fastball continued to be one of the biggest swing and miss pitches in baseball.

Ober was having a similar season to Ryan. Just cruising until he hit the wall...hard. He pitched 165 innings last year after only pitching 72 the year before. His previous high for innings pitched in a season was 108.

The Twins HOPE Ryan's problems were 100% due to his groing injury and another off-season trip to the pitching academy will improve his secondary pitches.

The Twins HOPE Ober will be up to the workload of a full major league season now that he has reached a high triple digit level and won't fade late.

The Twins HOPE DeSclafini will regain a pre-injury form from 3 or so years ago.

The Twins Hope that Varland (with the additional relievers I now agree that Varland at AAA may happen) or SWR will stretch out and be ready in case DeSclafini proves to be another scrap heap, rag arm failure.

Nothing wrong with being hopeful.

Especially if they had added a surefire #2 on top of the hopefuls.

That would have been great.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Regarding Poland's "Other ways to win" comment.

Yes there certainly are. But he presents a false dichotomy here. It suggests you either heavily emphasize things like scouting, analytics, player development to get better, or you just build your roster by throwing money at it.

Why not both?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Regarding Poland's "Other ways to win" comment.

Yes there certainly are. But he presents a false dichotomy here. It suggests you either heavily emphasize things like scouting, analytics, player development to get better, or you just build your roster by throwing money at it.

Why not both?

I wonder if anyone countered Joe on being careful wanting to be the same as TB.....TB drew 550k fewer fans for attendance in 2023 in a year the Twins were disappointed with their attendance. You need excited fans and players that fans want to see....Santana, Topa, and Descini don't increase that needle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Regarding Poland's "Other ways to win" comment.

Yes there certainly are. But he presents a false dichotomy here. It suggests you either heavily emphasize things like scouting, analytics, player development to get better, or you just build your roster by throwing money at it.

Why not both?

I wonder if anyone countered Joe on being careful wanting to be the same as TB.....TB drew 550k fewer fans for attendance in 2023 in a year the Twins were disappointed with their attendance. You need excited fans and players that fans want to see....Santana, Topa, and Descini don't increase that needle.

I've said this dozens of times. You can't run a professional sports team like a normal business (bank). Especially in a place where there is heavy competition for your entertainment dollar. Minneapolis/St Paul have Every major sports league, A theater community that is second only to New York, a thriving music scene, fishing, camping, MOA, comedy clubs, etc etc etc. If you put a team that sucks on the field you can't expect people to show up. Cutting payroll says you don't care if the team sucks. Only the biggest diehards will keep coming. Why the hated Yankees do so well to begin with is they go all out to put a winner on the field because they know if your team is more likely to win, more people will come, more people will watch on TV, more people will listen on the radio. And that means a lot more revenue. The bankers don't seem to get that a sports team has to be a completely different business model to succeed continously.

Now I am not saying we should spend like the Yankees, but spend accordingly to be sure to have the best team on the field and not just base your model on hopes dreams and catching lightning in a bottle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Regarding Poland's "Other ways to win" comment.

Yes there certainly are. But he presents a false dichotomy here. It suggests you either heavily emphasize things like scouting, analytics, player development to get better, or you just build your roster by throwing money at it.

Why not both?

I wonder if anyone countered Joe on being careful wanting to be the same as TB.....TB drew 550k fewer fans for attendance in 2023 in a year the Twins were disappointed with their attendance. You need excited fans and players that fans want to see....Santana, Topa, and Descini don't increase that needle.

I've said this dozens of times. You can't run a professional sports team like a normal business (bank). Especially in a place where there is heavy competition for your entertainment dollar. Minneapolis/St Paul have Every major sports league, A theater community that is second only to New York, a thriving music scene, fishing, camping, MOA, comedy clubs, etc etc etc. If you put a team that sucks on the field you can't expect people to show up. Cutting payroll says you don't care if the team sucks. Only the biggest diehards will keep coming. Why the hated Yankees do so well to begin with is they go all out to put a winner on the field because they know if your team is more likely to win, more people will come, more people will watch on TV, more people will listen on the radio. And that means a lot more revenue. The bankers don't seem to get that a sports team has to be a completely different business model to succeed continously.

Now I am not saying we should spend like the Yankees, but spend accordingly to be sure to have the best team on the field and not just base your model on hopes dreams and catching lightning in a bottle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Regarding Poland's "Other ways to win" comment.

Yes there certainly are. But he presents a false dichotomy here. It suggests you either heavily emphasize things like scouting, analytics, player development to get better, or you just build your roster by throwing money at it.

Why not both?

I wonder if anyone countered Joe on being careful wanting to be the same as TB.....TB drew 550k fewer fans for attendance in 2023 in a year the Twins were disappointed with their attendance. You need excited fans and players that fans want to see....Santana, Topa, and Descini don't increase that needle.

I've said this dozens of times. You can't run a professional sports team like a normal business (bank). Especially in a place where there is heavy competition for your entertainment dollar. Minneapolis/St Paul have Every major sports league, A theater community that is second only to New York, a thriving music scene, fishing, camping, MOA, comedy clubs, etc etc etc. If you put a team that sucks on the field you can't expect people to show up. Cutting payroll says you don't care if the team sucks. Only the biggest diehards will keep coming. Why the hated Yankees do so well to begin with is they go all out to put a winner on the field because they know if your team is more likely to win, more people will come, more people will watch on TV, more people will listen on the radio. And that means a lot more revenue. The bankers don't seem to get that a sports team has to be a completely different business model to succeed continously.

Now I am not saying we should spend like the Yankees, but spend accordingly to be sure to have the best team on the field and not just base your model on hopes dreams and catching lightning in a bottle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Regarding Poland's "Other ways to win" comment.

Yes there certainly are. But he presents a false dichotomy here. It suggests you either heavily emphasize things like scouting, analytics, player development to get better, or you just build your roster by throwing money at it.

Why not both?

I wonder if anyone countered Joe on being careful wanting to be the same as TB.....TB drew 550k fewer fans for attendance in 2023 in a year the Twins were disappointed with their attendance. You need excited fans and players that fans want to see....Santana, Topa, and Descini don't increase that needle.

I've said this dozens of times. You can't run a professional sports team like a normal business (bank). Especially in a place where there is heavy competition for your entertainment dollar. Minneapolis/St Paul have Every major sports league, A theater community that is second only to New York, a thriving music scene, fishing, camping, MOA, comedy clubs, etc etc etc. If you put a team that sucks on the field you can't expect people to show up. Cutting payroll says you don't care if the team sucks. Only the biggest diehards will keep coming. Why the hated Yankees do so well to begin with is they go all out to put a winner on the field because they know if your team is more likely to win, more people will come, more people will watch on TV, more people will listen on the radio. And that means a lot more revenue. The bankers don't seem to get that a sports team has to be a completely different business model to succeed continously.

Now I am not saying we should spend like the Yankees, but spend accordingly to be sure to have the best team on the field and not just base your model on hopes dreams and catching lightning in a bottle.

Toronto has a better theater community than Minneapolis/St Paul.

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Regarding Poland's "Other ways to win" comment.

Yes there certainly are. But he presents a false dichotomy here. It suggests you either heavily emphasize things like scouting, analytics, player development to get better, or you just build your roster by throwing money at it.

Why not both?

I wonder if anyone countered Joe on being careful wanting to be the same as TB.....TB drew 550k fewer fans for attendance in 2023 in a year the Twins were disappointed with their attendance. You need excited fans and players that fans want to see....Santana, Topa, and Descini don't increase that needle.

I've said this dozens of times. You can't run a professional sports team like a normal business (bank). Especially in a place where there is heavy competition for your entertainment dollar. Minneapolis/St Paul have Every major sports league, A theater community that is second only to New York, a thriving music scene, fishing, camping, MOA, comedy clubs, etc etc etc. If you put a team that sucks on the field you can't expect people to show up. Cutting payroll says you don't care if the team sucks. Only the biggest diehards will keep coming. Why the hated Yankees do so well to begin with is they go all out to put a winner on the field because they know if your team is more likely to win, more people will come, more people will watch on TV, more people will listen on the radio. And that means a lot more revenue. The bankers don't seem to get that a sports team has to be a completely different business model to succeed continously.

Now I am not saying we should spend like the Yankees, but spend accordingly to be sure to have the best team on the field and not just base your model on hopes dreams and catching lightning in a bottle.

Toronto has a better theater community than Minneapolis/St Paul.

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Regarding Poland's "Other ways to win" comment.

Yes there certainly are. But he presents a false dichotomy here. It suggests you either heavily emphasize things like scouting, analytics, player development to get better, or you just build your roster by throwing money at it.

Why not both?

I wonder if anyone countered Joe on being careful wanting to be the same as TB.....TB drew 550k fewer fans for attendance in 2023 in a year the Twins were disappointed with their attendance. You need excited fans and players that fans want to see....Santana, Topa, and Descini don't increase that needle.

I've said this dozens of times. You can't run a professional sports team like a normal business (bank). Especially in a place where there is heavy competition for your entertainment dollar. Minneapolis/St Paul have Every major sports league, A theater community that is second only to New York, a thriving music scene, fishing, camping, MOA, comedy clubs, etc etc etc. If you put a team that sucks on the field you can't expect people to show up. Cutting payroll says you don't care if the team sucks. Only the biggest diehards will keep coming. Why the hated Yankees do so well to begin with is they go all out to put a winner on the field because they know if your team is more likely to win, more people will come, more people will watch on TV, more people will listen on the radio. And that means a lot more revenue. The bankers don't seem to get that a sports team has to be a completely different business model to succeed continously.

Now I am not saying we should spend like the Yankees, but spend accordingly to be sure to have the best team on the field and not just base your model on hopes dreams and catching lightning in a bottle.

Toronto has a better theater community than Minneapolis/St Paul.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Regarding Poland's "Other ways to win" comment.

Yes there certainly are. But he presents a false dichotomy here. It suggests you either heavily emphasize things like scouting, analytics, player development to get better, or you just build your roster by throwing money at it.

Why not both?

I wonder if anyone countered Joe on being careful wanting to be the same as TB.....TB drew 550k fewer fans for attendance in 2023 in a year the Twins were disappointed with their attendance. You need excited fans and players that fans want to see....Santana, Topa, and Descini don't increase that needle.

I've said this dozens of times. You can't run a professional sports team like a normal business (bank). Especially in a place where there is heavy competition for your entertainment dollar. Minneapolis/St Paul have Every major sports league, A theater community that is second only to New York, a thriving music scene, fishing, camping, MOA, comedy clubs, etc etc etc. If you put a team that sucks on the field you can't expect people to show up. Cutting payroll says you don't care if the team sucks. Only the biggest diehards will keep coming. Why the hated Yankees do so well to begin with is they go all out to put a winner on the field because they know if your team is more likely to win, more people will come, more people will watch on TV, more people will listen on the radio. And that means a lot more revenue. The bankers don't seem to get that a sports team has to be a completely different business model to succeed continously.

Now I am not saying we should spend like the Yankees, but spend accordingly to be sure to have the best team on the field and not just base your model on hopes dreams and catching lightning in a bottle.

Toronto has a better theater community than Minneapolis/St Paul.

I've heard the acting is horrible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I think the Wilf's actually want to win. They just don't know what the hell they are doing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Examples of Media in the last day that isn't going to stand pat on payroll (who usually say nothing):

Aaron Gleeman
@AaronGleeman
Relative to the average MLB payroll, the Twins' current 2024 payroll is their lowest since the final season at the Metrodome in 2009.
Twins' payroll in 2009 was 74% of the MLB average.
Twins' current $124 million payroll is 75% of the $164 million MLB average, per FanGraphs.

Cody Pirkl
@CodyPirkl
The #MNTwins also have the 8th richest owner in the MLB by net worth, and Minnesota is the 15th largest market in the MLB.

quote:

The 8th richest ownership group in baseball in the 15th largest market had their highest payroll ever last year. Falvine called it unprecedented in team history, yet it was only 17th in MLB last year. To recap...8th richest, 15th biggest, 17th highest payroll....and the Twins make it sound like that was beyond their means.

And this year they are 19th

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Examples of Media in the last day that isn't going to stand pat on payroll (who usually say nothing):

Aaron Gleeman
@AaronGleeman
Relative to the average MLB payroll, the Twins' current 2024 payroll is their lowest since the final season at the Metrodome in 2009.
Twins' payroll in 2009 was 74% of the MLB average.
Twins' current $124 million payroll is 75% of the $164 million MLB average, per FanGraphs.


Cody Pirkl
@CodyPirkl
The #MNTwins also have the 8th richest owner in the MLB by net worth, and Minnesota is the 15th largest market in the MLB.


Ted
@tlschwerz
The #MNTwins could’ve gone this route, but instead chose more money with
@BallySportsNOR
to spend less on the team.

Next year, they’ll get less money from broadcasting too…
Arizona Diamondbacks
@Dbacks
·
16h
Introducing http://DBACKS.TV!
Watch your reigning NL champs all season long for just $99.99: http://dbacks.com/watch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Examples of Media in the last day that isn't going to stand pat on payroll (who usually say nothing):

Aaron Gleeman
@AaronGleeman
Relative to the average MLB payroll, the Twins' current 2024 payroll is their lowest since the final season at the Metrodome in 2009.
Twins' payroll in 2009 was 74% of the MLB average.
Twins' current $124 million payroll is 75% of the $164 million MLB average, per FanGraphs.


Cody Pirkl
@CodyPirkl
The #MNTwins also have the 8th richest owner in the MLB by net worth, and Minnesota is the 15th largest market in the MLB.


Ted
@tlschwerz
The #MNTwins could’ve gone this route, but instead chose more money with
@BallySportsNOR
to spend less on the team.

Next year, they’ll get less money from broadcasting too…
Arizona Diamondbacks
@Dbacks
·
16h
Introducing http://DBACKS.TV!
Watch your reigning NL champs all season long for just $99.99: http://dbacks.com/watch

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Examples of Media in the last day that isn't going to stand pat on payroll (who usually say nothing):

Aaron Gleeman
@AaronGleeman
Relative to the average MLB payroll, the Twins' current 2024 payroll is their lowest since the final season at the Metrodome in 2009.
Twins' payroll in 2009 was 74% of the MLB average.
Twins' current $124 million payroll is 75% of the $164 million MLB average, per FanGraphs.

Cody Pirkl
@CodyPirkl
The #MNTwins also have the 8th richest owner in the MLB by net worth, and Minnesota is the 15th largest market in the MLB.

The 8th richest ownership group in baseball in the 15th largest market had their highest payroll ever last year. Falvine called it unprecedented in team history, yet it was only 17th in MLB last year. To recap...8th richest, 15th biggest, 17th highest payroll....and the Twins make it sound like that was beyond their means.

And this year they are 19th

quote:

You know, for all this big talk, maybe if some of you put some skin in the game financially, the Twins would have the revenue needed to have bigger player payrolls. Go to some games. Buy some concessions. Buy tickets for family and friends as gifts.