RE: 2024 Draft

Talk Vikes and Other MN Sports

Forums Register Login My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums

Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ Ticket List Log Out

RE: 2024 Draft

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [The Minnesota Vikings] >> Vikes Talk >> RE: 2024 Draft

Page: << < prev 9 10 [11] 12 13 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/9/2024 8:47:22 PM

Chris Olson

Posts: 6795
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Saratoga Springs, NY
Status: offline

From the poll at the bottom of the article:

"Should the Vikings trade draft picks #11 and #42 and a 4th round pick this year, along with their 2025 first- and third-round picks for the Commanders #2 pick this year and draft Jayden Daniels?"

That would be exciting if nothing else!

Post #: 251

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/9/2024 9:45:16 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17916
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Just keep in mind, you and Sims could GUESS right or wrong. Its still a wild guess.

I don't think it's a wild guess. I really believe Simms is good at this.

Nobody picking Zach Wilson over Lawrence is good at this.

He’s in the same ballpark as kiper and zierlein and a bunch of others. l
do give him credit for being willing to go against the grain … like he did with Wilson and he’s doing this year with Nix and Maye.

Seems more like shtick than science.

As I’ve mentioned, I have a buddy who follows college football obsessively who completely agrees with him on Nix.

Nix has to prove he's not Colt Brennan 2.0.

Gaudy college numbers (45 TDs, 3 INTs, 77%), but it was all screens and RPO. Average air on Nix throws was 6 yards. Everyone else was 9+.

How does Nix prove this? In college he did what Oregon asked of him. It doesn't mean he can or can't do everything else. Teams will need to work him out to see how he looks running their playbook.

He obviously wasn't able to do what Auburn was asking so he transferred and was able to dink and dunk if that's the type of qb you favor.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 252

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/9/2024 9:52:30 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17916
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

From the poll at the bottom of the article:

"Should the Vikings trade draft picks #11 and #42 and a 4th round pick this year, along with their 2025 first- and third-round picks for the Commanders #2 pick this year and draft Jayden Daniels?"

That would be exciting if nothing else!

A lot of top 5 qb's bust. Just think Mitch Trubisky, Zach Wilson, and Trey Lance. I'd rather take my chances with Penix and his knees than trading draft capital for a wing and a prayer.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 253

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/9/2024 10:26:19 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 44972
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

From the poll at the bottom of the article:

"Should the Vikings trade draft picks #11 and #42 and a 4th round pick this year, along with their 2025 first- and third-round picks for the Commanders #2 pick this year and draft Jayden Daniels?"

That would be exciting if nothing else!

A lot of top 5 qb's bust. Just think Mitch Trubisky, Zach Wilson, and Trey Lance. I'd rather take my chances with Penix and his knees than trading draft capital for a wing and a prayer.

You don't improve your odds of hitting on a QB by settling for the guy who falls to you. Pennix's knees, age and lack of mobility make him the guy you settle for. I'd rather spend the capital and move up for better odds.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 254

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/9/2024 10:37:06 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77787
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

I don’t move up for Maye or McCarthy, but I do for Daniels.

Post #: 255

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 9:40:49 AM

Murph

Posts: 2013
Joined: 4/20/2008
From: PNW
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I don’t move up for Maye or McCarthy, but I do for Daniels.

Same here.

Williams and/or Daniels are the only two I'd move up for more than a couple of spots.

_____________________________

Hey Wilf's, let's build a "Perennial Super Bowl contender" not a "perennial playoff contender".

Post #: 256

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 9:55:27 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 44972
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine
I don’t move up for Maye or McCarthy, but I do for Daniels.

Same here.

Williams and/or Daniels are the only two I'd move up for more than a couple of spots.

For me it's a matter of how far I would move up depending on the QB. I wouldn't move up to #3 for McCarthy or Maye. I think moving up to somewhere around 8 to get one of them is preferable to standing pat and taking Pennix.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 257

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 10:01:32 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17916
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

Per the article Williams and Daniels are the only qb's that are top ten worthy.

The comments about McCarthy scare the crap out of me. At #11 would be an enormous gamble as that he could be the next Trey Lance.

The only thing I'm absolutely sure of is that Kwesi will screw this up.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 258

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 10:17:21 AM

Chris Olson

Posts: 6795
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Saratoga Springs, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I don’t move up for Maye or McCarthy, but I do for Daniels.

Same here.

Williams and/or Daniels are the only two I'd move up for more than a couple of spots.

would you give up the first, second and 4th rd picks this year and first and third next year for Daniels?

That's a lot...but he is special, I think...

you are nothing without a great QB

Post #: 259

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 10:26:59 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77787
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

This is a pretty great read as well:

Refining my QB Opinion – What Works?

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2024/2/15/24074409/refining-my-qb-opinion-what-works

Post #: 260

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 10:43:04 AM

marty

Posts: 12993
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online

Derrick Klassen says Williams and Maye are the top 2, and then there is a gap when you start looking at some of the other ones.

He says that both Williams and Maye didn't have much to work with (with Williams also having a very bad defense), while McCarthy and Daniels had plenty of talent surrounding them.

What he liked best about Maye was his pocket presence, he felt that he was the quickest at recognizing what to do in the pocket:

https://youtu.be/ijYwL7m7Ld4?si=Hj3brvSAYZqkhCq2

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 261

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 11:26:41 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5870
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine
I don’t move up for Maye or McCarthy, but I do for Daniels.

Same here.

Williams and/or Daniels are the only two I'd move up for more than a couple of spots.

For me it's a matter of how far I would move up depending on the QB. I wouldn't move up to #3 for McCarthy or Maye. I think moving up to somewhere around 8 to get one of them is preferable to standing pat and taking Pennix.

Agree ... this is also where I stand for the next 5 minutes.

I 'sell out' for Williams or Daniels ... IMO the risk of success is slightly more than the risk of failure ... if you're going to go for it, it has to be under that formula as a minimum.

The Giants #6 and Falcons #8 are likely to pick off one if not two of the second tier guys. With Denver #12 and Raiders #13 possibly trying to jump us into the #10 Jets spot if not higher.

I can live with a strong push for Maye or McCarthy although I think that will take getting to #7 Titans ... depends on if and what that takes. (Atl at #8 probably won't trade with us, Chi at 9 won't trade with us (unless we make an unreasonable offer) – in fact, if I was Chi I would thoroughly enjoy a trade with Den or LV to deprive us of one of the QBs.

In most years, I would stay put because second tier guys are usually just barely first rd guys getting pushed up ... I think Maye and McCarthy (and Penix without the injuries) are strong first rounders. We need one, period.

I'm all over the place with Nix.

I don't care what happens before the draft ... we have to land one of the six in the draft – I hope its under reasonable circumstances but even if we get exploited by the situation, that will be easier to live with than waiting until next year to start this conversation all over again.

Post #: 262

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 12:08:09 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33742
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Just keep in mind, you and Sims could GUESS right or wrong. Its still a wild guess.

I don't think it's a wild guess. I really believe Simms is good at this.

Nobody picking Zach Wilson over Lawrence is good at this.

He’s in the same ballpark as kiper and zierlein and a bunch of others. l
do give him credit for being willing to go against the grain … like he did with Wilson and he’s doing this year with Nix and Maye.

Seems more like shtick than science.

As I’ve mentioned, I have a buddy who follows college football obsessively who completely agrees with him on Nix.

He also had Mond as one of the 3 best qb's in that class

First of all he had Mond 4th. 2nd duh he's going to get some wrong. He's right more than anybody else.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 263

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 12:09:51 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33742
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

From the poll at the bottom of the article:

"Should the Vikings trade draft picks #11 and #42 and a 4th round pick this year, along with their 2025 first- and third-round picks for the Commanders #2 pick this year and draft Jayden Daniels?"

That would be exciting if nothing else!

A lot of top 5 qb's bust. Just think Mitch Trubisky, Zach Wilson, and Trey Lance. I'd rather take my chances with Penix and his knees than trading draft capital for a wing and a prayer.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 264

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 12:23:43 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77787
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

From the poll at the bottom of the article:

"Should the Vikings trade draft picks #11 and #42 and a 4th round pick this year, along with their 2025 first- and third-round picks for the Commanders #2 pick this year and draft Jayden Daniels?"

That would be exciting if nothing else!

A lot of top 5 qb's bust. Just think Mitch Trubisky, Zach Wilson, and Trey Lance. I'd rather take my chances with Penix and his knees than trading draft capital for a wing and a prayer.

I don't think you can let fear enter the equation.

If you like a guy, go get him. You job is likely going to hinge on who you get as your QB, so do whatever you can to get the guy yiu think is the best. Not the last man standing.

And you might as well trade future picks. If you nail the QB pick, you can survive giving up those picks. If you miss on the QB, you likely won't be here to draft anyways...

Post #: 265

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 12:41:35 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33742
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

From the poll at the bottom of the article:

"Should the Vikings trade draft picks #11 and #42 and a 4th round pick this year, along with their 2025 first- and third-round picks for the Commanders #2 pick this year and draft Jayden Daniels?"

That would be exciting if nothing else!

A lot of top 5 qb's bust. Just think Mitch Trubisky, Zach Wilson, and Trey Lance. I'd rather take my chances with Penix and his knees than trading draft capital for a wing and a prayer.

I don't think you can let fear enter the equation.

If you like a guy, go get him. You job is likely going to hinge on who you get as your QB, so do whatever you can to get the guy yiu think is the best. Not the last man standing.

And you might as well trade future picks. If you nail the QB pick, you can survive giving up those picks. If you miss on the QB, you likely won't be here to draft anyways...

All this do whatever it takes to get one player in the draft that you like is ridiculous. There comes a point where it's too expensive. What if the cost is Jefferson, Darrisaw, Addison, and our next 10 first round picks. If that is what it takes do you do it? No and sure that's ridiculous, but it's just to prove the point that you don't do whatever it takes no matter what. There is a point it becomes too expensive.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 266

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 1:26:25 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 44972
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine
I don’t move up for Maye or McCarthy, but I do for Daniels.

Same here.

Williams and/or Daniels are the only two I'd move up for more than a couple of spots.

For me it's a matter of how far I would move up depending on the QB. I wouldn't move up to #3 for McCarthy or Maye. I think moving up to somewhere around 8 to get one of them is preferable to standing pat and taking Pennix.

Agree ... this is also where I stand for the next 5 minutes.

I 'sell out' for Williams or Daniels ... IMO the risk of success is slightly more than the risk of failure ... if you're going to go for it, it has to be under that formula as a minimum.

The Giants #6 and Falcons #8 are likely to pick off one if not two of the second tier guys. With Denver #12 and Raiders #13 possibly trying to jump us into the #10 Jets spot if not higher.

I can live with a strong push for Maye or McCarthy although I think that will take getting to #7 Titans ... depends on if and what that takes. (Atl at #8 probably won't trade with us, Chi at 9 won't trade with us (unless we make an unreasonable offer) – in fact, if I was Chi I would thoroughly enjoy a trade with Den or LV to deprive us of one of the QBs.

In most years, I would stay put because second tier guys are usually just barely first rd guys getting pushed up ... I think Maye and McCarthy (and Penix without the injuries) are strong first rounders. We need one, period.

I'm all over the place with Nix.

I don't care what happens before the draft ... we have to land one of the six in the draft – I hope its under reasonable circumstances but even if we get exploited by the situation, that will be easier to live with than waiting until next year to start this conversation all over again.

Atlanta is the X-factor. If they sign Cousins, as is rumored, they not only won't be looking QB, they could become a willing trade partner.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 267

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 1:35:43 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 44972
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

From the poll at the bottom of the article:

"Should the Vikings trade draft picks #11 and #42 and a 4th round pick this year, along with their 2025 first- and third-round picks for the Commanders #2 pick this year and draft Jayden Daniels?"

That would be exciting if nothing else!

A lot of top 5 qb's bust. Just think Mitch Trubisky, Zach Wilson, and Trey Lance. I'd rather take my chances with Penix and his knees than trading draft capital for a wing and a prayer.

I don't think you can let fear enter the equation.

If you like a guy, go get him. You job is likely going to hinge on who you get as your QB, so do whatever you can to get the guy yiu think is the best. Not the last man standing.

And you might as well trade future picks. If you nail the QB pick, you can survive giving up those picks. If you miss on the QB, you likely won't be here to draft anyways...

All this do whatever it takes to get one player in the draft that you like is ridiculous. There comes a point where it's too expensive. What if the cost is Jefferson, Darrisaw, Addison, and our next 10 first round picks. If that is what it takes do you do it? No and sure that's ridiculous, but it's just to prove the point that you don't do whatever it takes no matter what. There is a point it becomes too expensive.

That is not what he said and you know it. David's point was that if you identify someone you think is the guy, you shouldn't be afraid to get him because he might bust. Nobody has advocated selling the farm to move up 4 or 5 spots. Stating a ridiculous hypothetical doesn't make your point. There are value charts that govern what it takes to move up.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 268

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 1:39:28 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 44972
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Just keep in mind, you and Sims could GUESS right or wrong. Its still a wild guess.

I don't think it's a wild guess. I really believe Simms is good at this.

Nobody picking Zach Wilson over Lawrence is good at this.

He’s in the same ballpark as kiper and zierlein and a bunch of others. l
do give him credit for being willing to go against the grain … like he did with Wilson and he’s doing this year with Nix and Maye.

Seems more like shtick than science.

As I’ve mentioned, I have a buddy who follows college football obsessively who completely agrees with him on Nix.

He also had Mond as one of the 3 best qb's in that class

First of all he had Mond 4th. 2nd duh he's going to get some wrong. He's right more than anybody else.

He said Mond was a top 20 player in the draft. To say he got it wrong is an understatement. There is also no data to prove that Simms is any better than any other self appointed QB expert.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 269

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 4:43:59 PM

Todd M

Posts: 40470
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

Unless we can get to 2 the Daniel’s dream is done.

Get to 5 and choose between JJ, Maye, or Penix. They might all be gone at 11.

I don’t want the runt of the litter, Nix. The 6th freaking option. Though Nix Six does have a ring to it.

Post #: 270

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 9:31:15 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28395
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

From the poll at the bottom of the article:

"Should the Vikings trade draft picks #11 and #42 and a 4th round pick this year, along with their 2025 first- and third-round picks for the Commanders #2 pick this year and draft Jayden Daniels?"

That would be exciting if nothing else!

A non-starter. DOA. Actually an embarrassment to fans who see history and reality.

1st rounders or GTFO.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 3/10/2024 9:48:43 PM >

Post #: 271

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 9:33:06 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28395
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Just keep in mind, you and Sims could GUESS right or wrong. Its still a wild guess.

I don't think it's a wild guess. I really believe Simms is good at this.

Nobody picking Zach Wilson over Lawrence is good at this.

He’s in the same ballpark as kiper and zierlein and a bunch of others. l
do give him credit for being willing to go against the grain … like he did with Wilson and he’s doing this year with Nix and Maye.

Seems more like shtick than science.

As I’ve mentioned, I have a buddy who follows college football obsessively who completely agrees with him on Nix.

Nix has to prove he's not Colt Brennan 2.0.

Gaudy college numbers (45 TDs, 3 INTs, 77%), but it was all screens and RPO. Average air on Nix throws was 6 yards. Everyone else was 9+.

How does Nix prove this? In college he did what Oregon asked of him. It doesn't mean he can or can't do everything else. Teams will need to work him out to see how he looks running their playbook.

He obviously wasn't able to do what Auburn was asking so he transferred and was able to dink and dunk if that's the type of qb you favor.

Yep. Another guy who couldn't hack a pro offense so he transferred and put up gaudy stats.

Post #: 272

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 9:34:12 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28395
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I don’t move up for Maye or McCarthy, but I do for Daniels.

Same here.

Williams and/or Daniels are the only two I'd move up for more than a couple of spots.

Same.

Post #: 273

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 9:39:01 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28395
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

i kinda think we'll see all 6 go in the top 11

i hope we are not the ones still taking a QB at 11, because it will feel way too much like the Ponder pick

but that is probably what will happen

Fans of QB needy teams like the Vikings may think that, but it will not happen.

Post #: 274

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/10/2024 9:44:58 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28395
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

From the poll at the bottom of the article:

"Should the Vikings trade draft picks #11 and #42 and a 4th round pick this year, along with their 2025 first- and third-round picks for the Commanders #2 pick this year and draft Jayden Daniels?"

That would be exciting if nothing else!

A lot of top 5 qb's bust. Just think Mitch Trubisky, Zach Wilson, and Trey Lance. I'd rather take my chances with Penix and his knees than trading draft capital for a wing and a prayer.

I don't think you can let fear enter the equation.

If you like a guy, go get him. You job is likely going to hinge on who you get as your QB, so do whatever you can to get the guy yiu think is the best. Not the last man standing.

And you might as well trade future picks. If you nail the QB pick, you can survive giving up those picks. If you miss on the QB, you likely won't be here to draft anyways...

All this do whatever it takes to get one player in the draft that you like is ridiculous. There comes a point where it's too expensive. What if the cost is Jefferson, Darrisaw, Addison, and our next 10 first round picks. If that is what it takes do you do it? No and sure that's ridiculous, but it's just to prove the point that you don't do whatever it takes no matter what. There is a point it becomes too expensive.