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RE: 2024 Draft

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RE: 2024 Draft - 3/11/2024 8:16:42 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40470
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Status: offline 		All bets are off in a year where QB goes 1,2,3.
Post #: 301
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/11/2024 8:18:01 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40470
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Status: offline 		Gun to my head I think getting to 5 for JJM is the most prudent move.
Post #: 302
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/11/2024 8:30:13 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33742
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I am guessing with the injury concerns, that Penix is most likely to get drafted in the 2nd round.

IF you're going to gamble on him, would it make sense to move back into the 20s and draft him there, after getting an extra pick or 2 for 11 ?

That's likely the play we make if we don't trade up. I bet we trade up.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 303
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/11/2024 8:33:25 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33742
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Gun to my head I think getting to 5 for JJM is the most prudent move.

What do you propose as the cost to trade up from 11 to 5? What if McCarthy is gone, but Maye is available?

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 304
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/11/2024 8:50:46 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40470
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Gun to my head I think getting to 5 for JJM is the most prudent move.

What do you propose as the cost to trade up from 11 to 5? What if McCarthy is gone, but Maye is available?


Maybe next years #1 and a 3rd?

And yes to Maye.
Post #: 305
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/12/2024 1:24:58 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33742
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Gun to my head I think getting to 5 for JJM is the most prudent move.

What do you propose as the cost to trade up from 11 to 5? What if McCarthy is gone, but Maye is available?


Maybe next years #1 and a 3rd?

And yes to Maye.

I suppose that's possible if you're including this year's 11th overall pick. Probably take next year's #2 instead of 3. Very good chance 1 of Maye or McCarthy will be available at 11 if we don't move up.
Do you believe either or both of them will be Super Bowl quality QBs?

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 3/12/2024 1:26:56 AM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 306
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/12/2024 7:55:13 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 22942
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Gun to my head I think getting to 5 for JJM is the most prudent move.

What do you propose as the cost to trade up from 11 to 5? What if McCarthy is gone, but Maye is available?


Maybe next years #1 and a 3rd?

And yes to Maye.

I suppose that's possible if you're including this year's 11th overall pick. Probably take next year's #2 instead of 3. Very good chance 1 of Maye or McCarthy will be available at 11 if we don't move up.
Do you believe either or both of them will be Super Bowl quality QBs?

I'm an absolute no on McCarthy. The first quarter of the semifinal game was all I needed to see.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 307
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/12/2024 10:57:31 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5870
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Gun to my head I think getting to 5 for JJM is the most prudent move.

What do you propose as the cost to trade up from 11 to 5? What if McCarthy is gone, but Maye is available?


Maybe next years #1 and a 3rd?

And yes to Maye.

I suppose that's possible if you're including this year's 11th overall pick. Probably take next year's #2 instead of 3. Very good chance 1 of Maye or McCarthy will be available at 11 if we don't move up.
Do you believe either or both of them will be Super Bowl quality QBs?

I'm an absolute no on McCarthy. The first quarter of the semifinal game was all I needed to see.

One quarter of football makes that about the smallest and most superficial evaluation of a player in the history of football.
Post #: 308
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/12/2024 11:01:22 AM   
Daniel Lee Young

 

Posts: 13818
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Post #: 309
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/12/2024 1:50:11 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5870
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Have you seen his podcasts?

I'd rather you take my eye out with a spoon.
Post #: 310
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/12/2024 1:54:06 PM   
Daniel Lee Young

 

Posts: 13818
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Have you seen his podcasts?

I'd rather you take my eye out with a spoon.

Yep…

_____________________________

"Thou shall not bear false witness”
I am WRATH, incarnate.
@RlyeeNicole’sDad
Post #: 311
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/12/2024 3:56:36 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27210
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Gun to my head I think getting to 5 for JJM is the most prudent move.

What do you propose as the cost to trade up from 11 to 5? What if McCarthy is gone, but Maye is available?


Maybe next years #1 and a 3rd?

And yes to Maye.

I suppose that's possible if you're including this year's 11th overall pick. Probably take next year's #2 instead of 3. Very good chance 1 of Maye or McCarthy will be available at 11 if we don't move up.
Do you believe either or both of them will be Super Bowl quality QBs?

I'm an absolute no on McCarthy. The first quarter of the semifinal game was all I needed to see.

HOF then?

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 312
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/13/2024 9:11:29 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 22942
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Gun to my head I think getting to 5 for JJM is the most prudent move.

What do you propose as the cost to trade up from 11 to 5? What if McCarthy is gone, but Maye is available?


Maybe next years #1 and a 3rd?

And yes to Maye.

I suppose that's possible if you're including this year's 11th overall pick. Probably take next year's #2 instead of 3. Very good chance 1 of Maye or McCarthy will be available at 11 if we don't move up.
Do you believe either or both of them will be Super Bowl quality QBs?

I'm an absolute no on McCarthy. The first quarter of the semifinal game was all I needed to see.

HOF then?

McCarthy had a sensational team around him. He doesn't strike me as a great NFL player.

Here is some of the other quarterbacks that won national titles over the past 20 years. It doesn't equate to greatness in the NFL:

Stetson Bennett
Mac Jones
Joe Burrow
Tua
Trevor Lawrence
Jalen Hurts
Deshaun Watson
Jake Coker
Cardale Jones
Jameis Winston
AJ McCarron
Cam Newton
Greg McElroy
Tim Tebow
Matt Flynn
Chris Leek
Vince Young
Matt Leinert
Matt Mauck
Craig Krenzel

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 313
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/13/2024 9:21:56 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33742
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Gun to my head I think getting to 5 for JJM is the most prudent move.

What do you propose as the cost to trade up from 11 to 5? What if McCarthy is gone, but Maye is available?


Maybe next years #1 and a 3rd?

And yes to Maye.

I suppose that's possible if you're including this year's 11th overall pick. Probably take next year's #2 instead of 3. Very good chance 1 of Maye or McCarthy will be available at 11 if we don't move up.
Do you believe either or both of them will be Super Bowl quality QBs?

I'm an absolute no on McCarthy. The first quarter of the semifinal game was all I needed to see.

HOF then?

McCarthy had a sensational team around him. He doesn't strike me as a great NFL player.

Here is some of the other quarterbacks that won national titles over the past 20 years. It doesn't equate to greatness in the NFL:

Stetson Bennett
Mac Jones
Joe Burrow
Tua
Trevor Lawrence
Jalen Hurts
Deshaun Watson
Jake Coker
Cardale Jones
Jameis Winston
AJ McCarron
Cam Newton
Greg McElroy
Tim Tebow
Matt Flynn
Chris Leek
Vince Young
Matt Leinert
Matt Mauck
Craig Krenzel

7 of those have had a lot of success. Way better than average success rate for QB draft picks.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 314
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/13/2024 9:29:43 AM   
marty


Posts: 12993
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		A lot of decent QBs who may have won a Super Bowl, IF they had a Dilfer-like Ravens supporting cast.

Interesting that none of them have won a Super Bowl, and I am wondering if it could be argued that any of them carried a weak team to a National title ?

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 315
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/13/2024 9:30:08 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 22942
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Gun to my head I think getting to 5 for JJM is the most prudent move.

What do you propose as the cost to trade up from 11 to 5? What if McCarthy is gone, but Maye is available?


Maybe next years #1 and a 3rd?

And yes to Maye.

I suppose that's possible if you're including this year's 11th overall pick. Probably take next year's #2 instead of 3. Very good chance 1 of Maye or McCarthy will be available at 11 if we don't move up.
Do you believe either or both of them will be Super Bowl quality QBs?

I'm an absolute no on McCarthy. The first quarter of the semifinal game was all I needed to see.

HOF then?

McCarthy had a sensational team around him. He doesn't strike me as a great NFL player.

Here is some of the other quarterbacks that won national titles over the past 20 years. It doesn't equate to greatness in the NFL:

Stetson Bennett
Mac Jones
Joe Burrow
Tua
Trevor Lawrence
Jalen Hurts
Deshaun Watson
Jake Coker
Cardale Jones
Jameis Winston
AJ McCarron
Cam Newton
Greg McElroy
Tim Tebow
Matt Flynn
Chris Leek
Vince Young
Matt Leinert
Matt Mauck
Craig Krenzel

7 of those have had a lot of success. Way better than average success rate for QB draft picks.

I count five or six. Burrow, Tua, Hurts, Cam. Lots of money spent on Watson for very little return (Flacco had the most success on that team in 2023). The jury is still (very much) out on Lawrence, IMO.

The bottom line is, winning in college does not equate to being a great NFL quarterback.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 3/13/2024 9:33:59 AM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 316
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/13/2024 9:53:35 AM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 39149
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

A lot of decent QBs who may have won a Super Bowl, IF they had a Dilfer-like Ravens supporting cast.

Interesting that none of them have won a Super Bowl, and I am wondering if it could be argued that any of them carried a weak team to a National title ?


In the 20 or so years referenced by Brad it should be noted that Superbowls were won by Brady (7), Eli Manning (2) over Brady, Peyton Manning (2), Drew Brees (against Peyton Manning), Nick Foles (over Brady). Rodgers over Roethlisberger, Roethlisberger over Warner, Warner Joe Flacco, Matt Stafford, Mahomes (3) And Stafford won over one of the guys on that list, Joe Burrow.

All but Foles and probably Falcco are HOFers.


So how many titles they won is hard to compare with that competition.

< Message edited by Trekgeekscott -- 3/13/2024 9:56:05 AM >

_____________________________

If a cow doesn't provide milk, is that a milk dud or and udder failure?
Post #: 317
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/13/2024 9:56:08 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 22942
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

A lot of decent QBs who may have won a Super Bowl, IF they had a Dilfer-like Ravens supporting cast.

Interesting that none of them have won a Super Bowl, and I am wondering if it could be argued that any of them carried a weak team to a National title ?


In the 20 years referenced by Brad it should be noted that Superbowls were won by Brady (7), Eli Manning (2) over Brady, Peyton Manning (2), Drew Brees, Nick Foles (over Brady). Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, Matt Stafford, Mahomes (3)

All but Foles and probably Falcco are HOFers.


So how many titles they won is hard to compare with that competition.

That's why they are winners, and the others I mentioned aren't. College titles do not equate to NFL titles. That was the point.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 318
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/13/2024 9:57:59 AM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 39149
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

A lot of decent QBs who may have won a Super Bowl, IF they had a Dilfer-like Ravens supporting cast.

Interesting that none of them have won a Super Bowl, and I am wondering if it could be argued that any of them carried a weak team to a National title ?


In the 20 years referenced by Brad it should be noted that Superbowls were won by Brady (7), Eli Manning (2) over Brady, Peyton Manning (2), Drew Brees, Nick Foles (over Brady). Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, Matt Stafford, Mahomes (3)

All but Foles and probably Falcco are HOFers.


So how many titles they won is hard to compare with that competition.

That's why they are winners, and the others aren't. College titles do not equate to NFL titles. That was the point.


True. They don't equate.

My point is that the Superbowl Quarterbacking has been a very small sample size compared to the number of QBs that have played in the league in the same timeframe. Monopolized by the Brady's Mannings, and other HOF worthy QBs of the era. I will bet every one of those Superbowl, winning or even losing QBs knew when to spike a football in a two minute drill....unlike a certain now former Viking QB.

_____________________________

If a cow doesn't provide milk, is that a milk dud or and udder failure?
Post #: 319
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/13/2024 9:59:42 AM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19351
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online 		I'm twisted on JJM. Was blah when I saw him and said he didn't impress me. I didn't watch him a ton but when I did he didn't look bad but didn't do anything that made you go "wow, ok".


I've since seen his highlights (which, of course, can be deceiving) and he is full of athleticism. The combine takeaway was that he has good leadership qualities and has elite arm velocity. He's also super young. In all, very intriguing prospect. Like almost all prospects though, if he goes to a lousy franchise he'll stink. If he goes to a good one he has a great chance.
Post #: 320
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/13/2024 10:00:05 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 22942
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

A lot of decent QBs who may have won a Super Bowl, IF they had a Dilfer-like Ravens supporting cast.

Interesting that none of them have won a Super Bowl, and I am wondering if it could be argued that any of them carried a weak team to a National title ?


In the 20 years referenced by Brad it should be noted that Superbowls were won by Brady (7), Eli Manning (2) over Brady, Peyton Manning (2), Drew Brees, Nick Foles (over Brady). Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, Matt Stafford, Mahomes (3)

All but Foles and probably Falcco are HOFers.


So how many titles they won is hard to compare with that competition.

That's why they are winners, and the others aren't. College titles do not equate to NFL titles. That was the point.


True. They don't equate.

My point is that the Superbowl Quarterbacking has been a very small sample size compared to the number of QBs that have played in the league in the same timeframe. Monopolized by the Brady's Mannings, and other HOF worthy QBs of the era. I will bet every one of those Superbowl, winning or even losing QBs knew when to spike a football in a two minute drill....unlike a certain now former Viking QB.

That's why they are Hall of Famers. They all won when it mattered and made a habit of it. Brady was an average quarterback in college (30 TD's, 17 INT's).

< Message edited by Brad H -- 3/13/2024 10:02:10 AM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 321
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/13/2024 10:04:48 AM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 39149
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

A lot of decent QBs who may have won a Super Bowl, IF they had a Dilfer-like Ravens supporting cast.

Interesting that none of them have won a Super Bowl, and I am wondering if it could be argued that any of them carried a weak team to a National title ?


In the 20 years referenced by Brad it should be noted that Superbowls were won by Brady (7), Eli Manning (2) over Brady, Peyton Manning (2), Drew Brees, Nick Foles (over Brady). Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, Matt Stafford, Mahomes (3)

All but Foles and probably Falcco are HOFers.


So how many titles they won is hard to compare with that competition.

That's why they are winners, and the others aren't. College titles do not equate to NFL titles. That was the point.


True. They don't equate.

My point is that the Superbowl Quarterbacking has been a very small sample size compared to the number of QBs that have played in the league in the same timeframe. Monopolized by the Brady's Mannings, and other HOF worthy QBs of the era. I will bet every one of those Superbowl, winning or even losing QBs knew when to spike a football in a two minute drill....unlike a certain now former Viking QB.

That's why they are Hall of Famers. They all won when it mattered and made a habit of it. Brady was an average quarterback in college (30 TD's, 17 INT's).



They all knew or at least learned how to win at the highest level. Cousins hasn't. He doesn't know to spike the ball after 12 years? He throws short of the sticks on 4th down play in the playoffs, you can't win big games if you are risk averse. When the HOFs games were on the line they got better, their game elevated. Cousins curled up in a shell. I am not sad he has departed.

_____________________________

If a cow doesn't provide milk, is that a milk dud or and udder failure?
Post #: 322
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/13/2024 10:24:30 AM  1 votes
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19351
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online 		Cousins is a business man that can throw a football really well. He was never a competitor. He proved that many times and we kept falling for it. He's Atlanta's problem now.
Post #: 323
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/13/2024 1:15:42 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77788
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online 		I'd take him.

Michael Penix Jr: SPECIAL Talent With Some Baggage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUN_4zochQY&ab_channel=TankSports
Post #: 324
RE: 2024 Draft - 3/13/2024 3:20:38 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19351
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I'd take him.

Michael Penix Jr: SPECIAL Talent With Some Baggage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUN_4zochQY&ab_channel=TankSports



At 11? His injury history scares the hell out of me but I love his talent.
Post #: 325
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