quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Somebody brought up an excellent point. I can’t remember who it was but they astutely noted that JJM has never attempted a pass in the NFL.

Kinda says it all.

Case closed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Let's just call a spade a spade.

Darnold choked
O'Connell choked

The defense kept us in the game for 2.5 qtrs but wore down. (AVG did choke dropping a pick 6)

We all have to just face the facts. This franchise has choked consistently throughout its existence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Let's just call a spade a spade.

Darnold choked
O'Connell choked

The defense kept us in the game for 2.5 qtrs but wore down. (AVG did choke dropping a pick 6)

We all have to just face the facts. This franchise has choked consistently throughout its existence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

LOL. Now, the right side of my brain wants to chime in.


IF... SD isn't so God awful in the first half, and we get a few TD's when we should have, that's a totally different game.

You guys make it sound like scoring a TD was an easy task. The fourth down pass missed to Jefferson in the corner of the end zone was a rushed throw because he had someone (safety, I think) bearing down on him. The one in the back of the end zone he had to throw against his body running left, with guys bearing down on him. Neither of those are easy throws.

The two bad throws were the two misses to Hockenson, one on third-and-18 and the other on an out pattern on third and long. Those two throws were chains movers and would have kept the Detroit defense on the field.

One thing Detroit did was take away running lanes for Darnold. He's been very good at escaping rushes and picking up first downs with his legs. Those lanes were not there on Sunday. They were disciplined and kept him contained, forcing our woeful offensive line to try and protect. Given our offensive coordinator never made any adjustments and continued to run 25-30-yard patterns, we had little success.

It was a terrible job from O'Connell. Darnold was not put in a position to succeed. The Vikings were gashing the Lions with the run. O'Connell would get across midfield and go away from it. Winning in the playoffs (or big games) has to be ugly at times. Not everything is a beauty contest.

I remember watching Belichick and the Patriots run the ball close to 15 straight times in one game because the defense wasn't stopping it. That was with Tom Brady and Randy Moss on the field. Sometimes you have to take what the defense gives you and be happy with it. You think the Chiefs were disappointed in winning with Isaiah Pacheco last season?

If your offensive line can't protect and you are averaging 4-5 yards-per-carry, why would you put your offense in a position to get your quarterback sacked and put yourself in third and long every possession? And then, even worse, continue to do it over and over with no recognition that it isn't working.

You’re such a Darnold apologist.

Everybody and their mother agrees KOC called a poor game and refused to adapt to the def scheme. We all agree SD had constant people in his face, many running free.

We should all agree that they left no room for Sam to to escape forward, which he’s good at when its there. However, his molasses spin move out the back window to evade rushers, turning his back and then running in a gigantic crop circle … those things are visible from outer space. After the third or fourth time, I would have had our OL trip him before he started, take the initial sack with minimal loss of yards and less embarrassment.

All that and more … but to deny he was completely flustered, was holding the ball too long / over-throwing and-or-had bad ball placement / was not using his underneath options … is just that, denial. No play, no matter how slow developing has everybody running a slow developing route. No pass play has only one or two options.

Apparently you missed the posts within hours after the game where I said he didn't play well.

And BTW, you aren't an apologist when you are saying the obvious.

Saying Sam didn't play well is like saying the Titanic sank. That's not really putting your opinion out there.

Putting most of the iceberg's blame on the dinner menu or the housekeeping service makes you an apologist.

Sam should be blamed for his part and KOC for his. Both deserve a lion's share of the blame. (and Det a ton of credit)

It's true, I don't read all your posts. But I have read several since the Lions game ... and over the course of the season.

What is obvious is that JJM has become your new pariah (replacing Cousins) ... and that you favor Darnold ... although IMO its not beneath you to simply use Sam as a stick to poke at the team and its fans over possible heir apparent JJM.

What's really obvious is that it doesn't matter either way.

I hope JJ McCarthy wins five Super Bowls. Irregardless, I'm not replacing a guy with 14 wins and the #6 passer rating in the league with a guy that has never completed a pass in the NFL if I don't have to. That would be GM malpractice. At the very least, you franchise tag Darnold and get something for your initial investment in a trade.

The bottom line is, it is in the best interest of the franchise to have Darnold under contract because he is a commodity. I don't see them signing him to a long-term deal, nor do I think they should. A franchise tag is the best of both worlds.

Do I like McCarthy? I thought it was a bad choice when they drafted him. The guy played in a running offense and rarely had to run a two-minute offense or played from behind. IMO, the last five minutes of halves is the most important part of any game.

Giving the keys of the Lamborghini to a kid that has never completed a pass would be stupid. Especially when the current guy just had the second most wins in franchise history.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Let's just call a spade a spade.

Darnold choked
O'Connell choked

The defense kept us in the game for 2.5 qtrs but wore down. (AVG did choke dropping a pick 6)

We all have to just face the facts. This franchise has choked consistently throughout its existence.

After 2009 positivity went out the window. I'm in prove it mode. I will be until they at least reach the super bowl.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Let's just call a spade a spade.

Darnold choked
O'Connell choked

The defense kept us in the game for 2.5 qtrs but wore down. (AVG did choke dropping a pick 6)

We all have to just face the facts. This franchise has choked consistently throughout its existence.

Not true. For example, the SB losses were not chokes. A case could be made that the Vikes did not take the Chiefs seriously and were upset. But prognosticators aside, history shows those Chiefs teams were stacked. Miami, Pitts, Oak were all powerhouses.

Losses in the playoffs since are a mixed bag. '98 was a choke I pin on Gary Andersen who had not missed a FG all year I think. If he made that chip shot FG, we would have been up two scores late. The Blair Walsh project was a choke. This year, Darnold launching space rockets was a pure choke.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Let's just call a spade a spade.

Darnold choked
O'Connell choked

The defense kept us in the game for 2.5 qtrs but wore down. (AVG did choke dropping a pick 6)

We all have to just face the facts. This franchise has choked consistently throughout its existence.

After 2009 positivity went out the window. I'm in prove it mode. I will be until they at least reach the super bowl.

Fair place to be.

For most of my fanhood, since 1994, I’ve over bought in. It’s not like we’ve had a lot of ruts to be fair so it’s not like I’m a blind Browns fan but I’ve done a lot of over romanticizing. This is the year…believe…blah blah blah. It’s all sapped from me now though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

And playoff losses like 2002 are considered chokes only if one believes the regular season games were legit. 13-4, really?

So there are losses and yes they could be considered chokes based on what happened. But IMO chokes are more about performances by individuals like Andersen, Walsh, and Darnold. Darren Nelson not catching a difficult pass while horizontal? Not a choke. Childress with 12 men on the field in NO on the last drive coming out of a timeout? Coaching choke.

Montana faced with going 96 yards in under two minutes or else losing the SB and saying hey isn't that John Candy in the stands? The ultimate IT. Darnold is more likely to vomit, like with rumors about McNabb doing so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Let's just call a spade a spade.

Darnold choked
O'Connell choked

The defense kept us in the game for 2.5 qtrs but wore down. (AVG did choke dropping a pick 6)

We all have to just face the facts. This franchise has choked consistently throughout its existence.

Not true. For example, the SB losses were not chokes. A case could be made that the Vikes did not take the Chiefs seriously and were upset. But prognosticators aside, history shows those Chiefs teams were stacked. Miami, Pitts, Oak were all powerhouses.

Losses in the playoffs since are a mixed bag. '98 was a choke I pin on Gary Andersen who had not missed a FG all year I think. If he made that chip shot FG, we would have been up two scores late. The Blair Walsh project was a choke. This year, Darnold launching space rockets was a pure choke.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Let's just call a spade a spade.

Darnold choked
O'Connell choked

The defense kept us in the game for 2.5 qtrs but wore down. (AVG did choke dropping a pick 6)

We all have to just face the facts. This franchise has choked consistently throughout its existence.

Not true. For example, the SB losses were not chokes. A case could be made that the Vikes did not take the Chiefs seriously and were upset. But prognosticators aside, history shows those Chiefs teams were stacked. Miami, Pitts, Oak were all powerhouses.

Losses in the playoffs since are a mixed bag. '98 was a choke I pin on Gary Andersen who had not missed a FG all year I think. If he made that chip shot FG, we would have been up two scores late. The Blair Walsh project was a choke. This year, Darnold launching space rockets was a pure choke.

Both Bills taking a hard line with the Darnold.

I'm giving Sam one more game to redeem himself and shake off his rabies eyes from the lions game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Let's just call a spade a spade.

Darnold choked
O'Connell choked

The defense kept us in the game for 2.5 qtrs but wore down. (AVG did choke dropping a pick 6)

We all have to just face the facts. This franchise has choked consistently throughout its existence.

Not true. For example, the SB losses were not chokes. A case could be made that the Vikes did not take the Chiefs seriously and were upset. But prognosticators aside, history shows those Chiefs teams were stacked. Miami, Pitts, Oak were all powerhouses.

Losses in the playoffs since are a mixed bag. '98 was a choke I pin on Gary Andersen who had not missed a FG all year I think. If he made that chip shot FG, we would have been up two scores late. The Blair Walsh project was a choke. This year, Darnold launching space rockets was a pure choke.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Let's just call a spade a spade.

Darnold choked
O'Connell choked

The defense kept us in the game for 2.5 qtrs but wore down. (AVG did choke dropping a pick 6)

We all have to just face the facts. This franchise has choked consistently throughout its existence.

Not true. For example, the SB losses were not chokes. A case could be made that the Vikes did not take the Chiefs seriously and were upset. But prognosticators aside, history shows those Chiefs teams were stacked. Miami, Pitts, Oak were all powerhouses.

Losses in the playoffs since are a mixed bag. '98 was a choke I pin on Gary Andersen who had not missed a FG all year I think. If he made that chip shot FG, we would have been up two scores late. The Blair Walsh project was a choke. This year, Darnold launching space rockets was a pure choke.

Gary Anderson’s kick was 37 yards in door AND he hadn’t missed all year.

It’s an all sport all time choke.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Let's just call a spade a spade.

Darnold choked
O'Connell choked

The defense kept us in the game for 2.5 qtrs but wore down. (AVG did choke dropping a pick 6)

We all have to just face the facts. This franchise has choked consistently throughout its existence.

Not true. For example, the SB losses were not chokes. A case could be made that the Vikes did not take the Chiefs seriously and were upset. But prognosticators aside, history shows those Chiefs teams were stacked. Miami, Pitts, Oak were all powerhouses.

Losses in the playoffs since are a mixed bag. '98 was a choke I pin on Gary Andersen who had not missed a FG all year I think. If he made that chip shot FG, we would have been up two scores late. The Blair Walsh project was a choke. This year, Darnold launching space rockets was a pure choke.

Both Bills taking a hard line with the Darnold.

I'm giving Sam one more game to redeem himself and shake off his rabies eyes from the lions game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I am continuously amazed at the amnesia in this forum. A year ago most people couldn't wait to get rid of Kirk Cousins. They called him check-down Charlie, a choker, a cancer, you name it.

The next season cranks up and Vegas predicts the Vikings will win 6.5 games. Minnesota heads into the season with Darnold as the QB and most in here were thinking nine wins would be a spectacular finish.

Darnold proceeds to go out and win 14 games with the #6 passer rating. He does it with absolute class. He presses the ball downfield. He does it while getting paid one of the lowest salaries in the league for a starter. Suddenly, he loses to the top seed in the NFC after an off night and he now has to go out and prove himself in order to be back next season? Somehow, 14 wins wasn't enough?

You people are freaking amazing!

I understand wanting to win. I understand the disappointment of a big loss. What I don't understand is your expectations.

Serious questions. How many games would we have won with JJ McCarthy as our quarterback this season? And what body of work does he have to substantiate your point?

Maybe I'm missing something. I'm all ears.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I am continuously amazed at the amnesia in this forum. A year ago most people couldn't wait to get rid of Kirk Cousins. They called him check-down Charlie, a choker, a cancer, you name it.

The next season cranks up and Vegas predicts the Vikings will win 6.5 games. Minnesota heads into the season with Darnold as the QB and most in here were thinking nine wins would be a spectacular finish.

Darnold proceeds to go out and win 14 games with the #6 passer rating. He does it with absolute class. He presses the ball downfield. He does it while getting paid one of the lowest salaries in the league for a starter. Suddenly, he loses to the top seed in the NFC after an off night and he now has to go out and prove himself in order to be back next season? Somehow, 14 wins wasn't enough?

You people are freaking amazing!

I understand wanting to win. I understand the disappointment of a big loss. What I don't understand is your expectations.

Serious questions. How many games would we have won with JJ McCarthy as our quarterback this season? And what body of work does he have to substantiate your point?

Maybe I'm missing something. I'm all ears.

Yes some will flip on Sam because you have JJM and Daniel Jones in the bullpen....who is to say Daniel Jones can't also be as good as Sam.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I am continuously amazed at the amnesia in this forum. A year ago most people couldn't wait to get rid of Kirk Cousins. They called him check-down Charlie, a choker, a cancer, you name it.

The next season cranks up and Vegas predicts the Vikings will win 6.5 games. Minnesota heads into the season with Darnold as the QB and most in here were thinking nine wins would be a spectacular finish.

Darnold proceeds to go out and win 14 games with the #6 passer rating. He does it with absolute class. He presses the ball downfield. He does it while getting paid one of the lowest salaries in the league for a starter. Suddenly he loses to the top seed in the NFC after an off night and people think he has to go out and prove himself in order to be back next season? Somehow, 14 wins wasn't enough?

You people are freaking amazing!

I understand wanting to win. I understand the disappointment of a big loss. What I don't understand is your expectations.

Serious questions. How many games would we have won with JJ McCarthy as our quarterback this season? And what body of work does he have to substantiate your point?

Maybe I'm missing something. I'm all ears.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I am continuously amazed at the amnesia in this forum. A year ago most people couldn't wait to get rid of Kirk Cousins. They called him check-down Charlie, a choker, a cancer, you name it.

The next season cranks up and Vegas predicts the Vikings will win 6.5 games. Minnesota heads into the season with Darnold as the QB and most in here were thinking nine wins would be a spectacular finish.

Darnold proceeds to go out and win 14 games with the #6 passer rating. He does it with absolute class. He presses the ball downfield. He does it while getting paid one of the lowest salaries in the league for a starter. Suddenly, he loses to the top seed in the NFC after an off night and he now has to go out and prove himself in order to be back next season? Somehow, 14 wins wasn't enough?

You people are freaking amazing!

I understand wanting to win. I understand the disappointment of a big loss. What I don't understand is your expectations.

Serious questions. How many games would we have won with JJ McCarthy as our quarterback this season? And what body of work does he have to substantiate your point?

Maybe I'm missing something. I'm all ears.

Yes some will flip on Sam because you have JJM and Daniel Jones in the bullpen....who is to say Daniel Jones can't also be as good as Sam.

One has proven it by winning 14 games with this team. The other two have combined for 0.

Like I have said, it's crazy talk. Winning isn't easy in the NFL. What is the expectation? Most in here said 8-9 wins at the beginning of the season. ZERO people said 14, guaranteed.

What more could they possibly want, and why should I believe one of the other two guys can get it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I am continuously amazed at the amnesia in this forum. A year ago most people couldn't wait to get rid of Kirk Cousins. They called him check-down Charlie, a choker, a cancer, you name it.

The next season cranks up and Vegas predicts the Vikings will win 6.5 games. Minnesota heads into the season with Darnold as the QB and most in here were thinking nine wins would be a spectacular finish.

Darnold proceeds to go out and win 14 games with the #6 passer rating. He does it with absolute class. He presses the ball downfield. He does it while getting paid one of the lowest salaries in the league for a starter. Suddenly, he loses to the top seed in the NFC after an off night and he now has to go out and prove himself in order to be back next season? Somehow, 14 wins wasn't enough?

You people are freaking amazing!

I understand wanting to win. I understand the disappointment of a big loss. What I don't understand is your expectations.

Serious questions. How many games would we have won with JJ McCarthy as our quarterback this season? And what body of work does he have to substantiate your point?

Maybe I'm missing something. I'm all ears.

Yes some will flip on Sam because you have JJM and Daniel Jones in the bullpen....who is to say Daniel Jones can't also be as good as Sam.

One has proven it by winning 14 games with this team. The other two have combined for 0.

Like I have said, it's crazy talk. Winning isn't easy in the NFL. What is the expectation? Most in here said 8-9 wins at the beginning of the season. ZERO people said 14, guaranteed.

What more could they possibly want, and why should I believe one of the other two guys can get it?

It isn't crazy talk....it was a 3rd or 4th place schedule and if you are worried about regular season wins why not stay with Kirk at that 40-50 million?

They have 2 possible QBs and many positions to fill next year.........JJM and Jones in the bullpen make this possible. They goal is to win it all and if Sam isn't that guy.....it is a stones measure this Monday.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I am continuously amazed at the amnesia in this forum. A year ago most people couldn't wait to get rid of Kirk Cousins. They called him check-down Charlie, a choker, a cancer, you name it.

The next season cranks up and Vegas predicts the Vikings will win 6.5 games. Minnesota heads into the season with Darnold as the QB and most in here were thinking nine wins would be a spectacular finish.

Darnold proceeds to go out and win 14 games with the #6 passer rating. He does it with absolute class. He presses the ball downfield. He does it while getting paid one of the lowest salaries in the league for a starter. Suddenly, he loses to the top seed in the NFC after an off night and he now has to go out and prove himself in order to be back next season? Somehow, 14 wins wasn't enough?

You people are freaking amazing!

I understand wanting to win. I understand the disappointment of a big loss. What I don't understand is your expectations.

Serious questions. How many games would we have won with JJ McCarthy as our quarterback this season? And what body of work does he have to substantiate your point?

Maybe I'm missing something. I'm all ears.

Yes some will flip on Sam because you have JJM and Daniel Jones in the bullpen....who is to say Daniel Jones can't also be as good as Sam.

One has proven it by winning 14 games with this team. The other two have combined for 0.

Like I have said, it's crazy talk. Winning isn't easy in the NFL. What is the expectation? Most in here said 8-9 wins at the beginning of the season. ZERO people said 14, guaranteed.

What more could they possibly want, and why should I believe one of the other two guys can get it?

It isn't crazy talk....it was a 3rd or 4th place schedule and if you are worried about regular season wins why not stay with Kirk at that 40-50 million?

They have 2 possible QBs and many positions to fill next year.........JJM and Jones in the bullpen make this possible. They goal is to win it all and if Sam isn't that guy.....it is a stones measure this Monday.

Again, why does anyone think McCarthy or Jones can get it done? At the end of the day, it is a results driven league. They have no results.

The franchise tag is a perfect bridge to whomever is the future quarterback. Sam Darnold has to prove nothing. He's won 14 games with this team.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I am continuously amazed at the amnesia in this forum. A year ago most people couldn't wait to get rid of Kirk Cousins. They called him check-down Charlie, a choker, a cancer, you name it.

The next season cranks up and Vegas predicts the Vikings will win 6.5 games. Minnesota heads into the season with Darnold as the QB and most in here were thinking nine wins would be a spectacular finish.

Darnold proceeds to go out and win 14 games with the #6 passer rating. He does it with absolute class. He presses the ball downfield. He does it while getting paid one of the lowest salaries in the league for a starter. Suddenly he loses to the top seed in the NFC after an off night and people think he has to go out and prove himself in order to be back next season? Somehow, 14 wins wasn't enough?

You people are freaking amazing!

I understand wanting to win. I understand the disappointment of a big loss. What I don't understand is your expectations.

Serious questions. How many games would we have won with JJ McCarthy as our quarterback this season? And what body of work does he have to substantiate your point?

Maybe I'm missing something. I'm all ears.

The NFL is a business. If this were baseball, we could have Darnold, Jones and JJ all next year, duking it out.

The NFL has a salary cap, and it's not about what you've done, but what you will do in the future. Sam silenced a lot of doubters with his regular season play. He showed he has the physical ability.

Playoffs and must win games are a whole nother story, if you show you are a choke in these games, you greatly diminish future expectations and your worth to a team.

The great thing, he has a chance to turn around one the worst passing performance I've ever witnessed at the professional level last Sunday night, next Monday.

The team has Blackmon coming back at CB next year, but nothing else really, the D line is mostly NFL 1st round busts and college FAs, the IOL has been bad to mediocre for a while. We have viable optoins at QB next year. We do not in those areas.
We also have very few draft picks in 2025. Need money for FAs.