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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 7:14:16 AM

Trekgeekscott

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

I suppose one way to look at it is ...

Yes Kwesi had an abysmal draft in 2022 but he has already moved on from picks one and two.

Before the start of his third season.

Ingram, Asamoah and Evans are all problematic but really, its the lingering first rd picks that do the most damage.

And we moved on rather quickly. Which I think beats making the horrible pick to begin with. Certainly a course correction we saw little of with Spielman.

Also, the one year contract in year two and the non-competitive offer this year for Cousins (not that we had the resources to make a competitive offer or we might have) ... even so, it felt like we were trying to trying to turn the table on Kirk and squeeze him into our team's financial structure and personnel plans. As much as Kevin opined for the dude, we pushed ourselves away from the table based on KC's age and guaranteed money demands. Certainly better than Spielman ever did.

In year three, we also swooped in on McCarthy, Turner, resigning Darrisaw ... which gives us three of the four competitive cornerstones (CB being the missing one) that we need to be truly competitive. That all remains to be seen.

So I will give Kwesi some solid credit for learning some things on the job.

Still a long long way to go. I still feel like we are a 5-7 win team.

But it feels like we are stuffing the piñata for a solid whack in 2025.

Kwesi isn't letting his ego run the team. Otherwise he'd have kept Booth and Cine. It means he's ok with admitting a mistake and moving on from it.

I think that is HUGE.

Plus he's been a genius at identifying and nabbing up really good undrafted guys.

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Post #: 1751

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 8:32:46 AM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 39181
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From: United Federation of Planets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
i have more faith than most in this season...I think we've got the players on offense to score a lot of points - stating the obvious, it's up to Darnold and O'Connell...get Darnold in a rhythm early - stay away from long-developing plays until it's set up properly....

I’m with you. I think the talk that KOC is going to have to be COY to see us half competitive is way out there. I’m not declaring us to be the top team in the NFC but we’re going to be good.

I believe!!!

I am convinced Sam Darnold is going to have the best season of his career. He's finally got someone to throw to. He's got enough talent.

There are some big IFs here. If Darnold is the Darnold we've seen in previous stops, We're ****ed. If Darnold is what we think he will be but gets hurt, we're ****ed. If Aaron Jones goes down, we're probably ****ed. If JJ misses time. ****ed. But there is a ton of potential on this team, both offense and defense. Sure we lost Danielle Hunter, but we replaced him very well with Greenard, Van Ginkel and Turner. I think Flores is going to coach himself into another HC job this season. and Darnold and Co will do just enough to make us good.

Now excuse my whilst I remove my purple colored shades and try to avoid reality. crossing my fingers. we are going to surprise a lot of folks this year imho.

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Post #: 1752

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 8:38:22 AM

TJSweens

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I also expect Darnold to have his best season, but that is an incredibly low bar.

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Post #: 1753

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 9:24:34 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5870
Joined: 7/27/2007
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Concrete concerns

My blind spots are Darnold/Mullen/Hall, the IOL, the DL, the TE group without Hock, however long that lasts, and the slew of new starters - how long before they settle in?

I am not able to see beyond those possible weakness.

Lesser concerns (or what I would call fear-based concerns. Because there will always be fear of injury, sub-par performance, etc)

The CB situation is a mystery to me. I have to see Gilmore play beyond his age and up near his repuation on our defense to believe; will Murphy play better inside with more experience outside? Hopefully, because at best he’s been barely ok. Griffin has a reputation as a physical CB but again, I have to see how he fits here and holds up in coverage. On paper I think we are much better than last year but I don’t see anybody shutting down top WRs.

I am ok with Addison’s possible suspension … I think JJ Nailor Powell can hold up for a 2-3 games but that is not the same as JJ, Addy, Nails). As I’ve said, especially with Hock out.

Is Hock’s rehab still on schedule? I will look into this but we’ve had some bad experiences with lingering injuries becoming indefinite then chronic problems.

Jones is an absolute upgrade over Mattison Chandler. If he gets dinged, we cant cover that right now. Gaskin or McBride on the ps ain’t it.

Post #: 1754

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 9:43:42 AM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I also expect Darnold to have his best season, but that is an incredibly low bar.

Well Cousins came in with a gaudy turnover statline and he turned that around so maybe Darnold will fix his problems.

I have to see it though. Even during the succesfull part of his career at USC, he put the ball on the ground a lot and averaged one interception per game.

He has a lot to prove.

For me, the mantra I hear about Darnold having the best skill group he’s played with, may or may not offset his over-aggressive tendencies. Pressure up the middle feeds into that.

I expect a lot of big throws. For sure. How successful he’ll be will also depend on how much he steps on his own toes.

I also want to see how he performs in critical situations, 3rd downs, 2 min drills etc … before I assume he’s going to be a new and improved QB.

Post #: 1755

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 10:02:57 AM 1 votes

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I also expect Darnold to have his best season, but that is an incredibly low bar.

Well Cousins came in with a gaudy turnover statline and he turned that around so maybe Darnold will fix his problems.

I have to see it though. Even during the succesfull part of his career at USC, he put the ball on the ground a lot and averaged one interception per game.

He has a lot to prove.

For me, the mantra I hear about Darnold having the best skill group he’s played with, may or may not offset his over-aggressive tendencies. Pressure up the middle feeds into that.

I expect a lot of big throws. For sure. How successful he’ll be will also depend on how much he steps on his own toes.

I also want to see how he performs in critical situations, 3rd downs, 2 min drills etc … before I assume he’s going to be a new and improved QB.

Despite my snark, I'm actually fairly optimistic about Darnold this year. He came out of college as a higher rated passer than McCarthy. Like a lot of top QB prospects, I think Darnold was set up to fail. He got thrown into the fire at 21 with the Jets with zero talent around him. His situation didn't improve when he got traded.

Now he has had a year in a good system with good teammates. Granted, he only played in the last game with second stringers. He also got a chance to reboot and learn. Now he moves to a similar system out of the same coaching tree. He also is surrounded by a talented group. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see big numbers.

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Post #: 1756

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 10:21:08 AM

Mark C. Johnson

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Joined: 8/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
i have more faith than most in this season...I think we've got the players on offense to score a lot of points - stating the obvious, it's up to Darnold and O'Connell...get Darnold in a rhythm early - stay away from long-developing plays until it's set up properly....

I’m with you. I think the talk that KOC is going to have to be COY to see us half competitive is way out there. I’m not declaring us to be the top team in the NFC but we’re going to be good.

I believe!!!

I am convinced Sam Darnold is going to have the best season of his career. He's finally got someone to throw to. He's got enough talent.

There are some big IFs here. If Darnold is the Darnold we've seen in previous stops, We're ****ed. If Darnold is what we think he will be but gets hurt, we're ****ed. If Aaron Jones goes down, we're probably ****ed. If JJ misses time. ****ed. But there is a ton of potential on this team, both offense and defense. Sure we lost Danielle Hunter, but we replaced him very well with Greenard, Van Ginkel and Turner. I think Flores is going to coach himself into another HC job this season. and Darnold and Co will do just enough to make us good.

Now excuse my whilst I remove my purple colored shades and try to avoid reality. crossing my fingers. we are going to surprise a lot of folks this year imho.

Since Darnold has been bad so far in his career, I'm squarely in the prove-it camp. I understand that he has better weapons and an offensive minded coach now, but history is history until he changes the script. I'm HOPING he does so...but, it's just hope at the moment. I like Aaron Jones, but you're right he has an injury history and I suspect he'll miss games this year. I'm certain that they will bring in another RB, so we'll have to wait and see who that is.

The defense to me is a great unknown at the moment. Second year in Flores system so we'll see if they can take another step forward...it's critical I think to any success that they hope to have this year.

Post #: 1757

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 10:31:17 AM

Todd M

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Just want a strong start. To not look like we need a game or 2 to knock the rust off.

Post #: 1758

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 10:40:56 AM

Phil Riewer

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Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I also expect Darnold to have his best season, but that is an incredibly low bar.

Well Cousins came in with a gaudy turnover statline and he turned that around so maybe Darnold will fix his problems.

I have to see it though. Even during the succesfull part of his career at USC, he put the ball on the ground a lot and averaged one interception per game.

He has a lot to prove.

For me, the mantra I hear about Darnold having the best skill group he’s played with, may or may not offset his over-aggressive tendencies. Pressure up the middle feeds into that.

I expect a lot of big throws. For sure. How successful he’ll be will also depend on how much he steps on his own toes.

I also want to see how he performs in critical situations, 3rd downs, 2 min drills etc … before I assume he’s going to be a new and improved QB.

Despite my snark, I'm actually fairly optimistic about Darnold this year. He came out of college as a higher rated passer than McCarthy. Like a lot of top QB prospects, I think Darnold was set up to fail. He got thrown into the fire at 21 with the Jets with zero talent around him. His situation didn't improve when he got traded.

Now he has had a year in a good system with good teammates. Granted, he only played in the last game with second stringers. He also got a chance to reboot and learn. Now he moves to a similar system out of the same coaching tree. He also is surrounded by a talented group. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see big numbers.

The biggest problem with Darnold is the medium passing game. I think his deep and short passing will be fine. A healthy A Jones will help this as well as KOC Oliver/Mudt dumpoff favorites.

Also the running game can't be any worse then it was last year around the goal line.

Defense---I have a lot of faith in Flores and he has more talent to work with at DL, LB, and CB compared to last year.

Kirk hated these easy gainers.

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Post #: 1759

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 10:45:49 AM

Todd M

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Jones has his eyes on being the best RB in the league…

Top 5 and we’re going to roll.

Post #: 1760

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 10:56:24 AM

Tom Sykes

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Another part of the Darnold equation is …

there’s a different mindset playing as a shot-term bandaid, bridge QB on a tight leash than someone being groomed as the long-term answer. I mean, I’m sure Darnold will give his all … but the terms / investment are different. Might be different.

A mindset informed by a one year contract and KOC announcing McCarthy as our franchise QB in the same breath with, ‘his rookie season is over’ … you don’t think a short-timer label over ‘this is our guy’ has an influence on performance?

I don’t know. Maybe I’m just making shit up.

Maybe Darnold is Mayfield 2 and he greatly turns it around in one season starting with game one. We saw that first hand last year.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 8/28/2024 10:57:42 AM >

Post #: 1761

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 11:02:42 AM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Just want a strong start. To not look like we need a game or 2 to knock the rust off.

The Giants are tailor-made for that.

The 49ers, Texans, Packers after that, not so much.

Post #: 1762

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 11:19:07 AM

marty

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The Giants might be tailored made to upset the Vikings in game 1, should the Giants get ahead early, they will bring lots of heat.

Daboll out coached KOC in the playoff game, it could happen again.

This time, instead of Kirk Cousins bringing the Vikings back, it will be the Jittery Sam Darnold, in his first Vikings game, with no chemistry with the WRs, missing Hock, and this time the game is in NY.

The only positive difference is Flores, though his unit will have a lot of inexperience, his defense isn't like the horrible sieve that was Donatell.

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Post #: 1763

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 11:43:37 AM

Ricky J

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Daboll out coached KOC in the playoff game, it could happen again.

Really? I thought that was Kirk's fault.

Maybe you're right - my memory is getting worse, especially re losses.

I do recall the defense being a little over matched, though, but I believe that was ruled out as a valid excuse

Post #: 1764

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 11:44:05 AM

Trekgeekscott

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

The Giants might be tailored made to upset the Vikings in game 1, should the Giants get ahead early, they will bring lots of heat.

Daboll out coached KOC in the playoff game, it could happen again.

This time, instead of Kirk Cousins bringing the Vikings back, it will be the Jittery Sam Darnold, in his first Vikings game, with no chemistry with the WRs, missing Hock, and this time the game is in NY.

The only positive difference is Flores, though his unit will have a lot of inexperience, his defense isn't like the horrible sieve that was Donatell.

I'm glad you recognized the real problem in that game.

Donatell had a defense that left the entire middle of the field open all day long. Flores wont do that and Daniel Jones will be rusty to say the least. the Pressure Flores dials up is going to fluster Jones all day long. There won't be big open spaces in the middle of the field and there wont be time to find them if their were.

And Cousins pulled a Cousins in that game and wilted at the wrong time. On a need to get 4th down play that determines the game he threw the safe pass short of the sticks which was predictably stopped. Cousins pulled a Cousins in crunch time.

Really, it's kind of silly at best to compare this game to a playoff game from nearly two years ago. Each team is markedly different in players, and coaching staffs. Plus the Giants were awful last year. and their BEST offensive player from the past few years, Saquon Barkley, is now an Eagle.

Giants only pose a real threat if we underestimate them.

< Message edited by Trekgeekscott -- 8/28/2024 11:50:50 AM >

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Post #: 1765

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 11:44:48 AM

Todd M

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Marty you start every year the same way. Not as a hater but pesky pessimist

Post #: 1766

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 12:15:04 PM

Tom Sykes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Daboll out coached KOC in the playoff game, it could happen again.

Really? I thought that was Kirk's fault.

Maybe you're right - my memory is getting worse, especially re losses.

I do recall the defense being a little over matched, though, but I believe that was ruled out as a valid excuse

Marty speaks for the board. Whatever he says.

Post #: 1767

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 12:26:01 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28459
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
i have more faith than most in this season...I think we've got the players on offense to score a lot of points - stating the obvious, it's up to Darnold and O'Connell...get Darnold in a rhythm early - stay away from long-developing plays until it's set up properly....

I’m with you. I think the talk that KOC is going to have to be COY to see us half competitive is way out there. I’m not declaring us to be the top team in the NFC but we’re going to be good.

I believe!!!

I am convinced Sam Darnold is going to have the best season of his career. He's finally got someone to throw to. He's got enough talent.

There are some big IFs here. If Darnold is the Darnold we've seen in previous stops, We're ****ed. If Darnold is what we think he will be but gets hurt, we're ****ed. If Aaron Jones goes down, we're probably ****ed. If JJ misses time. ****ed. But there is a ton of potential on this team, both offense and defense. Sure we lost Danielle Hunter, but we replaced him very well with Greenard, Van Ginkel and Turner. I think Flores is going to coach himself into another HC job this season. and Darnold and Co will do just enough to make us good.

Now excuse my whilst I remove my purple colored shades and try to avoid reality. crossing my fingers. we are going to surprise a lot of folks this year imho.

Since Darnold has been bad so far in his career, I'm squarely in the prove-it camp. I understand that he has better weapons and an offensive minded coach now, but history is history until he changes the script. I'm HOPING he does so...but, it's just hope at the moment. I like Aaron Jones, but you're right he has an injury history and I suspect he'll miss games this year. I'm certain that they will bring in another RB, so we'll have to wait and see who that is.

The defense to me is a great unknown at the moment. Second year in Flores system so we'll see if they can take another step forward...it's critical I think to any success that they hope to have this year.

This is at least the third year in a row where is defense is a great unknown. They need a core group of top defenders that grow together with a sprinkling of one-year rentals. It has been, and is, the opposite for a long time. The cap and rebuild situation was the reason, and now it's time to move forward.

Post #: 1768

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 12:51:18 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9498
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
The current practice squad for the Vikings is as follows:

Edge Andre Carter II
RB Myles Gaskin
WR Lucky Jackson
WR Jeshaun Jones
DB Bobby McCain
Edge Bo Richter
OL Tyrese Robinson
WR Thayer Thomas
TE Robert Tonyan
CB Jaylin Williams
DL Jonah Williams
CB Nahshon Wright

gone to the big apple...'if I could make it there, I'll make it anywhere....'

Jeremy Fowler@JFowlerESPN
Source: Lewis Cine is signing with the #Jets.

.

< Message edited by ratoppenheimer -- 8/28/2024 12:54:59 PM >

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Post #: 1769

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 12:52:22 PM

Bill Johanesen

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Status: offline

The 2017-era defense was nice.

Griffen, Hunter
Barr, Kendricks
Rhodes
Smith

Then to that add Robison, Linval Joseph, Greenway, Newman. Too bad first rounders Trae Waynes (2015) and Mike Hughes (2018) didn't pan out.

We need that core. Start with Dallas Turner.

Post #: 1770

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 1:19:39 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77821
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

Per Tom Pelissero of the NFL Network, the Vikings did not claim anyone on waivers. The only player that the Vikings waived who was claimed by another team was RB/KR Kene Nwangwu, who is now a member of the New Orleans Saints.

We managed to keep most of the guys I was hoping for.

Post #: 1771

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 1:54:06 PM 4 votes

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9498
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
isn't it interesting that eric kendricks, who made the 'culture of fear' comment about mike zimmer and the 2021 vikings, is now playing for that same man of which he spoke....

dalvin cook is also now a Dallas cowboy....

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Post #: 1772

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 1:57:53 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77821
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
isn't it interesting that eric kendricks, who made the 'culture of fear' comment about mike zimmer and the 2021 vikings, is now playing for that same man of which he spoke....

dalvin cook is also now a Dallas cowboy....

Probably makes a big difference when it isn't Zim's locker room.

Post #: 1773

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 2:00:16 PM

Ricky J

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Good point, but either way, it seems weird theyre both still playing let alone in D with Zim.
Good stuff

Post #: 1774

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2024 2:39:15 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28459
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
isn't it interesting that eric kendricks, who made the 'culture of fear' comment about mike zimmer and the 2021 vikings, is now playing for that same man of which he spoke....

dalvin cook is also now a Dallas cowboy....

You're pretty good with those 'fear' comments!

Post #: 1775