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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/19/2024 1:00:28 PM

marty

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Let's not forget, this team has not lost a game since McCarthy became a Viking (5-0, including pre-season games).

McCarthy is a winner.

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Post #: 2126

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/19/2024 1:05:56 PM

marty

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While I agree with several of the points you were making Dave, defenses need to respect your going deep, or it gets easier to defend you.

But I also think most deep passes are completed early in seasons, and it gets harder to complete deep passes later in the season, when defenses are gelling, and they have more film on you.

Even a team like the Rams when they had all their deep threats, didn't get a lot of deep passes late in their season. In fact, they didn't complete ANY deep passes against the Titans in the Super Bowl, and the only somewhat deep pass completed, was an underthrow where the wide receiver had to come back for it.

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Post #: 2127

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/19/2024 1:09:41 PM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

We also need to see if we can maintain this level of defense through a whole year.

We had this exact same conversation well into last year, and then we got a bit exposed and finished the year 13th in Points and 16th in Yards - and Flores was a total non-factor in HC searches.

Same conversation but less talent....to end up 13th last year was a miracle with Flores smoke and mirrors.

To be determined.

Absolutely.

Flores did wonders last year relative to the year before. However, if you break it down farther, he did much better early than late. Which is the opposite of what you want.

This year we actually have something fair to compare this defense to ... last year.

Its just two weeks in. No need to anoint people with blessed oils and the waving of incense.

No need to fire O'Connell right this very moment out of fear that Flores will move on after the season.

Or jump on extending Darnold for starter money. We just broke free from those starter money shackles. We just wriggled through that barbed wire penitentiary fence ... for some free air.

So far so good. One step at a time.

Post #: 2128

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/19/2024 1:12:45 PM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Umm why? 2-0 and now you want a different HC? KOC does not equal Chilly.

No, I want to keep what is the main ingredient as to why we are 2-0, and that's Brian Flores.

It's not like the Vikings are scoring 30 or 40 points a game, and 7 of the points in the 1st game was a defensive score, and they almost had a score of an INT in the 2nd game.

While I have liked what I have seen in KOC's play calling so far, there were some concerns in the past, I am just happy we have Flores for another season, this season.

Super Bowl winning head coaches: Dungy, Billick, Tomlin, BFlo ?

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Post #: 2129

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/19/2024 1:14:19 PM 1 votes

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
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Umm why? 2-0 and now you want a different HC? KOC does not equal Chilly.

No, I want to keep what is the main ingredient as to why we are 2-0, and that's Brian Flores.

It's not like the Vikings are scoring 30 or 40 points a game, and 7 of the points in the 1st game was a defensive score, and they almost had a score off an INT in the 2nd game.

While I have liked what I have seen in KOC's play calling so far, there were some concerns in the past, I am just happy we have Flores for another season, this season.

Super Bowl winning head coaches: Dungy, Billick, Tomlin, BFlo ?

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Post #: 2130

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/19/2024 1:33:20 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 44840
Joined: 7/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

We also need to see if we can maintain this level of defense through a whole year.

We had this exact same conversation well into last year, and then we got a bit exposed and finished the year 13th in Points and 16th in Yards - and Flores was a total non-factor in HC searches.

Not to mention Tua Tagovailoa had some pretty sharp criticism of the way Flores treated players as a head coach. Short of an elite defensive season and a playoff run, I think losing Flores to a head coaching job is less inevitable than some might think.

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Post #: 2131

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/19/2024 1:36:03 PM 1 votes

beo

Posts: 2286
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Umm why? 2-0 and now you want a different HC? KOC does not equal Chilly.

No, I want to keep what is the main ingredient as to why we are 2-0, and that's Brian Flores.

It's not like the Vikings are scoring 30 or 40 points a game, and 7 of the points in the 1st game was a defensive score, and they almost had a score off an INT in the 2nd game.

While I have liked what I have seen in KOC's play calling so far, there were some concerns in the past, I am just happy we have Flores for another season, this season.

Super Bowl winning head coaches: Dungy, Billick, Tomlin, BFlo ?

"Dungy, Billick, Tomlin"
Those guys were all previously failed head coaches right?
Ones that had former players blasting them?

We have a great team culture at the moment... winning... and you want to blow it up to go back to the Zimmer days.

You think Flores wants to have owners that are willing to throw out coaches during a winning year... that after his experience in Miami he wants owners that are that fickle...

Flores is a great DC, imo.
There is no evidence he is a great HC.

Maybe focus on keeping the train rolling... become the new Dungy/Kiffin or Cowher/LeBeau combo and win some superbowls.

Post #: 2132

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/19/2024 1:49:21 PM 1 votes

David Levine

Posts: 77423
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Umm why? 2-0 and now you want a different HC? KOC does not equal Chilly.

No, I want to keep what is the main ingredient as to why we are 2-0, and that's Brian Flores.

It's not like the Vikings are scoring 30 or 40 points a game, and 7 of the points in the 1st game was a defensive score, and they almost had a score off an INT in the 2nd game.

While I have liked what I have seen in KOC's play calling so far, there were some concerns in the past, I am just happy we have Flores for another season, this season.

Super Bowl winning head coaches: Dungy, Billick, Tomlin, BFlo ?

"Dungy, Billick, Tomlin"
Those guys were all previously failed head coaches right?
Ones that had former players blasting them?

We have a great team culture at the moment... winning... and you want to blow it up to go back to the Zimmer days.

You think Flores wants to have owners that are willing to throw out coaches during a winning year... that after his experience in Miami he wants owners that are that fickle...

Flores is a great DC, imo.
There is no evidence he is a great HC.

Maybe focus on keeping the train rolling... become the new Dungy/Kiffin or Cowher/LeBeau combo and win some superbowls.

Zero evidence.

3 years as a HC, 24-25 Overall:

2019: 5-11, Missed Playoffs. Offense: 27th in Yards, 25th in Points. Defense: 30th in Yards, 32nd in Points.
2020: 10-6, Missed Playoffs. Offense: 22nd in Yards, 15th in Points. Defense: 20th in Yards, 6th in Points.
2021: 9-8, Missed Playoffs. Offense: 25th in Yards, 22nd in Points. Defense: 15th in Yards, 16th in Points.

That's not to say he won't do better if given another chance, but its not some kind of given. And definitely not basing a decision on Vikings history from decades ago.

Post #: 2133

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/19/2024 3:07:10 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 26953
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Umm why? 2-0 and now you want a different HC? KOC does not equal Chilly.

No, I want to keep what is the main ingredient as to why we are 2-0, and that's Brian Flores.

It's not like the Vikings are scoring 30 or 40 points a game, and 7 of the points in the 1st game was a defensive score, and they almost had a score of an INT in the 2nd game.

While I have liked what I have seen in KOC's play calling so far, there were some concerns in the past, I am just happy we have Flores for another season, this season.

Super Bowl winning head coaches: Dungy, Billick, Tomlin, BFlo ?

Way too much credit to the DC and not enough to the other 2 that brought in the talent. Simple example/exhibit 1: KOC mentioned Van Ginkel first to Flores. Talent and depth is needed to win in the league.

Would you rather have Mullens or Darnold. Would you rather have Hicks or Cashmen.....DJ Wonnum or Van Ginkel.....Mattison or Jones . None of those four examples were decided by Flores but upgraded your team.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 9/19/2024 3:09:46 PM >

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Post #: 2134

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/19/2024 4:21:26 PM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
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"Dungy, Billick, Tomlin"
Those guys were all previously failed head coaches right?
....

They are three former Vikings' coordinators that went on to win a Super Bowl as a head coach, BFlo could be next.

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Post #: 2135

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/19/2024 4:24:24 PM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
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Also, there was zero evidence that Dungy, Billick and Tomlin would become great head coaches, head coaches that would win Super Bowls. BFlo at least has the Dolphins winning games at the end of the season where he was a head coach.

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Post #: 2136

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/19/2024 4:26:01 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77423
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

"Dungy, Billick, Tomlin"
Those guys were all previously failed head coaches right?
....

They are three former Vikings' coordinators that went on to win a Super Bowl as a head coach, BFlo could be next.

Now do the list of former Vikings' coordinators to not win Super Bowls.

Post #: 2137

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/19/2024 4:30:24 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77423
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Also, there was zero evidence that Dungy, Billick and Tomlin would become great head coaches, head coaches that would win Super Bowls. BFlo at least has the Dolphins winning games at the end of the season where he was a head coach.

Was Billick a "great head coach"?

He was an offensive coach that inherited a great defense and special teams. He had the 15th ranked offense the year they won the SB.

He had 8 Playoff games in 9 years. 4 of them in a single season.

Post #: 2138