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RE: General Vikes Talkk

 
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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 2/16/2026 10:19:09 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 32797
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If one subscribes to the theory that there is a three year lag before a team feels the effect of its draft results, early returns suggest the effect is somewhere between lots of hope to we're screwed

2023 - Addison, Blackmon, Ward, Roy, Hall, McBride
2024 - JJM, Turner, Rouse, Reichard, Jurgens, LDR
2025 - Jackson, Felton, Ingram-Dawkins, King, Bartholomew

UDFA (the stock in cupboard doesn't match the hoopla)
2023 - Pace, N. Thompson
2024 - Murphy, McGlothern, Taimani
2025 - Brosmer, Huber, Price, E. Williams
Post #: 2626
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 2/16/2026 10:29:18 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 6177
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

The Vikings can just convert the salaries of JJ, Darrisaw, O'Neil, Hockenson and Greenard to signing bonuses and save up to $65M in cap space. Hargrave will likely be cut to save another $10.45M.

Yep. The doomsdayers will be out in force with "Cap Hell, time to tank, etc... It's been a broken record the last couple years.

But, we find a way and still are big spenders in FA. It worked well in 2024. Not so much in 2025.

With KAM gone, could this be the year we do well in both FA and Draft?

Worked well? Right … because we’ve gotten such great results and put ourselves in such a great place moving forward!

Just keep it rolling. Why change strategies when you can field the worst team in the playoffs every other year!

Woohoo!

I don’t know about tanking … my thing is about picking and choosing better how you spend and structure contracts … and where. Please invest your money on a roughly priority- based system, at qb, in the dl, ol, at cb, etc. Stop making TEs, FBs, RTs the near-highest-paid at their positions.

Not spraying it around every offseason without regard for the following two or three years. And stop structuring the bajeezus out of contracts so it feels like we have to rob ambulances for talent every year.

We are running in a mud to build the 2026 roster that we created two or three years ago.

IMO our coaching and personnel decisions have had way more to do with our mediocrity than our cap and contract mgmt … but gzuz, have a little foresight, the options / choices you make each year are directly tied to contract shenanigans you were orchestrating in previous years. These things go hand in hand.

I'll stick by that we hit it big in FA in 2024. Darnold, Grenard, Van Ginkel, Cashman, Redmond, Jones.

That's not why we are the worst team in the playoffs every other year. It's the drafts. Any competent drafting(to go along with the FA hits we had) and we would be in the hunt every year. But, KAM spent 85% of his drafts on stiffs.

2024 was a very good FA haul. I doubt anybody has said otherwise.

So, improving the roster, check, winning offseason media scorecards, check … a humdinger.

2022,2023, 2025 - not so much … some good ones, some stinkers.

I just prefer to measure the FA success of the team, including the business operation, on the football success of the team. Of course there are a lot of other factors than FA … not just the draft (which is critical).

I get it. Playing with monopoly money as a fan is fun. Instant gratification is fun.

The overriding problem is that free agents are supposed to supplement a core. The Vikings keep having to sign free agents to be the core

Sure, I understand this. And I understand you have to be creative in that situation and find nooks and crannies to hide and defer money to compensate FAs. Of course. I’ts just not an ideal way to operate.

I confess I was really happy with last offseason’s haul. Positionally, IMO it was spot on (except for CB) to where we needed to improve (both lines). None of that worked out (both lines) like I had hoped … I didn’t know the FAs, just that we were addressing positions.

Its like a double whammy if the FA doesnt work out and you used contract sorcery to bring them.

This stuff compounds on itself … it just does. Decisions are affected.

Some people believe there’s always a creative way to deal with it. I think its more of a roller coaster than it needs to be, with a little discipline.

We wouldn't need the FA contract sorcery if we had better success in draft. We would have a good number of solid contributors on cheaper rookie contracts. But, we don't because we drafted a lot of stiffs.

Hopefully that changes this year as we have 4 picks in 1st three rounds. To get back on track with salary cap and avoiding void years contracts, we need a home run draft. Probably two in a row(2026 and 2027).

Yes, understood. I keep agreeing with this point.

Bad drafting leads to heavier dependance on FA leads to filthier bookeeping.

As far as the draft, I’m not sure what to expect. Since I assume the same draft apparatus is in place that provided Kwesi with his options before and during the draft.

Saying, it couldnt be worse … is not true. It can always be worse or better. Its still gambling on young human specimens with unpredictable behavior. Young men, no less, at the bottom of the mental / maturity pyramid, down there with some lizards and a flatworm or two. Based on my example.

I am hoping for way way better. KOC has some work to do to start rebuilding my confidence at least.
Post #: 2627
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 2/16/2026 12:13:42 PM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 40711
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes


As far as the draft, I’m not sure what to expect. Since I assume the same draft apparatus is in place that provided Kwesi with his options before and during the draft.




From what I've been hearing, Kwesi didn't really listen to scouts and such and based most of his personnel decisions on Analytics. Including the draft. You know, scouts that have literally watched thousands of players play and can see a good with in the blink of an eye.

But for some people the numbers tell the entire story....blah blah blah bullshit. Success in College does not necessarily translate to the pros. There wss a legitimate debate in 1998 over who was better, Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf. and at the time most people could argue that Leaf would have been better, But some scouts saw things in Leaf they didn't like....and they were right. but I'm betting the analytics would have steered Kwesi to Leaf. And one little thing made all the difference. we ended up with HOFer and a basket case.

Kwesi was the wrong guy for the GM job. He had no clue about player evaluation outside of numbers..

And he didn't listen to anyone.

_____________________________

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Post #: 2628
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 2/16/2026 12:56:12 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 6177
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes


As far as the draft, I’m not sure what to expect. Since I assume the same draft apparatus is in place that provided Kwesi with his options before and during the draft.




From what I've been hearing, Kwesi didn't really listen to scouts and such and based most of his personnel decisions on Analytics. Including the draft. You know, scouts that have literally watched thousands of players play and can see a good with in the blink of an eye.

But for some people the numbers tell the entire story....blah blah blah bullshit. Success in College does not necessarily translate to the pros. There wss a legitimate debate in 1998 over who was better, Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf. and at the time most people could argue that Leaf would have been better, But some scouts saw things in Leaf they didn't like....and they were right. but I'm betting the analytics would have steered Kwesi to Leaf. And one little thing made all the difference. we ended up with HOFer and a basket case.

Kwesi was the wrong guy for the GM job. He had no clue about player evaluation outside of numbers..

And he didn't listen to anyone.

Yes I have been listening to this chatter as well.

Who really knows?

It sounds like a reasonable explanation ... Kwesi's approach, whatever that was, wasn't working. That much is evident.

As far as Kwesi's analytics picking leaf over manning ... ok. pure conjecture.

Maybe we don't need a GM to operate in the draft, anticipate runs on positions, man the phones and gauge interest in trades, etc.

Hope we have an anti-Tice clock management specialist to assist KOC.

If it works this year, its only because KOC and Flores seem to have a really strong relationship ...

otherwise I'd worry about KOC slaking his thirst and drafting 4 TEs in the first 3 rds. Or at least offensive heavy.

All kidding aside, its going to be a lot more interesting as a whole than last year's draft after the Turner pick.
Post #: 2629
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 2/16/2026 12:59:40 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 32797
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes


As far as the draft, I’m not sure what to expect. Since I assume the same draft apparatus is in place that provided Kwesi with his options before and during the draft.




From what I've been hearing, Kwesi didn't really listen to scouts and such and based most of his personnel decisions on Analytics. Including the draft. You know, scouts that have literally watched thousands of players play and can see a good with in the blink of an eye.

But for some people the numbers tell the entire story....blah blah blah bullshit. Success in College does not necessarily translate to the pros. There wss a legitimate debate in 1998 over who was better, Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf. and at the time most people could argue that Leaf would have been better, But some scouts saw things in Leaf they didn't like....and they were right. but I'm betting the analytics would have steered Kwesi to Leaf. And one little thing made all the difference. we ended up with HOFer and a basket case.

Kwesi was the wrong guy for the GM job. He had no clue about player evaluation outside of numbers..

And he didn't listen to anyone.


Great points on Manning v Leaf. Interestingly enough years later Leaf said he simply didn't like the game, but he was also said to be lazy with a prima donna persona and arrogance mixed in. Maybe those two things fed off each other but ultimately he was incredibly terrible.
Post #: 2630
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