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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 12:57:19 PM

David Levine

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From: Las Vegas
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NFL trade deadline grades: J.J. McCarthy to the Giants

Giants get: QB J.J. McCarthy
Vikings get: 2027 fifth-round pick

Giants grade: C
Vikings grade: B+

McCarthy's pro career has gone poorly so far, which is putting it mildly. He suffered a season-ending knee injury in August 2024, which helped Sam Darnold become the starting quarterback. McCarthy was named the starter last season after Darnold departed in free agency but started only 10 games after a series of injuries cost him time. And when he was on the field, the results were not good.

McCarthy posted a 36.1 QBR in 2025 (which ranked 38th out of 45 quarterbacks with at least 100 pass attempts) and recorded a minus-5% pass rate over expected, per NFL Next Gen Stats (43rd out of 45). He threw interceptions at a 4.2% clip (44th), took sacks on 9.4% of dropbacks (40th) and had a 1.8% fumble rate (41st). More alarming is that he did all that while playing for Kevin O'Connell, who has seemingly elevated most of the non-McCarthy quarterbacks he has called plays for.

During training camp, not only did McCarthy lose the Vikings' starting quarterback competition to Kyler Murray, but he then lost the backup competition to Carson Wentz, too. That is a telling red flag.

So why would the Giants trade for him? McCarthy presumably still has some upside based on his draft pedigree, and the Giants are hoping they can profit from him realizing it. But it's hard not to notice the fact that this is John Harbaugh trading for the quarterback his brother, Jim Harbaugh, coached in college at Michigan.

It is difficult to know from the outside which other backup quarterbacks would have been available, but McCarthy still does not seem like an ideal choice. Mac Jones and Spencer Rattler ought to have been the team's first calls (maybe they were). Kirk Cousins probably is off the board with the Raiders sitting at 3-0. Mitchell Trubisky might have been available, considering this already looks like a lost season for Tennessee. And I'm assuming Gardner Minshew II surely must be available, considering he sits in veteran no-man's land between Jacoby Brissett and rookie Carson Beck. Stetson Bennett IV could have been an option, too, after the Rams selected Ty Simpson in the first round of this year's draft. I'll grant that some of those options have less upside than McCarthy.

Even though Murray is a free agent at the end of this season, McCarthy's ship had already sailed in Minnesota after he couldn't beat out Wentz. If he wasn't going to be Vikings' backup quarterback, his value would likely have continued to drop. To get a fifth-round pick while saving a few million across his remaining 2026 and 2027 compensation (not nothing!) makes sense. They have uncertainty at quarterback in 2027, yes. But that was true whether McCarthy was there or not.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/50043542/2026-trade-deadline-grades-latest-best-worst-deals

< Message edited by David Levine -- 9/28/2026 12:59:17 PM >

Post #: 351

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 12:58:34 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 20313
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online

This is/was clearly a rift between KOC and JJM. No other explanation. The reporting has hinted at it (and sometimes not a hint). The timing is everything. That said, we can't just roll with this QB room, as is. Too good of a team

Post #: 352

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 1:00:31 PM

nfrosty

Posts: 101
Joined: 4/27/2015
From: Carson City, NV
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: nfrosty

Trading JJM was a surprise. Makes me wonder what's going on with Murray struggling and Wentz looking like no more than a good backup. Perhaps a big trade in the works for Mac Jones.

I doubt SF would trade him after their good start. They were rumored to be interested in Herbert too but I just don’t see that either.
The timing of this trade is so weird.

So messy.

Jones is free agent after this year. If the Niners want anything for him they would have to trade now. I think if the price were right they would make a trade. Trading JJM right now looks more like a move to make roster space since a 5th round pick isn't that big of deal.

Post #: 353

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 1:01:23 PM

Jeff Jesser

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Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online

I just have a hard time, btw, wrapping my head around KOC, as a playcaller. Murray hasn't played meaningful games for over a year. Why not give him a couple series of easy things he's good at. Short passes. I get it, you love the downfield stuff. Get him comfy first.

Also, Jennings is known as "Juan and third". Let's run him down on sideline routes deep down the field

Post #: 354

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 1:02:31 PM

David Levine

Posts: 81408
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From: Las Vegas
Status: online

ESPN: "But a combination of injuries, poor throwing mechanics and immaturity left the Vikings unwilling to wait on the possibility of future development -- making him one of the biggest draft busts in team history. McCarthy is one of four Vikings first-round picks -- along Lewis Cine, Dimitrius Underwood and Leo Hayden -- to play 10 or fewer games for the team, according to the Elias Sports Bureau."

Post #: 355

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 1:12:03 PM

Bill Johanesen

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So JJM is on the Mt. Rushmore of busts. Underwood should have his own mountain.

Post #: 356

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 1:15:05 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 20313
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online

The mountain that killed also those Italians back in the day. Mt Cyanide. America!

Post #: 357

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 1:16:01 PM

joejitsu

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

I am getting a bad feeling about this.

Murray's play has been at best anemic and uninspired. Wentz just isn't a starter and Now our third stringer is Max Brosmer....

Not saying things were much better with JJM but, yeesh.

Will be an interesting press conference at noon with KOC.

Why? KOC isn't going to reveal anything. It will be the typical give him a fresh start, saw an opportunity for all concerned, blah, blah.

Exactly. KOC has never had an interesting press conference. He put Common to sleep last week!

A sleeping Common would be more interesting to listen to than an awake one.

You beat me to it!

Post #: 358

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 1:16:27 PM

Arlowe84

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

So JJM is on the Mt. Rushmore of busts. Underwood should have his own mountain.

If I remember Underwood had serious bi-polar issues. Hard to believe they missed that in the pre-draft process.

Kwesi owns 2 of those picks.

Post #: 359

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 1:21:31 PM

beo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

So JJM is on the Mt. Rushmore of busts. Underwood should have his own mountain.

If I remember Underwood had serious bi-polar issues. Hard to believe they missed that in the pre-draft process.

Kwesi owns 2 of those picks.

I believe Underwood's college coach(es) warned Denny... but Denny knew better and desperately needed a pash rusher.
Disaster.

Post #: 360

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 1:21:50 PM

joejitsu

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I just have a hard time, btw, wrapping my head around KOC, as a playcaller. Murray hasn't played meaningful games for over a year. Why not give him a couple series of easy things he's good at. Short passes. I get it, you love the downfield stuff. Get him comfy first.

Also, Jennings is known as "Juan and third". Let's run him down on sideline routes deep down the field

The whole game yesterday was a head scratcher on offense. You're correct about KOC as a play caller. He has no feel for the game, and it makes everything look worse.

Post #: 361

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 1:22:43 PM

Bill Johanesen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

So JJM is on the Mt. Rushmore of busts. Underwood should have his own mountain.

If I remember Underwood had serious bi-polar issues. Hard to believe they missed that in the pre-draft process.

Kwesi owns 2 of those picks.

Green's 'bonus pick'. He and his buddy Solomon thought they were invincible after Green drafted Moss.

Post #: 362

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 1:24:51 PM

Bill Johanesen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

So JJM is on the Mt. Rushmore of busts. Underwood should have his own mountain.

If I remember Underwood had serious bi-polar issues. Hard to believe they missed that in the pre-draft process.

Kwesi owns 2 of those picks.

I believe Underwood's college coach(es) warned Denny... but Denny knew better and desperately needed a pash rusher.
Disaster.

I thought the coaches were prepared to discuss things with Green but he never inquired with them.

Post #: 363

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 1:26:26 PM

Chris Olson

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Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Saratoga Springs, NY
Status: online

my guess is we roll with what we have...

if Mac Jones is available for a 5th, we can give them one...

I think we have a spare

Post #: 364

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 1:28:04 PM

Bill Johanesen

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No, Dennis Green did not personally visit Michigan State University to scout Dimitrius Underwood before selecting him in the first round of the 1999 NFL Draft.

In fact, the Minnesota Vikings drafted Underwood 29th overall without their front office or coaching staff doing standard in-person due diligence on him. Because Underwood had missed his entire 1998 senior season at Michigan State with an ankle injury, the Vikings relied strictly on past tape and workout numbers.

By skipping standard pre-draft visits and direct check-ins with the university, Green and the Vikings missed critical warnings:

The Saban Warning: Michigan State's head coach at the time, Nick Saban, as well as Underwood's position coaches, actively warned multiple NFL scouts and teams that Underwood was not mentally or emotionally prepared for the pressures of the NFL.

The Lack of Contact: Because Green didn't interview the Spartans' coaching staff directly, the Vikings remained completely unaware of Underwood's deep mental health struggles and lack of focus on football.

Green famously called Underwood a "bonus pick" on draft night, but the lack of an in-person visit quickly backfired. Underwood walked out of training camp after just one practice, never playing a single snap for the franchise.

Post #: 365

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 1:33:36 PM

Phil Riewer

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Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

So JJM is on the Mt. Rushmore of busts. Underwood should have his own mountain.

If I remember Underwood had serious bi-polar issues. Hard to believe they missed that in the pre-draft process.

Kwesi owns 2 of those picks.

Worst thing is a pick later....a DE that helped Atlanta for many years (Kerney). 82.5 Career sacks or LB Al Wilson 2 picks after Underwood.

Both would have helped the defense.

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Post #: 366

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 1:57:16 PM

Lars

Posts: 11522
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
Status: offline

Williamson
Treadwell
Cine
Gladney
Hughes
Ponder
D. Alexander

Lots to choose from in recent history with first round busts....

They gave Ponder way more starts than JJM, but it has become even more of a "prove-it-now" league since then.

PS - I think they roll with what they have (or add some other scrub as QB3)

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Post #: 367

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 2:20:58 PM

Trekgeekscott

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Two posts above mention a trade for Mac Jones. That scenario fits WRT to the lack of QB talent on the roster. Have they already seen enough of Murray to seek an upgrade via a trade?

But then are they hitching the wagon to Mac Jones?

At the same time, trading JJM doesn't really move the needle as far as the QB room goes. Bring in another boom/bust guy right now and things are the same tomorrow as they were early this morning.

Looking to the draft, the 3-0 start doesn't help in terms of massing resources for a top QB. Although it's not that bad in relative terms because trading up is so expensive to do anyway.

What people seem to be missing about Mac Jones. The 49ers QB is Brock Purdy, who is pretty good but has a lot of injury issues over the past few years. I don't see the 49ers risking not having a viable backup unless they are getting a significant return...meaning a lot more than we just got to give JJM to the Giants.

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Post #: 368

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 2:24:35 PM

Chris Olson

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From: Saratoga Springs, NY
Status: online

I don't think we go after another QB unless Kyler goes down for significant time

Post #: 369

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 2:25:08 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 32163
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Two posts above mention a trade for Mac Jones. That scenario fits WRT to the lack of QB talent on the roster. Have they already seen enough of Murray to seek an upgrade via a trade?

But then are they hitching the wagon to Mac Jones?

At the same time, trading JJM doesn't really move the needle as far as the QB room goes. Bring in another boom/bust guy right now and things are the same tomorrow as they were early this morning.

Looking to the draft, the 3-0 start doesn't help in terms of massing resources for a top QB. Although it's not that bad in relative terms because trading up is so expensive to do anyway.

What people seem to be missing about Mac Jones. The 49ers QB is Brock Purdy, who is pretty good but has a lot of injury issues over the past few years. I don't see the 49ers risking not having a viable backup unless they are getting a significant return...meaning a lot more than we just got to give JJM to the Giants.

There were rumors of the Vikes going after Mac but the cost was rumored to be very high.....same as the rumor about Herbert.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 9/28/2026 2:29:00 PM >

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Post #: 370

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 2:32:22 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 33410
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Two posts above mention a trade for Mac Jones. That scenario fits WRT to the lack of QB talent on the roster. Have they already seen enough of Murray to seek an upgrade via a trade?

But then are they hitching the wagon to Mac Jones?

At the same time, trading JJM doesn't really move the needle as far as the QB room goes. Bring in another boom/bust guy right now and things are the same tomorrow as they were early this morning.

Looking to the draft, the 3-0 start doesn't help in terms of massing resources for a top QB. Although it's not that bad in relative terms because trading up is so expensive to do anyway.

What people seem to be missing about Mac Jones. The 49ers QB is Brock Purdy, who is pretty good but has a lot of injury issues over the past few years. I don't see the 49ers risking not having a viable backup unless they are getting a significant return...meaning a lot more than we just got to give JJM to the Giants.

I think people DO understand the 49ers situation and Jones' value to them. They were looking for a 2nd during the offseason, now maybe they don't want to deal at all unless its one of those offers they can't refuse. Or they don't want to see another player walk away in return for nothing.

Perhaps there will be some clarity on their part after they play Seattle in a couple of weeks. Last year Seattle trounced them 41-6 in the playoffs.

In the broader sense, trading for someone a couple of steps above the group of journeymen seems to be a legit option.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 9/28/2026 2:36:47 PM >

Post #: 371

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 2:40:22 PM

David Levine

Posts: 81408
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Two posts above mention a trade for Mac Jones. That scenario fits WRT to the lack of QB talent on the roster. Have they already seen enough of Murray to seek an upgrade via a trade?

But then are they hitching the wagon to Mac Jones?

At the same time, trading JJM doesn't really move the needle as far as the QB room goes. Bring in another boom/bust guy right now and things are the same tomorrow as they were early this morning.

Looking to the draft, the 3-0 start doesn't help in terms of massing resources for a top QB. Although it's not that bad in relative terms because trading up is so expensive to do anyway.

What people seem to be missing about Mac Jones. The 49ers QB is Brock Purdy, who is pretty good but has a lot of injury issues over the past few years. I don't see the 49ers risking not having a viable backup unless they are getting a significant return...meaning a lot more than we just got to give JJM to the Giants.

There were rumors of the Vikes going after Mac but the cost was rumored to be very high.....same as the rumor about Herbert.

The Herbert problem is financial, not draft picks. The cap hit would've made it virtually impossible.

< Message edited by David Levine -- 9/28/2026 2:48:17 PM >

Post #: 372

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 2:41:01 PM

David Levine

Posts: 81408
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I just have a hard time, btw, wrapping my head around KOC, as a playcaller. Murray hasn't played meaningful games for over a year. Why not give him a couple series of easy things he's good at. Short passes. I get it, you love the downfield stuff. Get him comfy first.

Also, Jennings is known as "Juan and third". Let's run him down on sideline routes deep down the field

Those get batted down...

Post #: 373

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 2:44:42 PM

Trekgeekscott

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From: United Federation of Planets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

I don't think we go after another QB unless Kyler goes down for significant time

I don't know if there ia viable option out there to pursue. and this concerns me in that they are tying all their hopes to a guy that has looked awful so far. It's certainly not istilling confidence in me.

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Post #: 374

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2026 2:45:32 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 20313
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online

Herbert isn't worth the money. He's a mess

Post #: 375