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RE: College Basketball - 2/18/2009 7:42:23 AM

Guest

You did say, "I'm not sure his teams will ever win." Anyway.....

So, just out of curiousity, which young player (over the last several years) fits your description of not just a stat guy but a winner?

Post #: 251

RE: College Basketball - 2/18/2009 9:15:38 AM

djskillz

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From: Nashville, TN
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I'd say Rose will be that. I'd say Paul and James and Wade are that. There's a lot of examples.

Again, just my personal take. Not saying it's gospel or anything, but that's the way I see it.

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 252

RE: College Basketball - 2/18/2009 9:28:22 AM

Steve Lentz

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Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete C

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

I'm very divided on Griffin longterm, just like Beasley, IMO. Should be a "stat" guy, but I'm not sure his teams will ever win. Going to be interesting to see.

I've never understood this argument. To me the biggest thing that separates a "winner" from a "stat guy" is circumstance. Does he have championship caliber players around him? Does he have a good coach with a good system?

The only exception is if there is actually something wrong mentally with the guy - Carmelo suffered from this for most of his early career, but seems to actually be getting over it.

Kevin Durant can be the #1 guy on a championship team - he's that good. He's an almost scarily efficient scorer, very solid rebounder and has the tools to be a good defender. His scoring and rebounding are in line with what LeBron was doing at 20. He doesn't get the assists, but he shoots a MUCH better percent than LeBron. He also has more career game winning shots than LBJ. And he's 20 years old with a year and a half of NBA experience. To pigeonhole him this soon seems like a bias more than anything.

*************************
So if somehow Griffin ended up on the Lakers, Celtics or Cavs, that would be the end of them?

No, because then he'd be a 4th guy on the team. I'm saying that as a FIRST option I'm not sure if he'll ever be a "winner". It's a bit like "2nd" players. KG is a great great player but I always said he'd never win a title as a 1st option. And well, I still don't think he did. Pierce stepped up and had a wonderful finals and was the "1" on that team at the end IMO.

Wow.
KG got his ring. Was he the first SCORING option? Many times he was but that's NEVER been his game. He is a complete player and his defense, rebounding, passing, and leadership got him that ring as the Celtics most complete player.
IMO you greatly underestimate Durant, Griiffin, and Beasley as well. Durant is certainly capable of being the number 1 scoring option on a championship team. Griffin hasn't played an NBA game yet is as dominate a college player as we've seen in years. Beasley may or may not ever be the number 1 scoring option but his game is evolving and he's a rookie. Give it some time.

< Message edited by Steve Lentz -- 2/18/2009 6:24:59 PM >

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Post #: 253

RE: College Basketball - 2/21/2009 10:25:09 PM

Guest

Even though they lost, pretty gritty performance from Oklahoma, without Griffin for most of the game.
Texas really needed that win. Willie Warren, not surprisingly to some, was outstanding. I'd really like to see him and Evans stay in school for one more year.

Post #: 254

RE: College Basketball - 2/23/2009 12:01:02 AM

djskillz

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From: Nashville, TN
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Good win by Duke today, much needed.

Henderson is a such a beast, and Elliott Williams really adds a lot. I'd like to see a lineup of Williams/Scheyer/Henderson/Singler/Plumlee much more often. Never thought Elliott would get this much of a chance for PT this year, but I guess he's a must now.

Oh, and Jim Calhoun is 100% correct IMO. That "reporter" needs to STFU.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 255

RE: College Basketball - 2/25/2009 11:25:45 PM

Steve Lentz

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Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Good win by Duke today, much needed.

Henderson is a such a beast, and Elliott Williams really adds a lot. I'd like to see a lineup of Williams/Scheyer/Henderson/Singler/Plumlee much more often. Never thought Elliott would get this much of a chance for PT this year, but I guess he's a must now.

Oh, and Jim Calhoun is 100% correct IMO. That "reporter" needs to STFU.

I found the whole encounter amusing and Calhoun wasn't entirely correct either.

_____________________________

" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"

Post #: 256

RE: College Basketball - 2/25/2009 11:29:53 PM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Good win by Duke today, much needed.

Henderson is a such a beast, and Elliott Williams really adds a lot. I'd like to see a lineup of Williams/Scheyer/Henderson/Singler/Plumlee much more often. Never thought Elliott would get this much of a chance for PT this year, but I guess he's a must now.

Oh, and Jim Calhoun is 100% correct IMO. That "reporter" needs to STFU.

I found the whole encounter amusing and Calhoun wasn't entirely correct either.

********************************
You have to take Calhoun with a grain of salt. Afterall, he thinks, hands down, that Thabeet is the player of the year, and sadly, he's been quite vocal about it.

I don't hear Capel using his platform to pimp Griffin. Calhoun should decide if he wants to continue to be a coach or get a job as a PR guy.

I can't believe that he's positioning himself for the AD spot. He has loftier goals.

< Message edited by Pete C -- 2/25/2009 11:48:03 PM >

Post #: 257

RE: College Basketball - 3/1/2009 10:38:06 PM

Steve Lentz

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My Creighton Bluejays tied for the conference crown. They have a 10 game winning streak going and the least known GREAT shooter in the nation in Booker Woodfox. Still need a couple more wins to get to the dance though.

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Post #: 258

RE: College Basketball - 3/1/2009 10:56:06 PM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

My Creighton Bluejays tied for the conference crown. They have a 10 game winning streak going and the least known GREAT shooter in the nation in Booker Woodfox. Still need a couple more wins to get to the dance though.

Like the great years of Benoit Benjamin, eh Steve.

Post #: 259

RE: College Basketball - 3/2/2009 11:48:20 AM

Steve Lentz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

My Creighton Bluejays tied for the conference crown. They have a 10 game winning streak going and the least known GREAT shooter in the nation in Booker Woodfox. Still need a couple more wins to get to the dance though.

Like the great years of Benoit Benjamin, eh Steve.

One of the all time greats that actually forgot one of his shoes before a game.

I prefer to remember Paul Silas and Kyle Korver. Not to mention Bob Gibson.

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Post #: 260

RE: College Basketball - 3/10/2009 9:17:51 PM

Mark Anderson

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Any NDSU Bison fans here.

We're going dancing!!

Post #: 261

RE: College Basketball - 3/10/2009 9:47:08 PM

Steve Lentz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

Any NDSU Bison fans here.

We're going dancing!!

Congrats Mark. I quit watching in the first half when they were down 10 or so.

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" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"

Post #: 262

RE: College Basketball - 3/10/2009 10:18:35 PM

Mark Anderson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

Any NDSU Bison fans here.

We're going dancing!!

Congrats Mark. I quit watching in the first half when they were down 10 or so.

It was kind of an ugly game but we will take it. I'm thinking we are a 14th or 15th seed.

Post #: 263

RE: College Basketball - 3/11/2009 10:06:25 AM

Steve Lentz

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As an old NCC fan I'm thrilled for you Mark. IMO the NCC had the best overall athletic programs in Division 2.

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Post #: 264

RE: College Basketball - 3/11/2009 10:28:21 AM

So.Mn.Fan

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Good stuff guys.
Go Creighton! Always a good story there.
Congrats NDSU! Thats big for the program.
SDSU girls are rolling this year as well.
D1? No problem. Lots of local girls/guys done good in these type of programs.
Awesome for schools and their communities.

Post #: 265

RE: College Basketball - 3/12/2009 4:24:55 PM

Jim Frenette

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Are the Big East the beasts again? I saw one person project three teams from that conference getting #1 seeds. I can't remeber that ever happening before

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Fargo

Post #: 266

RE: College Basketball - 3/12/2009 4:35:04 PM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

Are the Big East the beasts again? I saw one person project three teams from that conference getting #1 seeds. I can't remeber that ever happening before

**********************************
The only way Lousiville gets a #1 is if they win the conference tourney.

Pitt and UConn pretty much have two of the #1's locked up.

Might be interesting to see if Pitt rests Levance Fields tonight. He's not 100%. Maybe they'll rest him. They're not the same without him. Either way, I would not be surprised to see WV upset them.

Post #: 267

RE: College Basketball - 3/12/2009 6:39:08 PM

Jim Frenette

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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete C

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

Are the Big East the beasts again? I saw one person project three teams from that conference getting #1 seeds. I can't remeber that ever happening before

**********************************
The only way Lousiville gets a #1 is if they win the conference tourney.

Pitt and UConn pretty much have two of the #1's locked up.

Might be interesting to see if Pitt rests Levance Fields tonight. He's not 100%. Maybe they'll rest him. They're not the same without him. Either way, I would not be surprised to see WV upset them.

Didn't Louisville win the conference? I think they pulled it off beatinf Pitt last week. If so, then they should get a #1 before the other 2

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Fargo

Post #: 268

RE: College Basketball - 3/12/2009 7:01:18 PM

Guest

Yes, Louisville won the conference, but that in itself is not enough to get them a #1 seed. They have a couple of pretty bad losses, including a big loss to UConn. Also, they only played UConn, Pitt and Villanova one time this season. I'd bet the farm on Louisville not getting a #1 seed unless they win the Big East Tournament.

Post #: 269

RE: College Basketball - 3/12/2009 11:16:46 PM

djskillz

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I'd second that.

Also, what a game from Cuse/UConn tonight. I hope it goes a couple of more OT's.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 270

RE: College Basketball - 3/13/2009 12:01:39 AM

Guest

No kidding. This is crazy.

Post #: 271

RE: College Basketball - 3/13/2009 12:02:39 AM

Guest

Things just got easier for Louisville.

Post #: 272

RE: College Basketball - 3/13/2009 12:05:31 AM

Guest

Wow! Is anybody else watching this?

Post #: 273

RE: College Basketball - 3/13/2009 12:36:36 AM

djskillz

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Quite simply one of the very best games I've ever seen. Amazing. I wish I could've seen the whole thing. I got home close to the end of regulation.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 274

RE: College Basketball - 3/13/2009 12:49:46 AM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Quite simply one of the very best games I've ever seen. Amazing. I wish I could've seen the whole thing. I got home close to the end of regulation.

******************************
Amazing game. Second only to the triple OT LSU/GT game, IMO. Of course I was a big Kenny Anderson fan.

Lots of questions for you, DJ, now that you're in here, but I expect some final four predictions from you and everybody else. A pool would be nice too.

I love the conference tournaments (the more basketball, the better) but I really think it's often times a situation where you're setting up some teams for an upset. For example, is Pitt better off with the rest, or winning the conference tourney? What about Kansas? Oklahoma?

I love the conference tournaments, but I'm not certain you see the best from the best. It's a time for the underdog to shine. Don't get me wrong, I love it that way.

Post #: 275