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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens)

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 2/28/2011 9:54:45 AM   
Jim Frenette


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Status: offline 		I got this from Sid

Gophers men's basketball coach Tubby Smith was in Memphis this past week watching recruit Andre Hollins score 15 points after the guard for White Station High School had scored 38 in his previous game. Smith and director of basketball operations Joe Esposito also were in California recently where they scouted Yuba College 6-3 sophomore Julian Welch and offered him a scholarship. He could start for the Gophers next year and give them the point guard they badly need.

I did a google search on him and I just get him at UC Davis for the 09-10 season. He might have had academic problems and transfered to the JC

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=41577

I'm not sure this is the guy, but possible

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 12:47:19 PM   
panndder


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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 1:16:21 PM   
djskillz


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Status: offline 		They've got to win the tourney to get in at this point. Hopefully they can find some magic.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 1:23:16 PM   
panndder


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

They've got to win the tourney to get in at this point. Hopefully they can find some magic.


Not at all. If they win the next two and the play-in game of the BTT (and don't get blown out against Purdue/Ohio St/Wisconsin) they're sitting somewhat pretty on the bubble. The latest bracket from Fox Sports (which I don't completely believe, but to use as a sign of best case at this point) has them IN as a 12 seed at the moment.
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 1:26:37 PM   
djskillz


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Status: offline 		Disagree. Wins over crappy Penn State and Northwestern, plus a play-in game win, are not going to get them to the tourney. I think they have to win it all. Or at least get to the finals.

Lunardi has them clearly out (not even on the bubble) in his latest. And their RPI is 58.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 3/2/2011 1:28:41 PM >

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 1:31:49 PM   
panndder


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Status: offline 		Lunardi's last four IN (not out) have 3 teams with worse RPI and one (Michigan) that's JUST ahead of the Gophers. I agree they're out at this point, but not by a lot...especially if the committee sees Nolen is back.
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 1:36:48 PM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: panndder

Lunardi's last four IN (not out) have 3 teams with worse RPI and one (Michigan) that's JUST ahead of the Gophers. I agree they're out at this point, but not by a lot...especially if the committee sees Nolen is back.


1) I don't think Nolen makes that big of a difference in the committee's eyes.
2) Wins against Penn State and Northwestern are not going to impress anyone.

Also,

Memphis' RPI is 34.
Boston College's RPI is 38.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 3/2/2011 1:42:06 PM >

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 1:47:26 PM   
panndder


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Status: offline 		Most on the committee have stated publicly that they definitely consider a team's recent performance (uh oh) and more applicably in this case its performance with the guys they have going into the tournament (potential yay). We're not looking to get impressive wins, we're just looking for wins. You can't tell me that losses to mediocre Big Ten teams killed us but wins wouldn't do squat, that's completely illogical.

What I meant was: RPI isn't everything. Just because you classically have to be a Top 50ish RPI team to make it as an at-large doesn't mean it's a guarantee. They'd be scratching 50 if they win the next 2 anyways, I would guess.
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 1:59:18 PM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: panndder

Most on the committee have stated publicly that they definitely consider a team's recent performance (uh oh) and more applicably in this case its performance with the guys they have going into the tournament (potential yay). We're not looking to get impressive wins, we're just looking for wins. You can't tell me that losses to mediocre Big Ten teams killed us but wins wouldn't do squat, that's completely illogical.

What I meant was: RPI isn't everything. Just because you classically have to be a Top 50ish RPI team to make it as an at-large doesn't mean it's a guarantee. They'd be scratching 50 if they win the next 2 anyways, I would guess.


Actually, it's not. Bad losses count against you. Bad wins don't really do anything for you. I actually listened to a guy who's been on the committee last night and he was saying exactly that. Quality wins matter, especially road wins. Home wins or "conference" wins not as much. They don't even consider conference record at all much. It's all about the overall quality of schedule/wins. Bad losses hurt you. "Bad" wins don't do much of anything.

Also, "50" doesn't usually lock you in. 30 usually locks you in. Because there are so many automatic qualifiers. Anything above that puts you in bubble territory.

The Gophers aren't even on the bubble by either Lunardi or the Bubble Watch by Brennan. And wins over Penn State and Northwestern aren't going to put them there. Heck, Tubby himself has insinuated they're done.

I hope I'm wrong; I hope against hope that they make it. But it's not realistic without at least a very deep run in the Big10 tournament at this point.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 3/2/2011 2:02:36 PM >

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 2:06:51 PM   
djskillz


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Status: offline 		3 "good" wins all year, one of which was to a team that was FAR, FAR worse than they are now (UNC). Then WV and Purdue (at home in Purdue's case).

Michigan, a very tenuous bubble team themselves, is their best road win all year. That's not going to get it done.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 2:15:07 PM   
djskillz


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Status: offline 		As of right now, if they win out:

Play-in game: vs. Iowa or Indiana (easily winnable but doesn't do anything for a tourney case)
Next rd: Likely Purdue
New rd: Likely Wisconsin

I think they'd have to win the next 5 games in a row to make it. Which is essentially making it to the tourney final, likely against Ohio State.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 2:17:41 PM   
SoMnFan


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Status: offline 		I'd be disappointed in any tournament that let them in.
NO WAY they deserve to be in the NCAAs (from what I've seen).
Even if they win out.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 2:20:56 PM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

I'd be disappointed in any tournament that let them in.
NO WAY they deserve to be in the NCAAs (from what I've seen).
Even if they win out.


That's basically what I'm saying. They're not deserving, at all. Their overall body of work is incredibly weak. 1 good road win all year. 3 good wins, period, all year, one of which is not impressive at all for what that team was at the time.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 2:22:34 PM   
SoMnFan


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Status: offline 		Once they blew some early B10 road games, its over.
Thats where you make improvements to become elite.
Can't get it done in this conf on the road, you are not legit nationally.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 2:29:08 PM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Once they blew some early B10 road games, its over.
Thats where you make improvements to become elite.
Can't get it done in this conf on the road, you are not legit nationally.


Yep. And time and time again the committee's have stated that big road wins are huge, huge factors in the process. As they should be. You can't win big road games during your season, you probably won't in the tourney either.

6-10 (or 8-10) in the Big10 doesn't count for much in the process, but it's not impressive either.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 4:24:08 PM   
panndder


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Status: offline 		How many bubble teams have great road wins? This comes back to the "Al Nolen should be John Wall or else he sucks" type of logic.
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 4:42:55 PM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: panndder

How many bubble teams have great road wins? This comes back to the "Al Nolen should be John Wall or else he sucks" type of logic.


Ummm, pretty sure I never said anything close to that. Just said that the Gophers can and should do better at PG (ditto for SG) if they want to compete. Nolen would be one of the very worst starting PG's of anyone in the top 25-30 teams. Nothing untrue about that statement at all.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 9:33:22 PM   
Mr. Ed


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Status: offline 		Let

Tubby

Go


and hope he can take this underachieving bunch with him.

Just another pathetic effort. up 10, and fall to pieces.

Another night of horsecrap D on the perimeter.

ANother night of unimaginative offense. Rotate around the arc until you chuck up some crap.

It wasn't working. Run a different offense. Iverson at the top of the key does zero good.

And the players?

Sampson. Lazy D on Churna. Terrible.

Williams. steal late, kid has position and plow over him with a jump from near the free throw line. Absolutely ZERO court presence.

I'm facing facts. This is not a good team. It's a very mediocre team that has zero clue how to finish a game.

Some of that is kids.
Some of that is the coach.

I'll be impressed if they beat Penn State Sunday. They simply suck right now.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 9:39:24 PM   
djskillz


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From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Pa-the-tic.

Not sure they should make the NIT at this point.

Awful.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 9:40:00 PM   
panndder


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Status: offline 		I'll say this much without a shred of doubt in my mind: Tubby is not the problem here.
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 9:42:56 PM   
Mr. Ed


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Status: offline 		There really are some heart-less guys on this team. The effort was not there.

A bunch of that is on the "talent", and on the leaders.

And the rest is on the coaching.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 9:47:05 PM   
panndder


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Status: offline 		Tubby doesn't have the personnel to play the game. Johnson graduated, but it should have bee a safe bet that one of Carter or Williams could fill that role. Neither can at this point. He lost the Cory Joseph sweeps, but there was (don't shoot me guys) nothing wrong with Nolen at point but he's not playing. Cory Joseph's older brother quit the team, and that in addition to Westbrook graduating left us with the mess of guards we have now. They'll be fine long-term, but I knew from the moment that Cory Joseph's pot smoking older brother quit the team our season rode on Al Nolen. Not really Tubby's fault, except he should have found a point guard playing a pickup game at Van Cleve Park or something...
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 9:50:41 PM   
djskillz


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From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Doesn't Tubby get some blame though for control of the team? White, Williams, Joseph, Mbakwe....

At some point he has to take some blame and take control of these kids. Or choose different kids.

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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/2/2011 10:17:20 PM   
panndder


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Doesn't Tubby get some blame though for control of the team? White, Williams, Joseph, Mbakwe....

At some point he has to take some blame and take control of these kids. Or choose different kids.


I don't blame him on White, that was a situation he could not win. Everyone would be up in arms if he didn't recruit best local talent in years. Williams was recruited as a raw, high ceiling guy. He's shown brief flashes of getting it together but I don't know who to blame for still forgetting how to be a basketball player halfway through his career. I don't know the full story with Joseph, and probably never will. Mbakwe...not sure what there is to complain about him. He seems pretty damn unlucky from what I can tell, with a pinch of being bad at avoiding trouble.

Everything that has gone wrong in the past two years, has. It's the curse of Gangelhoff.
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RE: Gopher Basketball (Mens) - 3/3/2011 10:54:13 AM   
Jim Frenette


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quote:

ORIGINAL: panndder

Tubby doesn't have the personnel to play the game. Johnson graduated, but it should have bee a safe bet that one of Carter or Williams could fill that role. Neither can at this point. He lost the Cory Joseph sweeps, but there was (don't shoot me guys) nothing wrong with Nolen at point but he's not playing. Cory Joseph's older brother quit the team, and that in addition to Westbrook graduating left us with the mess of guards we have now. They'll be fine long-term, but I knew from the moment that Cory Joseph's pot smoking older brother quit the team our season rode on Al Nolen. Not really Tubby's fault, except he should have found a point guard playing a pickup game at Van Cleve Park or something...


I don't see them as fine long term. I'm not crazy about Ahamise as PG of the future, and everyone else is afraid to shoot even when wide open.

Tubby's streak of 20 win seasons might end this year.

As for perimeter defense, Tubby has no choice to play a zone that invites teams to throw it up from outside. He hasn't got the players to play man to man

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