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RE: RE:NFL News - 11/25/2008 1:57:20 PM

Easy E

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

Yeah, well, I'm not the biggest Favre fan, but this is the same Jets team that sucked last year.

Their offense sucked balls last year. I mean, it was pathetic, bottom dwelling offense of truly sucky proportions. Thomas Jones was the RB, Leon Washington the return/3rd down guy, and Laverneous Coles and Jericho Cotchery the leading recievers.

This year they're one of the best offenses in the league, 2nd in points ever. Thomas Jones is the running back, Leon Washington the return/3rd down guy, and Laverneous Coles and Jericho Cotchery the leading receivers.

Favre has made a huge difference to that team, they've got the 3rd best record in the league. People should probably give him his due, a lot of people thought they wouldn't even make the playoffs. It is painfully obvious that Favre has helped them a ton.

Favre's definitely a part, but I think you discount Alan Faneca and Ferguson gaining experience. Those 2 things are HUGE for the offense. Jenkins is still the MVP of that team IMO, though. I think Collinsworth is dead-on in that assessment.

I definitely don't discount Faneca, I've been saying he's the best guard (better than Hutch for years).

And Jenkins may be the MVP, who knows.

I do know that if they didn't have Favre, Jenkins would be the MVP of a sub .500 team. That offense is nothing without Favre and without the offense making that huge, gigantic, tremendous jump, the Jets aren't that good.

Similarly, the Packers are the exact same on offense except they swapped QBs. They aren't making the playoffs this year.

People can think Favre sucks, that's their perrogative.

Post #: 2801

RE: RE:NFL News - 11/25/2008 2:08:48 PM

djskillz

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I don't think he has sucked this year. I just don't think he's the MVP of his team. And definitely not the MVP of the league. That's all.

He has had a LOT of help. It's kind of like when people credited Steve Nash for Phoenix' huge resurgence, discounting the additions of Amare, Diaw, and Barbosa. Yes, Nash was a big part, but he had a LOT of help.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 2802

RE: RE:NFL News - 11/25/2008 2:14:23 PM

Easy E

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This is the same offense they had last year, except with a great LG and QB. They were a pathetic, disgustingly bad offense last year. They've been horrid for years.

Favre has done much, much better than most people thought he would. He is practically repeating his year last year, which everyone said was a fluke with worse receivers on a brand new team. They are one of the best offenses in the league now.

He is easily, easily a top 10 QB this year. He's more likely a top 5. I'd be happy to be wrong, I don't really like the Jets.

He is probably the MVP of the team, definitely not of the league, unless they go on an extreme winnig streak.

They Jets must have a ton more talent than the Vikes... I guess... or something. I am not that impressed with the collection of skill guys they have.

< Message edited by Easy E -- 11/25/2008 2:17:00 PM >

Post #: 2803

RE: RE:NFL News - 11/25/2008 2:16:55 PM

djskillz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

This is the same offense they had last year, except with a great LG and QB. They were a pathetic, disgustingly bad offense last year. They've been horrid for years.

Favre has done much, much better than most people thought he would. He is practically repeating his year last year, which everyone said was a fluke with worse receivers on a brand new team. They are one of the best offenses in the league now.

He is easily, easily a top 10 QB this year. He's more likely a top 5. I'd be happy to be wrong, I don't really like the Jets.

I still think Ferguson's improvement helps in that regard too. If you have vastly improved line play, your offense is going to be vastly improved too. I really think Clemens would have this team at about the same record as Favre does this year.

We'll just have to disagree I guess.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 2804

RE: RE:NFL News - 11/25/2008 2:18:59 PM

Easy E

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If that is true, the Vikings just need to add one lineman to become twice as good. We can disagree, you're just down playing Favre tremendously, IMO. Clemons won't even be a starter in this league, probably not even in the league in a few years.

Post #: 2805

RE: RE:NFL News - 11/25/2008 2:24:53 PM

djskillz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

If that is true, the Vikings just need to add one lineman to become twice as good. We can disagree, you're just down playing Favre tremendously, IMO. Clemons won't even be a starter in this league, probably not even in the league in a few years.

We disagree on Clemens, that's why. I really like him. You apparently don't.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 2806

RE: RE:NFL News - 11/25/2008 3:19:29 PM

John Childress

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2007 Jets Offense
26th in yards (294.7)
25th in points (16.8)
25th in passing yards (188.4)
19th in rush yards (106.3)

2008 Jets offense
11th in yards (343.1)
2nd in points (29.4)
16th in passing yards (211.9)
8th in rushing yards (131.2)

Since 4 of Favre's first 6 games he threw for less than 200 yards it is possible that the running game is what led the turnaround and now he is benefiting from a strong ground game. Favre had 11 INTs in his first 7 games but only 2 in his last 4. His last 3 games his QB rating has been over 103 each game. In the never ending battle of the chicken and the egg I think the rush begat the pass.

PS - The Vikings are rushing for 30 yards less per game this year

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Post #: 2807

RE: RE:NFL News - 11/25/2008 3:22:01 PM

djskillz

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Thanks JC. That's basically how I see it too. And the defense has also been a huge part in leading to rushing more as well, IMO.

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 2808

RE: RE:NFL News - 11/25/2008 3:51:21 PM

marty

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I think Favre's quick release has made the OL seem better, and his converting 3rd downs allows better chances for rushing more.

I think that with Clemons the Jets would have went 5-11, while with Favre I think they will end up 12-4, maybe 13-3.

Having said all that, I think the game the Jets are MOST likely to lose is the home game next Sunday against the Broncos. The Broncos are coming off a bad home loss while the Jets are sky high after 2 BIG road wins, the Jets will be over-confident and think they can't be beat.

Post #: 2809

RE: RE:NFL News - 11/25/2008 3:53:56 PM

djskillz

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So basically you are saying that a top 2 G in the league, and a top 3 draft pick have had pretty much no effect on the team?

I also vehemently disagree on Clemons.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 2810

RE: RE:NFL News - 11/25/2008 3:59:28 PM

Easy E

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Look for all the ways to discredit Favre. He was playing realatively "poorly" early, and they were losing games. That's a bit to be expected for any QB on a new team.

He has been playing really well lately, and they are one of the hottest teams in the league.

Sure, guys like Faneca and Jenkins have also helped, but you have to really have it out for Favre to not give him credit.

He's top 10 in pretty much every passing stat, he's just flat out playing well. 20 TDs to 13 picks. 94 QB rating. It's the Jets, they have always sucked, there is an obvious big change here, and it's not Thomas Jones finally figuring it out. If you don't think defenses plan to stop Favre, and that helps Jones...

OK, back on track, Favre won't help the Jets, they won't make the playoffs, and they definitely won't win a playoff game. Their chances of getting to the Super Bowl are zero, because let's face it, he sucks.

Green Bay won't miss him at all, they'll be a better team without him. Jerk shoulda stayed retired!

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RE: RE:NFL News - 11/25/2008 4:00:11 PM

marty

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Tim

It's o.k. to go Marty 'sway'

< Message edited by marty -- 11/25/2008 4:05:29 PM >

Post #: 2812

RE: RE:NFL News - 11/25/2008 4:06:10 PM

Easy E

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

So basically you are saying that a top 2 G in the league, and a top 3 draft pick have had pretty much no effect on the team?

I also vehemently disagree on Clemons.

We got Steve Hutchinson and lost more games.

The Jets were a disgustingly bad team last year. They were horrible.

They are now one of the 5 best teams in the league as of this moment, and they just knocked off the only undefeated team.

What does top 3 draft pick mean?

Post #: 2813

RE: RE:NFL News - 11/25/2008 4:09:32 PM

djskillz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

So basically you are saying that a top 2 G in the league, and a top 3 draft pick have had pretty much no effect on the team?

I also vehemently disagree on Clemons.

We got Steve Hutchinson and lost more games.

The Jets were a disgustingly bad team last year. They were horrible.

They are now one of the 5 best teams in the league as of this moment, and they just knocked off the only undefeated team.

What does top 3 draft pick mean?

Ferguson (vastly improving). The Jets were not THAT bad last year. They got some bad breaks, just like they're getting a lot of good ones now. The true team is somewhere in between IMO.

And look, again, I do give Brett credit. He's played well. Very well. I just don't think he's the sole reason for the resurgence, not even close. Much like my Nash analogy.

And I don't think he should be MVP, just like Nash shouldn't have been. That's ALL I'm saying.

And yes, I do think the Jets don't stand a chance of winning the SuperBowl. We'll see. If they somehow do, then that just means the league is even weaker than I think it is right now.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 2814

RE: RE:NFL News - 11/25/2008 4:18:00 PM

Easy E

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You said he wasn't even close to top 10, although now I'm not sure if that meant on his team, NFL QBs, or just MVP candidates around the league.

Look, I'm no fan boi of his but he is having a great year, and IMO you are what you are in the NFL. I don't know if they have a single player on their team that I would take over a Viking guy, other than the Brick. Last year they were every bit of their 4-12 record, it's a collection of unispiring skill players. Most people pegged them at somewhere around 6-7 wins. No one seriously expected them to get to the playoffs, I have to tip my hat to him.

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RE: RE:NFL News - 11/25/2008 4:20:20 PM

djskillz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Easy E

You said he wasn't even close to top 10, although now I'm not sure if that meant on his team, NFL QBs, or just MVP candidates around the league.

Look, I'm no fan boi of his but he is having a great year, and IMO you are what you are in the NFL. I don't know if they have a single player on their team that I would take over a Viking guy, other than the Brick. Last year they were every bit of their 4-12 record, it's a collection of unispiring skill players. Most people pegged them at somewhere around 6-7 wins. No one seriously expected them to get to the playoffs, I have to tip my hat to him.

I think a lot of people expected playoffs after Brady went down.

And I like some of their talent, including Jenkins, Cotchery, Coles, Jones, Washington. As you know, I don't think the Vikes are a good barometer for talent, because we should be a 10-1 team ourselves. Coaching is the issue there.

And ya, I meant MVP voting, he shouldn't be top 10 IMO. QB he has definitely been that this year.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

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RE: RE:NFL News - 11/26/2008 1:50:20 PM

marty

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And yes, I do think the Jets don't stand a chance of winning the SuperBowl. We'll see. If they somehow do, then that just means the league is even weaker than I think it is right now.

This sounds to me like when Packer fans would discount the Vikes when they went 15-1, and would just say the league is so weak. IF your good, then the rest are weak, yes.

I think that if the Jets win 12 games Favre will be highly considered for MVP, and I would say mostly deservedly so, he's played well. But, I should have started Thigpen over him last week, and it probably costed me playoff participation in one FF league. So, I do have some resentment with Favre.

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RE: RE:NFL News - 11/26/2008 2:14:58 PM

Don T in CO

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from fanball.com-

Nov 25, 2008 09:14 PM CST

Quinn out for the year

The News
FOXSports.com is reporting that Browns quarterback Brady Quinn is done for the year. Doctors discovered that the break to his right index finger has gotten worse.

Our View
The injury to Quinn's finger got worse when he tried to play through the pain. With Quinn out for the year, it will be Derek Anderson's team again.

Post #: 2818

RE: RE:NFL News - 11/26/2008 2:15:06 PM

djskillz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

And yes, I do think the Jets don't stand a chance of winning the SuperBowl. We'll see. If they somehow do, then that just means the league is even weaker than I think it is right now.

This sounds to me like when Packer fans would discount the Vikes when they went 15-1, and would just say the league is so weak. IF your good, then the rest are weak, yes.

I think that if the Jets win 12 games Favre will be highly considered for MVP, and I would say mostly deservedly so, he's played well. But, I should have started Thigpen over him last week, and it probably costed me playoff participation in one FF league. So, I do have some resentment with Favre.

No, the league is just really weak this year. It has been for the last few, but it's trending even moreso now.

You think the Titans/Jets/Giants/Panthers are actually really good teams? I sure don't.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

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RE: RE:NFL News - 11/26/2008 2:16:00 PM

djskillz

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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don T in CO

from fanball.com-

Nov 25, 2008 09:14 PM CST

Quinn out for the year

The News
FOXSports.com is reporting that Browns quarterback Brady Quinn is done for the year. Doctors discovered that the break to his right index finger has gotten worse.

Our View
The injury to Quinn's finger got worse when he tried to play through the pain. With Quinn out for the year, it will be Derek Anderson's team again.

Well, looks like Bill Cowher just officially became their new head coach then.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

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RE: RE:NFL News - 11/26/2008 2:54:22 PM

John Childress

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Why would Cowher go to Cleveland? They have no QB. Their players are in revolt. The front office won't give the HC full control. I don't see it.

The Giants aren't a good time, they are a very good team. Over 30 points per game against top 10 defenses.

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No more acceptance of mediocrity!!!! EVER!

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RE: RE:NFL News - 11/26/2008 3:18:11 PM

djskillz

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The earlier report was that they WOULD give him full control. Plus I believe he's a Cleveland guy, and they it's an AFC North team. And I think they DO have a QB in Quinn.

And I totally disagree on the Giants. I still don't think they're all that good. They might appear good, because of the weak league, but I don't think they actually are anything special. They'd be a 6th/7th best team in a good league IMO.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

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RE: RE:NFL News - 11/26/2008 4:15:31 PM

John Childress

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Quinn? Get serious. He is not a franchise Qb

You will see how special the Giants are when the smoke the Vikings

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No more acceptance of mediocrity!!!! EVER!

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RE: RE:NFL News - 11/26/2008 4:21:32 PM

Jim Frenette

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

Quinn? Get serious. He is not a franchise Qb

You will see how special the Giants are when the smoke the Vikings

No way they smoke the Vikings. Manning will hardly see the field this year plus a lot of other stars. Last year they tried for the upset, it just took a month longer to do so.

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Fargo

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RE: RE:NFL News - 11/26/2008 6:17:33 PM

djskillz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

Quinn? Get serious. He is not a franchise Qb

You will see how special the Giants are when the smoke the Vikings

Uh, ok.

And you're writing Quinn off already? He's in his 2nd season!

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 2825