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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Easy E

I clearly do see the contributions of Alan Faneca. I do not ascribe him herculean and mythical abilities to turn a team from one of the worst offenses to one of the best. I give him a lot of credit in the normal range.

But that one player can help younger guys improve with his experience and leadership. 

And I don't ascribe Favre herculean and mythical abilities to turn a team from one of the worst offenses to one of the best.  I give him some credit...but not as much as you do. 

Offense starts at the line of scrimmage.  Hutch improved our Oline quite a bit when he arrived if you recall.  Faneca has had a similar effect in New Yuck.  The Jets OLine has VASTLY improved this year.  Favre, though decent, hasn't been more than average for the most part, that shows up in the individual stats.  He's helped by giving the position something it HASN'T had in recent years...stability.  But stat wise, he really isn't that impressive.

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ORIGINAL: Easy E

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Easy E



But again, those that think Favre is bad and has nothing to do with it, can certainly have their opinion. I realize I won't change that.

And who, E, might that be?

You. I'm not going to play semantic games, tell me the phrase you want me to use and I'll use it. You've said quite clearly that Favre has had the same impact as a lucky bounce of the ball, so whatever kind of credit you want to call that, tell me. To me that's next to none. We can call it the "luck" impact or whatever you want.

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Easy E

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Easy E



But again, those that think Favre is bad and has nothing to do with it, can certainly have their opinion. I realize I won't change that.

And who, E, might that be?

You. I'm not going to play semantic games, tell me the phrase you want me to use and I'll use it. You've said quite clearly that Favre has had the same impact as a lucky bounce of the ball, so whatever kind of credit you want to call that, tell me. To me that's next to none. We can call it the "luck" impact or whatever you want.

E, I like you and respect your opinion most of the time...but quite frankly I want you go back, read all my posts and quote where I said "that Favre is bad and nothing to do with it...".  Otherwise...don't put words in my mouth.  I have given Favre credit.  Just not as much as you.  And I already said today that I don't think Favre is bad.  This kind of bs is beneath you...

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ORIGINAL: Easy E

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Easy E

I clearly do see the contributions of Alan Faneca. I do not ascribe him herculean and mythical abilities to turn a team from one of the worst offenses to one of the best. I give him a lot of credit in the normal range.

But that one player can help younger guys improve with his experience and leadership. 

And I don't ascribe Favre herculean and mythical abilities to turn a team from one of the worst offenses to one of the best.  I give him some credit...but not as much as you do. 

Offense starts at the line of scrimmage.  Hutch improved our Oline quite a bit when he arrived if you recall.  Faneca has had a similar effect in New Yuck.  The Jets OLine has VASTLY improved this year.  Favre, though decent, hasn't been more than average for the most part, that shows up in the individual stats.  He's helped by giving the position something it HASN'T had in recent years...stability.  But stat wise, he really isn't that impressive.

You give him the same as a lucky bounce of the ball. I give him credit based on his play. About the same as one OL player, which means less than the line as a whole.

And I think we all know that who your QB is, and your line's confidence in him is a two way street. Obviously not in this case, because it's Favre, but in most cases the protection and play of the line goes hand in hand with the QB.

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ORIGINAL: Easy E

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Easy E

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Easy E



But again, those that think Favre is bad and has nothing to do with it, can certainly have their opinion. I realize I won't change that.

And who, E, might that be?

You. I'm not going to play semantic games, tell me the phrase you want me to use and I'll use it. You've said quite clearly that Favre has had the same impact as a lucky bounce of the ball, so whatever kind of credit you want to call that, tell me. To me that's next to none. We can call it the "luck" impact or whatever you want.

E, I like you and respect your opinion most of the time...but quite frankly I want you go back, read all my posts and quote where I said "that Favre is bad and nothing to do with it...".  Otherwise...don't put words in my mouth.  I have given Favre credit.  Just not as much as you.  And I already said today that I don't think Favre is bad.  This kind of bs is beneath you...

Scott, I apologize.

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ORIGINAL: Easy E

Scott, I apologize again, although that was just a snarky comment to make a point, I didn't ascribe the words to you.

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Easy E

Scott, I apologize again, although that was just a snarky comment to make a point, I didn't ascribe the words to you.

Actually, I was typing that response to that post when you apologized the first time...I was going to change it...but didn't get back to it in time.  So I apologize too. 

I can get pretty stubborn and combative at times...so If that happened here...I am sorry too. 

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ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

It used to be that after the college season was over, we could count on 2 NFL games on a couple of Saturdays. Now with the NFL Network, we no longer have that. Instead they are airing 1 on Saturday night. I think that is unfair to the people that can't get their Network because they both are being hard headed

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ORIGINAL: marty

You give him 10%, I say Favre is 70% the reason for the Jets' turnaround, and 70% to the Packers' decline.  With Pennington, I don't think the Jets would have won AT NE or AT Tennessee, and I think he loses one of the other 7 wins.     

So my compromise is, NOT giving Favre ALL the credit, that the Jets might have still won 6 with Pennington, instead of the 9 with Favre.  The Jets 2ndary still sucks, it's the same one they had last year.  IF the Jets lose the last 2, it's 9 wins with Favre, 6 with Pennington.  IF they win the last 2, it's 11 wins with Favre, 8 with Pennington.    

I'll compromise on the Packers as well.  Instead of saying the Packers would have 9 wins right now with Favre, going to a 3 game improvement would have them at 8 wins (instead of 5).  The Pack would be 8-6, still with a shot to win the division, or a wildcard.  I can probably accept that.   IF the Packers drop their last 2, they'll be 5-11, so I'll go with they would have been 8-8 with Favre, also missing the playoffs. 

I'm NOT using this as an excuse should Favre play poorly in the playoffs, I've always stated that Favre was a great REGULAR season QB, with unusual durability, who USUALLY performed WORSE in the playoffs.  I wanted him on the Vikes because I felt with what the Vikings had, I thought Favre could get them into the playoffs, whereas I wasn't too sure on TJACK.  I think Favre is a crapshoot in the playoffs, and I expect him to probably bomb a playoff game, being the difference by throwing an INT or SIX to the opposition. 

Pete
 
I AGREE with you on the media treatment of Favre, and I REALLY hate it when they go overboard with Favre.  He is a fine REGULAR season QB, with GREAT durabililty, who usually tanks in the playoffs. 

I think Favre's talk of losing arm strength is just a built-in excuse put out there should his team NOT make the playoffs, or should he be the reason for THAT, or the reason they LOST a playoff game.  He is realizing his team really isn't all that great, they have a bad 2ndary that has been masked at times by his fine QB play, great WR play, great running, or the front 7 of the defense causing a turnover, or the special teams getting a TD.  

Should TJACK OR GUTS get the Vikes into the playoffs (which looks kind of likely), I'll be GLAD they didn't sign Favre because I think they'll be about the same kind of crapshoot as Favre in the playoffs, with much less investment, and if it's TJACK, you gain a lot in age. 

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ORIGINAL: Easy E

How many games would the Lions have won if they had gotten Faneca, do you suppose? Serious question.

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ORIGINAL: hrerikl

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ORIGINAL: Easy E

How many games would the Lions have won if they had gotten Faneca, do you suppose? Serious question.

I guess the corollary is how many games do you think they would have won with Favre?  Serious question.

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ORIGINAL: hrerikl

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ORIGINAL: Easy E

How many games would the Lions have won if they had gotten Faneca, do you suppose? Serious question.

I guess the corollary is how many games do you think they would have won with Favre?  Serious question.

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ORIGINAL: djskillz

Seriously?

You think they gain SIX games with just Favre alone?

Man, we just view Favre TOTALLY different and we will NEVER agree on this if that's the case.